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On July 26 2011 11:18 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 11:16 Micromnky wrote:On July 26 2011 11:04 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 26 2011 10:52 Thrax wrote:On July 26 2011 10:49 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 26 2011 10:34 Irave wrote:On July 26 2011 10:32 starcraft2rush wrote:Milkis took this up as a personal crusade to smear EG's reputation in front of the community because he got emotional about the evil American empire stealing away korean talent. Give me a damn break. Milkis should stay out of things he has admitted himself he has no clue about (global esports business dealings). EG did nothing wrong here. If you want to get butt-sore over an American team offering a better deal than a failing Korean team could offer him....then by all means state that as your case instead of masking it behind silly accusations of unethical business dealings. Otherwise suck it up and quit trolling haters.  That's a pretty bold claim to take against Milkis. This guy finds threads that have some relevance or importance to the scene and translates them. To consider this as a crusade to smear EG's reputation makes me think odd things about you. Or perhaps you just aren't very familiar with the scene at all. That discussion started getting off the rails when Milkis got way out of his depth, on the topics at hand. Alex was definitely on an "offensive" going into the discussion, but not directed at Milkis. His business, and his own personal ethics, were being drug through the mud by the anonymous SC2 crowds over effectively a minor miscommunication issue. Everyone responds not the greatest. His big screw up was bringing up the last point. It's not that he was wrong, he has a very legitimate point, but there wasn't any way for it to not come off badly, in that setting. It was an issue of forum & decorum. Truthfully, Milkis did okay, even if he really wasn't up to speed on the topics and wasn't up for matching Alex. Doesn't negate the screw up of bringing up the Journalism topic, but it is what it is. Alex will need to learn to have his Flame Shields on with community stuff. FXOBoSs has run into that problem as well. These guys just aren't used to it, lol. I'm curious to hear Alex's point of view on the journalism issue in more details later. Based on WoC, I probably agree with his general ideas on journalism, but I completely disagree that Milkis was at fault in any way. Milkis was out of his depth. That doesn't mean he was at "fault" for anything. The discussion just went to places he didn't have any ability to speak on. And, let's be clear, Milkis also flubbed a bunch of points on the KeSPA thing pretty badly (doesn't mean he did anything wrong, just that he didn't win that argument). He wasn't going much of anywhere with his thoughts on that. He's definitely not used to discussing topics like this on the fly, which is very definitely a skill set. On the journalism issue, that one is really easy. You could put information in a forum thread here, that gets highlighted, that's false and damaging to a Brand (which EG is). That's technically protected by the First Amendment (in the USA, which the main office of TL is out of, so it has that protection, along with the poster). But, it can still be slanderous or defamatory. This is a *huge* power dynamic issue that the company has little ability to deal with or respond to, before it gets out of hand. That *is* a serious issue and it *will* be a problem. It's more of a problem for Alex than the community, but talking about it with Milkis around was a bad choice of forum. There isn't any way it wouldn't come off as an attack, even if it really wasn't intended to be. This. Posting the article without giving EG a chance to respond first, is sloppy journalism. He translated an article. If EG wants to complain about sloppy journalism they should attack the playxp (?) writer.
not to mention that you don't delay breaking news to wait 1 week for a statement. that's just laziness on Eg's part.
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Korean's really don't care much about foreigner teams, and SC2 isn't even that big in Korea. When given the choice to support a Korean team or a foreign team over an issue, Koreans will support the Korean team regardless of the full story. PlayXP's article won't be criticized cos nobody in Korea really cares about EG.
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On July 26 2011 10:59 AlissyXOXO wrote:
I have no idea what EG said about Milkis during that WoC cast or w/e, but I don't understand why so many people are defending him. He did things badly and it blew out of proportion in the western community because of the way he did it and obviously EG are gonna be pretty pissed, public image is everything when getting sponsors and they apparently didn't even know what was going on with Puma or whether they were going to talk to Coach Lee to negotiate things further.
First thing for good journalism is to get both sides of the story FIRST (seems like a recurring theme) before posting something that will reflect negatively on a gaming organization to keep relations between two organizations good, as Milkis is representing Team Liquid (he's a translator here after all). But he translated the article straight away, then demanded a response from SirScoots quite aggressively and rudely (at least in my opinion) over twitter, saying "We're waiting for your side of the story". Surely he could've waited 30 minutes more, given a rough translation to the article to SirScoots/EG and asked for his side of the story before publishing.
It was unprofessional, either way and he should be a big boy. He's representing a global gaming organization now, that is the face of SC2 for the western community. Maybe it's time some of the staff picked it up a notch and became a bit more professional
lol, really? You want someone to post a translation of a published article after getting both sides of the story?
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It isn't in me to criticize EG or Puma in this case. However, regardless of your intentions EG, the way in which you approached it wasn't smart one bit. You said it was the first time you thought of it, that just talked to the player first, then the coach.
That was a horrible move again regardless of what you thought you should have done.
I look at this situation like NFL or NBA. When you want a player, you first talk to the management, NOT the player. You rarely see any bad stuff in regards to recruiting from the teams in the NBA or NFL because they have a set standard of what you do. Talking to there agent/team first. You did these steps completely ass backwards and once again, regardless of your intentions, you will be looked at poorly. You should have understood at this point Asian countries have different ways of approach in most everything. I was born in Taiwan, but raised in the States. I have always kept how the East and West did things in mind. You looked it at the general Western way, when in Asia, it's frowned upon.
It was nice to hear the apology, I understand you made a mistake. Next time, why don't you keep the Asian type mind set in mind first before you make any sort of a move like this.
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Big blunder by EG, similar to NASL's... was iNcontrol in charge of the negotiations by any chance?
User was warned for this post
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A contract isn't necessarily a written piece of paper.
-1 fan here. The late settlement offer sounds like an obvious and desperate attempt to reconquer public opinion, but at least it is a step in the right direction.
The saddest part of this story is that PuMa no longer has a good practice enviroment and his skills will likely fall.
I feel like most foreign "teams" aren't really teams, they are just an intermediate agent to negociate sponsor deals (SK being the most glaring example, but now coL and EG are going in that direction as well).
As a fan, its hard to identify with these sort of organizations. Even if EG signed with Puma the right way, I wouldn't care much for them unless it involved Puma moving out of Korea and working together with the other players (which I don't defend he should do, as it would be bad for him, but it would make sense for EG as a team).
So you give someone some money to wear a jersey in the other side of the world, why should I care? How can you compare that with the typical korean teams that work together into strategies, stand side by side in team leagues and share daily their motivation and passion? The main motivation behind a team should be a group of players improving together, not a group of strangers displaying the same ads.
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Even though I never saw anything shady about what happened at all, I'm glad EG finally posted something.
Was a fan, still am a fan.
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On July 26 2011 11:20 theDragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 10:59 AlissyXOXO wrote:
I have no idea what EG said about Milkis during that WoC cast or w/e, but I don't understand why so many people are defending him. He did things badly and it blew out of proportion in the western community because of the way he did it and obviously EG are gonna be pretty pissed, public image is everything when getting sponsors and they apparently didn't even know what was going on with Puma or whether they were going to talk to Coach Lee to negotiate things further.
First thing for good journalism is to get both sides of the story FIRST (seems like a recurring theme) before posting something that will reflect negatively on a gaming organization to keep relations between two organizations good, as Milkis is representing Team Liquid (he's a translator here after all). But he translated the article straight away, then demanded a response from SirScoots quite aggressively and rudely (at least in my opinion) over twitter, saying "We're waiting for your side of the story". Surely he could've waited 30 minutes more, given a rough translation to the article to SirScoots/EG and asked for his side of the story before publishing.
It was unprofessional, either way and he should be a big boy. He's representing a global gaming organization now, that is the face of SC2 for the western community. Maybe it's time some of the staff picked it up a notch and became a bit more professional lol, really? You want someone to post a translation of a published article after getting both sides of the story?
Sure why not? Being delayed 1 hour to hear both sides of the story isn't going to magically put you behind of the scene. What harm does it do? (Hint: The answer is none) On the other hand, publishing it like this does do harm to some people
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On July 26 2011 11:21 maganez wrote:
Big blunder by EG, similar to NASL's... was iNcontrol in charge of the negotiations by any chance?
laughed out loud, aha. oh dear, incontrol.
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
On July 26 2011 11:18 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 11:16 Micromnky wrote:On July 26 2011 11:04 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 26 2011 10:52 Thrax wrote:On July 26 2011 10:49 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 26 2011 10:34 Irave wrote:On July 26 2011 10:32 starcraft2rush wrote:Milkis took this up as a personal crusade to smear EG's reputation in front of the community because he got emotional about the evil American empire stealing away korean talent. Give me a damn break. Milkis should stay out of things he has admitted himself he has no clue about (global esports business dealings). EG did nothing wrong here. If you want to get butt-sore over an American team offering a better deal than a failing Korean team could offer him....then by all means state that as your case instead of masking it behind silly accusations of unethical business dealings. Otherwise suck it up and quit trolling haters. That's a pretty bold claim to take against Milkis. This guy finds threads that have some relevance or importance to the scene and translates them. To consider this as a crusade to smear EG's reputation makes me think odd things about you. Or perhaps you just aren't very familiar with the scene at all. That discussion started getting off the rails when Milkis got way out of his depth, on the topics at hand. Alex was definitely on an "offensive" going into the discussion, but not directed at Milkis. His business, and his own personal ethics, were being drug through the mud by the anonymous SC2 crowds over effectively a minor miscommunication issue. Everyone responds not the greatest. His big screw up was bringing up the last point. It's not that he was wrong, he has a very legitimate point, but there wasn't any way for it to not come off badly, in that setting. It was an issue of forum & decorum. Truthfully, Milkis did okay, even if he really wasn't up to speed on the topics and wasn't up for matching Alex. Doesn't negate the screw up of bringing up the Journalism topic, but it is what it is. Alex will need to learn to have his Flame Shields on with community stuff. FXOBoSs has run into that problem as well. These guys just aren't used to it, lol. I'm curious to hear Alex's point of view on the journalism issue in more details later. Based on WoC, I probably agree with his general ideas on journalism, but I completely disagree that Milkis was at fault in any way. Milkis was out of his depth. That doesn't mean he was at "fault" for anything. The discussion just went to places he didn't have any ability to speak on. And, let's be clear, Milkis also flubbed a bunch of points on the KeSPA thing pretty badly (doesn't mean he did anything wrong, just that he didn't win that argument). He wasn't going much of anywhere with his thoughts on that. He's definitely not used to discussing topics like this on the fly, which is very definitely a skill set. On the journalism issue, that one is really easy. You could put information in a forum thread here, that gets highlighted, that's false and damaging to a Brand (which EG is). That's technically protected by the First Amendment (in the USA, which the main office of TL is out of, so it has that protection, along with the poster). But, it can still be slanderous or defamatory. This is a *huge* power dynamic issue that the company has little ability to deal with or respond to, before it gets out of hand. That *is* a serious issue and it *will* be a problem. It's more of a problem for Alex than the community, but talking about it with Milkis around was a bad choice of forum. There isn't any way it wouldn't come off as an attack, even if it really wasn't intended to be. This. Posting the article without giving EG a chance to respond first, is sloppy journalism. He translated an article. If EG wants to complain about sloppy journalism they should attack the playxp (?) writer.
Cept for the bit where he got a quote from the TSL coach, and gave no EG perspective. Not entirely a bad thing, but still only an article from 1 perspective. Now that EG has written up their (admittedly far too delayed) official statement, people are shitting on it, and some are accusing them of outright lies.
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On July 26 2011 11:18 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 11:16 Micromnky wrote:On July 26 2011 11:04 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 26 2011 10:52 Thrax wrote:On July 26 2011 10:49 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 26 2011 10:34 Irave wrote:On July 26 2011 10:32 starcraft2rush wrote:Milkis took this up as a personal crusade to smear EG's reputation in front of the community because he got emotional about the evil American empire stealing away korean talent. Give me a damn break. Milkis should stay out of things he has admitted himself he has no clue about (global esports business dealings). EG did nothing wrong here. If you want to get butt-sore over an American team offering a better deal than a failing Korean team could offer him....then by all means state that as your case instead of masking it behind silly accusations of unethical business dealings. Otherwise suck it up and quit trolling haters. That's a pretty bold claim to take against Milkis. This guy finds threads that have some relevance or importance to the scene and translates them. To consider this as a crusade to smear EG's reputation makes me think odd things about you. Or perhaps you just aren't very familiar with the scene at all. That discussion started getting off the rails when Milkis got way out of his depth, on the topics at hand. Alex was definitely on an "offensive" going into the discussion, but not directed at Milkis. His business, and his own personal ethics, were being drug through the mud by the anonymous SC2 crowds over effectively a minor miscommunication issue. Everyone responds not the greatest. His big screw up was bringing up the last point. It's not that he was wrong, he has a very legitimate point, but there wasn't any way for it to not come off badly, in that setting. It was an issue of forum & decorum. Truthfully, Milkis did okay, even if he really wasn't up to speed on the topics and wasn't up for matching Alex. Doesn't negate the screw up of bringing up the Journalism topic, but it is what it is. Alex will need to learn to have his Flame Shields on with community stuff. FXOBoSs has run into that problem as well. These guys just aren't used to it, lol. I'm curious to hear Alex's point of view on the journalism issue in more details later. Based on WoC, I probably agree with his general ideas on journalism, but I completely disagree that Milkis was at fault in any way. Milkis was out of his depth. That doesn't mean he was at "fault" for anything. The discussion just went to places he didn't have any ability to speak on. And, let's be clear, Milkis also flubbed a bunch of points on the KeSPA thing pretty badly (doesn't mean he did anything wrong, just that he didn't win that argument). He wasn't going much of anywhere with his thoughts on that. He's definitely not used to discussing topics like this on the fly, which is very definitely a skill set. On the journalism issue, that one is really easy. You could put information in a forum thread here, that gets highlighted, that's false and damaging to a Brand (which EG is). That's technically protected by the First Amendment (in the USA, which the main office of TL is out of, so it has that protection, along with the poster). But, it can still be slanderous or defamatory. This is a *huge* power dynamic issue that the company has little ability to deal with or respond to, before it gets out of hand. That *is* a serious issue and it *will* be a problem. It's more of a problem for Alex than the community, but talking about it with Milkis around was a bad choice of forum. There isn't any way it wouldn't come off as an attack, even if it really wasn't intended to be. This. Posting the article without giving EG a chance to respond first, is sloppy journalism. He translated an article. If EG wants to complain about sloppy journalism they should attack the playxp (?) writer.
When TeamLiquid features the post as official news on the front page, I think TL somewhat needs to take responsibility for the post. That means making sure it's fair and accurate. If EG feels the need to attack someone, they should go after TL's policy on news, not Milkis.
Milkis did tweet at SirScoots to get a comment, whether that's enough or not is debatable, but I think simply adding to the post "We attempted to contact EG but have not yet received a response" really can go a long way.
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Still a fan of EG ^^
Well-handled, and thanks for publishing this for those who figured it was a PR nightmare 
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The only problem lies on EG for entrusting PuMa to talk through Lee regarding leaving TSL for EG. Lee is upset regarding this news and there is not much he can do but bid farewell to PuMa because in the interview, PuMa has been acting negatively in the team house even after he wins the tournament. Why keep an unsatisfied player for your organization when you deeply know that he wants to leave?
It will be better if EG actually contacts Lee regarding the interest before anything else. Even in football, when a club is contacting a player first before the club, they will be fined in a huge amount. Lee wants money to be able to support his team financially. In my opinion, EG should have paid certain amount of compensation (even though PuMa isn't contracted to TSL). By doing this, it will be a win-win situation. EG regains some reputation and image back and TSL gets some compensation for temporary finance support.
Be that as it may, EG is the real fault in the whole situation. Not professional and poorly managed organization in this player swap scenario. Claiming that PuMa isn't contracted for the whole scenario will not win you any sort of fans, in my opinion. It will just generate more hatred for being such a selfish business-minded organization.
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On July 26 2011 11:23 MCDayC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 11:18 Zocat wrote:On July 26 2011 11:16 Micromnky wrote:On July 26 2011 11:04 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 26 2011 10:52 Thrax wrote:On July 26 2011 10:49 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 26 2011 10:34 Irave wrote:On July 26 2011 10:32 starcraft2rush wrote:Milkis took this up as a personal crusade to smear EG's reputation in front of the community because he got emotional about the evil American empire stealing away korean talent. Give me a damn break. Milkis should stay out of things he has admitted himself he has no clue about (global esports business dealings). EG did nothing wrong here. If you want to get butt-sore over an American team offering a better deal than a failing Korean team could offer him....then by all means state that as your case instead of masking it behind silly accusations of unethical business dealings. Otherwise suck it up and quit trolling haters. That's a pretty bold claim to take against Milkis. This guy finds threads that have some relevance or importance to the scene and translates them. To consider this as a crusade to smear EG's reputation makes me think odd things about you. Or perhaps you just aren't very familiar with the scene at all. That discussion started getting off the rails when Milkis got way out of his depth, on the topics at hand. Alex was definitely on an "offensive" going into the discussion, but not directed at Milkis. His business, and his own personal ethics, were being drug through the mud by the anonymous SC2 crowds over effectively a minor miscommunication issue. Everyone responds not the greatest. His big screw up was bringing up the last point. It's not that he was wrong, he has a very legitimate point, but there wasn't any way for it to not come off badly, in that setting. It was an issue of forum & decorum. Truthfully, Milkis did okay, even if he really wasn't up to speed on the topics and wasn't up for matching Alex. Doesn't negate the screw up of bringing up the Journalism topic, but it is what it is. Alex will need to learn to have his Flame Shields on with community stuff. FXOBoSs has run into that problem as well. These guys just aren't used to it, lol. I'm curious to hear Alex's point of view on the journalism issue in more details later. Based on WoC, I probably agree with his general ideas on journalism, but I completely disagree that Milkis was at fault in any way. Milkis was out of his depth. That doesn't mean he was at "fault" for anything. The discussion just went to places he didn't have any ability to speak on. And, let's be clear, Milkis also flubbed a bunch of points on the KeSPA thing pretty badly (doesn't mean he did anything wrong, just that he didn't win that argument). He wasn't going much of anywhere with his thoughts on that. He's definitely not used to discussing topics like this on the fly, which is very definitely a skill set. On the journalism issue, that one is really easy. You could put information in a forum thread here, that gets highlighted, that's false and damaging to a Brand (which EG is). That's technically protected by the First Amendment (in the USA, which the main office of TL is out of, so it has that protection, along with the poster). But, it can still be slanderous or defamatory. This is a *huge* power dynamic issue that the company has little ability to deal with or respond to, before it gets out of hand. That *is* a serious issue and it *will* be a problem. It's more of a problem for Alex than the community, but talking about it with Milkis around was a bad choice of forum. There isn't any way it wouldn't come off as an attack, even if it really wasn't intended to be. This. Posting the article without giving EG a chance to respond first, is sloppy journalism. He translated an article. If EG wants to complain about sloppy journalism they should attack the playxp (?) writer. Cept for the bit where he got a quote from the TSL coach, and gave no EG perspective. Not entirely a bad thing, but still only an article from 1 perspective. Now that EG has written up their (admittedly far too delayed) official statement, people are shitting on it, and some are accusing them of outright lies.
He asked scoots on twitter for a response, yet he was ignored.
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No just be quiet Alex. I know what your doing, using your smart talk to seem all innocent and nice. But I know the truth, you sneakily took Puma, and although it was legal, it was dirty. Now the only reason your begging for apology with this OP is because of the fan's negaive reaction.
GTFO u may have fooled most of the others and not me
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On July 26 2011 11:18 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 11:16 Micromnky wrote:On July 26 2011 11:04 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 26 2011 10:52 Thrax wrote:On July 26 2011 10:49 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 26 2011 10:34 Irave wrote:On July 26 2011 10:32 starcraft2rush wrote:Milkis took this up as a personal crusade to smear EG's reputation in front of the community because he got emotional about the evil American empire stealing away korean talent. Give me a damn break. Milkis should stay out of things he has admitted himself he has no clue about (global esports business dealings). EG did nothing wrong here. If you want to get butt-sore over an American team offering a better deal than a failing Korean team could offer him....then by all means state that as your case instead of masking it behind silly accusations of unethical business dealings. Otherwise suck it up and quit trolling haters. That's a pretty bold claim to take against Milkis. This guy finds threads that have some relevance or importance to the scene and translates them. To consider this as a crusade to smear EG's reputation makes me think odd things about you. Or perhaps you just aren't very familiar with the scene at all. That discussion started getting off the rails when Milkis got way out of his depth, on the topics at hand. Alex was definitely on an "offensive" going into the discussion, but not directed at Milkis. His business, and his own personal ethics, were being drug through the mud by the anonymous SC2 crowds over effectively a minor miscommunication issue. Everyone responds not the greatest. His big screw up was bringing up the last point. It's not that he was wrong, he has a very legitimate point, but there wasn't any way for it to not come off badly, in that setting. It was an issue of forum & decorum. Truthfully, Milkis did okay, even if he really wasn't up to speed on the topics and wasn't up for matching Alex. Doesn't negate the screw up of bringing up the Journalism topic, but it is what it is. Alex will need to learn to have his Flame Shields on with community stuff. FXOBoSs has run into that problem as well. These guys just aren't used to it, lol. I'm curious to hear Alex's point of view on the journalism issue in more details later. Based on WoC, I probably agree with his general ideas on journalism, but I completely disagree that Milkis was at fault in any way. Milkis was out of his depth. That doesn't mean he was at "fault" for anything. The discussion just went to places he didn't have any ability to speak on. And, let's be clear, Milkis also flubbed a bunch of points on the KeSPA thing pretty badly (doesn't mean he did anything wrong, just that he didn't win that argument). He wasn't going much of anywhere with his thoughts on that. He's definitely not used to discussing topics like this on the fly, which is very definitely a skill set. On the journalism issue, that one is really easy. You could put information in a forum thread here, that gets highlighted, that's false and damaging to a Brand (which EG is). That's technically protected by the First Amendment (in the USA, which the main office of TL is out of, so it has that protection, along with the poster). But, it can still be slanderous or defamatory. This is a *huge* power dynamic issue that the company has little ability to deal with or respond to, before it gets out of hand. That *is* a serious issue and it *will* be a problem. It's more of a problem for Alex than the community, but talking about it with Milkis around was a bad choice of forum. There isn't any way it wouldn't come off as an attack, even if it really wasn't intended to be. This. Posting the article without giving EG a chance to respond first, is sloppy journalism. He translated an article. If EG wants to complain about sloppy journalism they should attack the playxp (?) writer.
Apparently you cant read past the second sentence?
"This. Posting the article without giving EG a chance to respond first, is sloppy journalism. Did he do it maliciously, I really really doubt it, it was probally just a mistake."
I wasn't accusing him of slander or anything of the sort. I was just simply saying he made a mistake not waiting for a response from EG.
Yes, he is a translator. And he translated. But,...internet forums are a unique place, especially one like TL. In a community like this, where its not hard to speak to higher ups in many of the teams/businesses/etc, its not hard to do, and its just a professional courtesy.
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On July 26 2011 11:12 starcraft2rush wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 11:07 Shiori wrote:On July 26 2011 11:04 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 26 2011 10:52 Thrax wrote:On July 26 2011 10:49 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 26 2011 10:34 Irave wrote:On July 26 2011 10:32 starcraft2rush wrote:Milkis took this up as a personal crusade to smear EG's reputation in front of the community because he got emotional about the evil American empire stealing away korean talent. Give me a damn break. Milkis should stay out of things he has admitted himself he has no clue about (global esports business dealings). EG did nothing wrong here. If you want to get butt-sore over an American team offering a better deal than a failing Korean team could offer him....then by all means state that as your case instead of masking it behind silly accusations of unethical business dealings. Otherwise suck it up and quit trolling haters. That's a pretty bold claim to take against Milkis. This guy finds threads that have some relevance or importance to the scene and translates them. To consider this as a crusade to smear EG's reputation makes me think odd things about you. Or perhaps you just aren't very familiar with the scene at all. That discussion started getting off the rails when Milkis got way out of his depth, on the topics at hand. Alex was definitely on an "offensive" going into the discussion, but not directed at Milkis. His business, and his own personal ethics, were being drug through the mud by the anonymous SC2 crowds over effectively a minor miscommunication issue. Everyone responds not the greatest. His big screw up was bringing up the last point. It's not that he was wrong, he has a very legitimate point, but there wasn't any way for it to not come off badly, in that setting. It was an issue of forum & decorum. Truthfully, Milkis did okay, even if he really wasn't up to speed on the topics and wasn't up for matching Alex. Doesn't negate the screw up of bringing up the Journalism topic, but it is what it is. Alex will need to learn to have his Flame Shields on with community stuff. FXOBoSs has run into that problem as well. These guys just aren't used to it, lol. I'm curious to hear Alex's point of view on the journalism issue in more details later. Based on WoC, I probably agree with his general ideas on journalism, but I completely disagree that Milkis was at fault in any way. Milkis was out of his depth. That doesn't mean he was at "fault" for anything. The discussion just went to places he didn't have any ability to speak on. And, let's be clear, Milkis also flubbed a bunch of points on the KeSPA thing pretty badly (doesn't mean he did anything wrong, just that he didn't win that argument). He wasn't going much of anywhere with his thoughts on that. He's definitely not used to discussing topics like this on the fly, which is very definitely a skill set. On the journalism issue, that one is really easy. You could put information in a forum thread here, that gets highlighted, that's false and damaging to a Brand (which EG is). That's technically protected by the First Amendment (in the USA, which the main office of TL is out of, so it has that protection, along with the poster). But, it can still be slanderous or defamatory. This is a *huge* power dynamic issue that the company has little ability to deal with or respond to, before it gets out of hand. That *is* a serious issue and it *will* be a problem. It's more of a problem for Alex than the community, but talking about it with Milkis around was a bad choice of forum. There isn't any way it wouldn't come off as an attack, even if it really wasn't intended to be. 1) Alex accused him of defaming 2) He did not defame 3) ergo Alex is a pompous idiot lol....you finished?
lol you must be an EG fanboy. you must be really dense. this whole situation is EG's fault. i can't believe that you are trying to defend EG and alex. Puma was trained by Coach Lee for almost a year. THAT is why he is at the level he is now. EG should NOT have tried to bribe Puma(in a way) PRIOR to contacting COACH LEE BEFOREHAND because puma is on a team already and was raised by another coach.Tell me this. is it correct adopt a child from an orphanage just because the child isn't officially documented as living in the orphanage? No, of course you would contact the orphanage first. You can't blame Milkis either, all he did was translate for the community and Alex was extremely rude to him. Your earlier comment said that Milkis was trying to go on a personal crusade to hurt EG, i think its you who is going on a personal crusade to flame and hurt the community and milkis.
I was actually pretty fond of EG before this event. and now i refuse to think of EG of anything other than a backstabbing shady organization. Good job alex.
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There is zero new information in this "news" release (except that Puma and EG were in discussions for "weeks").
EG was also very confused, as we were waiting for PuMa to speak with Mr. Lee before proceeding with the signing, and we hadn't even heard back from PuMa when the news broke. Neither EG nor PuMa wanted to proceed with the signing, unless it could be done on good terms with TSL.
Obviously not. You have Puma signed, and Lee hasn't accepted your apolology? You "apologise" at the moment of signing, and still go on straight after to call his actions not appropriate. You continue to put the blame on Lee about the public controversy implying that he jumped the gun.
You go on what should have and what would have happened, that you would have organised a meeting with Lee? And then you blame Lee for being transparent? Lee gets told out of no where that EG has approached Puma and Puma has agreed after "weeks" of negotiation that he would join EG. Puma's mind was clearly made by that point. It's a joke to "include" Lee at that point.
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On July 26 2011 11:23 Thrax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 11:18 Zocat wrote:On July 26 2011 11:16 Micromnky wrote:On July 26 2011 11:04 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 26 2011 10:52 Thrax wrote:On July 26 2011 10:49 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 26 2011 10:34 Irave wrote:On July 26 2011 10:32 starcraft2rush wrote:Milkis took this up as a personal crusade to smear EG's reputation in front of the community because he got emotional about the evil American empire stealing away korean talent. Give me a damn break. Milkis should stay out of things he has admitted himself he has no clue about (global esports business dealings). EG did nothing wrong here. If you want to get butt-sore over an American team offering a better deal than a failing Korean team could offer him....then by all means state that as your case instead of masking it behind silly accusations of unethical business dealings. Otherwise suck it up and quit trolling haters. That's a pretty bold claim to take against Milkis. This guy finds threads that have some relevance or importance to the scene and translates them. To consider this as a crusade to smear EG's reputation makes me think odd things about you. Or perhaps you just aren't very familiar with the scene at all. That discussion started getting off the rails when Milkis got way out of his depth, on the topics at hand. Alex was definitely on an "offensive" going into the discussion, but not directed at Milkis. His business, and his own personal ethics, were being drug through the mud by the anonymous SC2 crowds over effectively a minor miscommunication issue. Everyone responds not the greatest. His big screw up was bringing up the last point. It's not that he was wrong, he has a very legitimate point, but there wasn't any way for it to not come off badly, in that setting. It was an issue of forum & decorum. Truthfully, Milkis did okay, even if he really wasn't up to speed on the topics and wasn't up for matching Alex. Doesn't negate the screw up of bringing up the Journalism topic, but it is what it is. Alex will need to learn to have his Flame Shields on with community stuff. FXOBoSs has run into that problem as well. These guys just aren't used to it, lol. I'm curious to hear Alex's point of view on the journalism issue in more details later. Based on WoC, I probably agree with his general ideas on journalism, but I completely disagree that Milkis was at fault in any way. Milkis was out of his depth. That doesn't mean he was at "fault" for anything. The discussion just went to places he didn't have any ability to speak on. And, let's be clear, Milkis also flubbed a bunch of points on the KeSPA thing pretty badly (doesn't mean he did anything wrong, just that he didn't win that argument). He wasn't going much of anywhere with his thoughts on that. He's definitely not used to discussing topics like this on the fly, which is very definitely a skill set. On the journalism issue, that one is really easy. You could put information in a forum thread here, that gets highlighted, that's false and damaging to a Brand (which EG is). That's technically protected by the First Amendment (in the USA, which the main office of TL is out of, so it has that protection, along with the poster). But, it can still be slanderous or defamatory. This is a *huge* power dynamic issue that the company has little ability to deal with or respond to, before it gets out of hand. That *is* a serious issue and it *will* be a problem. It's more of a problem for Alex than the community, but talking about it with Milkis around was a bad choice of forum. There isn't any way it wouldn't come off as an attack, even if it really wasn't intended to be. This. Posting the article without giving EG a chance to respond first, is sloppy journalism. He translated an article. If EG wants to complain about sloppy journalism they should attack the playxp (?) writer. When TeamLiquid features the post as official news on the front page, I think TL somewhat needs to take responsibility for the post. That means making sure it's fair and accurate. If EG feels the need to attack someone, they should go after TL's policy on news, not Milkis.
But it was fair and accurate.
It was spotlighted as a translation, it was (I believe) initially spotlighted as Lee's statement too.
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On July 26 2011 11:24 Elefanto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 11:23 MCDayC wrote:On July 26 2011 11:18 Zocat wrote:On July 26 2011 11:16 Micromnky wrote:On July 26 2011 11:04 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 26 2011 10:52 Thrax wrote:On July 26 2011 10:49 Taf the Ghost wrote:On July 26 2011 10:34 Irave wrote:On July 26 2011 10:32 starcraft2rush wrote:Milkis took this up as a personal crusade to smear EG's reputation in front of the community because he got emotional about the evil American empire stealing away korean talent. Give me a damn break. Milkis should stay out of things he has admitted himself he has no clue about (global esports business dealings). EG did nothing wrong here. If you want to get butt-sore over an American team offering a better deal than a failing Korean team could offer him....then by all means state that as your case instead of masking it behind silly accusations of unethical business dealings. Otherwise suck it up and quit trolling haters. That's a pretty bold claim to take against Milkis. This guy finds threads that have some relevance or importance to the scene and translates them. To consider this as a crusade to smear EG's reputation makes me think odd things about you. Or perhaps you just aren't very familiar with the scene at all. That discussion started getting off the rails when Milkis got way out of his depth, on the topics at hand. Alex was definitely on an "offensive" going into the discussion, but not directed at Milkis. His business, and his own personal ethics, were being drug through the mud by the anonymous SC2 crowds over effectively a minor miscommunication issue. Everyone responds not the greatest. His big screw up was bringing up the last point. It's not that he was wrong, he has a very legitimate point, but there wasn't any way for it to not come off badly, in that setting. It was an issue of forum & decorum. Truthfully, Milkis did okay, even if he really wasn't up to speed on the topics and wasn't up for matching Alex. Doesn't negate the screw up of bringing up the Journalism topic, but it is what it is. Alex will need to learn to have his Flame Shields on with community stuff. FXOBoSs has run into that problem as well. These guys just aren't used to it, lol. I'm curious to hear Alex's point of view on the journalism issue in more details later. Based on WoC, I probably agree with his general ideas on journalism, but I completely disagree that Milkis was at fault in any way. Milkis was out of his depth. That doesn't mean he was at "fault" for anything. The discussion just went to places he didn't have any ability to speak on. And, let's be clear, Milkis also flubbed a bunch of points on the KeSPA thing pretty badly (doesn't mean he did anything wrong, just that he didn't win that argument). He wasn't going much of anywhere with his thoughts on that. He's definitely not used to discussing topics like this on the fly, which is very definitely a skill set. On the journalism issue, that one is really easy. You could put information in a forum thread here, that gets highlighted, that's false and damaging to a Brand (which EG is). That's technically protected by the First Amendment (in the USA, which the main office of TL is out of, so it has that protection, along with the poster). But, it can still be slanderous or defamatory. This is a *huge* power dynamic issue that the company has little ability to deal with or respond to, before it gets out of hand. That *is* a serious issue and it *will* be a problem. It's more of a problem for Alex than the community, but talking about it with Milkis around was a bad choice of forum. There isn't any way it wouldn't come off as an attack, even if it really wasn't intended to be. This. Posting the article without giving EG a chance to respond first, is sloppy journalism. He translated an article. If EG wants to complain about sloppy journalism they should attack the playxp (?) writer. Cept for the bit where he got a quote from the TSL coach, and gave no EG perspective. Not entirely a bad thing, but still only an article from 1 perspective. Now that EG has written up their (admittedly far too delayed) official statement, people are shitting on it, and some are accusing them of outright lies. He asked scoots on twitter for a response, yet he was ignored.
You don't rush statements when something that big was dropped on your organization. The initial responses and views will be against EG purely because of the way the first article was written and toned against EG. Whoever gets the first word will usually get the majority of the playerbase behind them (just how mob mentality works).
They obviously needed to do a bit more damage control earlier than 1 week after the incident, but it's still a bit dumb to even need to do it when it could've been avoided entirely.
One word saying EG's views and side of the story not being there, and saying that it probably isn't the full picture would've cleared things up immediately. Most people don't have the capacity to question whether a news article, translated or not is the full thing or not
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EPT
