• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 23:36
CET 05:36
KST 13:36
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners10Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win10
StarCraft 2
General
Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon! RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win
Tourneys
Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Where's CardinalAllin/Jukado the mapmaker?
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
PvZ map balance Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Learning my new SC2 hotkey…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1452 users

Season 3 Ladder Map Changes (Official) - Page 14

Forum Index > SC2 General
1106 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 12 13 14 15 16 56 Next
Ribbon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5278 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-25 22:44:51
July 25 2011 22:43 GMT
#261
On July 26 2011 06:36 Zerker wrote:
Tal’darim Altar, has a heavy (60%+) bias toward zerg at the highest levels of play. ~ Which means they didnt just pull stats straight from GM. They pulled stats subjectively. It's easy to pull stats on 1 map in a certain context like they did. What exactly does "highest level" mean, Tournaments? top 500? top 10? top 200? They didn't give a number at all just random % that don't mean a lot towards balance.

u guys are reading it wrong. It's not 60% on metal.

Also its stupid to remove metal for close spawn but not remove shattered temple which has the same exact problem.


They had to replace 4 maps, and 3 of the maps were awful. That leaves you the choice of metal OR shattered, and Metal's really really old. I imagine Shattered Temple will not be around for Season 4.
flowSthead
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1065 Posts
July 25 2011 22:44 GMT
#262
I just don't understand why Blizzard assumes that their maps will be better. Why not source this stuff to the community? I mean they say that they want these things to be fun for the casuals and the more serious gamers, but I really doubt more balanced and interesting maps from experienced community map makers will be less fun for the casuals.

What am I missing here?
"You can be creative but I will crush it under the iron fist of my conservative play." - Liquid`Tyler █ MVP ■ MC ■ Boxer ■ Grubby █
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
July 25 2011 22:44 GMT
#263
On July 26 2011 07:42 Bluerain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2011 07:37 OPL3SA2 wrote:
I think it's borderline hilarious that zerg had 60% winrate at the highest level of competition, and zergs complained the most about this map.


i think its hilarious that ppl take the words of blizzard with blind faith. think about it yourself what makes a map imbalanced and what makes it imbalanced for zerg. then think whats worse, meta or these new maps.


are you suggesting that they are lying about the statistics?
MilesTeg
Profile Joined September 2010
France1271 Posts
July 25 2011 22:44 GMT
#264
On July 26 2011 07:37 OPL3SA2 wrote:
I think it's borderline hilarious that zerg had 60% winrate at the highest level of competition, and zergs complained the most about this map.


I honestly think that as it is in the ladder it's not that good for zerg. Close position is obviously really bad, and I don't think close air favours zerg that much, with no alternative attack path unless you're willing to take ages to go around the map to attack. Cross position is the only thing that's really good.

It's one of these weird stats for me, like Crossfire statistically favouring zerg although it looks so bad for them in theory.
DiaBoLuS
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany1638 Posts
July 25 2011 22:44 GMT
#265
On July 26 2011 07:41 iiGreetings wrote:
They took out metal and keeping backwater -.- Awful pick.

They need to add in bel'shir beach,crevasse,terminus,dual sight. I would be so loyal to Bliz if they did and maybe testbug


bel'shir = Z autowin-map. crevasse, terminus is good, dno about duel sight. i like testbug as well.

2 autovetos on the old map, from the previews of the new ones, i gotta say i want 5 vetos.
European Ranking: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=182293
OPL3SA2
Profile Joined April 2011
United States378 Posts
July 25 2011 22:45 GMT
#266
On July 26 2011 07:42 nforce wrote:
Calm down, guys, I'm sure Blizzard know what they are doing and talking about when map balance is the subject.

+ Show Spoiler +
http://i.imgur.com/e35Pc.jpg


Oh, wait...


You should really have blacked out the part where you're floating 1500 mineral at 13:00 into the game it ruins your argument
Playoffs? You're talking about playoffs?
Sega92
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States467 Posts
July 25 2011 22:45 GMT
#267
have to say, just played searing crater. that map is going to be amazing...easy third and super safe nat
sLBraemar
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada285 Posts
July 25 2011 22:46 GMT
#268
Metalopolis, OMG why take that away, LOL.
Don't wait for an opportunity to come to you, create your own.
Dalguno
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2446 Posts
July 25 2011 22:46 GMT
#269
Can we stop personal attacks and discuss empirically and without insane bias why these maps are good/not good or why we like/don't like the updates? Going at someone's throat, or at Blizzard's, isn't accomplishing anything.
"I'm gonna keep making drones cause I'm a baller, and ballers make drones." -Snute
nforce
Profile Joined March 2010
Bulgaria116 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-25 22:47:37
July 25 2011 22:46 GMT
#270
On July 26 2011 07:45 OPL3SA2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2011 07:42 nforce wrote:
Calm down, guys, I'm sure Blizzard know what they are doing and talking about when map balance is the subject.

+ Show Spoiler +
http://i.imgur.com/e35Pc.jpg


Oh, wait...


You should really have blacked out the part where you're floating 1500 mineral at 13:00 into the game it ruins your argument

It's not my game (no PTR in EU), even if it was - argument still stands. They should fire their mappers and outsource the process to the community.
Not that it matters but I won't be laddering from now on, not unless they give me at least 3 more veto votes.
Brayzon
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany29 Posts
July 25 2011 22:46 GMT
#271
lol they are adding 4 crappy maps, even worse for zerg if close spawns and then remove meta with such a shitty argumentation. as a zerg, i feel like they feed the noobs. oh yeah, we are removing metalopolis, but adding 4 maps, that u can cheese ur way to masters. if they would make the mappool with maps of users, it would have gone alot better e.g.

crossfire
xnc
meta
bel'shir
crevasse
terminus
tal'darim
xnf
dual sight
neo enigma
testbug
shattered
iccup nemesis
iccup starlight breaker
shakuras plateau

you see there is even too much GREAT maps to create a single map pool with it, you could easily build up to 5 different, balenced map pools. but instead, blizzard is giving us 4 new shitty maps, while there is still backwater gulch remaining. also i dont get it, why they dont actually add user maps. there are some great iccup/gsl maps. blizzard is doing the worst they coud have done. again. losing to a 6pool allin cause u spawned close on slagpits or losing to 5rax due to the maps that enables such effects sucks, definetely. now you can expect them alot more often (on 4 maps).
once again, fuck you blizzard im out, and dont know how long i will continue to play the ladder in the game i most loved. ther IS a reason why NOONE uses blizzards maps. i wouldve posted this in the bnet forums, but due to the fact that ive got an eu account, i cant post there. as a european i feel like i just can swallow the shit, that the mightier persons produce, like in human centipede (lol). i havent had the abillity to play on a SINGLE pta, cause there was only one, which i missed cause im european. yeah great justice there.

thats it, flame me blame me but PLEASE notice my humble and most honest oppinion
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-25 22:47:43
July 25 2011 22:46 GMT
#272
On July 26 2011 07:44 DiaBoLuS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2011 07:41 iiGreetings wrote:
They took out metal and keeping backwater -.- Awful pick.

They need to add in bel'shir beach,crevasse,terminus,dual sight. I would be so loyal to Bliz if they did and maybe testbug


bel'shir = Z autowin-map. crevasse, terminus is good, dno about duel sight. i like testbug as well.

2 autovetos on the old map, from the previews of the new ones, i gotta say i want 5 vetos.


bel'shir doesn't seem z auto win map. going by TL database its 11-9 favoring zerg zvt, 9-8 favoring zerg in zvp, 8-8 pvt. I know thats not alot of stats, but if its a z autowin map it should be 20-0 zvt, 17-0 zvp.

do note I am not saying its not zerg favored, but its not anywhere near as bad as you seem to think it is.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Termit
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden3466 Posts
July 25 2011 22:47 GMT
#273
I like how so many people are pulling the "it was an old map keep it fresh and new" when the game isn't even near a finished product or an old game. Maybe Blizzard should focus on getting better maps before they remove the good ones just because it has been around for a long time.

;_;
( ̄。 ̄)~zzz ◕ ◡ ◕
DeepBlu2
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
United States975 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-25 22:48:03
July 25 2011 22:47 GMT
#274
On July 26 2011 07:43 OPL3SA2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2011 07:33 DeepBlu2 wrote:
Their reasoning wasn't close positions.. Their reasoning was it being a Zerg-favored map.... I have serious doubts about Blizzard. I played the test maps on PTR and the only thing I'm glad about is that I'll be able to veto most of them. Also, Shattered Temple Rush distance Close positions is much faster than Close positions metal.


Is this you saying the same wrong thing twice



HAHAHAHAA.. You are calling me an idiot yet you have short term memory loss and think I posted it twice... I like how you find it hilarious that Metal has a 60% zerg win rate against Terran yet Xel'Naga is 60% TvZ...Yet Blizzard does nothing. It's irritating how you are oblivious to why Blizzard removed it and why they won't remove any other map... Zerker has his points as well as me yet all you have are you spamming this thread with useless posts insulting everyone in this thread because of your own bias.
u gotta sk8
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
July 25 2011 22:47 GMT
#275
Good riddens to Metalopolis. Unbelievable context, in the map pool for too long. One thing's for sure, it was no Heartbreak Ridge or Outsider.

Blizzard still hasn't learned that one-word map names are cooler than two word ones.
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
July 25 2011 22:47 GMT
#276
On July 26 2011 07:42 nforce wrote:
Calm down, guys, I'm sure Blizzard know what they are doing and talking about when map balance is the subject.

+ Show Spoiler +
http://i.imgur.com/e35Pc.jpg


Oh, wait...

Are you saying that ledges are imbalanced? Also, how the hell did you let him get over there, it looks like he had to go ALL the way around in those positions
SiguR
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada2039 Posts
July 25 2011 22:48 GMT
#277
Shakuras plateau needs to be gone.
XiaN
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Germany162 Posts
July 25 2011 22:48 GMT
#278
On July 26 2011 07:35 norterrible wrote:
Why are they removing 4 2v2 and 3v3 maps but only adding 2??


Would you rather have 1000 imbalanced 2v2/3v3 maps than 5 balanced ones? I'm pretty sure blizzard does that do have

a) a smaller pool of maps to base their team balance changes on ( choosing the most balanced maps for the next ladder )
b) some of the maps where highly imbalanced towards certain race combo's. And i totally agree with them in putting a lower number of balanced maps on the ratio rather then keeping the good ol's. Maybe they didn't found any suitable maps for team games before this ladder reset.

I don't wanna sound stupid about it, but maybe ... there where simply no balanced team maps they or the GSL came up with that they could include.
< (。◕‿‿◕。) > | Former technical admin of ROOT-Gaming (root-gaming.com)
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
July 25 2011 22:48 GMT
#279
On July 26 2011 07:47 DeepBlu2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2011 07:43 OPL3SA2 wrote:
On July 26 2011 07:33 DeepBlu2 wrote:
Their reasoning wasn't close positions.. Their reasoning was it being a Zerg-favored map.... I have serious doubts about Blizzard. I played the test maps on PTR and the only thing I'm glad about is that I'll be able to veto most of them. Also, Shattered Temple Rush distance Close positions is much faster than Close positions metal.


Is this you saying the same wrong thing twice



HAHAHAHAA.. You are calling me an idiot yet you have short term memory loss and think I posted it twice... I like how you find it hilarious that Metal has a 60% zerg win rate against Terran yet Xel'Naga is 60% TvZ...Yet Blizzard does nothing. It's irritating how you are oblivious to why Blizzard removed it and why they won't remove any other map... Zerker has his points as well as me yet all you have are you spamming this thread with useless posts.


metal is a 53.7% win rate for zerg not 60, not anywhere near as high as xelnaga.
When I think of something else, something will go here
NKexquisite
Profile Joined January 2009
United States911 Posts
July 25 2011 22:48 GMT
#280
Glad Metalopolis was removed - Ready for something new, but I will for sure be vetoing BWG

Are people just afraid to try new maps?
Whattttt Upppppppp Im Nesteaaaaaa!!
Prev 1 12 13 14 15 16 56 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
23:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #17
ReBellioN vs HiGhDrA
Shameless vs Demi
LetaleX vs Mute
Percival vs TBD
Liquipedia
BSL 21
20:00
ProLeague - RO32 Group B
spx vs rasowy
HBO vs KameZerg
Cross vs Razz
dxtr13 vs ZZZero
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 169
ProTech127
Ketroc 48
Nina 4
StarCraft: Brood War
Snow 190
sorry 70
Noble 54
Icarus 7
Dota 2
monkeys_forever337
NeuroSwarm108
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox1067
Mew2King44
Other Games
summit1g16632
fl0m560
JimRising 556
WinterStarcraft363
ViBE145
kaitlyn5
Models0
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick889
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 5
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21649
League of Legends
• Rush1277
• Hupsaiya70
• HappyZerGling67
Other Games
• Shiphtur488
Upcoming Events
OSC
4h 24m
Wardi Open
7h 24m
Wardi Open
11h 24m
Replay Cast
18h 24m
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 7h
Replay Cast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
[ Show More ]
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
BSL 21
5 days
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
BSL 21
6 days
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-07
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.