• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:25
CEST 15:25
KST 22:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format12[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend!5Weekly Cups (July 6 - 12): Protoss strike back12BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion8BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion8
StarCraft 2
General
Is the larve respawn broken? BGE Stara Zagora to be held again in June 2025 Weekly Cups (July 6 - 12): Protoss strike back Serral wins HomeStory Cup 29 Yamato Cup Series
Tourneys
WardiTV Summer Cup 2026 GSL CK #5 Race War RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event HomeStory Cup 29 Vespene Cup #1 — $300+ USD, July 10
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family
Brood War
General
Pros Debate: Zerg Unfairly Nerfed? (ASL S22 map) BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Etiquete rules in Asl? screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool
Tourneys
[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend! Escore Tournament - Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Wildcard Qualifier
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Summer Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
The Experiences We Want and …
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6261 users

Season 3 Ladder Map Changes (Official) - Page 14

Forum Index > SC2 General
1106 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 12 13 14 15 16 56 Next
Ribbon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5278 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-25 22:44:51
July 25 2011 22:43 GMT
#261
On July 26 2011 06:36 Zerker wrote:
Tal’darim Altar, has a heavy (60%+) bias toward zerg at the highest levels of play. ~ Which means they didnt just pull stats straight from GM. They pulled stats subjectively. It's easy to pull stats on 1 map in a certain context like they did. What exactly does "highest level" mean, Tournaments? top 500? top 10? top 200? They didn't give a number at all just random % that don't mean a lot towards balance.

u guys are reading it wrong. It's not 60% on metal.

Also its stupid to remove metal for close spawn but not remove shattered temple which has the same exact problem.


They had to replace 4 maps, and 3 of the maps were awful. That leaves you the choice of metal OR shattered, and Metal's really really old. I imagine Shattered Temple will not be around for Season 4.
flowSthead
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1065 Posts
July 25 2011 22:44 GMT
#262
I just don't understand why Blizzard assumes that their maps will be better. Why not source this stuff to the community? I mean they say that they want these things to be fun for the casuals and the more serious gamers, but I really doubt more balanced and interesting maps from experienced community map makers will be less fun for the casuals.

What am I missing here?
"You can be creative but I will crush it under the iron fist of my conservative play." - Liquid`Tyler █ MVP ■ MC ■ Boxer ■ Grubby █
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
July 25 2011 22:44 GMT
#263
On July 26 2011 07:42 Bluerain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2011 07:37 OPL3SA2 wrote:
I think it's borderline hilarious that zerg had 60% winrate at the highest level of competition, and zergs complained the most about this map.


i think its hilarious that ppl take the words of blizzard with blind faith. think about it yourself what makes a map imbalanced and what makes it imbalanced for zerg. then think whats worse, meta or these new maps.


are you suggesting that they are lying about the statistics?
MilesTeg
Profile Joined September 2010
France1271 Posts
July 25 2011 22:44 GMT
#264
On July 26 2011 07:37 OPL3SA2 wrote:
I think it's borderline hilarious that zerg had 60% winrate at the highest level of competition, and zergs complained the most about this map.


I honestly think that as it is in the ladder it's not that good for zerg. Close position is obviously really bad, and I don't think close air favours zerg that much, with no alternative attack path unless you're willing to take ages to go around the map to attack. Cross position is the only thing that's really good.

It's one of these weird stats for me, like Crossfire statistically favouring zerg although it looks so bad for them in theory.
DiaBoLuS
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany1638 Posts
July 25 2011 22:44 GMT
#265
On July 26 2011 07:41 iiGreetings wrote:
They took out metal and keeping backwater -.- Awful pick.

They need to add in bel'shir beach,crevasse,terminus,dual sight. I would be so loyal to Bliz if they did and maybe testbug


bel'shir = Z autowin-map. crevasse, terminus is good, dno about duel sight. i like testbug as well.

2 autovetos on the old map, from the previews of the new ones, i gotta say i want 5 vetos.
European Ranking: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=182293
OPL3SA2
Profile Joined April 2011
United States378 Posts
July 25 2011 22:45 GMT
#266
On July 26 2011 07:42 nforce wrote:
Calm down, guys, I'm sure Blizzard know what they are doing and talking about when map balance is the subject.

+ Show Spoiler +
http://i.imgur.com/e35Pc.jpg


Oh, wait...


You should really have blacked out the part where you're floating 1500 mineral at 13:00 into the game it ruins your argument
Playoffs? You're talking about playoffs?
Sega92
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States467 Posts
July 25 2011 22:45 GMT
#267
have to say, just played searing crater. that map is going to be amazing...easy third and super safe nat
sLBraemar
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada285 Posts
July 25 2011 22:46 GMT
#268
Metalopolis, OMG why take that away, LOL.
Don't wait for an opportunity to come to you, create your own.
Dalguno
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2446 Posts
July 25 2011 22:46 GMT
#269
Can we stop personal attacks and discuss empirically and without insane bias why these maps are good/not good or why we like/don't like the updates? Going at someone's throat, or at Blizzard's, isn't accomplishing anything.
"I'm gonna keep making drones cause I'm a baller, and ballers make drones." -Snute
nforce
Profile Joined March 2010
Bulgaria116 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-25 22:47:37
July 25 2011 22:46 GMT
#270
On July 26 2011 07:45 OPL3SA2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2011 07:42 nforce wrote:
Calm down, guys, I'm sure Blizzard know what they are doing and talking about when map balance is the subject.

+ Show Spoiler +
http://i.imgur.com/e35Pc.jpg


Oh, wait...


You should really have blacked out the part where you're floating 1500 mineral at 13:00 into the game it ruins your argument

It's not my game (no PTR in EU), even if it was - argument still stands. They should fire their mappers and outsource the process to the community.
Not that it matters but I won't be laddering from now on, not unless they give me at least 3 more veto votes.
Brayzon
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany29 Posts
July 25 2011 22:46 GMT
#271
lol they are adding 4 crappy maps, even worse for zerg if close spawns and then remove meta with such a shitty argumentation. as a zerg, i feel like they feed the noobs. oh yeah, we are removing metalopolis, but adding 4 maps, that u can cheese ur way to masters. if they would make the mappool with maps of users, it would have gone alot better e.g.

crossfire
xnc
meta
bel'shir
crevasse
terminus
tal'darim
xnf
dual sight
neo enigma
testbug
shattered
iccup nemesis
iccup starlight breaker
shakuras plateau

you see there is even too much GREAT maps to create a single map pool with it, you could easily build up to 5 different, balenced map pools. but instead, blizzard is giving us 4 new shitty maps, while there is still backwater gulch remaining. also i dont get it, why they dont actually add user maps. there are some great iccup/gsl maps. blizzard is doing the worst they coud have done. again. losing to a 6pool allin cause u spawned close on slagpits or losing to 5rax due to the maps that enables such effects sucks, definetely. now you can expect them alot more often (on 4 maps).
once again, fuck you blizzard im out, and dont know how long i will continue to play the ladder in the game i most loved. ther IS a reason why NOONE uses blizzards maps. i wouldve posted this in the bnet forums, but due to the fact that ive got an eu account, i cant post there. as a european i feel like i just can swallow the shit, that the mightier persons produce, like in human centipede (lol). i havent had the abillity to play on a SINGLE pta, cause there was only one, which i missed cause im european. yeah great justice there.

thats it, flame me blame me but PLEASE notice my humble and most honest oppinion
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-25 22:47:43
July 25 2011 22:46 GMT
#272
On July 26 2011 07:44 DiaBoLuS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2011 07:41 iiGreetings wrote:
They took out metal and keeping backwater -.- Awful pick.

They need to add in bel'shir beach,crevasse,terminus,dual sight. I would be so loyal to Bliz if they did and maybe testbug


bel'shir = Z autowin-map. crevasse, terminus is good, dno about duel sight. i like testbug as well.

2 autovetos on the old map, from the previews of the new ones, i gotta say i want 5 vetos.


bel'shir doesn't seem z auto win map. going by TL database its 11-9 favoring zerg zvt, 9-8 favoring zerg in zvp, 8-8 pvt. I know thats not alot of stats, but if its a z autowin map it should be 20-0 zvt, 17-0 zvp.

do note I am not saying its not zerg favored, but its not anywhere near as bad as you seem to think it is.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Termit
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden3466 Posts
July 25 2011 22:47 GMT
#273
I like how so many people are pulling the "it was an old map keep it fresh and new" when the game isn't even near a finished product or an old game. Maybe Blizzard should focus on getting better maps before they remove the good ones just because it has been around for a long time.

;_;
( ̄。 ̄)~zzz ◕ ◡ ◕
DeepBlu2
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
United States975 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-25 22:48:03
July 25 2011 22:47 GMT
#274
On July 26 2011 07:43 OPL3SA2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2011 07:33 DeepBlu2 wrote:
Their reasoning wasn't close positions.. Their reasoning was it being a Zerg-favored map.... I have serious doubts about Blizzard. I played the test maps on PTR and the only thing I'm glad about is that I'll be able to veto most of them. Also, Shattered Temple Rush distance Close positions is much faster than Close positions metal.


Is this you saying the same wrong thing twice



HAHAHAHAA.. You are calling me an idiot yet you have short term memory loss and think I posted it twice... I like how you find it hilarious that Metal has a 60% zerg win rate against Terran yet Xel'Naga is 60% TvZ...Yet Blizzard does nothing. It's irritating how you are oblivious to why Blizzard removed it and why they won't remove any other map... Zerker has his points as well as me yet all you have are you spamming this thread with useless posts insulting everyone in this thread because of your own bias.
u gotta sk8
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
July 25 2011 22:47 GMT
#275
Good riddens to Metalopolis. Unbelievable context, in the map pool for too long. One thing's for sure, it was no Heartbreak Ridge or Outsider.

Blizzard still hasn't learned that one-word map names are cooler than two word ones.
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
July 25 2011 22:47 GMT
#276
On July 26 2011 07:42 nforce wrote:
Calm down, guys, I'm sure Blizzard know what they are doing and talking about when map balance is the subject.

+ Show Spoiler +
http://i.imgur.com/e35Pc.jpg


Oh, wait...

Are you saying that ledges are imbalanced? Also, how the hell did you let him get over there, it looks like he had to go ALL the way around in those positions
SiguR
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada2039 Posts
July 25 2011 22:48 GMT
#277
Shakuras plateau needs to be gone.
XiaN
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Germany162 Posts
July 25 2011 22:48 GMT
#278
On July 26 2011 07:35 norterrible wrote:
Why are they removing 4 2v2 and 3v3 maps but only adding 2??


Would you rather have 1000 imbalanced 2v2/3v3 maps than 5 balanced ones? I'm pretty sure blizzard does that do have

a) a smaller pool of maps to base their team balance changes on ( choosing the most balanced maps for the next ladder )
b) some of the maps where highly imbalanced towards certain race combo's. And i totally agree with them in putting a lower number of balanced maps on the ratio rather then keeping the good ol's. Maybe they didn't found any suitable maps for team games before this ladder reset.

I don't wanna sound stupid about it, but maybe ... there where simply no balanced team maps they or the GSL came up with that they could include.
< (。◕‿‿◕。) > | Former technical admin of ROOT-Gaming (root-gaming.com)
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
July 25 2011 22:48 GMT
#279
On July 26 2011 07:47 DeepBlu2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2011 07:43 OPL3SA2 wrote:
On July 26 2011 07:33 DeepBlu2 wrote:
Their reasoning wasn't close positions.. Their reasoning was it being a Zerg-favored map.... I have serious doubts about Blizzard. I played the test maps on PTR and the only thing I'm glad about is that I'll be able to veto most of them. Also, Shattered Temple Rush distance Close positions is much faster than Close positions metal.


Is this you saying the same wrong thing twice



HAHAHAHAA.. You are calling me an idiot yet you have short term memory loss and think I posted it twice... I like how you find it hilarious that Metal has a 60% zerg win rate against Terran yet Xel'Naga is 60% TvZ...Yet Blizzard does nothing. It's irritating how you are oblivious to why Blizzard removed it and why they won't remove any other map... Zerker has his points as well as me yet all you have are you spamming this thread with useless posts.


metal is a 53.7% win rate for zerg not 60, not anywhere near as high as xelnaga.
When I think of something else, something will go here
NKexquisite
Profile Joined January 2009
United States911 Posts
July 25 2011 22:48 GMT
#280
Glad Metalopolis was removed - Ready for something new, but I will for sure be vetoing BWG

Are people just afraid to try new maps?
Whattttt Upppppppp Im Nesteaaaaaa!!
Prev 1 12 13 14 15 16 56 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Qualifier
12:00
Summer Cup, Qualifier #1
WardiTV557
Liquipedia
CrankTV Team League
11:00
Crank Gathers S4: Group Stage
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko387
SortOf 158
RushiSC 15
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 9214
Sea 1795
Horang2 572
EffOrt 514
Soma 417
Mini 306
BeSt 292
Soulkey 252
Light 223
actioN 194
[ Show more ]
Snow 177
Last 157
Mong 146
Larva 112
Rush 103
JYJ 97
Zeus 90
hero 65
Sharp 56
Sea.KH 54
Pusan 52
Killer 45
ToSsGirL 43
sorry 35
JulyZerg 31
Barracks 21
HiyA 20
Bale 20
Sacsri 15
zelot 13
IntoTheRainbow 13
Sexy 11
ajuk12(nOOB) 10
Yoon 10
Icarus 6
Dota 2
Gorgc8122
syndereN160
XcaliburYe104
League of Legends
Doublelift2425
Counter-Strike
markeloff128
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor48
Other Games
singsing1652
B2W.Neo562
hiko527
crisheroes316
DeMusliM279
Happy219
Sick142
XaKoH 136
Liquid`VortiX57
QueenE51
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2573
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 1007
Other Games
BasetradeTV201
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 74
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2391
• TFBlade403
Upcoming Events
OSC
3h 35m
Replay Cast
19h 35m
CrankTV Team League
21h 35m
WardiTV Qualifier
22h 35m
Epic.LAN
23h 35m
Replay Cast
1d 10h
RSL Revival
1d 19h
Clem vs Lambo
Scarlett vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
1d 20h
Epic.LAN
1d 23h
IPSL
2 days
Dragon vs Hawk
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
2 days
Classic vs Trap
herO vs SHIN
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
IPSL
3 days
Bonyth vs Ret
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-07-13
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W3
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 1
Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.