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On July 26 2011 06:36 Zerker wrote:
Tal’darim Altar, has a heavy (60%+) bias toward zerg at the highest levels of play. ~ Which means they didnt just pull stats straight from GM. They pulled stats subjectively. It's easy to pull stats on 1 map in a certain context like they did. What exactly does "highest level" mean, Tournaments? top 500? top 10? top 200? They didn't give a number at all just random % that don't mean a lot towards balance.
u guys are reading it wrong. It's not 60% on metal.
Also its stupid to remove metal for close spawn but not remove shattered temple which has the same exact problem.
They had to replace 4 maps, and 3 of the maps were awful. That leaves you the choice of metal OR shattered, and Metal's really really old. I imagine Shattered Temple will not be around for Season 4.
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I just don't understand why Blizzard assumes that their maps will be better. Why not source this stuff to the community? I mean they say that they want these things to be fun for the casuals and the more serious gamers, but I really doubt more balanced and interesting maps from experienced community map makers will be less fun for the casuals.
What am I missing here?
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On July 26 2011 07:42 Bluerain wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 07:37 OPL3SA2 wrote:
I think it's borderline hilarious that zerg had 60% winrate at the highest level of competition, and zergs complained the most about this map. i think its hilarious that ppl take the words of blizzard with blind faith. think about it yourself what makes a map imbalanced and what makes it imbalanced for zerg. then think whats worse, meta or these new maps.
are you suggesting that they are lying about the statistics?
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On July 26 2011 07:37 OPL3SA2 wrote:
I think it's borderline hilarious that zerg had 60% winrate at the highest level of competition, and zergs complained the most about this map.
I honestly think that as it is in the ladder it's not that good for zerg. Close position is obviously really bad, and I don't think close air favours zerg that much, with no alternative attack path unless you're willing to take ages to go around the map to attack. Cross position is the only thing that's really good.
It's one of these weird stats for me, like Crossfire statistically favouring zerg although it looks so bad for them in theory.
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On July 26 2011 07:41 iiGreetings wrote:
They took out metal and keeping backwater -.- Awful pick.
They need to add in bel'shir beach,crevasse,terminus,dual sight. I would be so loyal to Bliz if they did and maybe testbug
bel'shir = Z autowin-map. crevasse, terminus is good, dno about duel sight. i like testbug as well.
2 autovetos on the old map, from the previews of the new ones, i gotta say i want 5 vetos.
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On July 26 2011 07:42 nforce wrote:Calm down, guys, I'm sure Blizzard know what they are doing and talking about when map balance is the subject. + Show Spoiler +Oh, wait...
You should really have blacked out the part where you're floating 1500 mineral at 13:00 into the game it ruins your argument
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have to say, just played searing crater. that map is going to be amazing...easy third and super safe nat
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Metalopolis, OMG why take that away, LOL.
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Can we stop personal attacks and discuss empirically and without insane bias why these maps are good/not good or why we like/don't like the updates? Going at someone's throat, or at Blizzard's, isn't accomplishing anything.
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On July 26 2011 07:45 OPL3SA2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 07:42 nforce wrote:Calm down, guys, I'm sure Blizzard know what they are doing and talking about when map balance is the subject. + Show Spoiler +Oh, wait... You should really have blacked out the part where you're floating 1500 mineral at 13:00 into the game it ruins your argument
It's not my game (no PTR in EU), even if it was - argument still stands. They should fire their mappers and outsource the process to the community.
Not that it matters but I won't be laddering from now on, not unless they give me at least 3 more veto votes.
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lol they are adding 4 crappy maps, even worse for zerg if close spawns and then remove meta with such a shitty argumentation. as a zerg, i feel like they feed the noobs. oh yeah, we are removing metalopolis, but adding 4 maps, that u can cheese ur way to masters. if they would make the mappool with maps of users, it would have gone alot better e.g.
crossfire
xnc
meta
bel'shir
crevasse
terminus
tal'darim
xnf
dual sight
neo enigma
testbug
shattered
iccup nemesis
iccup starlight breaker
shakuras plateau
you see there is even too much GREAT maps to create a single map pool with it, you could easily build up to 5 different, balenced map pools. but instead, blizzard is giving us 4 new shitty maps, while there is still backwater gulch remaining. also i dont get it, why they dont actually add user maps. there are some great iccup/gsl maps. blizzard is doing the worst they coud have done. again. losing to a 6pool allin cause u spawned close on slagpits or losing to 5rax due to the maps that enables such effects sucks, definetely. now you can expect them alot more often (on 4 maps).
once again, fuck you blizzard  im out, and dont know how long i will continue to play the ladder in the game i most loved. ther IS a reason why NOONE uses blizzards maps. i wouldve posted this in the bnet forums, but due to the fact that ive got an eu account, i cant post there. as a european i feel like i just can swallow the shit, that the mightier persons produce, like in human centipede (lol). i havent had the abillity to play on a SINGLE pta, cause there was only one, which i missed cause im european. yeah great justice there.
thats it, flame me blame me but PLEASE notice my humble and most honest oppinion
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On July 26 2011 07:44 DiaBoLuS wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 07:41 iiGreetings wrote:
They took out metal and keeping backwater -.- Awful pick.
They need to add in bel'shir beach,crevasse,terminus,dual sight. I would be so loyal to Bliz if they did and maybe testbug bel'shir = Z autowin-map. crevasse, terminus is good, dno about duel sight. i like testbug as well. 2 autovetos on the old map, from the previews of the new ones, i gotta say i want 5 vetos.
bel'shir doesn't seem z auto win map. going by TL database its 11-9 favoring zerg zvt, 9-8 favoring zerg in zvp, 8-8 pvt. I know thats not alot of stats, but if its a z autowin map it should be 20-0 zvt, 17-0 zvp.
do note I am not saying its not zerg favored, but its not anywhere near as bad as you seem to think it is.
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I like how so many people are pulling the "it was an old map keep it fresh and new" when the game isn't even near a finished product or an old game. Maybe Blizzard should focus on getting better maps before they remove the good ones just because it has been around for a long time.
;_;
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On July 26 2011 07:43 OPL3SA2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 07:33 DeepBlu2 wrote:
Their reasoning wasn't close positions.. Their reasoning was it being a Zerg-favored map.... I have serious doubts about Blizzard. I played the test maps on PTR and the only thing I'm glad about is that I'll be able to veto most of them. Also, Shattered Temple Rush distance Close positions is much faster than Close positions metal. Is this you saying the same wrong thing twice
HAHAHAHAA.. You are calling me an idiot yet you have short term memory loss and think I posted it twice... I like how you find it hilarious that Metal has a 60% zerg win rate against Terran yet Xel'Naga is 60% TvZ...Yet Blizzard does nothing. It's irritating how you are oblivious to why Blizzard removed it and why they won't remove any other map... Zerker has his points as well as me yet all you have are you spamming this thread with useless posts insulting everyone in this thread because of your own bias.
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Good riddens to Metalopolis. Unbelievable context, in the map pool for too long. One thing's for sure, it was no Heartbreak Ridge or Outsider.
Blizzard still hasn't learned that one-word map names are cooler than two word ones.
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On July 26 2011 07:42 nforce wrote:Calm down, guys, I'm sure Blizzard know what they are doing and talking about when map balance is the subject. + Show Spoiler +Oh, wait...
Are you saying that ledges are imbalanced? Also, how the hell did you let him get over there, it looks like he had to go ALL the way around in those positions
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Shakuras plateau needs to be gone.
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On July 26 2011 07:35 norterrible wrote:
Why are they removing 4 2v2 and 3v3 maps but only adding 2??
Would you rather have 1000 imbalanced 2v2/3v3 maps than 5 balanced ones? I'm pretty sure blizzard does that do have
a) a smaller pool of maps to base their team balance changes on ( choosing the most balanced maps for the next ladder )
b) some of the maps where highly imbalanced towards certain race combo's. And i totally agree with them in putting a lower number of balanced maps on the ratio rather then keeping the good ol's. Maybe they didn't found any suitable maps for team games before this ladder reset.
I don't wanna sound stupid about it, but maybe ... there where simply no balanced team maps they or the GSL came up with that they could include.
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On July 26 2011 07:47 DeepBlu2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 07:43 OPL3SA2 wrote:On July 26 2011 07:33 DeepBlu2 wrote:
Their reasoning wasn't close positions.. Their reasoning was it being a Zerg-favored map.... I have serious doubts about Blizzard. I played the test maps on PTR and the only thing I'm glad about is that I'll be able to veto most of them. Also, Shattered Temple Rush distance Close positions is much faster than Close positions metal. Is this you saying the same wrong thing twice HAHAHAHAA.. You are calling me an idiot yet you have short term memory loss and think I posted it twice... I like how you find it hilarious that Metal has a 60% zerg win rate against Terran yet Xel'Naga is 60% TvZ...Yet Blizzard does nothing. It's irritating how you are oblivious to why Blizzard removed it and why they won't remove any other map... Zerker has his points as well as me yet all you have are you spamming this thread with useless posts.
metal is a 53.7% win rate for zerg not 60, not anywhere near as high as xelnaga.
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Glad Metalopolis was removed - Ready for something new, but I will for sure be vetoing BWG
Are people just afraid to try new maps?
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EPT
