• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:46
CEST 09:46
KST 16:46
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview4[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)6Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview5
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 18-25): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League4Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double0Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results2Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1
StarCraft 2
General
herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview Weekly Cups (May 18-25): MaxPax wins doubles Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 527 Hell Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 526 Rubber and Glue Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
Pros React To: ASL S21 Finals BW General Discussion Very long shot - StarCraft x A7X video Pros React to: TvT Masterclass in FlaSh vs Light vespene.gg — BW replays in browser
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [BSL22] WB Final & LB Semis - Saturday 21:00 CEST [ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Dating: How's your luck? European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development streaming software
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Customization Drives Loyalty…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1974 users

Season 3 Ladder Map Changes (Official) - Page 14

Forum Index > SC2 General
1106 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 12 13 14 15 16 56 Next
Ribbon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5278 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-25 22:44:51
July 25 2011 22:43 GMT
#261
On July 26 2011 06:36 Zerker wrote:
Tal’darim Altar, has a heavy (60%+) bias toward zerg at the highest levels of play. ~ Which means they didnt just pull stats straight from GM. They pulled stats subjectively. It's easy to pull stats on 1 map in a certain context like they did. What exactly does "highest level" mean, Tournaments? top 500? top 10? top 200? They didn't give a number at all just random % that don't mean a lot towards balance.

u guys are reading it wrong. It's not 60% on metal.

Also its stupid to remove metal for close spawn but not remove shattered temple which has the same exact problem.


They had to replace 4 maps, and 3 of the maps were awful. That leaves you the choice of metal OR shattered, and Metal's really really old. I imagine Shattered Temple will not be around for Season 4.
flowSthead
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1065 Posts
July 25 2011 22:44 GMT
#262
I just don't understand why Blizzard assumes that their maps will be better. Why not source this stuff to the community? I mean they say that they want these things to be fun for the casuals and the more serious gamers, but I really doubt more balanced and interesting maps from experienced community map makers will be less fun for the casuals.

What am I missing here?
"You can be creative but I will crush it under the iron fist of my conservative play." - Liquid`Tyler █ MVP ■ MC ■ Boxer ■ Grubby █
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
July 25 2011 22:44 GMT
#263
On July 26 2011 07:42 Bluerain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2011 07:37 OPL3SA2 wrote:
I think it's borderline hilarious that zerg had 60% winrate at the highest level of competition, and zergs complained the most about this map.


i think its hilarious that ppl take the words of blizzard with blind faith. think about it yourself what makes a map imbalanced and what makes it imbalanced for zerg. then think whats worse, meta or these new maps.


are you suggesting that they are lying about the statistics?
MilesTeg
Profile Joined September 2010
France1271 Posts
July 25 2011 22:44 GMT
#264
On July 26 2011 07:37 OPL3SA2 wrote:
I think it's borderline hilarious that zerg had 60% winrate at the highest level of competition, and zergs complained the most about this map.


I honestly think that as it is in the ladder it's not that good for zerg. Close position is obviously really bad, and I don't think close air favours zerg that much, with no alternative attack path unless you're willing to take ages to go around the map to attack. Cross position is the only thing that's really good.

It's one of these weird stats for me, like Crossfire statistically favouring zerg although it looks so bad for them in theory.
DiaBoLuS
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany1638 Posts
July 25 2011 22:44 GMT
#265
On July 26 2011 07:41 iiGreetings wrote:
They took out metal and keeping backwater -.- Awful pick.

They need to add in bel'shir beach,crevasse,terminus,dual sight. I would be so loyal to Bliz if they did and maybe testbug


bel'shir = Z autowin-map. crevasse, terminus is good, dno about duel sight. i like testbug as well.

2 autovetos on the old map, from the previews of the new ones, i gotta say i want 5 vetos.
European Ranking: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=182293
OPL3SA2
Profile Joined April 2011
United States378 Posts
July 25 2011 22:45 GMT
#266
On July 26 2011 07:42 nforce wrote:
Calm down, guys, I'm sure Blizzard know what they are doing and talking about when map balance is the subject.

+ Show Spoiler +
http://i.imgur.com/e35Pc.jpg


Oh, wait...


You should really have blacked out the part where you're floating 1500 mineral at 13:00 into the game it ruins your argument
Playoffs? You're talking about playoffs?
Sega92
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States467 Posts
July 25 2011 22:45 GMT
#267
have to say, just played searing crater. that map is going to be amazing...easy third and super safe nat
sLBraemar
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada285 Posts
July 25 2011 22:46 GMT
#268
Metalopolis, OMG why take that away, LOL.
Don't wait for an opportunity to come to you, create your own.
Dalguno
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2446 Posts
July 25 2011 22:46 GMT
#269
Can we stop personal attacks and discuss empirically and without insane bias why these maps are good/not good or why we like/don't like the updates? Going at someone's throat, or at Blizzard's, isn't accomplishing anything.
"I'm gonna keep making drones cause I'm a baller, and ballers make drones." -Snute
nforce
Profile Joined March 2010
Bulgaria116 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-25 22:47:37
July 25 2011 22:46 GMT
#270
On July 26 2011 07:45 OPL3SA2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2011 07:42 nforce wrote:
Calm down, guys, I'm sure Blizzard know what they are doing and talking about when map balance is the subject.

+ Show Spoiler +
http://i.imgur.com/e35Pc.jpg


Oh, wait...


You should really have blacked out the part where you're floating 1500 mineral at 13:00 into the game it ruins your argument

It's not my game (no PTR in EU), even if it was - argument still stands. They should fire their mappers and outsource the process to the community.
Not that it matters but I won't be laddering from now on, not unless they give me at least 3 more veto votes.
Brayzon
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany29 Posts
July 25 2011 22:46 GMT
#271
lol they are adding 4 crappy maps, even worse for zerg if close spawns and then remove meta with such a shitty argumentation. as a zerg, i feel like they feed the noobs. oh yeah, we are removing metalopolis, but adding 4 maps, that u can cheese ur way to masters. if they would make the mappool with maps of users, it would have gone alot better e.g.

crossfire
xnc
meta
bel'shir
crevasse
terminus
tal'darim
xnf
dual sight
neo enigma
testbug
shattered
iccup nemesis
iccup starlight breaker
shakuras plateau

you see there is even too much GREAT maps to create a single map pool with it, you could easily build up to 5 different, balenced map pools. but instead, blizzard is giving us 4 new shitty maps, while there is still backwater gulch remaining. also i dont get it, why they dont actually add user maps. there are some great iccup/gsl maps. blizzard is doing the worst they coud have done. again. losing to a 6pool allin cause u spawned close on slagpits or losing to 5rax due to the maps that enables such effects sucks, definetely. now you can expect them alot more often (on 4 maps).
once again, fuck you blizzard im out, and dont know how long i will continue to play the ladder in the game i most loved. ther IS a reason why NOONE uses blizzards maps. i wouldve posted this in the bnet forums, but due to the fact that ive got an eu account, i cant post there. as a european i feel like i just can swallow the shit, that the mightier persons produce, like in human centipede (lol). i havent had the abillity to play on a SINGLE pta, cause there was only one, which i missed cause im european. yeah great justice there.

thats it, flame me blame me but PLEASE notice my humble and most honest oppinion
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-25 22:47:43
July 25 2011 22:46 GMT
#272
On July 26 2011 07:44 DiaBoLuS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2011 07:41 iiGreetings wrote:
They took out metal and keeping backwater -.- Awful pick.

They need to add in bel'shir beach,crevasse,terminus,dual sight. I would be so loyal to Bliz if they did and maybe testbug


bel'shir = Z autowin-map. crevasse, terminus is good, dno about duel sight. i like testbug as well.

2 autovetos on the old map, from the previews of the new ones, i gotta say i want 5 vetos.


bel'shir doesn't seem z auto win map. going by TL database its 11-9 favoring zerg zvt, 9-8 favoring zerg in zvp, 8-8 pvt. I know thats not alot of stats, but if its a z autowin map it should be 20-0 zvt, 17-0 zvp.

do note I am not saying its not zerg favored, but its not anywhere near as bad as you seem to think it is.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Termit
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden3466 Posts
July 25 2011 22:47 GMT
#273
I like how so many people are pulling the "it was an old map keep it fresh and new" when the game isn't even near a finished product or an old game. Maybe Blizzard should focus on getting better maps before they remove the good ones just because it has been around for a long time.

;_;
( ̄。 ̄)~zzz ◕ ◡ ◕
DeepBlu2
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
United States975 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-25 22:48:03
July 25 2011 22:47 GMT
#274
On July 26 2011 07:43 OPL3SA2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2011 07:33 DeepBlu2 wrote:
Their reasoning wasn't close positions.. Their reasoning was it being a Zerg-favored map.... I have serious doubts about Blizzard. I played the test maps on PTR and the only thing I'm glad about is that I'll be able to veto most of them. Also, Shattered Temple Rush distance Close positions is much faster than Close positions metal.


Is this you saying the same wrong thing twice



HAHAHAHAA.. You are calling me an idiot yet you have short term memory loss and think I posted it twice... I like how you find it hilarious that Metal has a 60% zerg win rate against Terran yet Xel'Naga is 60% TvZ...Yet Blizzard does nothing. It's irritating how you are oblivious to why Blizzard removed it and why they won't remove any other map... Zerker has his points as well as me yet all you have are you spamming this thread with useless posts insulting everyone in this thread because of your own bias.
u gotta sk8
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
July 25 2011 22:47 GMT
#275
Good riddens to Metalopolis. Unbelievable context, in the map pool for too long. One thing's for sure, it was no Heartbreak Ridge or Outsider.

Blizzard still hasn't learned that one-word map names are cooler than two word ones.
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
July 25 2011 22:47 GMT
#276
On July 26 2011 07:42 nforce wrote:
Calm down, guys, I'm sure Blizzard know what they are doing and talking about when map balance is the subject.

+ Show Spoiler +
http://i.imgur.com/e35Pc.jpg


Oh, wait...

Are you saying that ledges are imbalanced? Also, how the hell did you let him get over there, it looks like he had to go ALL the way around in those positions
SiguR
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada2039 Posts
July 25 2011 22:48 GMT
#277
Shakuras plateau needs to be gone.
XiaN
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Germany162 Posts
July 25 2011 22:48 GMT
#278
On July 26 2011 07:35 norterrible wrote:
Why are they removing 4 2v2 and 3v3 maps but only adding 2??


Would you rather have 1000 imbalanced 2v2/3v3 maps than 5 balanced ones? I'm pretty sure blizzard does that do have

a) a smaller pool of maps to base their team balance changes on ( choosing the most balanced maps for the next ladder )
b) some of the maps where highly imbalanced towards certain race combo's. And i totally agree with them in putting a lower number of balanced maps on the ratio rather then keeping the good ol's. Maybe they didn't found any suitable maps for team games before this ladder reset.

I don't wanna sound stupid about it, but maybe ... there where simply no balanced team maps they or the GSL came up with that they could include.
< (。◕‿‿◕。) > | Former technical admin of ROOT-Gaming (root-gaming.com)
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
July 25 2011 22:48 GMT
#279
On July 26 2011 07:47 DeepBlu2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2011 07:43 OPL3SA2 wrote:
On July 26 2011 07:33 DeepBlu2 wrote:
Their reasoning wasn't close positions.. Their reasoning was it being a Zerg-favored map.... I have serious doubts about Blizzard. I played the test maps on PTR and the only thing I'm glad about is that I'll be able to veto most of them. Also, Shattered Temple Rush distance Close positions is much faster than Close positions metal.


Is this you saying the same wrong thing twice



HAHAHAHAA.. You are calling me an idiot yet you have short term memory loss and think I posted it twice... I like how you find it hilarious that Metal has a 60% zerg win rate against Terran yet Xel'Naga is 60% TvZ...Yet Blizzard does nothing. It's irritating how you are oblivious to why Blizzard removed it and why they won't remove any other map... Zerker has his points as well as me yet all you have are you spamming this thread with useless posts.


metal is a 53.7% win rate for zerg not 60, not anywhere near as high as xelnaga.
When I think of something else, something will go here
NKexquisite
Profile Joined January 2009
United States911 Posts
July 25 2011 22:48 GMT
#280
Glad Metalopolis was removed - Ready for something new, but I will for sure be vetoing BWG

Are people just afraid to try new maps?
Whattttt Upppppppp Im Nesteaaaaaa!!
Prev 1 12 13 14 15 16 56 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 44m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 1216
Nal_rA 44
ToSsGirL 42
Pusan 18
Bale 16
soO 12
NotJumperer 3
Counter-Strike
m0e_tv594
ceh9564
kRYSTAL_54
Other Games
summit1g10568
WinterStarcraft530
Happy244
Mew2King163
RuFF_SC223
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick590
Counter-Strike
PGL421
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 11
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 13
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 7
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1419
• HappyZerGling113
Upcoming Events
GSL
1h 44m
Maru vs SHIN
Zoun vs Rogue
WardiTV Spring Champion…
4h 14m
SKillous vs Strange
Lambo vs Strange
Ryung vs Strange
Lambo vs Ryung
Ryung vs SKillous
Lambo vs SKillous
OSC
11h 14m
Replay Cast
16h 14m
Maestros of the Game
1d 5h
Replay Cast
1d 16h
RSL Revival
1d 23h
Lambo vs SHIN
Solar vs Rogue
herO vs Clem
Maestros of the Game
2 days
IPSL
2 days
ZZZero vs WorsT
Julia vs eOnzErG
BSL
2 days
TerrOr vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs eOnzErG
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Maestros of the Game
3 days
IPSL
3 days
Dragon vs Artosis
dxtr13 vs Hawk
BSL
3 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
5 days
Maestros of the Game
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Maestros of the Game
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 21
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

2026 KK StarCraft Pro League
BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
KK 2v2 League Season 1
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: King of Kings
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
Bounty Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.