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About some troubles (SlayerS_Jessica) - Page 33

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Whenever you hit post in this thread, think long and hard. Are you showing the proper amount of respect? If that is not the case, do not hit the post button.
Foooky
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Australia205 Posts
July 22 2011 00:25 GMT
#641
Alot of the posts in this thread seem to be about justifying putting her on the team. However, Jessica's post mainly pertains to her choice to defend her female team member from the cyberbullying in Korea. Whether she's deserving of a team spot or not is debatable, but I really think its a good move to bring people who post extremely disgusting things (her face on AV actresses) to justice. It not only hurts the person and any female who might desire to become a progamer in the future, but also her family!
Catacrux
Profile Joined June 2011
2 Posts
July 22 2011 00:26 GMT
#642
Affirmative Action (SlayerS) vs Anti-Affirmative Action (Destiny)

SlayerS wants to get more female gamers into the professional scene by recruiting a female. <--- Affirmative Action POV.

^ I see nothing wrong with that, just my opinion.

Destiny's point is "That's sexist." <--- Anti-Affirmative Action POV.

I believe the post has a bit lost in translation due to cultural differences.
Ridiculisk
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia191 Posts
July 22 2011 00:27 GMT
#643
Much respect Jess. <3 <3 <3

I think you're doing the right thing as both SlayerS managment and a professional in the world of E-sports.

Protecting your players from baseless bullying is very admirable.

I'll be cheering for SlayerS_Eve in teh GSTL.

SlayerS hwaiting!
TAhackdZ.379 - Sc2sea.com Article Writer
Deleuzebwo
Profile Joined April 2011
72 Posts
July 22 2011 00:29 GMT
#644
On July 22 2011 09:25 Foooky wrote:
Alot of the posts in this thread seem to be about justifying putting her on the team. However, Jessica's post mainly pertains to her choice to defend her female team member from the cyberbullying in Korea. Whether she's deserving of a team spot or not is debatable, but I really think its a good move to bring people who post extremely disgusting things (her face on AV actresses) to justice. It not only hurts the person and any female who might desire to become a progamer in the future, but also her family!


I don't think anyone is condoning the bullying. You are right - it is things like that which create a hostile environment for women in esports. But how Jessica's post is worded does its own, more subtle, damage. Mindsets AND behaviors must be changed. Lets fix both.
Becoming-intense
Puph
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada635 Posts
July 22 2011 00:30 GMT
#645
I think both sides somewhat over-reacted to say the least, but the fact of the matter remains that slayers_ is attempting to breach the gender barrier and shunning this is simply sexism. I am sure others have said the same but this is how I personally feel about it

It is truly unfortunate that it had to come to a first-hand explanation here on our own TL network but I am glad one has finally been given. Everything should just be dropped and trolls blocked, as per usual...
Intel Dual Core 4400 @ ~2.00GHz / 2046MB RAM / 256 MB ATI Radeon x1300PRO
Deleuzebwo
Profile Joined April 2011
72 Posts
July 22 2011 00:31 GMT
#646
On July 22 2011 09:26 Catacrux wrote:
Affirmative Action (SlayerS) vs Anti-Affirmative Action (Destiny)

SlayerS wants to get more female gamers into the professional scene by recruiting a female. <--- Affirmative Action POV.

^ I see nothing wrong with that, just my opinion.

Destiny's point is "That's sexist." <--- Anti-Affirmative Action POV.

I believe the post has a bit lost in translation due to cultural differences.



No. That is not what Jessica's post says. It says they are bringing in a female player for entertainment, not expecting her to compete seriously in the GSL. I'm not really a fan of Destiny, and I am not an anti-AA crusader, but that's not even how the post is worded.
Becoming-intense
RevOrchid
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada68 Posts
July 22 2011 00:32 GMT
#647
Although I was never against Eve's joining of SlayerS, I must say that you cleared up a lot of bad air in the community (: I hope this situation settles down ASAP and Eve can become successful!
imallinson
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United Kingdom3482 Posts
July 22 2011 00:32 GMT
#648
Alot of the posts in this thread seem to be about justifying putting her on the team. However, Jessica's post mainly pertains to her choice to defend her female team member from the cyberbullying in Korea. Whether she's deserving of a team spot or not is debatable, but I really think its a good move to bring people who post extremely disgusting things (her face on AV actresses) to justice. It not only hurts the person and any female who might desire to become a progamer in the future, but also her family!


That is because no one disagrees with Jessica saying the bullying is fucked up.
Liquipedia
Deleuzebwo
Profile Joined April 2011
72 Posts
July 22 2011 00:33 GMT
#649
On July 22 2011 09:30 Puph wrote:
I think both sides somewhat over-reacted to say the least, but the fact of the matter remains that slayers_ is attempting to breach the gender barrier and shunning this is simply sexism. I am sure others have said the same but this is how I personally feel about it

It is truly unfortunate that it had to come to a first-hand explanation here on our own TL network but I am glad one has finally been given. Everything should just be dropped and trolls blocked, as per usual...


Discussion needs to ensue if we are to actually change the esports environment for women. Trolls can be banned but things should not be dropped.

Again, this post does not, in fact, breach the gender barrier. If they were to recruit Eve with a simple "She has potential guys, watch out!" that certainly would. Saying women can't compete in BW, saying that Eve is there for entertainment and not as a serious GSL competitor do not.

Big yes to reaching out to female gamers, but I think the presentation needs polishing.
Becoming-intense
hunts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2113 Posts
July 22 2011 00:33 GMT
#650
<3 Hope everything goes well for Jessica and team SlayerS!
twitch.tv/huntstv 7x legend streamer
Zaik0
Profile Joined May 2010
Norway4 Posts
July 22 2011 00:34 GMT
#651
To get more girl players they need a role model, first then the girl population will raise and we will get more good girl players that can compete on men's level, I cant see how that can be bad
If you don't do anything you'll never make mistakes.
darklight54321
Profile Joined July 2011
United States361 Posts
July 22 2011 00:37 GMT
#652
I've known several females of diamond league who are all upset with how this turned out. They feel that this is sexist against females to the utmost, and if this occurred in america slayers would be getting sued for sexism in the work place. From another friend the UK and Canada have a set of similar laws that would also lay grounds for a sue if a male at a higher level of skill got denied. WHihc, since SC2 has a hard skill level (hence the leagues) as part of it's system, any masters who gets denied would be able to sue.
volen
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany28 Posts
July 22 2011 00:38 GMT
#653
i am so ashamed right now, because of some immature and stupid people witch are doing this insults..i fell deeply sorry for SlayerS, Boxer, Jessica and Eve...These are people who give all they're passion, time, straight..you name it..practically all they have, into growing and making these scene the way it is and even more bigger, stronger and better.
I know haters will always exist in every community but i had hoped for better with in the SC and gaming community..
It's so sad that exactly this kind of stuff is what will be remembered and stand out out of all.
My biggest hope is that SlayerS and Jessica won't judge the whole TL from it..though i fear it is far to late...Even thought it probably won't matter i would like to excuse of behalf of these people to Eve and Jessica and to tell them that i deeply regret this happened.
I have nothing but huge respect to them.
We all care and love you...keep your passion and don't let such things pull you down...
SlayerS fighting <3
imallinson
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United Kingdom3482 Posts
July 22 2011 00:38 GMT
#654
but I think the presentation needs polishing.


It's the intent not the presentation that needs polishing. Recruiting her for being a girl is just as bad if they tell people or not.
Liquipedia
Catacrux
Profile Joined June 2011
2 Posts
July 22 2011 00:39 GMT
#655
On July 22 2011 09:31 Deleuzebwo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2011 09:26 Catacrux wrote:
Affirmative Action (SlayerS) vs Anti-Affirmative Action (Destiny)

SlayerS wants to get more female gamers into the professional scene by recruiting a female. <--- Affirmative Action POV.

^ I see nothing wrong with that, just my opinion.

Destiny's point is "That's sexist." <--- Anti-Affirmative Action POV.

I believe the post has a bit lost in translation due to cultural differences.



No. That is not what Jessica's post says. It says they are bringing in a female player for entertainment, not expecting her to compete seriously in the GSL. I'm not really a fan of Destiny, and I am not an anti-AA crusader, but that's not even how the post is worded.


My response was more geared towards what Destiny was saying on his stream. The point he is defending is that the fact they're giving her the opportunity because she's female is sexist (Anti-affirmative action POV). So there's no winner because one thinks they should help females enter the professional scene whereas Destiny thinks that females should get there on their own. What Destiny was arguing was Affirmative Action from SlayerS against his Anti-affirmative action POV.
dacthehork
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2000 Posts
July 22 2011 00:40 GMT
#656
No complaints about Tasteless signed by EG for being a commentator...... but upheaval over this
Warturtle - DOTA 2 is KING
MVega
Profile Joined November 2010
763 Posts
July 22 2011 00:40 GMT
#657
Thank you, SlayerS_Jessica for clarifying, and thank you for everything you and BoxeR are doing for the eSports community!
bumkin: How can you play like 50 games per day... I 4gate 2 times then it's nap time
katzby
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States110 Posts
July 22 2011 00:40 GMT
#658
Speaking as a female gamer, recruiting a person like Eve is insulting because it's assuming that women are too timid to make a name for themselves, to play for themselves, to train themselves, and they need encouragement in the form of a figurehead like Eve as a some sort of helping hand to get themselves reaching higher skill levels of Starcraft. This is equivalent to saying that women cannot hope to achieve the same skill level as men in games..... separating women from men in a male-dominated scene like Starcraft.

Anti-fanaticism is stupid, but you have to examine the factors that are fueling it. Even though it spiraled out of control with the immature people shopping pornographic images and personally attacking Slayers Jessica, you have to take the fact that Eve was recruited because she is a girl and she is 'pretty'. I am disgusted and amused at this bit. I'm amused because it's obviously a Korean who started the whole mess because of something superficial like outside appearance. I am disgusted because I have long since held the belief that with the growing popularity of Starcraft, a prominent female gamer would arrive on the scene. I am sorely disappointed in the fact that the status was given to this Eve. Eve may be pretty to look at, but other than that she is nothing special. Even with the coaching and training of the SlayerS team, she was given a helping hand, and did not achieve anything on her own to reach her position. When all the fanfare has died down, and if Eve has not played up to her potential, she will be dismissed and will even be a crushing blow towards developing genuine female interest in Starcraft.

With that being said, I'm waiting for the true Eve of Starcraft to appear, the one who actually worked her way up to the top with blood and tears. This false Eve is nothing more but a awakening herald of greatness to come.
OliverDONG
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada151 Posts
July 22 2011 00:41 GMT
#659
I like the idea but things need to settle down, right now i think there is a bit of overreacting from both side.
Deleuzebwo
Profile Joined April 2011
72 Posts
July 22 2011 00:42 GMT
#660
On July 22 2011 09:38 imallinson wrote:
Show nested quote +
but I think the presentation needs polishing.


It's the intent not the presentation that needs polishing. Recruiting her for being a girl is just as bad if they tell people or not.



I won't get into an Af-Action/Anti-Af-Action debate here. I should have been more clear though - that statement comes with the (hopeful) assumption that Jessica ACTUALLY meant to say that Eve could become as good as any of their male players. I am very hopeful that this is the result of overzealous translation.

Becoming-intense
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