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On July 21 2011 17:09 Haydin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:04 arbitrageur wrote:On July 21 2011 17:01 DystopiaX wrote:On July 21 2011 17:01 yeint wrote:On July 21 2011 16:58 Gamegene wrote:
Shit man, is it really that easy to steal a player by offering egregious sums of money without even talking to the team like you should?
I find it extremely shady. You can steal cars. You can't steal people. Because they are not property. Stop calling it theft, for fuck's sake. Breaking contract Elaborate, and then provide evidence for these assertions. You have such little information in your brain about the incident but you come to such conclusions somehow?. Breaking a contract only happens if you are not released from the contract. Puma was released from his contract by request. Also, consider that a player of puma's calibur might not have even been making a salary. $0 vs a steady income. If this is the case (which it may well not be, I'll admit), do people really want to see a top player like him be denied what he deserves?
Exactly. Which is why I'm asking all the EG condemners here why poaching is a bad thing (i.e. taking players w/out consulting TSL mgmt). So many pepole are saying it's bad but can someone plz tell me why it's bad?
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On July 21 2011 17:11 ineq wrote:
This is atleast more respectable than what SK did with MC an NaDa.
You mean going through the proper channels and making arrangements with the other team?
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On July 21 2011 17:09 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:07 Qaatar wrote:On July 21 2011 17:03 Bleak wrote:On July 21 2011 16:53 cENTRYZ wrote:On July 21 2011 16:47 Slakter wrote:
People still seem to think that Puma will benefit from this. Please tell me how. Sure, he will travel a lot of foreigner events and get a lot of money FOR A SHORT TIME. He can live off being amazing and talented for a few months now but after that he´s gonna dissappear as long as EG doesnt get him some good practice, which they cant if they dont put him in a korean house.
The fact that he´s a good player and that you guys are all happy EG picked him up isnt cus he´s korean, it´s cus hes gotten korean training, something he´ll lose now... This. This. This. Korea doesn't have something in the tap water and Koreans are not genetically modified to be good at Starcraft. EG is already installing a team house and they will practice a lot. Saying Puma will disappaer because foreigners can't practice is nothing but blatant elitism. That practice house in Sweden sure is doing wonders for TLO, Haypro, and crew, huh? I wonder why Naniwa wants to haul ass to Korea so fast, when he has such a great place. Naniwa wasn't invited... Also he's said long before the pro-house went up that he wanted to go to Korea. Way to make a completely stupid point...
Pretty sure he's also stated that he could have been invited had he wanted to. But, since he made up his mind already that he wanted to go to Korea, he wasn't invited - just like you said. Wow, stupid point, huh?
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On July 21 2011 17:10 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:08 SourD wrote:On July 21 2011 17:01 DystopiaX wrote:On July 21 2011 16:57 W2 wrote:
This is the beginning of the crumbling of Korean SC2 scene. Everything eventually comes down to money/funding, and Korean teams are already small in that aspect, not to mention they have to cover team house and expenses.
With FXO and TSL gone, I can envision the Korean scene being down to 1-2 teams monopolizing the whole region, much like what happened in Wc3. Those teams are the ones with all the big sponsors, and thus all the big players.
Hooray! We are one step further in killing off SC2 in Korea. Go Go Western e-sports! U S A U S A U S A!!! Alot of teams actually have mainstream companies backing them, so I wouldn't say they're smaller...would need to know more ofc. I know Prime has a chicken deal, which doesn't seem big to us but is like a major endorsment deal in Korea, and even then I'd prefer a mainstream company to sponser me than a niche gaming one like Razer/Steelseries (not that there's anything wrong with them, just seem like comparatively smaller fish) I disagree. being a korean, i follow korean SC2 scene alot. there is no mainstream sponsors as of now. (maybe intel on slayers? not sure) SC1 on the other hand, does have major sponsors backing them, making them very stable. Korea SC2 is very small at the moment and alot of teams are having hard time financially to keep them in one piece ( look at fOu team) in order to have stable SC2 scene in korea, there needs to be major companies backing them(samsung, korean air, shinhan bank..etc.) btw, Prime team's main sponsor, sabasaba chicken, did not renew their sponsorship after they expired and now Prime team is also without a sponsorship. Well Coca Cola is sponsoring IM now. But I'm not familiar with any others really. EG does have a mainstream sponsor as well. Monster.
From what I've heard Coca-Cola is just a product sponsor. Cases of soda don't provide too much stability in a team.
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Good for Puma, at least in the near term. Good for EG. In the long run, successful teams will have a mix of good and marketable players.
Doesn't sound like the way they went about it was ideal though. What happens if OGS management's response is to pull MC from all live foreign tournaments and kick TL out of the team house for fear of foreign teams trying to poach their players? Or, since that's pretty ridiculous, if WeMadeFox pulls Moon from those tourneys and ends the F.United joint venture?
Even if EG was within their rights, would a courtesy call to TSL management have hurt? The outcome wouldn't have changed, but some of the bad blood might have been avoided.
At any rate, this will blow over within a week. Does this mean EG can bring Puma to Anaheim?
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On July 21 2011 17:09 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:08 taLbuk wrote:On July 21 2011 17:06 eggs wrote:On July 21 2011 17:04 taLbuk wrote:On July 21 2011 17:02 zeru wrote:On July 21 2011 17:02 blade55555 wrote:On July 21 2011 17:00 zeru wrote:Dick move, but im not surprised since its EG. On July 21 2011 17:00 danbel1005 wrote:On July 21 2011 16:42 Talin wrote:
Nobody in EG won anything significant recently.
Oh... except Puma I guess. Heh. Oh you ignorant cutie pie. Let me educate u a bit. EG.IdrA "IPL Session 1 Champion"How does that qualify in ur head?... Haters gonna Hate. that was a US-invite only tourney. lol. MLG champion, last foreigner in the last MLG placing 4'th behind MC/losira/mma. Since when is getting 4th an achievement. getting 4th behind 3 koreans isn't an acheivment? not to mention the highest placing foreigner zerg at 6 outof the last 7 major tournaments he's been to? "highest placing foreigner zerg" reminds me of terrible wow guilds saying things like: US Alliance First Kill using a Druid MT on an RP server with Med-Low population! while i see your logic, you can't be telling me that being the highest placing foreign zerg in highly competitive international tournaments means your "doing bad" as the original quote infers. It's called expectations. People expect idra to win tournaments. He hasn't done that. Therefore he's doing bad.
From what i can see, nobody even said "doing bad" all i see is someone saying that players on EG havent won anything significant recently, which is a fact. Not that i care.. Just saw this quote chain and like how somebody pulled the words "doing bad" out to suit themselves.
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On July 21 2011 17:08 SourD wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:01 DystopiaX wrote:On July 21 2011 16:57 W2 wrote:
This is the beginning of the crumbling of Korean SC2 scene. Everything eventually comes down to money/funding, and Korean teams are already small in that aspect, not to mention they have to cover team house and expenses.
With FXO and TSL gone, I can envision the Korean scene being down to 1-2 teams monopolizing the whole region, much like what happened in Wc3. Those teams are the ones with all the big sponsors, and thus all the big players.
Hooray! We are one step further in killing off SC2 in Korea. Go Go Western e-sports! U S A U S A U S A!!! Alot of teams actually have mainstream companies backing them, so I wouldn't say they're smaller...would need to know more ofc. I know Prime has a chicken deal, which doesn't seem big to us but is like a major endorsment deal in Korea, and even then I'd prefer a mainstream company to sponser me than a niche gaming one like Razer/Steelseries (not that there's anything wrong with them, just seem like comparatively smaller fish) I disagree. being a korean, i follow korean SC2 scene alot. there is no mainstream sponsors as of now. (maybe intel on slayers? not sure) SC1 on the other hand, does have major sponsors backing them, making them very stable. Korea SC2 is very small at the moment and alot of teams are having hard time financially to keep them in one piece ( look at fOu team) in order to have stable SC2 scene in korea, there needs to be major companies backing them(samsung, korean air, shinhan bank..etc.) btw, Prime team's main sponsor, sabasaba chicken, did not renew their sponsorship after they expired and now Prime team is also without a sponsorship.
So...col.Prime.WE incoming?
Although, it's not surprising companies are having a hard time justifying e-sports sponsorships. Economic times are tough.
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I don't like to make generalizations, but Mr Lee's comments sound like he wants to have his cake and eat it too. He's perfectly happy to have foreign viewers, foreign season ticket holders and foreign prize money. Just as long as he doesn't have foreign competition for his players.
I find this assertion that EG is somehow a dirty organization pretty...let's go with amusing. Having rules like 'don't talk to so and so player' is only reasonable and enforceable if there is an overseeing body, and last time I checked, there is no United States of ESPORTS. If you had watched Live on 3 today, you would have heard plenty about that. For some reason some people have a vendetta against them.
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Lol at all the people trying to make idra out to be week player. Last time i checked most of his loses came for top Koreans, MMA, MC, Zeno ext. And as i recall most foreigners have trouble beating those koreans, idra being one of only a handful of foreigners though could reasonably be expected to take games off them. Still easily considered a top foreigner.
I agree though EG as a team is a lackluster foreign team, they win or lose thing based on how well idra does. Nice to see them add another S class player there roster, will make them a lot more competitive as a team.
And i will wait for an official statement before jumping to conclusions, it is the middle of the night here in the us. Things like this take time to prepare, i sure we will be seeing something in the next few days if not tomorrow with EG finds out this has been leaked.
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On July 21 2011 17:09 Ocedic wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:06 namste wrote:On July 21 2011 17:02 Black[CAT] wrote:
I'm asian. And from our view, Puma has no respect or dignity or class at the very least. Thank you for speaking in behalf of the entire race. Can't wait for what the other races have to say about this, hope they will release press releases soon- The ambassador of Asia has spoken.
Just wait a sec, us Caucasians haven't made a decision yet.
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On July 21 2011 17:09 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:05 densha wrote:On July 21 2011 16:58 Drxz wrote:On July 21 2011 16:51 densha wrote:
Ok, so EG's response to failing results is to snipe a Korean player. Why not, I dunno, put all those side projects on the side and actually set up a rigid practice schedule? A few custom games a day and the NA ladder are not going to keep you sharp.
Conversely, why would Puma really want to join a foreign team when foreign teams operate in a way that's directly opposed to increasing skill? What I mean is, is that most foreign teams are made up of a few players separated geographically. There just isn't the access to the high level practice partners and the type of training schedule needed to keep up with the Korean teams. Many recent tournament results bear this fact out.
Maybe he's tired of the practice schedule? Maybe he realizes he can cash in internationally right now without the need for constant practice? I just don't know.
Also, I'd just like to say how unprofessionally it appears EG went about this. It also appears they don't have much confidence in their own players and felt the need to seek out a top Korean in order to start winning tournaments again. I guess that's what happens when InControl has 8,000 side projects and IdrA just hates the game. Anyway, disappointing all around. Does IdrA hate the game? I don't remember him quoting that? do you have an inside source we should all know about? Here's the source: http://soundcloud.com/jcmoods/inc1It was a leaked discussion before a show Inc and Idra used to do. I quote "It's a f**ing terrible game". well, for idra, everything and everyone is terrible. i don't really take idra's words seriously...
This was said at LEAST five months ago.
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It's not "Korean culture" to contact the manager/coach first. It's global etiquette. Or at least that's how it is in the three cultures I grew up in: Korea, Canada and the US.
While the entire truth is unknown, the TSL coach makes it clear that he feels that PuMa was poached by EG. Sure, you might see more of Puma at foreign events, but this is by no means a progressive step for foreign-Korean relationships in SC2. If anything, Korean teams will be hesitant to have their players participate in future foreign events since this all went down after NASL.
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i feel bad for tsl. after losing two big names, and now this.
i'm sure they feel betrayed, eg not contacting them personally beforehand and puma, accepting their offer after all they have been through (TSL).
but who knows, maybe puma wasn't happy with tsl to begin with. shit happens, move on and gl to all.
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On July 21 2011 17:12 evoli wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:10 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 21 2011 17:08 SourD wrote:On July 21 2011 17:01 DystopiaX wrote:On July 21 2011 16:57 W2 wrote:
This is the beginning of the crumbling of Korean SC2 scene. Everything eventually comes down to money/funding, and Korean teams are already small in that aspect, not to mention they have to cover team house and expenses.
With FXO and TSL gone, I can envision the Korean scene being down to 1-2 teams monopolizing the whole region, much like what happened in Wc3. Those teams are the ones with all the big sponsors, and thus all the big players.
Hooray! We are one step further in killing off SC2 in Korea. Go Go Western e-sports! U S A U S A U S A!!! Alot of teams actually have mainstream companies backing them, so I wouldn't say they're smaller...would need to know more ofc. I know Prime has a chicken deal, which doesn't seem big to us but is like a major endorsment deal in Korea, and even then I'd prefer a mainstream company to sponser me than a niche gaming one like Razer/Steelseries (not that there's anything wrong with them, just seem like comparatively smaller fish) I disagree. being a korean, i follow korean SC2 scene alot. there is no mainstream sponsors as of now. (maybe intel on slayers? not sure) SC1 on the other hand, does have major sponsors backing them, making them very stable. Korea SC2 is very small at the moment and alot of teams are having hard time financially to keep them in one piece ( look at fOu team) in order to have stable SC2 scene in korea, there needs to be major companies backing them(samsung, korean air, shinhan bank..etc.) btw, Prime team's main sponsor, sabasaba chicken, did not renew their sponsorship after they expired and now Prime team is also without a sponsorship. Well Coca Cola is sponsoring IM now. But I'm not familiar with any others really. EG does have a mainstream sponsor as well. Monster. From what I've heard Coca-Cola is just a product sponsor. Cases of soda don't provide too much stability in a team.
I hadn't heard that.
EDIT: not saying you are wrong, just that its news to me. good to know
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On July 21 2011 17:09 Ocedic wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:06 namste wrote:On July 21 2011 17:02 Black[CAT] wrote:
I'm asian. And from our view, Puma has no respect or dignity or class at the very least. Thank you for speaking in behalf of the entire race. Can't wait for what the other races have to say about this, hope they will release press releases soon- The ambassador of Asia has spoken.
Laughing so much right now
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Something that is completely normal in sports happens. Uproar. What?
People need to ENTIRELY disregard the retarded concept that is "manner". There is a lot to be said about conducting oneself appropriately. But the twisted and backwards concept that is "manner" is a joke and needs to die.
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On July 21 2011 17:09 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:05 blade55555 wrote:On July 21 2011 17:04 Ocedic wrote:On July 21 2011 17:02 blade55555 wrote:On July 21 2011 17:00 zeru wrote:Dick move, but im not surprised since its EG. On July 21 2011 17:00 danbel1005 wrote:On July 21 2011 16:42 Talin wrote:
Nobody in EG won anything significant recently.
Oh... except Puma I guess. Heh. Oh you ignorant cutie pie. Let me educate u a bit. EG.IdrA "IPL Session 1 Champion"How does that qualify in ur head?... Haters gonna Hate. that was a US-invite only tourney. lol. MLG champion, last foreigner in the last MLG placing 4'th behind MC/losira/mma. Give it a rest you fanboy tool. Ah so saying that Idra has better results then other foreigners as fact is now fanboy? please get a grip. You are wrong, that's what makes it fanboyism when you state incorrect things as facts. Idra does not have better results than other foreigners. He may have good results, but thats about it. Sjow, jinro, whitera, naniwa, fenix all have better and more impressive results, hell even thorzain.
I have already said Jinro is up there. Fenix, naniwa, sjow, white ra do NOT have the results Idra have. I am sorry its fact.
Big tournaments:
Top 8 in every mlg but 1 for Idra
Won an MLG
qualified for every single GSL tournament
made ro8 code S
Won IPL season 1 (I agree not the biggest deal sense there were no EU players)
Jinro:
Won an MLG (hasn't played any others unless I am mistaken?)
Made semi finals in GSL code S twice in a row (very impressive)
Made ro16 code S (I believe dont' know for sure?)
So far I would say idra/jinro have same accomplishments in major tournaments (Jinro making semi finals twice in a row was amazing). But Idra is still more consistent as he almost always makes it far in big tournaments.
Huk is getting to jinro/idra in achievements.
Huk:
ro8 code A
Qualified for code S
Ro16 code S
won an MLG
Won dreamhack
won homestory cup
Those 3 are imo the 3 "best" foreigners in terms of achievements (thorzain only has TSL 3 win how is that better accomplishments then idra/jinro/huk?).
Do note I am going by results which Idra is like I have said more consistent and has better results then Jinro, especially as of late, Huk has been crushing lately. As far as I know fenix has never won a big tournament, white ra doesn't have any big tournament wins either and naniwa only has 1 MLG won.
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Puma leaves a TSL that is falling apart, the Koreans get to feel how it really is to want a GLOBAL star league and not only a "Korean takes foreign money while everyone else is watching".
Time to wake up Korea, shit just got real in the global economi. Will be very interesting to see what will come out of this. There has already been some talks in sweden about the need for some sort of global orgaisation for shit like this to get sorted out.
Now the koreans might also push in that direction, only good things can come out of this deal, and we haven't even heard EGs side of it yet.
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On July 21 2011 17:07 Dagobert wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:00 firehand101 wrote:
OMG... Did anyone elses brain blow up with the prospect of Puma and Idra being on the same team aswell?
With those two, along with incontrol and a bit of improvement from Demuslim and Machine, this team could own the GSTL! How far removed from reality are you?
LOOOOOOL
Maybe he was joking? Atleast, I hope he was.
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On July 21 2011 17:12 Bobble wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:09 Ocedic wrote:On July 21 2011 17:06 namste wrote:On July 21 2011 17:02 Black[CAT] wrote:
I'm asian. And from our view, Puma has no respect or dignity or class at the very least. Thank you for speaking in behalf of the entire race. Can't wait for what the other races have to say about this, hope they will release press releases soon- The ambassador of Asia has spoken. Just wait a sec, us Caucasians haven't made a decision yet.
Dude I told you just wait...
"No thats Sung Kim.
hes the ambassador (For America)
http://blog.angryasianman.com/2011/06/obama-officially-names-sung-kim-as.html
I shall await his response."
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EPT
