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I think we can all agree that Starcraft 2 is highly competitive. But does anyone ever feel like the culture and community of starcraft is too competitive? Oftentimes I'll have finished laddering for the day and just want to relax and play some no pressure, fun oriented group games, but all of my practice partners have no interest in anything like this.
I guess the question I'm presenting is if there is a place in the eSports community for casual gamers? Is there anyone else interested in just having friends who like to play starcraft for the fun of it instead of to always improve and always win?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing the competitive nature of the game, and I agree, you must have a certain competitiveness and drive to become top players and win money, and I love that, it's great. I love watching high level play. But is that all starcraft is good for?
Also, a question for the pros if any of them see this thread: Do you ever play starcraft for fun and to relax, or is it more just hardcore practicing?
Note: mods, I'm not sure if this is the right place for this. If it isn't, please move it :3
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I can't play SC without being really competitive. I have to win, it's in my nature, even if they are just fun games. I don't think this is weird, I would assume everyone feels this way so I don't think the community is too competitive.
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simple, find more people who have the same mindset as you...
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United States7483 Posts
Nobody has died yet over a SC2 match, we're not yet at the point where we need to start toning it down.
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I've encountered the exact opposite actually. Most of my friends would rather play customs games and casual 4v4s. They're a little insecure so I think they have trouble dealing with ladder fear and how painful it can be to lose 1v1s. I think it really just depends on the group that you find and if you want to play casual there are certainly places to do that.
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eSports is the exact opposite concept of casual gaming.
Someone should create a casual group so people can do whatever they want without being torn apart by the rabid competitive players.
I play the game for fun, not to get stressed by 10-lose streaks.
So no laddering for me. :/
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If you start flippin' tables, you know it's time to stop.
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If you were a casual gamer you wouldn't really care about your ladder statistics and such or you'd just jump in a icJUG custom and play with random people and try new builds for fun.
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So you're assuming your experience with practice partners is what all of us experience? I don't know about you but my friends are more than willing to either play some serious games or just sit back and fool around. Sounds like you need new practice partners.
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I love how competitive it is, but I hate how stressful ladder can be for me. I will go in feeling pretty happy, but after two games I will get really angry and apm spikes up and I will yell at everything. Sigh..
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play some monobattles! At least that's what I do when I'm about to start a tourney or feel like doing nothing compettive
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On July 12 2011 03:26 Jtn wrote:
So you're assuming your experience with practice partners is what all of us experience? I don't know about you but my friends are more than willing to either play some serious games or just sit back and fool around. Sounds like you need new practice partners.
That might be the entirety of the problem, you're right. I did want to gauge some of the feelings of the TL community too.
Does anyone know if a casual gaming community sort of akin to TL exists? Although, I don't want to be too casual. It seems like there should be some sort of balance.
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I think some people feel a bit too insecure about what league they're in and their match history showing losses, even if they don't play competitively. So I don't think it's the game itself that turns people off, but that someone is going to look at their record and laugh at them.
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I have the reverse problem, that none of my friends have the eye of the tiger. I have vastly outpaced my friends in skill and they know it, so they won't play with me. I am the ringer in team games as well.
But messing around should be part of playing the game as well. I like playing large team games or comp stomps with my friends, if only to use the units I dont get to control as much(mass archons, masses of DTs, exct). Plus it takes the edge off the game a bit to mess around.
Also, observing and coaching a buddy is a good way to take it easy, but also help them improve. Everyone misses larve injects and chronos and you can help them miss fewer.
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I don't even understand why people often use team games as examples of playing for fun. Losing due to circumstances beyond your control isn't fun. Sure, losing on your own isn't exactly super fun either, but at least then you have identified something to improve, and seeing yourself improve is fun.
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On July 12 2011 03:32 SentinelSC2 wrote:
I think some people feel a bit too insecure about what league they're in and their match history showing losses, even if they don't play competitively. So I don't think it's the game itself that turns people off, but that someone is going to look at their record and laugh at them.
Well that seems like an issue with the community. I don't think it's that huge of a problem, but if the community itself is so focused on losses that people are being turned off from the game, maybe the community should change a little bit.
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eSports and Casual are kind of mutually exclusive terms. Competitive is, by its very nature, not casual.
I also play Starcraft just to relax at the end of the day. But for me, snapping nerd necks is relaxing. It sucks when I lose, but I don't rage or flip out, it gives me something to think about it next time.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that it all depends on your mindset. Your practice partners probably think practicing 1v1 is relaxing. You obviously don't. You need to find a group of people (RL friends are usually good for this) who like to play UMS or casual team games.
As for your question to the pros, you can really apply that to any profession. Chances are, when you commit to 8+ hours a day training as a SC2 player, you use your free time to eat, exercise, go out, watch tv, and in general NOT play Starcraft. I don't think they would be a good demographic to poll for your particular problem.
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
Non competitive - i often play FFA with friends. If someone isn't in Voicechat he'll be the first victim of an all player worker attack right after the game starts xD
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I think that starcraft is just not really a good game for just chilling out and having fun, its too fast-paced and too complex for that. There are other games that can both be very competitive and very relaxed, games like Halo or LoL. Those are much more fun to play with friends to just have fun.
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I think it depends on your group of friends how you feel about it.
Personally I like doing 1v1's but when I want to relax I wanna play some team games, but sometimes playing with my friends gets tedius because they're all bronze league so the challenge of the team games is non-existent.
But then the players I know who are Diamond/master never want to play team games :/
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On July 12 2011 03:33 vrok wrote:
I don't even understand why people often use team games as examples of playing for fun. Losing due to circumstances beyond your control isn't fun. Sure, losing on your own isn't exactly super fun either, but at least then you have identified something to improve, and seeing yourself improve is fun.
You can try things youd never usually try 1v1
Just dont take them too seriously, do crazy things like mass raven
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I think that each person can play at their own level of competitiveness that they feel comfortable with. Those who NEED to win to have fun can practice practice practice while those who simply enjoy playing games and customs can do that as they please. That's what's so great about SC2, it appeals to both hardcore and casual... and everything in between.
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The passion that drives people's competitive fire is the same passion that drives innovation and excellence. While 'cutthroat' is an unfortunate byproduct, it is necessary.
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Whenever I start to get stressed out with laddering, I just cheese for 5-10 games. I'm likely to lose all 10, because I don't practice cheese and my timings are way off, but it's a good way to get a reset.
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The 1v1 ladder will always be the home of hyper-competitive play.
There's quite a large community of players who just play customs/team games/UMS, and they aren't necessarily out there to win every time.
As for being a fan of eSports, I don't even play Starcraft II anymore but I'm a big fan of watching it. There need not be any correlation with enjoying watching competitive play and participating in it.
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Too competitive is when you pull a Noel Brown (fighting game people will get this)
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Should there be a "casual games" channel in chat, or perhaps a casual gaming thread for people who want to find other people who will just play some no pressure matches with them? It'd be a little more social, and it would be sort of like the practice partner thread. Is there enough interest to warrant that sort of thing?
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Well I only play ladder, I can't see myself getting "too competitive" if anything ever feels like its going "too far" then just walk away from the monitor.
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On July 12 2011 03:57 DrBoo wrote:
Too competitive is when you pull a Noel Brown (fighting game people will get this)
Supposedly smoothviper was messing around with his wallet and such but I wasn't at 8otb that night so I dunno lol
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On July 12 2011 03:20 daowns wrote:
I think we can all agree that Starcraft 2 is highly competitive. But does anyone ever feel like the culture and community of starcraft is too competitive? Oftentimes I'll have finished laddering for the day and just want to relax and play some no pressure, fun oriented group games, but all of my practice partners have no interest in anything like this.
I guess the question I'm presenting is if there is a place in the eSports community for casual gamers? Is there anyone else interested in just having friends who like to play starcraft for the fun of it instead of to always improve and always win?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing the competitive nature of the game, and I agree, you must have a certain competitiveness and drive to become top players and win money, and I love that, it's great. I love watching high level play. But is that all starcraft is good for?
Also, a question for the pros if any of them see this thread: Do you ever play starcraft for fun and to relax, or is it more just hardcore practicing?
Note: mods, I'm not sure if this is the right place for this. If it isn't, please move it :3
It is nice to have some fun games but, some people are like that in real life. Me for example I love a kickabout in Football but the second it gets serious I have to win. I suppose you could relate that partially to Starcraft as in your "fungame" opponent makes a mistake that he told himself he never would and gets serious to make up for it?
Perhaps your practice partners are just serious people irl, or perhaps amazingly efficient.
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On July 12 2011 03:34 daowns wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 03:32 SentinelSC2 wrote:
I think some people feel a bit too insecure about what league they're in and their match history showing losses, even if they don't play competitively. So I don't think it's the game itself that turns people off, but that someone is going to look at their record and laugh at them. Well that seems like an issue with the community. I don't think it's that huge of a problem, but if the community itself is so focused on losses that people are being turned off from the game, maybe the community should change a little bit.
Yeah, every now and then you'll hear commentators say something jokingly about bronze league play, and the people who are in bronze watching the stream feel like they're being put down, and sometimes lose the will to try and get better.
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On July 12 2011 03:46 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 03:33 vrok wrote:
I don't even understand why people often use team games as examples of playing for fun. Losing due to circumstances beyond your control isn't fun. Sure, losing on your own isn't exactly super fun either, but at least then you have identified something to improve, and seeing yourself improve is fun. You can try things youd never usually try 1v1 Just dont take them too seriously, do crazy things like mass raven
Unfortunately I play zerg. Zerg can't really do things like that. The units are too one-dimensional and the ones that aren't is pretty much standard play to mass up. I've started randoming in team games to attempt to 'have fun' but I'm too bad with the other races to do crazy stuff like that without floating 3k.
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On July 12 2011 04:12 SentinelSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 03:57 DrBoo wrote:
Too competitive is when you pull a Noel Brown (fighting game people will get this) Supposedly smoothviper was messing around with his wallet and such but I wasn't at 8otb that night so I dunno lol
That and the power up event with the whole 2outta3 teams event that he bitched and complained bout to get turned into a 3outta5
When shit like that starts happening and people are trying to modify the rules and starting fights about stuff that's when competitive is too competitive.
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Not everyone has the same mindset. Some play for fun, others for the competition. If you want to play for fun then play it for fun. But just because lots of people play it for the competition doesn't make the game too competitive, i'm not even sure what that means.
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On July 12 2011 04:17 DrBoo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 04:12 SentinelSC2 wrote:On July 12 2011 03:57 DrBoo wrote:
Too competitive is when you pull a Noel Brown (fighting game people will get this) Supposedly smoothviper was messing around with his wallet and such but I wasn't at 8otb that night so I dunno lol That and the power up event with the whole 2outta3 teams event that he bitched and complained bout to get turned into a 3outta5 When shit like that starts happening and people are trying to modify the rules and starting fights about stuff that's when competitive is too competitive.
Well when it comes to 2/3 or 3/5 confusion and you're down sets in grand finals, I think that's mostly from "oh shit I'm about to not make money" as opposed to "I really want to beat this guy"
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I think it's too competitive when you actually get mad after the game and let out your anger on your surroundings, as in smash your keyboard when you play a 1v2 vs your noob friends and they 6pool/cannon rush you when you are hungover and you said you just want to play a casual macro game. The worst part is that you feel pretty stupid afterwards, especially when there was glass of water on the desk which spilled water all over the buttons so your Enter key wont properly.
Remember kids, we play SC because it is fun.
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Totally feel you.
There are times when I just want to relieve stress and do something I enjoy.
SC2 is not the game for that.
Anytime I hop on I just HAVE to win for the most part. Now granted I do like to win but I think that with the skill and dedication involved in getting good at this game and the ridicule involved with being junk at this game (forever bronze) the only people left are people with a highly competitive nature.
I do try to play fun games at times with my 2v2 but mainly that just involves just doing dumb strats and trying to have fun. But that normally doesn't last more than a few games 
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OP, could you clarify if you're asking why esports is so competitive, or starcraft is so competitive? If its as you worded, asking about esports, the question is pretty dumb. The very idea of esports is focused around competition. However, if you're asking about sc2, then I would say the vast majority of players are casual. You really shouldn't have any difficulty finding some casual games. Maybe try approaching someone other than your regular practice partners if you want some casual sc2 gaming.
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On July 12 2011 03:27 SoKHo wrote:
play some monobattles! At least that's what I do when I'm about to start a tourney or feel like doing nothing compettive
i even take monobattles seriously.
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i suffer from the same addiction as charlie sheen. it is #winning. i am bi-winning. i have to win here, there, and everywhere (kind of like greeny said in the 2nd post). anything less than winning isn't enough for me. that is just my competitive nature, i like to win period. and starcraft allows me to fulfill that. so i mean, it depends on the person really, some people play for fun--others play to win. honestly, i don't really enjoy playing sc2 as much as i do just winning... especially since i'm zerg lawl.
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On July 12 2011 04:20 Mr_Wo_Ot wrote:
I think it's too competitive when you actually get mad after the game and let out your anger on your surroundings, as in smash your keyboard when you play a 1v2 vs your noob friends and they 6pool/cannon rush you when you are hungover and you said you just want to play a casual macro game. The worst part is that you feel pretty stupid afterwards, especially when there was glass of water on the desk which spilled water all over the buttons so your Enter key wont properly.
Remember kids, we play SC because it is fun.
I get angry at games when I lose a bunch in a row its just natural human reactions to get upset when you have all that adrenaline built up from playing a bunch.
This is why you do what I do and buy a heavy bag and go punch out all your anger. Good way to get rid of all that adrenaline as well as build up some muscles at the same time.
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I just have two different sets of friends who play at completely different levels and I can split my serious gaming vs casual playing between them.
One set of 2-3 people I play with alot play at a high diamond/ low masters level and when they're on I'm often playing more serious 2v2 or playing 1v1 customs or 1v1 ladder.
On the other hand I know about 10 people who are silver/gold league level (maybe lower for a couple...) and when I'm playing with some of them we queue up some 4v4 and I mess around with builds that shouldn't work or do cute stuff like try and nuke everything forever, I still lose alot doing this but its not an angy loss cause I wasn't trying that hard in the first place.
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On July 12 2011 03:24 BearChocolate wrote:
I've encountered the exact opposite actually. Most of my friends would rather play customs games and casual 4v4s. They're a little insecure so I think they have trouble dealing with ladder fear and how painful it can be to lose 1v1s. I think it really just depends on the group that you find and if you want to play casual there are certainly places to do that.
Yes I totally agree. Most of my friends actually also just play for fun and are much more interested in custom and team games. :S
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I only have friends who want to "play for fun" instead of "practice to get better" ... =.=
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No, I think its great. I know I'll never be the next oGsMC or IMNestea, but I love the fact its competitive. Personally I'm a competitive person and I enjoy that you get back what you put into the game. Whether I'm the best in the world or just better than all my friends it's great to be able to look at the pros and just be amazed at the skill gap and entertained by how good they are.
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Welcome to Starcraft. Sure, pros and the like play UMS as well for cool down and for shits and giggles but considering there is more money in the mix now players are eager to try and get their piece of the cut.
All about the competition.
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I would go for a Monobattle 4v4, go Protoss and shout out Warp Prism. Continue to cannon rush while transitioning (yes, it's a 4v4 you can transition out of a cannon rush) into Warp Prisms which you then use to drop Probes behind their bases and... Cannon rush again!
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For those thinking 'competitive gaming too competitive i play for fun', well.. Competitive gaming becomes fun, over time. Through hard work and dedication, it is a lot more rewarding and fun to play competitively than casually. It just sucks at first. ^_^
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On July 12 2011 03:20 daowns wrote:
I think we can all agree that Starcraft 2 is highly competitive. But does anyone ever feel like the culture and community of starcraft is too competitive? Oftentimes I'll have finished laddering for the day and just want to relax and play some no pressure, fun oriented group games, but all of my practice partners have no interest in anything like this.
I guess the question I'm presenting is if there is a place in the eSports community for casual gamers? Is there anyone else interested in just having friends who like to play starcraft for the fun of it instead of to always improve and always win?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing the competitive nature of the game, and I agree, you must have a certain competitiveness and drive to become top players and win money, and I love that, it's great. I love watching high level play. But is that all starcraft is good for?
Also, a question for the pros if any of them see this thread: Do you ever play starcraft for fun and to relax, or is it more just hardcore practicing?
Note: mods, I'm not sure if this is the right place for this. If it isn't, please move it :3
I think what you are going to find in every game , and in many future things you do in your life this is just normal, there are many "sub-groups" of players,
Pro's
Semi'Pro
Wanabe'pro
Fun lovers
Achivement whores
Overcompetitive Fun whore
(The list goes on)
You have to take the bad with the good,
Yesterday i said GG left a game in masters .. Then i get a PM saying "Sorry your fucking shit it wasn't a gg" then when i replied "is there any need?" i was already put on ignore.
You just have to realise that asking such a general question doesn't really work. When the games main function (and by main function i mean its most used and respected) is ONE versus ONE there is a good reason that you will find many many competitive whores.
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Play custom games. Ladder will always be competitive because it is meaningful and affects your rankings. You can play custom 1v1s, team melee games, or perhaps minigames such as SotIS if you don't want any pressure.
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EPT
