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On July 11 2011 20:53 Haydin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2011 20:49 syllogism wrote:On July 11 2011 20:48 Demonaz wrote: I can't believe people are actually slating Sheth for this. This forum gets worse every day.
Its a personal decision and he can continue to grow as a player in USA or Korea, makes no difference. It's not an entirely personal decision considering he went there to play in a team league You're right. It's between him and his team, and not the teamliquid forums. Certainly, but that doesn't mean people can't think less of him for letting down his team, regardless of whether the team supports his decision
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His decision is understandable, the lifestyle in S.Korea doesn't fit everyone.
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On July 11 2011 20:55 syllogism wrote: Certainly, but that doesn't mean people can't think less of him for letting down his team, regardless of whether the team supports his decision
Nobody is saying people can't think less of him, but 1) Think carefully about how you express it, there is a world of difference between constructive criticism and flaming and 2) Do not ignore everything he is done in the past and allow one incident to overshadow that. As others have already pointed out, he is an extremely well-mannered, positive force within this community, a highly skilled and entertaining player, a great contributor to the TL Strategy forum and did a 24 hour livestream very recently for charity.
Forgetting those things when expressing your opinion about a person (which is what a lot of these posts are, they aren't judgments of the opinion, they're judgments of the person, ad hominem) will not lead to a reasonable discussion and is highly reactionary.
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On July 11 2011 20:53 [F_]aths wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2011 20:35 Haydin wrote: @TotalBiscut: It's great to see members of the SC2 community coming out to defend each other over this crap. I applaud you for that. But while Falco is being overly hostile, you do seem to not take personal criticism especially well. Why not just ignore this stuff? I like that TB stands up against the demons of stupidity. Sheth did a lot so far and will continue to do so. But here are some guys, sitting in their chair, enjoy their Diamond rank 5, and demand total devotion to Korean practice standard from Steth. That is just not right. Sheth should be supported no matter what. The extremely insightful postings he made on the strategy forums already justify it. We should show nothing but respect for Sheth. All his actions, his streaming, all he does for the community proves Sheth's extreme devotion. He is not only a great player (both regarding skill and manners), he is doing so much for us.
I don't care if people support him or not, it's the never ending judging of him and other pros that gets to me. Even some of the people that have supported him have presented incredible judgemental views of him, it's quite annoying.
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On July 11 2011 20:55 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2011 20:53 Haydin wrote:On July 11 2011 20:49 syllogism wrote:On July 11 2011 20:48 Demonaz wrote: I can't believe people are actually slating Sheth for this. This forum gets worse every day.
Its a personal decision and he can continue to grow as a player in USA or Korea, makes no difference. It's not an entirely personal decision considering he went there to play in a team league You're right. It's between him and his team, and not the teamliquid forums. Certainly, but that doesn't mean people can't think less of him for letting down his team, regardless of whether the team supports his decision
On July 11 2011 16:09 Sheth wrote: Hey there TL. I wanted to be the first one to explain this, but I guess Josh beat me to it.
Last time for Code A I didn't explain everything to the community and problems occurred, so this time I will! (Mostly =D )
I have thoroughly enjoyed my time in KR in the GOM foreigner house playing in both Code A and GSTL. I have had a great time with GSL and all of the wonderful people in Kor. Besides my team I've had the experience to be able to hang out with Tastlesss, Artosis and Torch. There are others of course, but hanging out with those three was a great time.
However there were things I was unaware of going into Korea. Several things that have kept me from staying for another Code A at this time and from even going back after NASL. First off I was hoping to have been able to learn Korean better, I bought Rosetta stone even, however in the GOM house there are no CD drives. Thus I couldn't do that and thus I was unable to go do things I had planned on. (I could have read a book on it, or went out of my way in my free time to do this, I just bring this up as something that was disapointing.)
Secondly I was expecting to stay here for a month (through all of GSTL) and then go home. However it turned out that there were no flights available from the team for me go go back after GSTL. I don't know how this happened (something to do with buying flights in bulk), but either way I wouldn't have been able to go home after GSTL to see my family for a week before MLG. This was something I had greatly looked forward to while in Korea. Having to stay away for another 2 weeks or so might not seem a big deal, and it wouldn't be for a lot of people however it was for me. I miss my family and friends quite a lot.
Thirdly just quite brutally honestly I'm not fit for staying with 10 other guys in a small area constantly for a month mixed in with random 12 hours flights back to America for things such as NASL and then MLG. Its just not something I enjoy at all and I would have put up with it were I able to at least visit home to recharge after GSTL.
I realize if anyone is to blame here its me, for not being able to stay in the team house like I had said I would for a whole month. I'm very very sad to have left my team in Korea to finish GSTL without me. This is a dick move. I get it. However try and put yourself in my shoes, that's the only defense I can offer. I will miss my team and the training quite a bit. I can go into plenty of excuses, but the main point is I'm leaving the GOM foreigner house to go home where I can have some privacy, stream more and be all around more relaxed. Those who saw me at NASL can tell I was stressed and tired, hopefully being at home for a while will fix that.
I will miss you in Korea team and if in the future I can find a way to live on my own in Korea and go to "work" at the GOM house for the day I'm sure I will try my best to do this. However for now I'm heading home to prepare for MLG in my own way. Hopefully you at TL the reader can respect this and if not I understand. I still have much love for FXO and ofc TL. <3 Sheth
You think less of this guy? Seriously? What the hell?
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Gutted for Seth, I was kinda hoping that the big names of FXO would stay out in Korea for a bit to really raise there game... and it would have given Seth lots of experiance playing in a televised tournament so he could help deal with his nerves on stage..
but GL in the future bro!
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On July 11 2011 20:58 gullberg wrote: His decision is understandable, the lifestyle in S.Korea doesn't fit everyone. Aye, he atleast went out there and tried it. It didn't work out for him, so that's that. Having said that, it's a shame he doesn't feel confortable to finish the GSTL and then leave Korea, but ohh well. *most* of us still love you sheth <3 (even if you're a slimy zerg)
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Privacy thing is definitely huge, i sure as hell couldn't live in a pro gaming house regardless of how cool my housemates were. Too much. When can i fap? This is serious. Hell the thought of having to share a room with anyone but a wife/girlfriend also kinda scares me. I haven't had to share a bedroom for 17 years, apart from silly things like family trips and stuff.
Still disappointing, but i can totally understand the decision now. Just gotta think about think think about it.
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When I was searching for a flat near my university I had to make the decision do I save money and move in with a friend of mine or do I spend like everything I earn on a flat I would have for myself. I decided for the second option, I may be able to go on vacation with friends or live together for 1-2 weeks but after that it can REALLY get on your nerves. Privacy is a big deal.
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On July 11 2011 21:00 nihlon wrote: I don't care if people support him or not, it's the never ending judging of him and other pros that gets to me. Even some of the people that have supported him have presented incredible judgemental views of him, it's quite annoying.
It's a very bothersome trait of the general SC2 community. Members are quick to leap on and tear apart the slightest thing, whether it be a player, an event, a caster, you name it. Why? Who knows, it's certainly not because they care that much about it, otherwise they'd be providing constructive criticism.
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Oh well unfortunately that pretty much cuts FXO's chances to win even one match to zero especially as they are against fOu and IM. Hope they prove me wrong though.
Wish all the best to Sheth in any case, if Korea wasn't for him, it wasn't for him simple as.
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On July 11 2011 21:00 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2011 20:53 [F_]aths wrote:On July 11 2011 20:35 Haydin wrote: @TotalBiscut: It's great to see members of the SC2 community coming out to defend each other over this crap. I applaud you for that. But while Falco is being overly hostile, you do seem to not take personal criticism especially well. Why not just ignore this stuff? I like that TB stands up against the demons of stupidity. Sheth did a lot so far and will continue to do so. But here are some guys, sitting in their chair, enjoy their Diamond rank 5, and demand total devotion to Korean practice standard from Steth. That is just not right. Sheth should be supported no matter what. The extremely insightful postings he made on the strategy forums already justify it. We should show nothing but respect for Sheth. All his actions, his streaming, all he does for the community proves Sheth's extreme devotion. He is not only a great player (both regarding skill and manners), he is doing so much for us. I don't care if people support him or not, it's the never ending judging of him and other pros that gets to me. Even some of the people that have supported him have presented incredible judgemental views of him, it's quite annoying.
Pro gamers aren't helpless babies that need to be coddled. You know the saying if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen?
Fact is if you're going to call yourself a professional and be a prominent figure in the community, then accept the responsibilities and criticism that come with it. I'm not saying Sheth deserves hate or anything, but to say that 'pros' are immune to criticism simply for being well known is pretty retarded.
By your logic, you aren't allowed to say a movie sucks unless you've made a blockbuster movie yourself?
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Well, looks like FXO is gonna get all-killed every match for the rest of GSTL.
Glad to have you back, Sheth!
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It's very understandable. It's tough for some people to constantly be around others in a small living space. Some people are fine with hanging out with people but like that they can go back home where they can recharge, relax, and have their privacy. Everyone's different.
For some people, it can be draining to always be around others without having some time for yourself.
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In a foreign country where you don't speak the language, shoulder to shoulder with 10+ guys you kinda know, in cramped quarters every day, when you don't have to be to continue making a living... I am sad we wont be seeing you on GSTL anymore, but I respect the choice to stay home.
I've been in a similar situation with work. Middle of nowhere in the mountains working with a few guys I knew online. I thought I could do it for 3 months, only lasted a month. I knew what I was getting into, and could have done it if I absolutely needed to, but homesickness and other factors really drains some people more than you probably think.
Good luck in future endeavors! Sheth fighting!
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On July 11 2011 21:06 Ocedic wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2011 21:00 nihlon wrote:On July 11 2011 20:53 [F_]aths wrote:On July 11 2011 20:35 Haydin wrote: @TotalBiscut: It's great to see members of the SC2 community coming out to defend each other over this crap. I applaud you for that. But while Falco is being overly hostile, you do seem to not take personal criticism especially well. Why not just ignore this stuff? I like that TB stands up against the demons of stupidity. Sheth did a lot so far and will continue to do so. But here are some guys, sitting in their chair, enjoy their Diamond rank 5, and demand total devotion to Korean practice standard from Steth. That is just not right. Sheth should be supported no matter what. The extremely insightful postings he made on the strategy forums already justify it. We should show nothing but respect for Sheth. All his actions, his streaming, all he does for the community proves Sheth's extreme devotion. He is not only a great player (both regarding skill and manners), he is doing so much for us. I don't care if people support him or not, it's the never ending judging of him and other pros that gets to me. Even some of the people that have supported him have presented incredible judgemental views of him, it's quite annoying. Pro gamers aren't helpless babies that need to be coddled. You know the saying if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen? Fact is if you're going to call yourself a professional and be a prominent figure in the community, then accept the responsibilities and criticism that come with it. I'm not saying Sheth deserves hate or anything, but to say that 'pros' are immune to criticism simply for being well known is pretty retarded. By your logic, you aren't allowed to say a movie sucks unless you've made a blockbuster movie yourself?
The issue isn't that people have negative opinions, or that pros can't be criticized. It's that people do it without an ounce of respect and in a pretty rude manner. It's why a lot of pros just don't want to engage with the community through the forums anymore. People are being assholes for no real reason, and it's taking away a really cool opportunity to engage more with major people in the SC2 community.
Yes, pros don't need to be coddled. They're called professionals fora reason. But the community doesn't have to be disrespectful jerks either.
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On July 11 2011 21:01 Goibon wrote: Privacy thing is definitely huge, i sure as hell couldn't live in a pro gaming house regardless of how cool my housemates were. Too much. When can i fap? This is serious.
The first question that pops in my head about living in a pro gaming house.
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Seriously, why do people think it's the Korean culture that allows Korean to bear with the poor living conditions while foreigners tend to shy away? For me, it is not a matter of culture, but of determination and a little bit of desperation.
Outside of Korea: "Oh, you play very good? Then come into our team!"
In Korea: "Oh, you play very good? Do you want to commit to living in our team house, under poor conditions and strict practice environment? No? Then we don't need you!"
Korean progamers are just more determined and maybe a bit more desperate, which is why they put up with these living conditions.
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On July 11 2011 21:16 JustPassingBy wrote: Seriously, why do people think it's the Korean culture that allows Korean to bear with the poor living conditions while foreigners tend to shy away? For me, it is not a matter of culture, but of determination and a little bit of desperation.
Outside of Korea: "Oh, you play very good? Then come into our team!"
In Korea: "Oh, you play very good? Do you want to commit to living in our team house, under poor conditions and strict practice environment? No? Then we don't need you!"
Korean progamers are just more determined and maybe a bit more desperate, which is why they put up with these living conditions.
I bet if you asked Koreans to live in a progaming house in the US, in a completely alien culture, away from their family and friends, not so many of them would take up the offer. Some people can handle a big paradigm shift in their lives, other people can't. Sheth couldn't, its a shame, but thats how it is.
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Sheth, I respect you more than any other player out there but I cannot support this decision that you have made. You have deprived a spot from many deserving players who have worked so hard and never achieved what you have gotten pretty easily, simply because you are a foreigner. Many other players would kill to get your Code A spot and yet you seem to give it up too easily. Sorry, but you have lost me as a fan.
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