"The smell of Kimchi And Garlic reaks even in an American tournament"
"This is live instead of replays right? Go ret! Hooray for LiquidRet, Jos de Kroon, our king of creep!!!!!"
"It's kinda sad to see an American tournament where the only only American in the round of 16 is Sheth. It's going to be hard to make it to the next round... Of the 16 players 9 are korean... It's highly likely the final 8 players will be all korean"
"Ahh this is the reason why Sheth didn't attend the other tournament'
"Of the 9 koreans in this tournament what bad luck is it that MC and Boxer meet in the first round T_T"
"Haha, it's likely everyone will be korean in the next round"
"Another all nighter it seems"
"If MOrrow was against a terran it would've been terrific, but to face July T_T He's gonna get rolled over"
"Hope Koreans win everything"
"I'm looking forward to moon!"
"Ahh Mc vs Boxer T_T"
"it's nice to see Koreans vs Non koreans"
"Mc Vs Boxers, seems like emperor's run ends here"
"Those kids in TL keep arguing Select should be seen as an American Player, if so Huk should be considered a Korean Players."
"KRSL?"
"It's called NASL, but looking at the koreans they should call it SKSL"
"Wow Morrow is using T vs July? I think July's ZvT is much better than TvZ"
"Moon just don't do any All-in's and you'll win"
"This isn't NASL, it's SKSL"
"Please nerf the koreans"
"The stream quality isn't that great"
"This is Korean All star tournament"
"Zenio T_T"
"Lol at Sen's first interview question. How does it feel to be the first non korean to make it to the next round"
"Wow unlike the koreans, Sen is pretty fluent in English"
"MC vs Boxer Dream match!"
"Nice, I hope Sen and at least White Ra can make it to the next round. If all the koreans make it, what's the point of having the tournament in USA?"
"Stupid Zenio"
"Alive's EMPs are..."
"Alive needs to improve his TvZ"
"Both Darkfoce and Alive are not that good"
"How did Alive even make it this far...."
Followed by lots of rage against TSL Alive and fanboys of him defending him...
«"Those kids in TL keep arguing Select should be seen as an American Player, if so Huk should be considered a Korean Players."» Made me laugh quite hard XD
I think it's funny how some of them wanted foreigners to win, kinda like TL. Assumed they just wanted all the Koreans to do well also. Day 2 comments are going to be more interesting IMO- Sen almost beating MC, July's games, etc.
This korea vs world thing makes me sick. I dont mind where the players are from. Allways rooting for the one that I find the most interesting.
Its called nasl not because there should be only north american players but because its hosted in north america. Its really disappointing that alot of TLers and even some progamers have a problem with the dominance of korean teams and players.
On July 11 2011 01:59 DystopiaX wrote: I think it's funny how some of them wanted foreigners to win, kinda like TL. Assumed they just wanted all the Koreans to do well also.
I think they just dont want the Koreans to humiliate the foreigners too much. lol
They probably still want Koreans to dominate..Just not to dominate. lol
"Those kids in TL keep arguing Select should be seen as an American Player, if so Huk should be considered a Korean Players."
spot on
I dunno if SeleCT has citizenship. If he does, he should be considered Korean-American. If he doesn't, he should be considered Korean, unless he himself wishes to ID as Korean-American. *shrug*
"Those kids in TL keep arguing Select should be seen as an American Player, if so Huk should be considered a Korean Players."
spot on
I dunno if SeleCT has citizenship. If he does, he should be considered Korean-American. If he doesn't, he should be considered Korean, unless he himself wishes to ID as Korean-American. *shrug*
No I meant spot on calling the people on TL arguing that kids.
It's obvious that Select is a Korean and Huk is a Canadian.
"Wow Morrow is using T vs July? I think July's ZvT is much better than TvZ"
Wow he really did that? shouldn't there have been a rule you have to stay the same race the whole time, unless the players agree? cus otherwise you might have prepared for a matchup your opponent wouldn't even play
"It's kinda sad to see an American tournament where the only only American in the round of 16 is Sheth. It's going to be hard to make it to the next round... Of the 16 players 9 are korean... It's highly likely the final 8 players will be all korean"
When they say american here, are they saying generally North America, or just america? Or are they saying NA tournament and then American sheth. <_>
Wow he really did that? shouldn't there have been a rule you have to stay the same race the whole time, unless the players agree? cus otherwise you might have prepared for a matchup your opponent wouldn't even play
Nasl mus allow race switching. Some tournaments do and some don't. I think it's pretty cool, but Morrow probably would have been better off staying as Zerg because July's ZvZ is really weak.
On July 11 2011 02:06 Poopi wrote: Are they being harsh to aLive because he is a korean losing to a foreigner, or would it be the same if he lost against Moon/July/another korean zerg?
Or maybe because those last 2 games vs Darkforce were extremely sloppy on both sides? Entertaining yes, but hardly the best technical games.
"Those kids in TL keep arguing Select should be seen as an American Player, if so Huk should be considered a Korean Players."
spot on
I dunno if SeleCT has citizenship. If he does, he should be considered Korean-American. If he doesn't, he should be considered Korean, unless he himself wishes to ID as Korean-American. *shrug*
No I meant spot on calling the people on TL arguing that kids.
It's obvious that Select is a Korean and Huk is a Canadian.
Everytime I read these I'm starting to think more and more that the koreans are just the same as us at least on the forums. Whiny and occasionally arrogant. Kinda brings us all more together I guess. I'm just used to these modest koreans we see in interviews.
"Those kids in TL keep arguing Select should be seen as an American Player, if so Huk should be considered a Korean Players."
spot on
I dunno if SeleCT has citizenship. If he does, he should be considered Korean-American. If he doesn't, he should be considered Korean, unless he himself wishes to ID as Korean-American. *shrug*
No I meant spot on calling the people on TL arguing that kids.
It's obvious that Select is a Korean and Huk is a Canadian.
Huk is American-Canadian.
it's korean-trained and foreign-trained... people are taking it too literally
"Those kids in TL keep arguing Select should be seen as an American Player, if so Huk should be considered a Korean Players."
spot on
I dunno if SeleCT has citizenship. If he does, he should be considered Korean-American. If he doesn't, he should be considered Korean, unless he himself wishes to ID as Korean-American. *shrug*
No I meant spot on calling the people on TL arguing that kids.
It's obvious that Select is a Korean and Huk is a Canadian.
Huk is American-Canadian.
Please just stop here. It's so pointless and dumb.
On July 11 2011 02:19 j3i wrote: I think "kids" was the proper term. Honestly, it's annoying how much pointless banter we have on these forums.
Meh i agree and disagree, when you have one hour gaps between games the conversation is bound to go a little OT, but some stuff that was said was indeed immature and pointless.
I agree, kids was a proper term. What's with calling Select an American? I thought he's just in America to study....
Well "kids" does not necessarily mean younger generation. They're just saying we're childish for calling a Korean an American and pretends to ignore his origin.
On July 11 2011 02:23 vpatrickd wrote: I agree, kids was a proper term. What's with calling Select an American? I thought he's just in America to study....
On July 11 2011 02:19 j3i wrote: I think "kids" was the proper term. Honestly, it's annoying how much pointless banter we have on these forums.
Meh i agree and disagree, when you have one hour gaps between games the conversation is bound to go a little OT, but some stuff that was said was indeed immature and pointless.
A little OT?
Some guys even complained that the actual LR was interfering with their meme posting >_>
I mean I am not a saint, but you know its bad when people are complaining about LRing in a LR thread as being distruptive to the conversation
On July 11 2011 02:23 vpatrickd wrote: I agree, kids was a proper term. What's with calling Select an American? I thought he's just in America to study....
Well "kids" does not necessarily mean younger generation. They're just saying we're childish for calling a Korean an American and pretends to ignore his origin.
no, kids in korean is almost always used generically to mean "young people" almost like youths but it's much more commonly used and refers to pretty much anyone who is of the younger generation
On July 11 2011 02:06 Poopi wrote: Are they being harsh to aLive because he is a korean losing to a foreigner, or would it be the same if he lost against Moon/July/another korean zerg?
Or maybe because those last 2 games vs Darkforce were extremely sloppy on both sides? Entertaining yes, but hardly the best technical games.
Didn't see the games, it's in the middle of the night for EU. Explain the comments but still Gonna stay awake for the final only.
On July 11 2011 02:23 vpatrickd wrote: I agree, kids was a proper term. What's with calling Select an American? I thought he's just in America to study....
On July 11 2011 02:23 vpatrickd wrote: I agree, kids was a proper term. What's with calling Select an American? I thought he's just in America to study....
He is korean citizen residing in the US.
Right on. So he is not American.
yeah.. but he IS trained in the american/foreign scene.
On July 11 2011 02:23 vpatrickd wrote: I agree, kids was a proper term. What's with calling Select an American? I thought he's just in America to study....
Well "kids" does not necessarily mean younger generation. They're just saying we're childish for calling a Korean an American and pretends to ignore his origin.
no, kids in korean is almost always used generically to mean "young people" almost like youths but it's much more commonly used and refers to pretty much anyone who is of the younger generation
I was saying it doesn't have to be younger generation, it can be something else. Of course, by all means, it can mean younger generation.... obviously. 0_0
On July 11 2011 02:23 vpatrickd wrote: I agree, kids was a proper term. What's with calling Select an American? I thought he's just in America to study....
Well "kids" does not necessarily mean younger generation. They're just saying we're childish for calling a Korean an American and pretends to ignore his origin.
no, kids in korean is almost always used generically to mean "young people" almost like youths but it's much more commonly used and refers to pretty much anyone who is of the younger generation
I was saying it doesn't have to be younger generation, it can be something else. Of course, by all means, it can mean younger generation.... obviously. 0_0
On July 11 2011 02:23 vpatrickd wrote: I agree, kids was a proper term. What's with calling Select an American? I thought he's just in America to study....
He is korean citizen residing in the US.
Right on. So he is not American.
yeah.. but he IS trained in the american/foreign scene.
Yeah, that's fine. We can call him being trained in the American scene.
Just don't call him an American. People are (obviously) going to assume you're talking about his nationality when you use words that always refer to nationality.
On July 11 2011 02:23 vpatrickd wrote: I agree, kids was a proper term. What's with calling Select an American? I thought he's just in America to study....
He is korean citizen residing in the US.
Right on. So he is not American.
yeah.. but he IS trained in the american/foreign scene.
Yeah, that's fine. We can call him being trained in the American scene.
Just don't call him an American. People are (obviously) going to assume you're talking about his nationality when you use words that always refer to nationality.
you call non-koreans foreign right? Technically, since starcraft is designed in the US, koreans are foreigners too. It's a TL term, people need to get over it and get with the program.
On July 11 2011 02:23 vpatrickd wrote: I agree, kids was a proper term. What's with calling Select an American? I thought he's just in America to study....
He is korean citizen residing in the US.
Right on. So he is not American.
yeah.. but he IS trained in the american/foreign scene.
There is where the debate always begins, just a miscommunication. When I think "Korean vs Foreigner" I dont think of the ethnicity but rather where they have been training. I dont think of the ethnicity because I dont think it makes a difference.. Koreans arent naturally better at RTS games...
Idra in SC1, Huk/Jinro in SC2, I felt the same way, while they arent "Korean" they are Korean trained.
Wow he really did that? shouldn't there have been a rule you have to stay the same race the whole time, unless the players agree? cus otherwise you might have prepared for a matchup your opponent wouldn't even play
Nasl mus allow race switching. Some tournaments do and some don't. I think it's pretty cool, but Morrow probably would have been better off staying as Zerg because July's ZvZ is really weak.
On July 11 2011 02:23 vpatrickd wrote: I agree, kids was a proper term. What's with calling Select an American? I thought he's just in America to study....
He is korean citizen residing in the US.
Right on. So he is not American.
yeah.. but he IS trained in the american/foreign scene.
There is where the debate always begins, just a miscommunication. When I think "Korean vs Foreigner" I dont think of the ethnicity but rather where they have been training. I dont think of the ethnicity because I dont think it makes a difference.. Koreans arent naturally better at RTS games...
Idra in SC1, Huk/Jinro in SC2, I felt the same way, while they arent "Korean" they are Korean trained.
Agreed. Select is an american player, while Huk and jinro right now are korean players.
Unless you want to call Select korean and huk canadian and jinro swedish just for their ethnicities so that you can cheer for them in that sense.
아이들 means children like little kids, and if the poster(s) used that word would be referring to others in a critical manner, implying immature.
However...
애들 which is actually a simplification of the word, loses that meaning and while it means the same thing can not be used critically. It simply means "those people (of the younger demographic)."
On July 11 2011 02:23 vpatrickd wrote: I agree, kids was a proper term. What's with calling Select an American? I thought he's just in America to study....
He is korean citizen residing in the US.
Right on. So he is not American.
yeah.. but he IS trained in the american/foreign scene.
Yeah, that's fine. We can call him being trained in the American scene.
Just don't call him an American. People are (obviously) going to assume you're talking about his nationality when you use words that always refer to nationality.
you call non-koreans foreign right? Technically, since starcraft is designed in the US, koreans are foreigners too. It's a TL term, people need to get over it and get with the program.
No I don't.
I think that term is completely wrong, since someone being called foreign implies that his counterpart is native. Which might have been true for the competitive scene in BW - there is none outside Korea - is not the same for SC2.
So as you correctly point out, it's wrong and people shouldn't use it. I won't advocate the wrong use of terminology just because "it's a TL term" to use it wrongly. I aim to improve things, not get with the program.
"Those kids in TL keep arguing Select should be seen as an American Player, if so Huk should be considered a Korean Players."
spot on
I dunno if SeleCT has citizenship. If he does, he should be considered Korean-American. If he doesn't, he should be considered Korean, unless he himself wishes to ID as Korean-American. *shrug*
No I meant spot on calling the people on TL arguing that kids.
It's obvious that Select is a Korean and Huk is a Canadian.
Huk is American-Canadian.
it's korean-trained and foreign-trained... people are taking it too literally
I was simply correcting him basing on his logic, I don't really want to get into the whole trained discussion, but even by his definition, Huk would be American-Canadian.
I personally think it's quite, your representation comes from where you were trained in addition to where you compete and were born.
So, Huk is an American-Canadian with Korean training competing in both Korea and the foreign scene, in this sense he represents a more unique case, you can call him anything you want, it doesn't fucking matter.
SeleCT is a Korean with North American training competing in both the North American and the rest of the foreign scene, the only thing Korean about him is his heritage, he both practices and competes mainly in the North American scene so this one's pretty easy.
At the end of the day... It doesn't fucking matter, these labels are absolutely idiotic to me.
On July 11 2011 02:23 vpatrickd wrote: I agree, kids was a proper term. What's with calling Select an American? I thought he's just in America to study....
He is korean citizen residing in the US.
Right on. So he is not American.
yeah.. but he IS trained in the american/foreign scene.
There is where the debate always begins, just a miscommunication. When I think "Korean vs Foreigner" I dont think of the ethnicity but rather where they have been training. I dont think of the ethnicity because I dont think it makes a difference.. Koreans arent naturally better at RTS games...
Idra in SC1, Huk/Jinro in SC2, I felt the same way, while they arent "Korean" they are Korean trained.
Agreed. Select is an american player, while Huk and jinro right now are korean players.
Unless you want to call Select korean and huk canadian and jinro swedish just for their ethnicities so that you can cheer for them in that sense.
On July 11 2011 02:23 vpatrickd wrote: I agree, kids was a proper term. What's with calling Select an American? I thought he's just in America to study....
He is korean citizen residing in the US.
Right on. So he is not American.
yeah.. but he IS trained in the american/foreign scene.
There is where the debate always begins, just a miscommunication. When I think "Korean vs Foreigner" I dont think of the ethnicity but rather where they have been training. I dont think of the ethnicity because I dont think it makes a difference.. Koreans arent naturally better at RTS games...
Idra in SC1, Huk/Jinro in SC2, I felt the same way, while they arent "Korean" they are Korean trained.
That's strange, I wonder why everyone always hyped up the games from Idra, Jinro and Huk as "Koreans vs foreigners" when all this time, they were just simple "Koreans vs Koreans" games like all the others.
If nationality doesn't matter, why are these games more hyped and anticipated than others?
"Those kids in TL keep arguing Select should be seen as an American Player, if so Huk should be considered a Korean Players."
spot on
I dunno if SeleCT has citizenship. If he does, he should be considered Korean-American. If he doesn't, he should be considered Korean, unless he himself wishes to ID as Korean-American. *shrug*
No I meant spot on calling the people on TL arguing that kids.
It's obvious that Select is a Korean and Huk is a Canadian.
Huk is American-Canadian.
it's korean-trained and foreign-trained... people are taking it too literally
I was simply correcting him basing on his logic, I don't really want to get into the whole trained discussion, but even by his definition, Huk would be American-Canadian.
I personally think it's quite, your representation comes from where you were trained in addition to where you compete and were born.
So, Huk is an American-Canadian with Korean training competing in both Korea and the foreign scene, in this sense he represents a more unique case, you can call him anything you want, it doesn't fucking matter.
SeleCT is a Korean with North American training competing in both the North American and the rest of the foreign scene, the only thing Korean about him is his heritage, he both practices and competes mainly in the North American scene so this one's pretty easy.
At the end of the day... It doesn't fucking matter, these labels are absolutely idiotic to me.
I think it matters actually. There is a sense of "team spirit" for lots of people which basically is the first indication that this is a real (e-)sport. People want to root for the underdogs or their nationality and I think this should be encouraged, but when people say things like Huk is the "hope" for foreigners, that actually is a bit sad... because in the end, that means only people who play in Korea has a chance, and that is exactly what the SC2 community does NOT need. We need to make sure that competitiveness can be developed outside of Korea, and a few shining lights are out there.
On July 11 2011 02:23 vpatrickd wrote: I agree, kids was a proper term. What's with calling Select an American? I thought he's just in America to study....
He is korean citizen residing in the US.
Right on. So he is not American.
yeah.. but he IS trained in the american/foreign scene.
There is where the debate always begins, just a miscommunication. When I think "Korean vs Foreigner" I dont think of the ethnicity but rather where they have been training. I dont think of the ethnicity because I dont think it makes a difference.. Koreans arent naturally better at RTS games...
Idra in SC1, Huk/Jinro in SC2, I felt the same way, while they arent "Korean" they are Korean trained.
That's strange, I wonder why everyone always hyped up the games from Idra, Jinro and Huk as "Koreans vs foreigners" when all this time, they were just simple "Koreans vs Koreans" games like all the others.
If nationality doesn't matter, why are these games more hyped and anticipated than others?
i dont want to beat this much further, so i'll stop here but I think it's kinda important to address. I think the longer you stay in a particular place, the more and more you will be associated with that scene (kinda like citizenship). I'm korean, but I was born and raised in America and though I'm fluent in korean, I would hardly label myself as a korean in the most literal sense. Jinro & Huk at the start were representations of a foreign scene, but now.. they are basically a korean scene (in my VERY humble opinion.) Idra, on the other hand, I'm starting to see him more and more as an American player (in my VERY humble opinion again)
On July 11 2011 02:06 Poopi wrote: Are they being harsh to aLive because he is a korean losing to a foreigner, or would it be the same if he lost against Moon/July/another korean zerg?
No, both Alive and Darkforce in those games looked like they didn't belong this far in the tournament, countless mistakes from both sides, oddly enough it's these mistakes from both that made the games semi-interesting and back/forth
On July 11 2011 02:01 zhurai wrote: we're "kids" now?
Have you taken a look around here lately? "kids" is pretty fitting
Wow he really did that? shouldn't there have been a rule you have to stay the same race the whole time, unless the players agree? cus otherwise you might have prepared for a matchup your opponent wouldn't even play
Nasl mus allow race switching. Some tournaments do and some don't. I think it's pretty cool, but Morrow probably would have been better off staying as Zerg because July's ZvZ is really weak.
I don't know. It's probably still his weakest match up, but he has been steadily improving for a while.
On July 11 2011 02:19 j3i wrote: I think "kids" was the proper term. Honestly, it's annoying how much pointless banter we have on these forums.
Meh i agree and disagree, when you have one hour gaps between games the conversation is bound to go a little OT, but some stuff that was said was indeed immature and pointless.
A little OT?
Some guys even complained that the actual LR was interfering with their meme posting >_>
I mean I am not a saint, but you know its bad when people are complaining about LRing in a LR thread as being distruptive to the conversation
This is sadly true. I remember at least once someone saying in the LR thread why the f*ck are people posting this lines about the games that we all can watch on the stream? And then some ranting and possibly offensive words to the LR'er....Im not exactly sure because I was o.O for a long time.....
"Those kids in TL keep arguing Select should be seen as an American Player, if so Huk should be considered a Korean Players."
spot on
I dunno if SeleCT has citizenship. If he does, he should be considered Korean-American. If he doesn't, he should be considered Korean, unless he himself wishes to ID as Korean-American. *shrug*
No I meant spot on calling the people on TL arguing that kids.
It's obvious that Select is a Korean and Huk is a Canadian.
Huk is American-Canadian.
it's korean-trained and foreign-trained... people are taking it too literally
I was simply correcting him basing on his logic, I don't really want to get into the whole trained discussion, but even by his definition, Huk would be American-Canadian.
I personally think it's quite, your representation comes from where you were trained in addition to where you compete and were born.
So, Huk is an American-Canadian with Korean training competing in both Korea and the foreign scene, in this sense he represents a more unique case, you can call him anything you want, it doesn't fucking matter.
SeleCT is a Korean with North American training competing in both the North American and the rest of the foreign scene, the only thing Korean about him is his heritage, he both practices and competes mainly in the North American scene so this one's pretty easy.
At the end of the day... It doesn't fucking matter, these labels are absolutely idiotic to me.
I think it matters actually. There is a sense of "team spirit" for lots of people which basically is the first indication that this is a real (e-)sport. People want to root for the underdogs or their nationality and I think this should be encouraged, but when people say things like Huk is the "hope" for foreigners, that actually is a bit sad... because in the end, that means only people who play in Korea has a chance, and that is exactly what the SC2 community does NOT need. We need to make sure that competitiveness can be developed outside of Korea, and a few shining lights are out there.
Yeah, but pretty much every top player has said that going to Korea is the way to get better after a certain point, so it's kind of weird situation. I'm sure foreigners can compete on some level but right now it seems like it's pretty accurate. Sure, I want to think that competitiveness can be developed outside of Korea, and there will be a handful of players that can sort of compete, but as many pros have suggested, in order to really win against them, you have to put in the effort or train with them.
Wow he really did that? shouldn't there have been a rule you have to stay the same race the whole time, unless the players agree? cus otherwise you might have prepared for a matchup your opponent wouldn't even play
Nasl mus allow race switching. Some tournaments do and some don't. I think it's pretty cool, but Morrow probably would have been better off staying as Zerg because July's ZvZ is really weak.
I don't know. It's probably still his weakest match up, but he has been steadily improving for a while.
Morrow kind of deserved it. I understand the logic that ZvZ is a toss up, but Morrow played his OFF race and gave July his strongest match up. Essentially, Morrow took a handicap and then buffed July's chances. Honestly, it was a bit of an insult to July to think that simply playing T would give him a better chance.
When people talk about certain ideas, they are with regards to a certain context. For example, when people say "you have a gay demeanor", they can be referring to a sexual context, or one relating to personality. When people say Thierry Heny is "French", they can refer to his culture, his nationality, his style of football, etc, but when they are referring to his "race" people refer to him as Black.
Unfortunately, many people either lack the willingness or the capacity, to interpret different statements in different contexts. They look for literal interpretations of every word to win an argument and increase the flock of their epenix, or that's just how their brain works. Sometimes there is a grey area that doesn't fit within strict definitions (is Obama really a black president?).
When someone says hongunprime sucks at sc2, people on this forum interpret it in many different ways. Does hongun suck in a Code S context? Does he suck in the GSL context? Does he suck compared to the average Grandmaster? .....And the forums will rage for dozens of pages as people argue completely different questions and talk past each other.
Anyway, the Foreigner/Korean debate is getting getting stale. Stop getting offended so easily, understand the people can be many different things at once, and know that people might be talking about ideas that use the same words, but in completely different contexts, and that ideas may be true in one context but not another ( "huk is american" "uh no he has a canadian passport" "NUH UH HE WAS BORN IN AMERICA" thread officially gone to shit)
Wow he Really did that? shouldn't there have been a rule you have to Stay the same race the whole time, unless the players agree? cus otherwise you might have prepared for a matchup your opponent wouldn't even play
Nasl mus allow race switching. Some tournaments do and some don't. I think it's pretty COol, but MorroW probably would have been better off staying as Zerg because July's ZvZ iSReally weak.
I don't know. It's probably still his weakest match up, but he has been steadily improving for a while.
MorroW kind of deserved it. I understand the logic that ZvZ iS a toss up, but MorroW played his OFF race and gave July his strongest match up. Essentially, MorroW took a handicap and then buffed July's chances. Honestly, it was a bit of an insult to July to think that simply playing T would give him a better ChAnCe.
MorroW isn't stupid. he saw flaws in July's zvt and he attempted to exploit them. don't forget that July is fresh off a zvz pwning of Sen at DH.
When someone says hongunprime sucks at sc2, people on this forum interpret it in many different ways. Does hongun suck in a Code S context? Does he suck in the GSL context? Does he suck compared to the average Grandmaster? .....And the forums will rage for dozens of pages as people argue completely different questions and talk past each other.
...
Stop getting offended so easily, understand the people can be many different things at once, and know that people might be talking about ideas that use the same words, but in completely different contexts, and that ideas may be true in one context but not another
I find it amazing that you can understand so well the problem, yet put the solution in the wrong place.
If you are misunderstood, that's a problem... with you, for not being explicit enough. If saying, "Player X sucks" always causes an argument and/or derails discussion, then fix that.
You can't change human nature; fighting against it is a fool's errand. You can change how you write online.
The solution is quite simple: don't write like that. Do not write online the way you would speak. Don't say that "X sucks" and expect everyone to be able to peer into your mind and divine exactly what that means. Try to see how your words might be misinterpreted before you post them, and then correct them so that they say exactly what you mean for them to.
On July 11 2011 03:08 TanGeng wrote: LR = Live Report
If you think about it, there is little need for actual text live reporting with the excellent streaming infrastructure of SC2 tournaments.
The ratio (~2% LR, ~98% discussion about the games and related topics) already reflects that.
Not everyone is free to stay in front a pc for hours, I work during weekends so i just check the LR threads on my phone. Same if im out for dinner with friends, at school or just being busy.
On July 11 2011 02:47 Huggerz wrote: SeleCT is on a student visa; he is Korean... why would anyone argue differently...?
The sad part is most people don't understand what casters etc. mean when they say foreigner or korean. They don't mean their nationality persay they mean where they practice and who they train with.
LiquidHuk is a American/Canadian citizen. He is also a korean in sc2. LiquidJinro is a sweed(to my knowledge don't know for sure) he is korean in sc2. oGsMC is a korean he is also a korean in Sc2. get it?
Dignitas.Select is korean in nationality but he is american because he trains here due to schooling. there is no question that he is korean.(at least i hope not otherwise...god people are stupid)
get it? its not a nation thing its a sc2 train area
The Scenes are what people are talking about not where they come from.
When someone says hongunprime sucks at sc2, people on this forum interpret it in many different ways. Does hongun suck in a Code S context? Does he suck in the GSL context? Does he suck compared to the average Grandmaster? .....And the forums will rage for dozens of pages as people argue completely different questions and talk past each other.
...
Stop getting offended so easily, understand the people can be many different things at once, and know that people might be talking about ideas that use the same words, but in completely different contexts, and that ideas may be true in one context but not another
I find it amazing that you can understand so well the problem, yet put the solution in the wrong place.
If you are misunderstood, that's a problem... with you, for not being explicit enough. If saying, "Player X sucks" always causes an argument and/or derails discussion, then fix that.
You can't change human nature; fighting against it is a fool's errand. You can change how you write online.
The solution is quite simple: don't write like that. Do not write online the way you would speak. Don't say that "X sucks" and expect everyone to be able to peer into your mind and divine exactly what that means. Try to see how your words might be misinterpreted before you post them, and then correct them so that they say exactly what you mean for them to.
Welp, I typed up an answer to his and everything, but I don't need to post it now.
Well said. People need to clarify their statements or people will [mis]interpret it with the most common connotation at hand. (i.e. saying someone sucks commonly means that he sucks (not that he sucks relative to this or that person that wasn't specified) or another one: saying someone is Korean commonly means that he is Korean (and not that he has been training in Korea)).
And then people usually start to argue when they realise that people misinterpreted their ambiguous statements in the most common way.
"Those kids in TL keep arguing Select should be seen as an American Player, if so Huk should be considered a Korean Players."
spot on
I dunno if SeleCT has citizenship. If he does, he should be considered Korean-American. If he doesn't, he should be considered Korean, unless he himself wishes to ID as Korean-American. *shrug*
No I meant spot on calling the people on TL arguing that kids.
It's obvious that Select is a Korean and Huk is a Canadian.
Huk is American-Canadian.
it's korean-trained and foreign-trained... people are taking it too literally
I was simply correcting him basing on his logic, I don't really want to get into the whole trained discussion, but even by his definition, Huk would be American-Canadian.
I personally think it's quite, your representation comes from where you were trained in addition to where you compete and were born.
So, Huk is an American-Canadian with Korean training competing in both Korea and the foreign scene, in this sense he represents a more unique case, you can call him anything you want, it doesn't fucking matter.
SeleCT is a Korean with North American training competing in both the North American and the rest of the foreign scene, the only thing Korean about him is his heritage, he both practices and competes mainly in the North American scene so this one's pretty easy.
At the end of the day... It doesn't fucking matter, these labels are absolutely idiotic to me.
Adding where he competes has no bearings on his roots.
On July 11 2011 03:08 TanGeng wrote: LR = Live Report
If you think about it, there is little need for actual text live reporting with the excellent streaming infrastructure of SC2 tournaments.
The ratio (~2% LR, ~98% discussion about the games and related topics) already reflects that.
Not everyone is free to stay in front a pc for hours, I work during weekends so i just check the LR threads on my phone. Same if im out for dinner with friends, at school or just being busy.
same, i love checking the LR threads and seeing what is going on live. I followed the MC games that way, being busy all day yesterday. If LR threads disappeared I would be a sad panda
On July 11 2011 02:47 Huggerz wrote: SeleCT is on a student visa; he is Korean... why would anyone argue differently...?
The sad part is most people don't understand what casters etc. mean when they say foreigner or korean. They don't mean their nationality persay they mean where they practice and who they train with.
LiquidHuk is a American/Canadian citizen. He is also a korean in sc2. LiquidJinro is a sweed(to my knowledge don't know for sure) he is korean in sc2. oGsMC is a korean he is also a korean in Sc2. get it?
Dignitas.Select is korean in nationality but he is american because he trains here due to schooling. there is no question that he is korean.(at least i hope not otherwise...god people are stupid)
get it? its not a nation thing its a sc2 train area
The Scenes are what people are talking about not where they come from.
I dont see how you can say that the casters do this. As far as I know the casters always see Jinro or Huk or Idra as a foreign hero, and they always address Select as a Korean. And that is the way I see it as well. Dont really care if different people experience it differently, but this is deffinatly not how the casters talk about the players.
"Those kids in TL keep arguing Select should be seen as an American Player, if so Huk should be considered a Korean Players."
spot on
I dunno if SeleCT has citizenship. If he does, he should be considered Korean-American. If he doesn't, he should be considered Korean, unless he himself wishes to ID as Korean-American. *shrug*
No I meant spot on calling the people on TL arguing that kids.
It's obvious that Select is a Korean and Huk is a Canadian.
Huk is American-Canadian.
it's korean-trained and foreign-trained... people are taking it too literally
I was simply correcting him basing on his logic, I don't really want to get into the whole trained discussion, but even by his definition, Huk would be American-Canadian.
I personally think it's quite, your representation comes from where you were trained in addition to where you compete and were born.
So, Huk is an American-Canadian with Korean training competing in both Korea and the foreign scene, in this sense he represents a more unique case, you can call him anything you want, it doesn't fucking matter.
SeleCT is a Korean with North American training competing in both the North American and the rest of the foreign scene, the only thing Korean about him is his heritage, he both practices and competes mainly in the North American scene so this one's pretty easy.
At the end of the day... It doesn't fucking matter, these labels are absolutely idiotic to me.
Adding where he competes has no bearings on his roots.
His roots have no bearing on how he plays, which fan-base he interacts with and the people he plays against or more importantly with.
This whole discussion is kind of silly because of all the angles, it doesn't matter what you classify these specific players as, if you want to call them Korean or North American, do whatever, there are arguments for both sides.
On July 11 2011 02:47 Huggerz wrote: SeleCT is on a student visa; he is Korean... why would anyone argue differently...?
The sad part is most people don't understand what casters etc. mean when they say foreigner or korean. They don't mean their nationality persay they mean where they practice and who they train with.
LiquidHuk is a American/Canadian citizen. He is also a korean in sc2. LiquidJinro is a sweed(to my knowledge don't know for sure) he is korean in sc2. oGsMC is a korean he is also a korean in Sc2. get it?
Dignitas.Select is korean in nationality but he is american because he trains here due to schooling. there is no question that he is korean.(at least i hope not otherwise...god people are stupid)
get it? its not a nation thing its a sc2 train area
The Scenes are what people are talking about not where they come from.
I dont see how you can say that the casters do this. As far as I know the casters always see Jinro or Huk or Idra as a foreign hero, and they always address Select as a Korean. And that is the way I see it as well. Dont really care if different people experience it differently, but this is deffinatly not how the casters talk about the players.
I've seen Select referred to as American by casters repeatedly, including at NASL finals.
On July 11 2011 02:23 vpatrickd wrote: I agree, kids was a proper term. What's with calling Select an American? I thought he's just in America to study....
He is korean citizen residing in the US.
Right on. So he is not American.
yeah.. but he IS trained in the american/foreign scene.
Well by a lot of peoples logic on here that makes him American. Seriously why is this still an argument? Even MC said in an interview recently that if foreigners practiced as much as koreans they would be just as good. This trying to claim good players for a certain country is getting a bit stupid.
Thanks OP, I always enjoy hearing the reactions to foreign players.
On July 11 2011 02:40 Crisco wrote: 아이들 means children like little kids, and if the poster(s) used that word would be referring to others in a critical manner, implying immature.
However...
애들 which is actually a simplification of the word, loses that meaning and while it means the same thing can not be used critically. It simply means "those people (of the younger demographic)."
this is correct. while it COULD have been used with a negative connotation, in this context, it is talking about us as a group of young people. the person posting that was likely older, and koreans are hugely concerned with age and age comes into play in many places you might not have even thought.
maybe OP could edit original post a little to avoid this becoming an issue with the community?
On July 11 2011 02:47 Huggerz wrote: SeleCT is on a student visa; he is Korean... why would anyone argue differently...?
The sad part is most people don't understand what casters etc. mean when they say foreigner or korean. They don't mean their nationality persay they mean where they practice and who they train with.
LiquidHuk is a American/Canadian citizen. He is also a korean in sc2. LiquidJinro is a sweed(to my knowledge don't know for sure) he is korean in sc2. oGsMC is a korean he is also a korean in Sc2. get it?
Dignitas.Select is korean in nationality but he is american because he trains here due to schooling. there is no question that he is korean.(at least i hope not otherwise...god people are stupid)
get it? its not a nation thing its a sc2 train area
The Scenes are what people are talking about not where they come from.
I dont see how you can say that the casters do this. As far as I know the casters always see Jinro or Huk or Idra as a foreign hero, and they always address Select as a Korean. And that is the way I see it as well. Dont really care if different people experience it differently, but this is deffinatly not how the casters talk about the players.
I've seen Select referred to as American by casters repeatedly, including at NASL finals.
That's what some people also have a problem with. The inconsistency in these claims. They want to have their cake, and eat it too.
Koreans living in America belong to "us". Americans living in Korea... also belong to "us". Basically, everyone belongs to "us" except if they're Koreans living in Korea.
It's like a milder form of the "everyone belongs to Team USA" troll.
On July 11 2011 02:47 Huggerz wrote: SeleCT is on a student visa; he is Korean... why would anyone argue differently...?
The sad part is most people don't understand what casters etc. mean when they say foreigner or korean. They don't mean their nationality persay they mean where they practice and who they train with.
LiquidHuk is a American/Canadian citizen. He is also a korean in sc2. LiquidJinro is a sweed(to my knowledge don't know for sure) he is korean in sc2. oGsMC is a korean he is also a korean in Sc2. get it?
Dignitas.Select is korean in nationality but he is american because he trains here due to schooling. there is no question that he is korean.(at least i hope not otherwise...god people are stupid)
get it? its not a nation thing its a sc2 train area
The Scenes are what people are talking about not where they come from.
I dont see how you can say that the casters do this. As far as I know the casters always see Jinro or Huk or Idra as a foreign hero, and they always address Select as a Korean. And that is the way I see it as well. Dont really care if different people experience it differently, but this is deffinatly not how the casters talk about the players.
I've seen Select referred to as American by casters repeatedly, including at NASL finals.
That's what some people also have a problem with. The inconsistency in these claims. They want to have their cake, and eat it too.
Koreans living in America belong to "us". Americans living in Korea... also belong to "us". Basically, everyone belongs to "us" except if they're Koreans living in Korea.
It's like a milder form of the "everyone belongs to Team USA" troll.
I think everyone is who they are. There is no us and them. That's just a legacy carried over from Broodwar in order to make people feel better about not having a scene like Korea and losing to them. We shouldn't be carrying over this offensive behaviour.
ps: This isn't BW bashing. I love BW and loved the foreign scene, it's just a Coping mechanism that was developed.
just look at music you usually have people arguing about which band belongs in which genre
even in biology, different systems of labeling ends up giving you different things in different groups
same thing in SC2, you've got people who label players by their nationality and people who label players by the scene in which they train. These two systems will always exist, and it doesn't make a difference whether you put somebody in one group when they can also belong in the other
I was hoping that Darkforce's performance would have gained him some fans on TL and some respect among Korean netizens, but from what's translated, they're just bashing him. >_>
I thought those were great games.
On July 11 2011 03:26 seoul_kiM wrote: "those kids in TL forums"
I wonder why they'd be saying that...I completely agree with that post...
1/2 of the arguments on these forums are about nationality and the other 1/2 of the arguments on these forums are about how bad the tournament
Also don't forget that 1/2 of the sentences aren't getting compl
On July 11 2011 03:56 Bobster wrote: I was hoping that Darkforce's performance would have gained him some fans on TL and some respect among Korean netizens, but from what's translated, they're just bashing him. >_>
I thought those were great games.
To be fair those games from Alive were terrible on both sides, which is what the comments seem to be directed at, not how well he did during the tourney.
On July 11 2011 02:47 Huggerz wrote: SeleCT is on a student visa; he is Korean... why would anyone argue differently...?
The sad part is most people don't understand what casters etc. mean when they say foreigner or korean. They don't mean their nationality persay they mean where they practice and who they train with.
LiquidHuk is a American/Canadian citizen. He is also a korean in sc2. LiquidJinro is a sweed(to my knowledge don't know for sure) he is korean in sc2. oGsMC is a korean he is also a korean in Sc2. get it?
Dignitas.Select is korean in nationality but he is american because he trains here due to schooling. there is no question that he is korean.(at least i hope not otherwise...god people are stupid)
get it? its not a nation thing its a sc2 train area
The Scenes are what people are talking about not where they come from.
I dont see how you can say that the casters do this. As far as I know the casters always see Jinro or Huk or Idra as a foreign hero, and they always address Select as a Korean. And that is the way I see it as well. Dont really care if different people experience it differently, but this is deffinatly not how the casters talk about the players.
I've seen Select referred to as American by casters repeatedly, including at NASL finals.
That's what some people also have a problem with. The inconsistency in these claims. They want to have their cake, and eat it too.
Koreans living in America belong to "us". Americans living in Korea... also belong to "us". Basically, everyone belongs to "us" except if they're Koreans living in Korea.
It's like a milder form of the "everyone belongs to Team USA" troll.
I think everyone is who they are. There is no us and them. That's just a legacy carried over from Broodwar in order to make people feel better about not having a scene like Korea and losing to them. We shouldn't be carrying over this offensive behaviour.
ps: This isn't BW bashing. I love BW and loved the foreign scene, it's just a Coping mechanism that was developed.
I agree with the Select is basically a foreigner since he's on NA, and Huk is basically Korean now since he's practiced on the KR server for so long.
That being said I still think all the "GO FOREIGNERS WE MUST NOT LOSE TO KOREANS" sentiment is kind of dumb. I can understand it from all the old BW people who are happy to see legit competition between us and the Koreans but most of the people making these comments got into the game from SC2 and it's always been about equal competition in this game, there's no reason we should have the same inferiority complex. Players are players and I wanna see the best win, whether they're Korean or not.
"Those kids in TL keep arguing Select should be seen as an American Player, if so Huk should be considered a Korean Players."
spot on
I dunno if SeleCT has citizenship. If he does, he should be considered Korean-American. If he doesn't, he should be considered Korean, unless he himself wishes to ID as Korean-American. *shrug*
No I meant spot on calling the people on TL arguing that kids.
It's obvious that Select is a Korean and Huk is a Canadian.
I know this is going to be like, the eternal stupid argument of this thread and I feel bad for contributing to it, but.
It's pretty obvious that Select is an American and Huk is a Canadian. Select is an American citizen and Huk is a Canadian citizen, AS FAR AS I KNOW.
When we're trying to figure out who's from where, it should be country citizenship that matters, not ethnicity or where they train.
On July 11 2011 03:56 Bobster wrote: I was hoping that Darkforce's performance would have gained him some fans on TL and some respect among Korean netizens, but from what's translated, they're just bashing him. >_>
I thought those were great games.
To be fair Darkforce played worse than any Korean Code A zerg, its just that Alive decided that micro wasn't needed to play terran.
"Those kids in TL keep arguing Select should be seen as an American Player, if so Huk should be considered a Korean Players."
spot on
I dunno if SeleCT has citizenship. If he does, he should be considered Korean-American. If he doesn't, he should be considered Korean, unless he himself wishes to ID as Korean-American. *shrug*
No I meant spot on calling the people on TL arguing that kids.
It's obvious that Select is a Korean and Huk is a Canadian.
I know this is going to be like, the eternal stupid argument of this thread and I feel bad for contributing to it, but.
It's pretty obvious that Select is an American and Huk is a Canadian. Select is an American citizen and Huk is a Canadian citizen, AS FAR AS I KNOW.
When we're trying to figure out who's from where, it should be country citizenship that matters, not ethnicity or where they train.
If that's true, then I'd immedately say he's American. I completely agree with your last sentence.
But afaik Select doesn't have the US citizenship. Or, at the very least, he has both - a dual citizenship, in which case I believe that it is up to him as what he wants to be referred to. Which, as he has stated numerous times now, is Korean.
On July 11 2011 03:56 Bobster wrote: I was hoping that Darkforce's performance would have gained him some fans on TL and some respect among Korean netizens, but from what's translated, they're just bashing him. >_>
I thought those were great games.
To be fair Darkforce played worse than any Korean Code A zerg, its just that Alive decided that micro wasn't needed to play terran.
I'm sorry but... you can't really micro marines vs speedbanes on creep.
"Those kids in TL keep arguing Select should be seen as an American Player, if so Huk should be considered a Korean Players."
spot on
I dunno if SeleCT has citizenship. If he does, he should be considered Korean-American. If he doesn't, he should be considered Korean, unless he himself wishes to ID as Korean-American. *shrug*
No I meant spot on calling the people on TL arguing that kids.
It's obvious that Select is a Korean and Huk is a Canadian.
I know this is going to be like, the eternal stupid argument of this thread and I feel bad for contributing to it, but.
It's pretty obvious that Select is an American and Huk is a Canadian. Select is an American citizen and Huk is a Canadian citizen, AS FAR AS I KNOW.
When we're trying to figure out who's from where, it should be country citizenship that matters, not ethnicity or where they train.
If that's true, then I'd immedately say he's American. I completely agree with your last sentence.
But afaik Select doesn't have the US citizenship. Or, at the very least, he has both - a dual citizenship, in which case I believe that it is up to him as what he wants to be referred to. Which, as he has stated numerous times now, is Korean.
This is some of playxp's forum comments(where main communication is going on) My English is not so fluent, but I hope you can feel what is really going on.
nasl is showing waiting room for players, mc is practicing and Jessica and boxer are watching mc, sleeping with the enemy ㄴand there are tastosis and his younger brother day9 ㄴSheth is cute
I thought westerner is punctual, it seems they aren't. 20 min passed. ㄴ NASL hasn't been broadcasting live cast before, they are not so experienced
NASL looks somewhat clumsy so far ㄴ this is season 1, you expect too much
Idra already out? when? looks like tough competitions
I recommand you guys go to sleep and wake up to watch mc vs boxer, but I don't think I can wake up... ㄴ I'm going to sleep after Ret's game ㄴ I'm going to watch Moon's game
GSL is best, they are really punctual, even OGN and MBCgame is not perfectly punctual.
NASL looks lousy since I watch GSL, Korea is the best eSport spot so far.
Is alive good at tvz? I don't see alive and zenio and boxer will advance ㄴ wow your prediction came out so perfect!
Nobody here is rooting for Ret except me? ㄴ I don't see Ret advance. Puma is the best promising rookies. I've seen Ret's play... no hope for him
I tried to watch HD, but it seems I have to pay, now I understand why foreigners pay for GSL
I've got up for NASL now, what's going on? ㄴ not started yet
I want to watch mc vs boxer! why not starting? ㄴ you'd better sleep now
No preparation ㄴ This is American style
I have to go sleep now, curse you yankees! ㄴ 2 hours delay, that's too bad
Zerg failed lol expo first vs 11/11 ㄴ This is Korean Terran's cheese!
2 hours delay and 5 min game!
Terran wasn't perfect, but zerg's reaction was so poor, He wasn't able to defend basic attack combination ㄴ It's not easy to beat hellion+vanshee when you go first zergling speed up
Wasn't Terran's that attck combination pretty basic?
2 hours waiting, game sucks.
Too long intro, are they going to show all player's all games?
I can see MLG is better
Wow sheth is good lol ㄴ Sheth is really good, even he can't deal with timing attack and cheeses well, he has Korean level macro, zvt seems unstable but zvp seems goo.... when I write this, he rushed into storm lol
Sheth has 4x probes and going to lose lol ㄴ He had not money for continuous dt harrassment and he couldn't pump out more units after one battle lost.
Sheth should've dropped baneling drop against units, not SCV's. Squirtle's mineral was almost out. ㄴ That's right. He dropped banelings too much against SCV's
Why does morrow play Terran? zvz is July's weakest matchup. July feels thank morrow. Thank you! ㄴ maybe morrow's worst matchup is also zvz? ㄴ If morrow did some cheese with Terran I would understand him but standard long game? it's ridiculous.
There's no cheese in NA server? They are watching GSL but why don't they cheese?
Morrow was Terran, he changed his race ㄴ His play show that's a good choice.
This is typical foreign Terran. Let zerg pump up drones as much as zerg wants! How dare Terran kill poor drones! ㄴ maybe they think it's a mean mind ㄴ Well-mannered Terrans
NASL shows sc2 scene is developing. I do ladder everyday and I feel people evolve everyday, but foreigners are just living fossil.
wow Moon's baneling tsunami lol
why Hasuobs hadn't single sentry at all? ㄴ Stalkers all-in
Moon is playing Nexus breaking lol
Moon is so dominating.
Sen will be foreigner's final hope.
If select beat white-ra, and zenio beat sen, it will be perfect KSL, nerf Koreans.
NASL has sound problem, my ears hurt. ㄴ I thought my speaker had problems...why didn't they fix it? ㄴ I thought I pop up two browsers lol
On July 11 2011 02:47 Huggerz wrote: SeleCT is on a student visa; he is Korean... why would anyone argue differently...?
The sad part is most people don't understand what casters etc. mean when they say foreigner or korean. They don't mean their nationality persay they mean where they practice and who they train with.
LiquidHuk is a American/Canadian citizen. He is also a korean in sc2. LiquidJinro is a sweed(to my knowledge don't know for sure) he is korean in sc2. oGsMC is a korean he is also a korean in Sc2. get it?
Dignitas.Select is korean in nationality but he is american because he trains here due to schooling. there is no question that he is korean.(at least i hope not otherwise...god people are stupid)
get it? its not a nation thing its a sc2 train area
The Scenes are what people are talking about not where they come from.
I dont see how you can say that the casters do this. As far as I know the casters always see Jinro or Huk or Idra as a foreign hero, and they always address Select as a Korean. And that is the way I see it as well. Dont really care if different people experience it differently, but this is deffinatly not how the casters talk about the players.
caster say what people want them to, therefore their gonna say that huk etc are foreigners hero, so the crowd is pleased, is it THAT hard? select is american in SC2 , korean in real life , huk is korean in sc2, not hard to udnerstand, than if your proud of your fellow citizen doing good in korea good for you.
This is typical foreign Terran. Let zerg pump up drones as much as zerg wants! How dare Terran kill poor drones! ㄴ maybe they think it's a mean mind ㄴ Well-mannered Terrans
hahaha. The outcry over reapers scarred him for life.
On July 11 2011 02:47 Huggerz wrote: SeleCT is on a student visa; he is Korean... why would anyone argue differently...?
The sad part is most people don't understand what casters etc. mean when they say foreigner or korean. They don't mean their nationality persay they mean where they practice and who they train with.
LiquidHuk is a American/Canadian citizen. He is also a korean in sc2. LiquidJinro is a sweed(to my knowledge don't know for sure) he is korean in sc2. oGsMC is a korean he is also a korean in Sc2. get it?
Dignitas.Select is korean in nationality but he is american because he trains here due to schooling. there is no question that he is korean.(at least i hope not otherwise...god people are stupid)
get it? its not a nation thing its a sc2 train area
The Scenes are what people are talking about not where they come from.
I dont see how you can say that the casters do this. As far as I know the casters always see Jinro or Huk or Idra as a foreign hero, and they always address Select as a Korean. And that is the way I see it as well. Dont really care if different people experience it differently, but this is deffinatly not how the casters talk about the players.
I've seen Select referred to as American by casters repeatedly, including at NASL finals.
That's what some people also have a problem with. The inconsistency in these claims. They want to have their cake, and eat it too.
Koreans living in America belong to "us". Americans living in Korea... also belong to "us". Basically, everyone belongs to "us" except if they're Koreans living in Korea.
It's like a milder form of the "everyone belongs to Team USA" troll.
No offense, but I think one of the few people who is honestly confused by this. One would have to be an idiot to think that the statement "Huk is Korean" in the context of SC2 means to say that Huk is literally a Korean National. I think people are smart enough to tell the difference.
The thing I don't get, is what's wrong with the NASL being dominated by Koreans? It's hosted in NA, that's the important part, if NA isn't good enough then so be it.
On July 11 2011 09:33 SafeAsCheese wrote: OrangeMilkis - Wooju Lee Andddd the event is over the Korean netizens go into fullblown criticism mode. Oh netizens....
Well to be honest, NASL deserved a LOT of criticism, but MLG was pretty bad, as was the first GSL, in it's first few attempts as well.
It has been proven that bad events can be drastically improved with experience.
On July 11 2011 09:33 SafeAsCheese wrote: OrangeMilkis - Wooju Lee Andddd the event is over the Korean netizens go into fullblown criticism mode. Oh netizens....
Well to be honest, NASL deserved a LOT of criticism, but MLG was pretty bad, as was the first GSL, in it's first few attempts as well.
It has been proven that bad events can be drastically improved with experience.
Also when Mikis poo poo's netizens, its because netizens have a reputation of being hyper critical of anything, everything could go right and they would still find something to complain about.
I translated this in NASL Grand Finals Day 3 thread, but I think it's more appropriate here.
Someone from playxp wrote a clever analysis of GSL Finals failure compare to NASL Finals:
"In GSL, after the quarter-finals, the time given to prepare is just too much.
With so much time to prepare, players come out with perfectly prepared build/timings.
However, when such build/timing fails, because it's just too perfectly planned out, we do not get a long intense game but rather one landslide victory.
Either win game 1 and win it all, or fail game 1 and lose it all.
Unlike the Finals we saw today(more skilled player coming on top), GSL Finals is more of Build Order fight.
But with drastic number of games like NASL format (many tightly scheduled games), it is unusual to be a build order fight. It will be a Finals of more skilled player coming on top, solely depending on players dedication and practice and talent.
And with such practice and commitment to the game, it will only result in Good Games."
On July 11 2011 09:33 SafeAsCheese wrote: OrangeMilkis - Wooju Lee Andddd the event is over the Korean netizens go into fullblown criticism mode. Oh netizens....
Well to be honest, NASL deserved a LOT of criticism, but MLG was pretty bad, as was the first GSL, in it's first few attempts as well.
It has been proven that bad events can be drastically improved with experience.
Also when Mikis poo poo's netizens, its because netizens have a reputation of being hyper critical of anything, everything could go right and they would still find something to complain about.
On July 11 2011 09:49 EntertainMe wrote: I translated this in NASL Grand Finals Day 3 thread, but I think it's more appropriate here.
Someone from playxp wrote a clever analysis of GSL Finals failure compare to NASL Finals:
"In GSL, after the quarter-finals, the time given to prepare is just too much.
With so much time to prepare, players come out with perfectly prepared build/timings.
However, when such build/timing fails, because it's just too perfectly planned out, we do not get a long intense game but rather one landslide victory.
Either win game 1 and win it all, or fail game 1 and lose it all.
Unlike the Finals we saw today(more skilled player coming on top), GSL Finals is more of Build Order fight.
But with drastic number of games like NASL format (many tightly scheduled games), it is unusual to be a build order fight. It will be a Finals of more skilled player coming on top, solely depending on players dedication and practice and talent.
And with such practice and commitment to the game, it will only result in Good Games."
그것이 실패하면 엎치락뒤치락의 결승다운 양상이 아니라 그냥 실패한쪽이 무난하게 발리는 게임이 나옴
1경기 이후 경기도 뭔가를 준비해왔는데 성공하면 무난한 승리, 실패하면 무난한 패배
결승답지 않게 빌드의 성패가 결과를 극단적으로 가르기 때문에
보는입장에선 1경기의 여부에 따라 흥망이 명확히 갈림
그러나 NASL처럼 일정이 비교적 빠듯하다면 매경기마다 뭔가를 준비하기보단
평소 연습량과 실력, 센스, 그리고 임기응변이 선수의 기량에 따라 적절히 구현되기 때문에 오히려 더욱 명경기나 나오는거 같음
"Two Koreans in GSL Finals = Bad Bad, Two Koreans in ANYWHERE ELSE Finals = EPIC!"
I definitely agree with this- how many finals have we seen where there's a cheese that would only work because they've studied the opposing player, and so they win, or players cut corners in builds because they know the other player never does a specific thing? The games we saw today weren't as refined but there was tons of action and excitement- Puma holding off MC's rush the last game, those clutch EMPs, etc. That said, NASL still has some work to do- the Koreans as well as TL both pointed out the sound issues, the delay at the start of the tourney, the long breaks in between games. Assuming that the sound issues are just first live-tournament jitters- and the sound issues did go away in the middle of the tourney only to come back at the end- the schedule still needs work. There's no reason for a 2 hour break for the semifinals when you have 5 casters rotating in and out and the players haven't played for hours. Even the quarterfinals could be more tightly scheduled, and honestly I didn't see a need for a third day other than because of delays and maybe for hype/tension.
Another thing that I think the NASL did well was just the tourney structure- knowing when certain players are going to be played. We see that a lot of netizens were tuning in just for specific matchups- MC and Boxer seem to stand out here (but then again they are just talking about the first day). With MLG, we know which Koreans are going to show up but we don't know which matches are going to be televised. This due to the tourney structure- with the open brackets you don't know who will be playing where- but for the group play at least you can say for sure that MMA, for example, will be playing at a certain time, and I think that people in general, especially Koreans, would be willing to wait and stay up to ungodly hours to watch the tourney like the Koreans did for NASL.
edit- this translation from orangemilkis's twitter made me lol: "In order for GSL to become truly global, they need to hire the blonde reporter from NASL" One thing that we complained about that the netizens didn't...lol.
On July 11 2011 09:33 SafeAsCheese wrote: OrangeMilkis - Wooju Lee Andddd the event is over the Korean netizens go into fullblown criticism mode. Oh netizens....
Well to be honest, NASL deserved a LOT of criticism, but MLG was pretty bad, as was the first GSL, in it's first few attempts as well.
It has been proven that bad events can be drastically improved with experience.
MLG improved by firing the guys that made it a disaster and actually got people who know what they're doing.. just saying. It's not just experience.
On July 11 2011 09:33 SafeAsCheese wrote: OrangeMilkis - Wooju Lee Andddd the event is over the Korean netizens go into fullblown criticism mode. Oh netizens....
Well to be honest, NASL deserved a LOT of criticism, but MLG was pretty bad, as was the first GSL, in it's first few attempts as well.
It has been proven that bad events can be drastically improved with experience.
MLG improved by firing the guys that made it a disaster and actually got people who know what they're doing.. just saying. It's not just experience.
Did they actually fire people over Dallas? I haven't heard that.
While I guess I wouldn't be surprised, they really made it sound like they just weren't prepared for all the things that happened at Dallas and were going out of their way to be overprepared for Columbus.
On July 11 2011 02:47 Huggerz wrote: SeleCT is on a student visa; he is Korean... why would anyone argue differently...?
Its a running joke in our NASL news that Select is now an American. We have plenty more of them planned too ;p
Yes he is Korean but his play style is that of a foreigner....to say his playstyle is Korean is to subtly hint that Starcraft 2 and genes are related, which it isnt.
Which is why we consider Select a foreigner in his play style, and HuK a korean in his play style (but Select is still Korean and HuK is still Canadian).
On July 11 2011 09:33 SafeAsCheese wrote: OrangeMilkis - Wooju Lee Andddd the event is over the Korean netizens go into fullblown criticism mode. Oh netizens....
Well to be honest, NASL deserved a LOT of criticism, but MLG was pretty bad, as was the first GSL, in it's first few attempts as well.
It has been proven that bad events can be drastically improved with experience.
MLG improved by firing the guys that made it a disaster and actually got people who know what they're doing.. just saying. It's not just experience.
Did they actually fire people over Dallas? I haven't heard that.
While I guess I wouldn't be surprised, they really made it sound like they just weren't prepared for all the things that happened at Dallas and were going out of their way to be overprepared for Columbus.
I'm like really certain I read someone from mlg saying they fired their tech team or something but I can't quite find the quote but I know at least that they hired new people:
On July 11 2011 09:33 SafeAsCheese wrote: OrangeMilkis - Wooju Lee Andddd the event is over the Korean netizens go into fullblown criticism mode. Oh netizens....
Well to be honest, NASL deserved a LOT of criticism, but MLG was pretty bad, as was the first GSL, in it's first few attempts as well.
It has been proven that bad events can be drastically improved with experience.
MLG improved by firing the guys that made it a disaster and actually got people who know what they're doing.. just saying. It's not just experience.
Did they actually fire people over Dallas? I haven't heard that.
While I guess I wouldn't be surprised, they really made it sound like they just weren't prepared for all the things that happened at Dallas and were going out of their way to be overprepared for Columbus.
I'm like really certain I read someone from mlg saying they fired their tech team or something but I can't quite find the quote but I know at least that they hired new people:
"They also added booths, a second stream, and that company that streamed the royal wedding"
It would be very unusual to fire a whole tech team. If anything some manager may be fired or demoted. It would simply take too long to retrain a completely new tech team on existing systems. Technology is complicated, 'nuff said.
On the other hand, if the tech team was a subcontractor, this could be reasonable.
On July 11 2011 09:33 SafeAsCheese wrote: OrangeMilkis - Wooju Lee Andddd the event is over the Korean netizens go into fullblown criticism mode. Oh netizens....
Well to be honest, NASL deserved a LOT of criticism, but MLG was pretty bad, as was the first GSL, in it's first few attempts as well.
It has been proven that bad events can be drastically improved with experience.
MLG improved by firing the guys that made it a disaster and actually got people who know what they're doing.. just saying. It's not just experience.
Did they actually fire people over Dallas? I haven't heard that.
While I guess I wouldn't be surprised, they really made it sound like they just weren't prepared for all the things that happened at Dallas and were going out of their way to be overprepared for Columbus.
I'm like really certain I read someone from mlg saying they fired their tech team or something but I can't quite find the quote but I know at least that they hired new people:
"They also added booths, a second stream, and that company that streamed the royal wedding"
Well yeah, I knew what they did to prepare for Columbus and am an MLG membership holder. Not that it makes any difference to me if they fired people responsible for the disaster at Dallas, I just hadn't heard that at all.
On July 11 2011 02:23 vpatrickd wrote: I agree, kids was a proper term. What's with calling Select an American? I thought he's just in America to study....
He is korean citizen residing in the US.
Right on. So he is not American.
yeah.. but he IS trained in the american/foreign scene.
There is where the debate always begins, just a miscommunication. When I think "Korean vs Foreigner" I dont think of the ethnicity but rather where they have been training. I dont think of the ethnicity because I dont think it makes a difference.. Koreans arent naturally better at RTS games...
Idra in SC1, Huk/Jinro in SC2, I felt the same way, while they arent "Korean" they are Korean trained.
but when Huk won Dreamhack and Homestory, people (including day[9]) said it was the first major tournament won by a FOREIGNER where top Koreans are also competing
really the double standard are sometimes mind blowing
On July 11 2011 02:23 vpatrickd wrote: I agree, kids was a proper term. What's with calling Select an American? I thought he's just in America to study....
He is korean citizen residing in the US.
Right on. So he is not American.
yeah.. but he IS trained in the american/foreign scene.
There is where the debate always begins, just a miscommunication. When I think "Korean vs Foreigner" I dont think of the ethnicity but rather where they have been training. I dont think of the ethnicity because I dont think it makes a difference.. Koreans arent naturally better at RTS games...
Idra in SC1, Huk/Jinro in SC2, I felt the same way, while they arent "Korean" they are Korean trained.
but when Huk won Dreamhack and Homestory, people (including day[9]) said it was the first major tournament won by a FOREIGNER where top Koreans are also competing
really the double standard are sometimes mind blowing
As someone else has said already, Huk is a foreigner with korean training. Select is a korean with foreign training. When it comes to sc2, I think about how they are trained, so you know what my answer is. Both point of views work perfectly fine. Just depends on how you look at them.
When huk plays, he is representing the foreign scene in terms of national pride. In terms of how he gets his results, he is representing the korean training method. Not too hard of a concept to understand but some people are just incredibly thick.
On July 11 2011 02:23 vpatrickd wrote: I agree, kids was a proper term. What's with calling Select an American? I thought he's just in America to study....
He is korean citizen residing in the US.
Right on. So he is not American.
yeah.. but he IS trained in the american/foreign scene.
There is where the debate always begins, just a miscommunication. When I think "Korean vs Foreigner" I dont think of the ethnicity but rather where they have been training. I dont think of the ethnicity because I dont think it makes a difference.. Koreans arent naturally better at RTS games...
Idra in SC1, Huk/Jinro in SC2, I felt the same way, while they arent "Korean" they are Korean trained.
but when Huk won Dreamhack and Homestory, people (including day[9]) said it was the first major tournament won by a FOREIGNER where top Koreans are also competing
really the double standard are sometimes mind blowing
On July 11 2011 02:23 vpatrickd wrote: I agree, kids was a proper term. What's with calling Select an American? I thought he's just in America to study....
He is korean citizen residing in the US.
Right on. So he is not American.
yeah.. but he IS trained in the american/foreign scene.
There is where the debate always begins, just a miscommunication. When I think "Korean vs Foreigner" I dont think of the ethnicity but rather where they have been training. I dont think of the ethnicity because I dont think it makes a difference.. Koreans arent naturally better at RTS games...
Idra in SC1, Huk/Jinro in SC2, I felt the same way, while they arent "Korean" they are Korean trained.
but when Huk won Dreamhack and Homestory, people (including day[9]) said it was the first major tournament won by a FOREIGNER where top Koreans are also competing
really the double standard are sometimes mind blowing
Korean trained =/= Korean. Huk is a foreigner.
So Foreign trained =/= Foreign. Select is a Korean ?
On July 11 2011 12:29 sureshot_ wrote: Korean = Korean Trained + Korean Ethnicity
Foreign = Foreign Trained + Korean Ethnicity or Foreign = Korean Trained + Foreign Ethnicity or Foreign = Foreign Trained + Foreign Ethnicity
We're greedy and want anything with a hint of foreign in it to be classified as Foreign. In our defense Koreans are op.
Select is a korean representing foreign training. Huk is a foreigner representing korean training. It's not koreans > foreigners, it's Korean training > foreign training (which largely results with korean > foreigners). Thus huk > select. Why is this topic so difficult to understand when it's so damn simple/
On July 11 2011 11:08 SafeAsCheese wrote: Question - Were koreans able to watch NASL without lag?
I hear a lot of Europeans often get lag with justintv
Eu @ 1080p worked smooth for me
Almost never get any lag on JustinTV over here, even on 1080p (from other streams). Can watch European stuff too just fine (Homestory cup for example was flawless). However, sometimes streams just don''t work at all (confirmed by a few others living in Korea, too.) An example was that EG Cup tournament thing. Thankfully that's rare.
On July 11 2011 02:23 vpatrickd wrote: I agree, kids was a proper term. What's with calling Select an American? I thought he's just in America to study....
He is korean citizen residing in the US.
Right on. So he is not American.
yeah.. but he IS trained in the american/foreign scene.
There is where the debate always begins, just a miscommunication. When I think "Korean vs Foreigner" I dont think of the ethnicity but rather where they have been training. I dont think of the ethnicity because I dont think it makes a difference.. Koreans arent naturally better at RTS games...
Idra in SC1, Huk/Jinro in SC2, I felt the same way, while they arent "Korean" they are Korean trained.
but when Huk won Dreamhack and Homestory, people (including day[9]) said it was the first major tournament won by a FOREIGNER where top Koreans are also competing
really the double standard are sometimes mind blowing
Korean trained =/= Korean. Huk is a foreigner.
So Foreign trained =/= Foreign. Select is a Korean ?
On July 11 2011 12:53 ktimekiller wrote: foreigners trained in Korea are Koreans, I don't see how that is disputable
Because Ichiro and Pau Gasol aren't american.
Team USA consists of all foreigners and/or successful persons. This is the criteria for Team USA and once your in, you in. No Snitchin', No Bitchin'. That is the way Team USA Rolls.
*Foreigners are considered anyone who is not (by sometimes can be) Korean beyond a shadow of a doubt. Exceptions include Rain, FnaticRain, and Clide.
Koreans practise so much more than foreigners. It really doesn't matter if Koreans dominate the NASL cuz as long as there are quality games, it's all good!
On July 11 2011 02:23 vpatrickd wrote: I agree, kids was a proper term. What's with calling Select an American? I thought he's just in America to study....
He is korean citizen residing in the US.
Right on. So he is not American.
yeah.. but he IS trained in the american/foreign scene.
There is where the debate always begins, just a miscommunication. When I think "Korean vs Foreigner" I dont think of the ethnicity but rather where they have been training. I dont think of the ethnicity because I dont think it makes a difference.. Koreans arent naturally better at RTS games...
Idra in SC1, Huk/Jinro in SC2, I felt the same way, while they arent "Korean" they are Korean trained.
but when Huk won Dreamhack and Homestory, people (including day[9]) said it was the first major tournament won by a FOREIGNER where top Koreans are also competing
really the double standard are sometimes mind blowing
Korean trained =/= Korean. Huk is a foreigner.
So Foreign trained =/= Foreign. Select is a Korean ?
people cant have it both way
Select is a Korean, genius. He's here on a student visa. People seem to think he's a Korean-American because he has citizenship, but he doesn't.
So yes, the original analogy is correct. He's a Korean with foreign training. 90% of TL just calls his a foreigner because the word "foreigner" is much more broad and general than "Korean".
On July 11 2011 02:23 vpatrickd wrote: I agree, kids was a proper term. What's with calling Select an American? I thought he's just in America to study....
He is korean citizen residing in the US.
Right on. So he is not American.
yeah.. but he IS trained in the american/foreign scene.
There is where the debate always begins, just a miscommunication. When I think "Korean vs Foreigner" I dont think of the ethnicity but rather where they have been training. I dont think of the ethnicity because I dont think it makes a difference.. Koreans arent naturally better at RTS games...
Idra in SC1, Huk/Jinro in SC2, I felt the same way, while they arent "Korean" they are Korean trained.
but when Huk won Dreamhack and Homestory, people (including day[9]) said it was the first major tournament won by a FOREIGNER where top Koreans are also competing
really the double standard are sometimes mind blowing
Korean trained =/= Korean. Huk is a foreigner.
So Foreign trained =/= Foreign. Select is a Korean ?
people cant have it both way
Select is a Korean, genius. He's here on a student visa. People seem to think he's a Korean-American because he has citizenship, but he doesn't.
So yes, the original analogy is correct. He's a Korean with foreign training. 90% of TL just calls his a foreigner because the word "foreigner" is much more broad and general than "Korean".
Or 90% of TL calls him a foreigner because we don't care where a player is from, but rather what type of training he is representing. Example, people call huk a foreigner to back up the idea that "foreigners can keep up with koreans". Yes they can, but only with korean training. So it's not very representative of the foreign scene skill level at all, more so the korean level.
The last I heard nationality was what determined "Korean" or "Foreign" (as in, not Korean). And according to such things as the Olympics and general definition, nationality determines competition (if you're not born in Korea or without Korean citizenship, you cannot compete as a Korean national.)
This issue never would have occurred if you people just considered their nationalities like normal people instead of going into deeper details like their training location to label them as american, korean etc.
On July 11 2011 13:36 Cubu wrote: This issue never would have occurred if you people just considered their nationalities like normal people instead of going into deeper details like their training location to label them as american, korean etc.
Huk is a foreigner. But, hes training in korea... so hes korean. But, hes got foreigner friends... so hes a foreigner. But some of his friends are also korean... so hes korean again... but... AHHHH
Yea, go by nationality... seriously. Its easier and MAKES SENSE.
On July 11 2011 13:36 Cubu wrote: This issue never would have occurred if you people just considered their nationalities like normal people instead of going into deeper details like their training location to label them as american, korean etc.
It matters because being trained in America and Korea are drastically different
On July 11 2011 13:36 Cubu wrote: This issue never would have occurred if you people just considered their nationalities like normal people instead of going into deeper details like their training location to label them as american, korean etc.
It matters because being trained in America and Korea are drastically different
but it does change their entire nationality.... such a stupid argument lol
On July 11 2011 13:36 Cubu wrote: This issue never would have occurred if you people just considered their nationalities like normal people instead of going into deeper details like their training location to label them as american, korean etc.
It matters because being trained in America and Korea are drastically different
I understand why people might call Huk a Korean for that reason but really... just type out a few more words so people understand what you mean and we would be spared all this pointless discussion. If people mean "Korean trained"... say Korean trained. It's not that hard.
On July 11 2011 13:36 Cubu wrote: This issue never would have occurred if you people just considered their nationalities like normal people instead of going into deeper details like their training location to label them as american, korean etc.
It matters because being trained in America and Korea are drastically different
but it does change their entire nationality.... such a stupid argument lol
The point isn't that foreigners are genetically inferior to Koreans, it's the training regime. When Huk wins I don't see that as a win for foreigners I see that as a win for Korean training. Still waiting for 'Foreign' training to win a tournament (LAN).
On July 11 2011 02:00 clickrush wrote: This korea vs world thing makes me sick. I dont mind where the players are from. Allways rooting for the one that I find the most interesting.
Its called nasl not because there should be only north american players but because its hosted in north america. Its really disappointing that alot of TLers and even some progamers have a problem with the dominance of korean teams and players.
I can't agree with you more. It's a pity that even our beloved casters like Tastosis also embrace the Korea vs. World theme. During Sen's close games with MC, Artosis really downplayed MC's clutch decision making that pulled him through and instead emphasized Sen's near victory. This would be okay later on, but to say that right after MC's win is anticlimactic and ruins the high of a great series.
I also love the statement about Huk and Select. I guess in the end, maybe it's the player's decision to decide who the represent, similar to the World Cup and the Olympics.
On July 11 2011 02:00 clickrush wrote: This korea vs world thing makes me sick. I dont mind where the players are from. Allways rooting for the one that I find the most interesting.
Its called nasl not because there should be only north american players but because its hosted in north america. Its really disappointing that alot of TLers and even some progamers have a problem with the dominance of korean teams and players.
I can't agree with you more. It's a pity that even our beloved casters like Tastosis also embrace the Korea vs. World theme. During Sen's close games with MC, Artosis really downplayed MC's clutch decision making that pulled him through and instead emphasized Sen's near victory. This would be okay later on, but to say that right after MC's win is anticlimactic and ruins the high of a great series.
I also love the statement about Huk and Select. I guess in the end, maybe it's the player's decision to decide who the represent, similar to the World Cup and the Olympics.
edit: Grammar.
Sorry, but you don't just get to decide who you play for in the World Cup or Olympics. Nationality decides that. Which makes me wonder why this incredibly inane argument keeps popping up in threads all over these forums.
Haha, always fun to see it a bit from their perspective. Also, I see a lot of people mad about "those kids in TL" LOL, wonder how that netizen would react if he found out he just enraged hundreds of foreigner nerds ^^
On July 11 2011 09:49 EntertainMe wrote: I translated this in NASL Grand Finals Day 3 thread, but I think it's more appropriate here.
Someone from playxp wrote a clever analysis of GSL Finals failure compare to NASL Finals:
"In GSL, after the quarter-finals, the time given to prepare is just too much.
With so much time to prepare, players come out with perfectly prepared build/timings.
However, when such build/timing fails, because it's just too perfectly planned out, we do not get a long intense game but rather one landslide victory.
Either win game 1 and win it all, or fail game 1 and lose it all.
Unlike the Finals we saw today(more skilled player coming on top), GSL Finals is more of Build Order fight.
But with drastic number of games like NASL format (many tightly scheduled games), it is unusual to be a build order fight. It will be a Finals of more skilled player coming on top, solely depending on players dedication and practice and talent.
And with such practice and commitment to the game, it will only result in Good Games."
On July 11 2011 02:06 Poopi wrote: Are they being harsh to aLive because he is a korean losing to a foreigner, or would it be the same if he lost against Moon/July/another korean zerg?
Losing to a foreigner that is fairly unknown as well as sloppy play from both players throughout the game.
On July 11 2011 02:00 clickrush wrote: This korea vs world thing makes me sick. I dont mind where the players are from. Allways rooting for the one that I find the most interesting.
Its called nasl not because there should be only north american players but because its hosted in north america. Its really disappointing that alot of TLers and even some progamers have a problem with the dominance of korean teams and players.
I can't agree with you more. It's a pity that even our beloved casters like Tastosis also embrace the Korea vs. World theme. During Sen's close games with MC, Artosis really downplayed MC's clutch decision making that pulled him through and instead emphasized Sen's near victory. This would be okay later on, but to say that right after MC's win is anticlimactic and ruins the high of a great series.
I also love the statement about Huk and Select. I guess in the end, maybe it's the player's decision to decide who the represent, similar to the World Cup and the Olympics.
edit: Grammar.
Sorry, but you don't just get to decide who you play for in the World Cup or Olympics. Nationality decides that. Which makes me wonder why this incredibly inane argument keeps popping up in threads all over these forums.
Which is why all of England's top batsmen are South Africans right? ^_^
It's quite easy to get dual citizenship and choose which country to play for in World Cups. A lot of the smaller cricketing countries like Canada and Netherlands etc consists of a lot of expatriates.
That doesn't change where the players were born/grew up though, which determines their nationality imo. Huk is clearly not a Korean. Not by race, not by nationality.
On July 11 2011 09:49 EntertainMe wrote: I translated this in NASL Grand Finals Day 3 thread, but I think it's more appropriate here.
Someone from playxp wrote a clever analysis of GSL Finals failure compare to NASL Finals:
"In GSL, after the quarter-finals, the time given to prepare is just too much.
With so much time to prepare, players come out with perfectly prepared build/timings.
However, when such build/timing fails, because it's just too perfectly planned out, we do not get a long intense game but rather one landslide victory.
Either win game 1 and win it all, or fail game 1 and lose it all.
Unlike the Finals we saw today(more skilled player coming on top), GSL Finals is more of Build Order fight.
But with drastic number of games like NASL format (many tightly scheduled games), it is unusual to be a build order fight. It will be a Finals of more skilled player coming on top, solely depending on players dedication and practice and talent.
And with such practice and commitment to the game, it will only result in Good Games."
On July 11 2011 13:36 Cubu wrote: This issue never would have occurred if you people just considered their nationalities like normal people instead of going into deeper details like their training location to label them as american, korean etc.
It matters because being trained in America and Korea are drastically different
but it does change their entire nationality.... such a stupid argument lol
The point isn't that foreigners are genetically inferior to Koreans, it's the training regime. When Huk wins I don't see that as a win for foreigners I see that as a win for Korean training. Still waiting for 'Foreign' training to win a tournament (LAN).
You might be waiting for awhile. It's not like Koreans have some secret method of training or they get a memo from Blizzard about upcoming trends in the metagame. They just put more hours into it than most foreigners. And that's enough for them to dominate the scene like SC1 despite the game being much easier to play than SC1.
it's not a secret method of training, but it is a better method of training that has yet to be duplicated anywhere else in the world
therefore, training in korea, under the korean team system is better
some kid practicing on ladder 10 hours a day isn't going to improve as quickly as someone practicing against teammates, operating under a strict schedule. there's much more to it than time.
On July 11 2011 13:36 Cubu wrote: This issue never would have occurred if you people just considered their nationalities like normal people instead of going into deeper details like their training location to label them as american, korean etc.
It matters because being trained in America and Korea are drastically different
but it does change their entire nationality.... such a stupid argument lol
The point isn't that foreigners are genetically inferior to Koreans, it's the training regime. When Huk wins I don't see that as a win for foreigners I see that as a win for Korean training. Still waiting for 'Foreign' training to win a tournament (LAN).
You might be waiting for awhile. It's not like Koreans have some secret method of training or they get a memo from Blizzard about upcoming trends in the metagame. They just put more hours into it than most foreigners. And that's enough for them to dominate the scene like SC1 despite the game being much easier to play than SC1.
Idra is the only person who I could see winning a tournament lan (assuming he doesn't get matched up against MC every lan in the early stages)
But Idra rides his BW Korea training in mechanics, that's why he doesn't need to practice as much because "everyone is catching up" to his mechanics.
On July 11 2011 13:36 Cubu wrote: This issue never would have occurred if you people just considered their nationalities like normal people instead of going into deeper details like their training location to label them as american, korean etc.
It matters because being trained in America and Korea are drastically different
but it does change their entire nationality.... such a stupid argument lol
The point isn't that foreigners are genetically inferior to Koreans, it's the training regime. When Huk wins I don't see that as a win for foreigners I see that as a win for Korean training. Still waiting for 'Foreign' training to win a tournament (LAN).
You might be waiting for awhile. It's not like Koreans have some secret method of training or they get a memo from Blizzard about upcoming trends in the metagame. They just put more hours into it than most foreigners. And that's enough for them to dominate the scene like SC1 despite the game being much easier to play than SC1.
Idra is the only person who I could see winning a tournament lan (assuming he doesn't get matched up against MC every lan in the early stages)
But Idra rides his BW Korea training in mechanics, that's why he doesn't need to practice as much because "everyone is catching up" to his mechanics.
Naniwa, Thorzain and Sen all have bigger chances of winning major lans than Idra imho. Idra is way overhyped and his results have been pretty lackluster lately.
On July 11 2011 13:36 Cubu wrote: This issue never would have occurred if you people just considered their nationalities like normal people instead of going into deeper details like their training location to label them as american, korean etc.
It matters because being trained in America and Korea are drastically different
but it does change their entire nationality.... such a stupid argument lol
The point isn't that foreigners are genetically inferior to Koreans, it's the training regime. When Huk wins I don't see that as a win for foreigners I see that as a win for Korean training. Still waiting for 'Foreign' training to win a tournament (LAN).
You might be waiting for awhile. It's not like Koreans have some secret method of training or they get a memo from Blizzard about upcoming trends in the metagame. They just put more hours into it than most foreigners. And that's enough for them to dominate the scene like SC1 despite the game being much easier to play than SC1.
Idra is the only person who I could see winning a tournament lan (assuming he doesn't get matched up against MC every lan in the early stages)
But Idra rides his BW Korea training in mechanics, that's why he doesn't need to practice as much because "everyone is catching up" to his mechanics.
Naniwa, Thorzain and Sen all have bigger chances of winning major lans than Idra imho. Idra is way overhyped and his results have been pretty lackluster lately.
you can't judge a player from results only. look at puma: before NASL he must have been a nobody, because he won nothing? and what do you mean no results? 4th place and best foreigner in the last mlg? or is that to long ago?
On July 11 2011 13:36 Cubu wrote: This issue never would have occurred if you people just considered their nationalities like normal people instead of going into deeper details like their training location to label them as american, korean etc.
It matters because being trained in America and Korea are drastically different
but it does change their entire nationality.... such a stupid argument lol
The point isn't that foreigners are genetically inferior to Koreans, it's the training regime. When Huk wins I don't see that as a win for foreigners I see that as a win for Korean training. Still waiting for 'Foreign' training to win a tournament (LAN).
You might be waiting for awhile. It's not like Koreans have some secret method of training or they get a memo from Blizzard about upcoming trends in the metagame. They just put more hours into it than most foreigners. And that's enough for them to dominate the scene like SC1 despite the game being much easier to play than SC1.
Idra is the only person who I could see winning a tournament lan (assuming he doesn't get matched up against MC every lan in the early stages)
But Idra rides his BW Korea training in mechanics, that's why he doesn't need to practice as much because "everyone is catching up" to his mechanics.
Naniwa, Thorzain and Sen all have bigger chances of winning major lans than Idra imho. Idra is way overhyped and his results have been pretty lackluster lately.
you can't judge a player from results only. look at puma: before NASL he must have been a nobody, because he won nothing? and what do you mean no results? 4th place and best foreigner in the last mlg? or is that to long ago?
Yeah I know but tbh I've never been very impressed by his gameplay either. I mean it's good and definitely better than a lot of foreigners but it's not on a level higher like Denzil implied.
And as MLG Columbus goes, tbh he just got kind of lucky. He got through the pool play by winning against a not in shape MC. He even lost to Thorzain 0-2 in the pool play but got out as 1st in his pool anyway. Then he lost against MMA pretty bad, won against Slush 2-0 and then lost to MC 0-4. Not that impressive imo.
On July 11 2011 13:36 Cubu wrote: This issue never would have occurred if you people just considered their nationalities like normal people instead of going into deeper details like their training location to label them as american, korean etc.
It matters because being trained in America and Korea are drastically different
but it does change their entire nationality.... such a stupid argument lol
The point isn't that foreigners are genetically inferior to Koreans, it's the training regime. When Huk wins I don't see that as a win for foreigners I see that as a win for Korean training. Still waiting for 'Foreign' training to win a tournament (LAN).
You might be waiting for awhile. It's not like Koreans have some secret method of training or they get a memo from Blizzard about upcoming trends in the metagame. They just put more hours into it than most foreigners. And that's enough for them to dominate the scene like SC1 despite the game being much easier to play than SC1.
Idra is the only person who I could see winning a tournament lan (assuming he doesn't get matched up against MC every lan in the early stages)
But Idra rides his BW Korea training in mechanics, that's why he doesn't need to practice as much because "everyone is catching up" to his mechanics.
Naniwa, Thorzain and Sen all have bigger chances of winning major lans than Idra imho. Idra is way overhyped and his results have been pretty lackluster lately.
you can't judge a player from results only. look at puma: before NASL he must have been a nobody, because he won nothing? and what do you mean no results? 4th place and best foreigner in the last mlg? or is that to long ago?
Yeah I know but tbh I've never been very impressed by his gameplay either. I mean it's good and definitely better than a lot of foreigners but it's not on a level higher like Denzil implied.
And as MLG Columbus goes, tbh he just got kind of lucky. He got through the open bracket by winning against a not in shape MC. He even lost to Thorzain 0-2 in the groupstages but got out as 1st in his pool anyway. Then he lost against MMA pretty bad, won against Slush 2-0 and then lost to MC 4-0. Not that impressive imo.
Open Bracket != Group Stage IdrA started seeded in the Group Phase already. Other than that I agree IdrA is overrated by his fans but I guess that's what fans do, regardless of which player we are talking about .
On July 11 2011 13:36 Cubu wrote: This issue never would have occurred if you people just considered their nationalities like normal people instead of going into deeper details like their training location to label them as american, korean etc.
It matters because being trained in America and Korea are drastically different
but it does change their entire nationality.... such a stupid argument lol
The point isn't that foreigners are genetically inferior to Koreans, it's the training regime. When Huk wins I don't see that as a win for foreigners I see that as a win for Korean training. Still waiting for 'Foreign' training to win a tournament (LAN).
You might be waiting for awhile. It's not like Koreans have some secret method of training or they get a memo from Blizzard about upcoming trends in the metagame. They just put more hours into it than most foreigners. And that's enough for them to dominate the scene like SC1 despite the game being much easier to play than SC1.
Idra is the only person who I could see winning a tournament lan (assuming he doesn't get matched up against MC every lan in the early stages)
But Idra rides his BW Korea training in mechanics, that's why he doesn't need to practice as much because "everyone is catching up" to his mechanics.
Naniwa, Thorzain and Sen all have bigger chances of winning major lans than Idra imho. Idra is way overhyped and his results have been pretty lackluster lately.
you can't judge a player from results only. look at puma: before NASL he must have been a nobody, because he won nothing? and what do you mean no results? 4th place and best foreigner in the last mlg? or is that to long ago?
As Osk said, that he got 4th at MLG is just a quirk of their oddball system really. He wasn't exactly impressive, going 0-2 and 0-4 against the Koreans, 0-2 against Thorzain...His results at DH/HSC/NASL aren't good either.
I'd say HuK and Sen are already better foreigners, and with Thorzain/Naniwa etc going to Korea I think they'll surpass him pretty quickly too - if they haven't already.
He's been riding his macro gained from his time in Korea, pretty much, but now others are catching up and he's just not special anymore.
On July 11 2011 13:36 Cubu wrote: This issue never would have occurred if you people just considered their nationalities like normal people instead of going into deeper details like their training location to label them as american, korean etc.
It matters because being trained in America and Korea are drastically different
but it does change their entire nationality.... such a stupid argument lol
The point isn't that foreigners are genetically inferior to Koreans, it's the training regime. When Huk wins I don't see that as a win for foreigners I see that as a win for Korean training. Still waiting for 'Foreign' training to win a tournament (LAN).
You might be waiting for awhile. It's not like Koreans have some secret method of training or they get a memo from Blizzard about upcoming trends in the metagame. They just put more hours into it than most foreigners. And that's enough for them to dominate the scene like SC1 despite the game being much easier to play than SC1.
Idra is the only person who I could see winning a tournament lan (assuming he doesn't get matched up against MC every lan in the early stages)
But Idra rides his BW Korea training in mechanics, that's why he doesn't need to practice as much because "everyone is catching up" to his mechanics.
Naniwa, Thorzain and Sen all have bigger chances of winning major lans than Idra imho. Idra is way overhyped and his results have been pretty lackluster lately.
you can't judge a player from results only. look at puma: before NASL he must have been a nobody, because he won nothing? and what do you mean no results? 4th place and best foreigner in the last mlg? or is that to long ago?
Yeah I know but tbh I've never been very impressed by his gameplay either. I mean it's good and definitely better than a lot of foreigners but it's not on a level higher like Denzil implied.
And as MLG Columbus goes, tbh he just got kind of lucky. He got through the open bracket by winning against a not in shape MC. He even lost to Thorzain 0-2 in the groupstages but got out as 1st in his pool anyway. Then he lost against MMA pretty bad, won against Slush 2-0 and then lost to MC 4-0. Not that impressive imo.
Open Bracket != Group Stage IdrA started seeded in the Group Phase already. Other than that I agree IdrA is overrated by his fans but I guess that's what fans do, regardless of which player we are talking about .
Sorry, my bad, I meant of course group stages/pool play. Edited.
I agree with Idra thing. He has been getting worse longer he is away from Korea even with his changes in play vs P. But his teamhouse is soon to be made so maybe he will start getting better again.
Can't wait to see what the Koreans have to say about PuMa's performance against MC. Even though MC lost, seeing how he stepped up his game in g5+g6 made me realize what a true monster he is (yes, even though he lost). PuMa is like the shining ray of light which proved that could take down the monster.
On July 11 2011 09:49 EntertainMe wrote: I translated this in NASL Grand Finals Day 3 thread, but I think it's more appropriate here.
Someone from playxp wrote a clever analysis of GSL Finals failure compare to NASL Finals:
"In GSL, after the quarter-finals, the time given to prepare is just too much.
With so much time to prepare, players come out with perfectly prepared build/timings.
However, when such build/timing fails, because it's just too perfectly planned out, we do not get a long intense game but rather one landslide victory.
Either win game 1 and win it all, or fail game 1 and lose it all.
Unlike the Finals we saw today(more skilled player coming on top), GSL Finals is more of Build Order fight.
But with drastic number of games like NASL format (many tightly scheduled games), it is unusual to be a build order fight. It will be a Finals of more skilled player coming on top, solely depending on players dedication and practice and talent.
And with such practice and commitment to the game, it will only result in Good Games."
On July 11 2011 09:49 EntertainMe wrote: I translated this in NASL Grand Finals Day 3 thread, but I think it's more appropriate here.
Someone from playxp wrote a clever analysis of GSL Finals failure compare to NASL Finals:
"In GSL, after the quarter-finals, the time given to prepare is just too much.
With so much time to prepare, players come out with perfectly prepared build/timings.
However, when such build/timing fails, because it's just too perfectly planned out, we do not get a long intense game but rather one landslide victory.
Either win game 1 and win it all, or fail game 1 and lose it all.
Unlike the Finals we saw today(more skilled player coming on top), GSL Finals is more of Build Order fight.
But with drastic number of games like NASL format (many tightly scheduled games), it is unusual to be a build order fight. It will be a Finals of more skilled player coming on top, solely depending on players dedication and practice and talent.
And with such practice and commitment to the game, it will only result in Good Games."
그것이 실패하면 엎치락뒤치락의 결승다운 양상이 아니라 그냥 실패한쪽이 무난하게 발리는 게임이 나옴
1경기 이후 경기도 뭔가를 준비해왔는데 성공하면 무난한 승리, 실패하면 무난한 패배
결승답지 않게 빌드의 성패가 결과를 극단적으로 가르기 때문에
보는입장에선 1경기의 여부에 따라 흥망이 명확히 갈림
그러나 NASL처럼 일정이 비교적 빠듯하다면 매경기마다 뭔가를 준비하기보단
평소 연습량과 실력, 센스, 그리고 임기응변이 선수의 기량에 따라 적절히 구현되기 때문에 오히려 더욱 명경기나 나오는거 같음
"Two Koreans in GSL Finals = Bad Bad, Two Koreans in ANYWHERE ELSE Finals = EPIC!"
Wow this makes a lot of sense and seems pretty insightful.
How do you explain the TSL3 finals then?
IMO, the reason GSL finals have been so one sided is because one player is usually completely outclassed. I dont' think it's because of the time they have to practice at all.
TSL finals kinda prove this point - both players were at the same level and they got a tonne of time to prepare - then they give us one of the best sc2 series to date.
On July 11 2011 13:36 Cubu wrote: This issue never would have occurred if you people just considered their nationalities like normal people instead of going into deeper details like their training location to label them as american, korean etc.
It matters because being trained in America and Korea are drastically different
but it does change their entire nationality.... such a stupid argument lol
The point isn't that foreigners are genetically inferior to Koreans, it's the training regime. When Huk wins I don't see that as a win for foreigners I see that as a win for Korean training. Still waiting for 'Foreign' training to win a tournament (LAN).
You might be waiting for awhile. It's not like Koreans have some secret method of training or they get a memo from Blizzard about upcoming trends in the metagame. They just put more hours into it than most foreigners. And that's enough for them to dominate the scene like SC1 despite the game being much easier to play than SC1.
Idra is the only person who I could see winning a tournament lan (assuming he doesn't get matched up against MC every lan in the early stages)
But Idra rides his BW Korea training in mechanics, that's why he doesn't need to practice as much because "everyone is catching up" to his mechanics.
Naniwa, Thorzain and Sen all have bigger chances of winning major lans than Idra imho. Idra is way overhyped and his results have been pretty lackluster lately.
you can't judge a player from results only. look at puma: before NASL he must have been a nobody, because he won nothing? and what do you mean no results? 4th place and best foreigner in the last mlg? or is that to long ago?
Puma is not a nobody!!! Artosis saw him in the basement of pro-gaming house once