On July 05 2011 05:08 Eleaven wrote: Nobody seems to enjoy TvP ZvP or PvP therefore just remove protoss.
If you say "sc2" to somebody quite new, chances are they think of tvz, battle of micro and positioning and army trades.. rather than pvz or pvt where its "lol ill just wait for 20 mins till max"
No idea how to make protoss more enjoyable to watch though I random and always enjoy PvX(relaxing change of pace) but never enjoy XvP (frantic game of trying to do damage before its too late).
Damn this is quite balance whiney actually =-\ but the concern is genuine, i dont really know anybody who enjoys watching the protoss matchups, to the point where people actively stop watching tournaments when a P is playing
Really? lol. As a person who watched starcraft before I actually played it myself, I can tell you that protoss was the most fun race to watch. Freaking PvP was fun, when NOTHING else than "who has more collosus" was happening. When you're really new to the game, it's all up to personal preference, but personally, there was nothing I found cooler than siege tanks all firing at once crushing everything, collosus (which is a very cool looking unit if you havent had to deal with using/playing against it), banelings blowing stuff up and forcefields blocking off ramps for ages. So it's all personal preference.
I can also tell you that now, after actually having played the game for quite a while, having 2 accounts and playing as all races, I do still find protoss games to be more enjoyable than zerg games by far. Even ZvT isn't as interessting as PvT and PvZ imo. There's close to no variation, almost always the excact same stuff happens. Zerg goes hatch first, or pool hatch. Terran either 2raxes or goes early expand. Terran then proceeds to harass with hellions or does a timing push with tanks. Zerg tries to defend hellions, gets a third, or baneling busts. And so on. It's almost always the same stuff. Now, I'm not trying to say I hate watching TvZ, because I don't. I'm just trying to say that personally i enjoy PvT and PvZ more, so even though YOU don't enjoy them, doesn't mean that everyone else feels the same way.
Saying things like that is just ignorant. Just look at it, how many people watched the TSL finals, and loved them. How many people loved Idra vs MC at MLG, Huk vs moon, Huk vs Idra, MC vs Thorzain, Mc vs Losira.. And about every other game involving MC tbh :p Sure, there's been a bunch of fantastic TvZ's, but there's also been a bunch of fantastic PvX's.
Really wish people would stop spreading crap like "Everyone hates to watch X, EVERYONE" Even think a lot of people prefer PvP over ZvZ since the last patch.
so if i morph my corruptors to broodies in a bad location, instead of doing what a good player would do (demorphing losing 25% of cost the losing all the corrutpors to blink stalkers which can hunt down any retreating unit), that I can get all the money back from the morphing broodlord? thx. didn't know this.
note: i'm being sarcastic about the fact that by playing badly you are rewarded more than playing good. on a serious note though, thx for the tip i didn't know that, this case works similar to banelings as well i suppose, so demorphing banelings being atked by lings is bad.
the only change i agree with is when a pylon is sniped to not reset warpgate CD. seems like the other changes reduce the chance of a comeback when your in a bad position. if anything the game needs more mechanics to help the player whose on the loosing side not mechanics to make the guy with the advantage instantly win for doing something small.
On July 05 2011 05:20 Lennon wrote: Let's say it's mid-game and I'm warping in 7 stalkers to reinforce a 7gate push. 1x Stalker = 125/50 (min/gas) 7x Stalker = 875/350
That's 975/350 loss including the pylon. There's no reinforcement so the push is likely to fail and another 875/350 has to be spent at my base to rebuild those 7 stalkers again as well as waiting 32 seconds for the cooldown. That's ridiculously harsh just for a pylon snipe.
Harsh, but unwarranted? I mean, if you're greedy enough to put up a naked pylon and pray that the other player DOESN'T snipe it, doesn't that mean you're just basing the attack off of luck anyways?
Do you deserve such a safety net? I mean, if you are, in the example, 7 gate pressuring/all in ing. If you left some units to protect your pylon it wouldn't have happened anyway, while it would have weakened your push.
Other races deal with this the hard way by getting their reinforcements blocked off and sniped, Warpgate in itself is worth the units to protect a pylon or a Warp Prism, isn't it?
the game is balanced around the warp in mechanic already, so you cant just say protoss doesnt have to worry about reinforcements getting picked off. thats why gateway units are so freaking weak
Hm I agree that there should be some consequence to losing warping in units when the pylon dies, my 2 cents on the matter would be this:
1. Make Warp-ins cancel-able -> returns 75% resources and resets warpgate cool down. As you can use warping in units to block and they negate rush distance having the same cancel penalty as a building seems fair. Alternatively some rebate amount based on the damage taken of the warping in unit would be good so that you could cancel that zealot you warped in to block your ramp but the damage it absorbed would cost you. More complicated though.
2. On warp in pylon death, 100% resources returned for cancelled unit same as for a terran building however warpgate cool down not reset, you lost the pylon which was acting as your production facility, you shouldn't have that production available again instantly.
I think this would be a good middle ground, if you make a stupid warp in choice you have the ability to cancel it at a slight resource hit and get your cool downs back but if your pylon gets snipped you're punished for making bad choice.
Warping in Stalkers with Warp Prism is annoying terrible. The Stalker warp in size is bigger than zealot/sentry, so it's really hard to place more than one-two stalkers depending on how your pylon power/warp prism power is placed.
On July 05 2011 06:10 iNSiPiD1 wrote: I came to this thread thinking I'd be able to read about little changes people would like to see made to our game, and instead it's just people (most likely toss players) arguing against the OPs changes. Remember people, this is HIS OPINION, why can't you give it the respect it deserves? You can start debating the hell out of this the day Blizzard says they're going to implement it.
I'd like to see a map in the map pool that's a 2 or 4 player map in the pool which is not symmetrical. I know it'll never happen, but one can dream.
Furthermore, I wish there were a way to balance the game without the need for little ramps at the front of every base. (I know why they are there, I'm just saying)
people don't give respect to opinions they think are inferior to theirs. It's the nature of video games, if they aren't as good as you or agree with you, then they are deemed noob and can never speak again.
as far as ramps, Tal`Darim altar does not have ramps leading into the main and there are other GSL maps that do not have ramps.
Opinions don't deserve respect. Ever. Anyone who believes that is terribly deluded. Seven year old children have opinions on Santa Claus. Creationists have opinions on evolution. Homeopaths have opinion on pharmacology. If anyone thinks opinions deserve respect, there's a reason they get none. Last I checked, facts matters, not the logical fallacy and Dunning-Kruger effect mashup that the average person posts on the internet.
On July 05 2011 06:10 iNSiPiD1 wrote: I came to this thread thinking I'd be able to read about little changes people would like to see made to our game, and instead it's just people (most likely toss players) arguing against the OPs changes. Remember people, this is HIS OPINION, why can't you give it the respect it deserves? You can start debating the hell out of this the day Blizzard says they're going to implement it.
I'd like to see a map in the map pool that's a 2 or 4 player map in the pool which is not symmetrical. I know it'll never happen, but one can dream.
Furthermore, I wish there were a way to balance the game without the need for little ramps at the front of every base. (I know why they are there, I'm just saying)
people don't give respect to opinions they think are inferior to theirs. It's the nature of video games, if they aren't as good as you or agree with you, then they are deemed noob and can never speak again.
as far as ramps, Tal`Darim altar does not have ramps leading into the main and there are other GSL maps that do not have ramps.
Opinions don't deserve respect. Ever. Anyone who believes that is terribly deluded. Seven year old children have opinions on Santa Claus. Creationists have opinions on evolution. Homeopaths have opinion on pharmacology. If anyone thinks opinions deserve respect, there's a reason they get none. Last I checked, facts matters, not the logical fallacy and Dunning-Kruger effect mashup that the average person posts on the internet.
On July 05 2011 06:10 iNSiPiD1 wrote: I came to this thread thinking I'd be able to read about little changes people would like to see made to our game, and instead it's just people (most likely toss players) arguing against the OPs changes. Remember people, this is HIS OPINION, why can't you give it the respect it deserves? You can start debating the hell out of this the day Blizzard says they're going to implement it.
I'd like to see a map in the map pool that's a 2 or 4 player map in the pool which is not symmetrical. I know it'll never happen, but one can dream.
Furthermore, I wish there were a way to balance the game without the need for little ramps at the front of every base. (I know why they are there, I'm just saying)
To the OPs side, I think it should be warp in time is reset but minerals or such are refunded by 80-75% return, maybe more people will learn not to warp on a pylon right next to a incoming force.
They should get the money back but warp time should not be reset. Consider if a Zerg cancels a building unit; they get the money back, but lose their larva and have to wait for more larva. If a Terran cancels a unit they get their money back, but the next time they build a unit it doesn't start out half-way done or whatever.
The mechanic is most fair if its full refund but you have to wait the normal time to make another unit.
On July 05 2011 07:13 L3gendary wrote: I think they should take out calldown supply. It's kind of silly when you think about it. Supply blocked? np
It "costs" 270 minerals since you lose a MULE, so it's not like it's a free unblock. While not getting blocked is arguably worth 270 minerals, it's not like it's viable to use calldown in any situation other than a highly specific build like iEchoic, or maybe if you're losing depots.
On July 05 2011 05:14 WniO wrote: i wish canceling an egg would transform it back into a larvae.. so many lost games because of this ): rax/gateways can cancel and instantly build the right unit, but for zerg you need to wait.
this was the case when starcraft 2 first came out, i think it was intended by blizzard but they didnt really think it through, so people did 6 pools with 5-6 larvas stacked up because they start building a OL and cancel once they get a new larva so they have alot of larva when pool is done.
Blizzard noted it as a bug when they fixed this "issue" tho, i beleive that this was just a design mistake, nog a bug
It seems like they could make it so that that larvae stacking thing wouldn't happen, rather restart the cooldown of the larva being make while giving back the initial larva. Meh.
I don't know if this is what was being addressed in the OP exactly, but having a sniped tech lab cancel the thor/battlecruiser/etc. That may be a little harsh though. I dunno.
I would like to have some sort of max unit selection.I think something between 30-45 units per hotkey would be great. I think it's a bit to "noob friendly" now if you can call it that, you have no limit in control groups and be able to have every single building on the same hotkey.
I want the "blip" sound back from BW when you tabbed between production facilitys. Would prefer how the "box" was in BW too. In BW it was just green edges and the box itself was just blank, in sc2 the whole box is some disgusting green shit.
I hope they will change the mouse cursors ingame too. As long as you don't play on a low resolution, your cursor is really small. And it looks horrible too.
Better unit movement, I hate the clumping unit balls.
Remove Xel'Nagas or at least make them dissapear after ~5 minutes.
And please, new sounds. The sc2 sounds is so bad. -_-
If everyone wants toss' warp in mechanic to not refund if losing a pylon, then so be it. But i'd like to see equal footing for all races. And no, telling me to kill your eggs will work is a complete joke. You lose ultra cavern? All your ultras are lost. None of this will even add to the game, only take it away.
This is a nice thread you've got, OP. Apparently we can't have 1 thread on tl without it turning into some kind of balance whine. Bravo, people.
Now, as far as things they should change, i'd like name changes.. I've been under the LaGTT tag for literally months and am not actually in the clan. It's annoying.. every other ladder game I get someone asking me if they can join, or they saw a game with x, or x bm'd them on the ladder 4 games ago. Being able to view replays with friends would be amazing. Some kind of replay sharing network within BNet .02 would be marvelous - i'm annoyed of having to open 1,000,000 folders (okay, not a million, 99,999) and do dragging/dropping. Wouldn't it be cool to mssg friends in chat to replays in a form of a link they can just click and download? Blizz has so much potential and many options here that they aren't utilizing. Probably too busy (re)counting their money.
EDIT: Ah, yes, and the post above i agree with - remove xel'naga towers.
Should we make Zerg cacoons have less armor so they can be sniped (and when sniped zerg lose the unit, no refund, etc) because "they shouldn't have build units so close to the enemy army"? Or for Terran, should we make it that units made from reactors or Tech labs are instantly destroyed when the addon is (no refund)? A warp-in being denied 6-10seconds and forced to warp-in futher away is already punishment enough.
EDIT:
And as the above poster said, so if you want to go down that route, should we make it if you lose a Spawning Pool/Infestation Pit/Spire/Ultra Cavern/etc then all units being made from that respective building should be destroyed and not refunded? I mean, clearly it was the Zergs fault for not placing the building in a smart location right?
On July 05 2011 07:13 L3gendary wrote: I think they should take out calldown supply. It's kind of silly when you think about it. Supply blocked? np
It "costs" 270 minerals since you lose a MULE, so it's not like it's a free unblock. While not getting blocked is arguably worth 270 minerals, it's not like it's viable to use calldown in any situation other than a highly specific build like iEchoic, or maybe if you're losing depots.
If you're arguing in that way it only 'costs' 170 minerals because you save 100 for not having to build a depot. You will also be able to mine longer at this base.
On topic: I just want map terrain fixed so units don't get stuck. Also I don't want 1 probe to mineralwalk through 4 of my probes blocking a ramp during a cannon rush.
On another note: Anyone know the exact reason why they removed phase cannons?
On another note: Anyone know the exact reason why they removed phase cannons?
Something to do with the spinecrawler. Too similar or the idea better fit Zerg. Phase Cannons would make me cry though, Cannon rushes would be ridiculous in PvP
EPT
