|
EDIT: For those reading this now, I recently installed WoWTunnels and it made a huge difference. I recommend trying them out on their free 30 days. Please note I am not advertising for WoWTunnels, they're just the ones I was recommended to! There are others to try too.
Hi guys,
I play SC2 from Australia. I have two SEA accounts, and access to a KR account. I play on three out of four regions that SC2 is available in, SEA, NA, and KR.
According to a tracert to the logon servers, my latency to the various servers at the moment is -
NA - ~230ms
SEA - ~210ms
KR - ~170ms
EU - ~350ms
When I ask some of my NA friends to do the same test, they get BELOW 50ms in all cases, and one of them actually has pings lower than 20 on occasion to NA.
Obviously their latency to SEA and KR is pretty poor.
My question to the Australian players is - How do you deal with this?
For normal play, its fine. Its noticeable, but not an impediment when doing things like macroing.
However, recently I've been incorporating more blink stalker play into my games, and it has made me painfully aware that this is actually a significant handicap. I've tried playing around with some blink builds in singleplayer vs AI mode (so, without latency) and the difference in my relative blink micro ability is astounding, it is 2-3x better and quicker than when I try to do it on the live servers.
Is there any way around this? Is there any way to reduce my ping to ANY of the servers? As I said, I have access to all three realms (two SEA accounts, which have obviously two NA accounts also linked, and I have the KR account too), and if anyone has had any success reducing their latency to somewhere around the 100ms or lower mark, I would love to hear your secrets.
For reference, I am on the West Coast of Australia, I beleive the East Coast gets slightly better pings to the SEA servers?
|
Doesn't have battle.net have forced lag for everyone of like 200ms? It's 150ms at least.
Your latency shouldn't give you a disadvantage. We all play with that lag and the built in bnet latency is one of the biggest reason why people wish for lan.
|
All I know is when I watch streams, their units seem to respond much more rapidly to every command issued than they do when I play  Maybe it is my imagination.
|
Enjoy the sexy weather and beaches. The hell you doing indoors.
|
I have 180 avg latency on SEA, NA, and KR servers.
which is fine and absolutely playable, you cant even notice a delay with this ping unless u play single player offline and realise the slight difference.
but there is probably little chance you are ever gonna get much lower than that anyways.
i have heard people talking about some sort of "tunneling" programs u can use to reduce latency but i have no idea what that is personally so perhaps ask around or try searching around for that online and it may help you out since anything over 200 is clearly unplayable for anyone.
goodluck hope i helped
|
I am just so use to playing with lag. Once I tried playing vs AI in the single player option, the instant reaction feels so good, but alas will never have it in MP..
|
I barely even notice it on NA or SEA.
|
It really depends in your internet provider and where you live. I get no lag in KR or NA. EU is the only problem.
|
To answer your question though, I don't think there's anything you can actually do about it.
The connection from australia just isn't ideal...it's just a physical limitation.
|
Thanks to Optus which owned By SingTel (Singapore Telecom) my ping to SEA (Server in Singapore) or Korea is 400ms >< got it routed thru US and then comes back to SEA ..insane :p
Ping to US howerver is 179.. need to switch to Telstra or really to move to the fuck out of here.. 
Sub 200ms is very playable I find
|
For all Australians out there: DO NOT USE OPTUS THEY ARE TEH BAD.
|
The lag is there and yeah it makes good micro too hard.
It even annoys me when you call down a mule, you know you call down mules and spam the calldown until the icon goes dim? well with the lag, it doesn't go dim straight away so I give more than one mule call-down when only one was available. Or I give one and move on then I'm like, hey, there is another? but there isn't. All the crisp instant feedback of placing a building, etc, is gone, so you simply have to spam commands more which lowers your effective APM
Stuff like un-siege and move becomes more of a pain as well, you have to slow down and be much more careful lest the move command is ignored.
Selecting units and pulling them back when injured is harder, as well as those little 4 man micro wars you get at minute 6 when putting or getting pressured.
At this point I'd like to play KR because 170 has to feel a bit better at least
I think the relative lack of popularity for sc2 in australia might be partly the lag. No kidding. Bronze/silver/gold might not notice it but when you get to diamond plus, and start noticing the little details in masters and GM matches, it becomes really annoying. Why ladder and train on NA with the dream of one day knocking on the door of GM, if you know you're stuck with this micro disadvantage vs nearly everyone.
|
^ haha at hard times like these think of Moonglade!
|
Don't play vs AI then, if you get used to having no lag then you play with 200ms it's pretty terrible, I'm with Optus, so I get like 400ms on Sea and still managed to get top 30 GM, although I barely play on sea cause 400ms is terrible. 200ms is fine for me, obviously it'd be great to have no lag, but after a while you get used to it. Look at it this way, the Koreans have to play on the NA server for the TL open tournaments and they pretty much all get top 5 and they're playing with terrible lag, as long as you get used to it, it's not that bad.
|
I play on NA now, I don't know what my latency is, but I know that I never lag.
When I do d/c, the modem dies or something
|
Whats the latency from Korean to NA ?
|
Honestly although I know that its there my brain and muscles have learned with the lag between click or button press and the reaction on the game and so I naturally compensate for it. I notice how big a difference it is when I play the AI (offline) and I actually have trouble timing my clicks.
A good example is that when i send a worker to build something instead of waiting for him to return his minerals I send him half a second or so before he returns and the lag makes him go off to build after he has returned.
Sometimes i do wish that my force fields would go down faster. But those situations are rare and I make up for it with safer play styles that rely less on 100% accurate FFs.
|
You get used to it...this might sound hilarious but playing WoW at a top level completely adjusted me to a latency of ~250ms. Knowing and becoming comfortable with the delay is the only way to get the most out of your play when you're at a disadvantage in lag. I wish Blizzard would just open local servers, seriously, it's not like they don't have all the money in the world.
Also, the FPS scene in Australia is so huge in comparison to other games primarily of the server location. There was an absolute ton of activity in the competitive CoD4 scene back when I was involved. I'm so sick and tired of the lack of local servers, Australia isn't some third world country T_T
|
Russian Federation676 Posts
On July 03 2011 16:24 ZiegFeld wrote:
Enjoy the sexy weather and beaches. The hell you doing indoors.
LOOL!
true! dont play games, just go meet some chicks on da beach
|
i hate the latency in all games
so many games i'd love to play but i cannot stand playing anything action/timing orientated with 200ms ping
starcraft isn't so bad. similar to dota/hon/lol i can stand it at 200ms. but 300ms i want to punch a baby in the face. it's funny how only 100ms can make such a huge difference. just wish i could play at 50ms.
|
I may check out a couple registry fixes and perhaps a tunnelling service, just to see if they improve things at all.
Its by no means unplayable. But certainly something I want to try to get rid of, if I can.
|
how did u test the latency?
|
cmd -> tracert us.logon.battle.net
|
open a command prompt
tracert us.logon.battle.net (for NA)
tracert sg.logon.battle.net (for SEA)
tracert eu.logon.battle.net (for Europe)
tracert kr.logon.battle.net (for Korea)
|
On July 03 2011 16:44 MavercK wrote:
i hate the latency in all games
so many games i'd love to play but i cannot stand playing anything action/timing orientated with 200ms ping
starcraft isn't so bad. similar to dota/hon/lol i can stand it at 200ms. but 300ms i want to punch a baby in the face. it's funny how only 100ms can make such a huge difference. just wish i could play at 50ms.
DotA and HoN have Australian servers. You ever play on BA?
|
|
|
On July 03 2011 16:43 human_ko wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2011 16:24 ZiegFeld wrote:
Enjoy the sexy weather and beaches. The hell you doing indoors. LOOL! true! dont play games, just go meet some chicks on da beach
And enforce some stereotypes along the way. I've been to the beach twice in my life (to fish), and it's cold as hell here anyway. It's never beach weather...
|
hell, i'd pay that if it gave results.
|
i'm from Singapore and moved to playing on NA server with 200+ping
I roll over and die on 4 gate maps as i play Toss. for all other match ups I try to handle the latency by going for a more macro based game and overrunning instead of intensive micro
|
On July 03 2011 16:52 Dhalphir wrote:hell, i'd pay that if it gave results.
Well, it works.
It's a tunneling service, so it will reduce your latency to a certain amount.
Most of those services have something like a ping test to their server or a free trial, so you can check how much latency you get using their program.
Sometimes it won't help at all, because you are already using the quickest route to battle.net servers.
|
there is no "ping reducer", that is snake oil.
A VPN or other tunnel just makes things worse: you are wrapping your traffic in a parcel, sending it to an american server (same latency as you already have) then it has to get un-wrapped and sent to battle.net, how can that do anything but make things worse. The only case where it might help a bit is where your ISP sucks so much it, for some reason, might have a terrible route to battle.net but a good route to a VPN provider. However that is extremely unlikely and might change from week to week anyway. Plus, you're still doomed to the figures at the start of the topic.
What with the various routers and infrastructure and copper between australia and SEA or australia and NA servers, you're not gonna see better than the figures quoted at the start of the topic.
|
200 ms lag on NA makes terran playable.
As for on SEA, I get 250-300 ms lag and Terran is unplayable for me.
I can live with playing at those lags, but the moment I get matched up with a player from Singapore, it's something like 400-500ms (for my side).
Makes me rage @ Optus Singtel
|
I'm with Optus. I always thought stutter stepping was a mythical unobtainable micro trick until one day I was playing away from home and realized that it was actually as easy as hell and it was just my latency at home stopping me from being able to do it properly.
You don't really have a choice but to concede that some micro tricks are going to be incredibly difficult to pull off and you have to anticipate things a lot earlier to allow for the delay.
I don't even bother playing on SEA server since the delay makes it unplayable.
|
On July 03 2011 16:40 Sleec wrote:Look at it this way, the Koreans have to play on the NA server for the TL open tournaments and they pretty much all get top 5 and they're playing with terrible lag, as long as you get used to it, it's not that bad.
The korean streamer slayers_dragon repeatedly explains he does not ladder on NA because the lag sucks, and EU because the lag sucks harder.
Take one look at his 2 rax vs zerg, or many other micro situations and realize half of his game talent is gone if he must ladder on NA or EU. So he can only ladder on KR or SEA which are both local to him.
|
I learned precognition and move everything 300 ms earlier.
|
I deal with it by raging a lot.
A LOT.
|
Yeah the lag is pretty shit. Since i've gotten better i've really noticed it ... i get better lag on NA accout T_T
|
On July 03 2011 16:33 prOxi.FighT wrote:
For all Australians out there: DO NOT USE OPTUS THEY ARE TEH BAD.
nothing more honest has ever been spoken
Optus are the bane of my gaming life -_- 450 ping to the SEA sever its pretty COOL!!!!
|
It doesn't make a really big difference in playing except for very fiddly micro situations like ling/bling wars and blink stalkers. It's completely playable. A bit sad that I get better ping to KR than to SEA though.
|
i dont really notice it much in sc2 (sea and na) but when i use to play WoW the lag was so horrid. US players had such an advantage in arena due to delay =(
|
How come some people have a bigger delay to SEA than NA?
|
The latency is annoying but it's definitely playable. As long as its consistent and ur use to it, micro is pretty fine except for some really intensive situations. It's annoying for sure tho, but it dosent affect sc2 as much as some other games where it is insanely annoying.
|
@OP, I'm curious, since Kor has the lowest ping, do you notice it all in gameplay? Or is it just as bad.
I thought SEA would be better for me on East coast over NA (150 vs 200 ping) but the delay difference is not noticeable (apart from me missing commands due to issuing them too fast where as on NA it's fine because I've timed my hotkey mashing around it to the millisecond..).
|
No, its not really significantly better on Korea.
For those wondering, I just installed WoWTunnels to try them out for their free 30 days.
I don't have any hard numbers from tracert, because they haven't changed (I think WoWTunnels only does it for the game traffic?), but in game it FEELS way better. I urge everyone to at least give it a quick go because after all, its free for 30 days.
|
On July 03 2011 17:43 Dhalphir wrote:
No, its not really significantly better on Korea.
For those wondering, I just installed WoWTunnels to try them out for their free 30 days.
I don't have any hard numbers from tracert, because they haven't changed (I think WoWTunnels only does it for the game traffic?), but in game it FEELS way better. I urge everyone to at least give it a quick go because after all, its free for 30 days.
Will do. SIfn't post link for the lazy..
|
Yeah I basically avoid blink stalkers altogether on both NA and SEA due to this delay problem.. really sucks.
|
On July 03 2011 17:39 Phenny wrote:
How come some people have a bigger delay to SEA than NA?
Optus don't connect to the SEA server direct they send the signal to NA then back to Singapore i think that's where the SEA server is
aka Optus don't have a direct line to the sea server
Telstra do and most other ISPS use Telstra's lines so its pretty much just Optus that has the shity connection
|
Be polite and gg when an inevitable lol lagggg moment costs you the game.
|
How do we deal with latency? The answer is: We don't. We just have to put up with absolutely terrible latency to any of Blizzard's games. The SEA server is NOT a solution for Australian players, if anything its actually much worse for a lot of us (being Optus I range from ~350-450 during prime-time).
As a Terran player, the only server that is playable for me is NA and from what I've heard Korea is too.. but still not being able to play your favorite game with < 50ms in this day and age is really, really disappointing.
It's quite a shame, Australians for the most part really covet their Blizzard products yet we always are being shafted when it comes to the battle.net service .
|
On July 03 2011 16:43 human_ko wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2011 16:24 ZiegFeld wrote:
Enjoy the sexy weather and beaches. The hell you doing indoors. LOOL! true! dont play games, just go meet some chicks on da beach
Its Winter, noones at the beach.
How do I deal with lag? I don't, just have to accept my roaches and infestors not burrowing before they die.
|
Play zerg. Seriously.
Having played random most of sc2 + beta, there are 2 times where delay can really screw you.
-blink stalker micro
-marine stutter stepping marines
It's not that bad if your delay is constant but if you get type of spike it can really hurt you.
I'm talking 150-250 delay. Anything above that and everything starts feeling sluggish.
|
Yes, SC2 and SC BW on Bnet has inbuilt latency. It seems WC3 and WoW have this too. If your ping is 20 or 170, it doesn't matter as it gets equalized into 250 by Blizzard's code.
So you may think you have a delay because you are in Australia but in fact every bnet game has it. Even if you play vs the AI only.
Blizzard tested with this in beta on the NA server where they lowered it a bit. They said almost no one noticed it as there were no comments about it on bnet fora. So they decided it wasn't worth it because it gives laggy above 100 ping players an unfair disadvantage.
On top of that SC2 also has accelerating and turning units, making micro even more chunky.
Of course if you have Optus as a provider with 450 ping, things are different.
It is true that on iccup Australians are amongst the most laggy.
|
On July 03 2011 16:24 ZiegFeld wrote:
Enjoy the sexy weather and beaches. The hell you doing indoors.
its winter bro 
|
On July 03 2011 17:00 nyc863 wrote:
there is no "ping reducer", that is snake oil.
A VPN or other tunnel just makes things worse: you are wrapping your traffic in a parcel, sending it to an american server (same latency as you already have) then it has to get un-wrapped and sent to battle.net, how can that do anything but make things worse. The only case where it might help a bit is where your ISP sucks so much it, for some reason, might have a terrible route to battle.net but a good route to a VPN provider. However that is extremely unlikely and might change from week to week anyway. Plus, you're still doomed to the figures at the start of the topic.
What with the various routers and infrastructure and copper between australia and SEA or australia and NA servers, you're not gonna see better than the figures quoted at the start of the topic.
That is a half truth.Optus was and is bad atm due to them raising their data allowance by a huge margin (was it around 6 months ago?) and then not having the infastucture to cope with it internationally when people leached. (Why this is a shock to optus that people would download things internationally when they had the limits raised is beyond me)
At one stage I was getting 7000+ms after 7pm each night. So I started to look at tunneling programs. The problem was alot optimally routed you after I had already hit Optus congestion/blockage. Eventually I found one called Battleping. It worked wonderfully. At night if I wanted to play I turned it on and bam I was down to a constant 200M/s to texas. It worked for 3 months like that without a single hitch. Smooth constant pings and no issues.
So don't completly write of that kind of program because in certain circumstances they can work amazingly. Also some don't go squat for you I tried wowtunnels and lowerping both before Battleping and they did nothing to help my particular issue.
As for the general latency and what we play with. It sucks plain and simple. We are constantly at a disadvantage and it makes it not as fun to play. But it isn't like we have any choice in the matter. You either accept it and play or not play.
|
Suck your thumb and be very sad.
If you live far from the exchange like glade does, the most expensive internet still lags.
Plus those damn caps!!!
Unlimited plans = bad internet.
Normal/semi decent internet = CAPP JEZUS CHRIST!
|
On July 03 2011 17:43 Dhalphir wrote:
No, its not really significantly better on Korea.
For those wondering, I just installed WoWTunnels to try them out for their free 30 days.
I don't have any hard numbers from tracert, because they haven't changed (I think WoWTunnels only does it for the game traffic?), but in game it FEELS way better. I urge everyone to at least give it a quick go because after all, its free for 30 days.
Have used different tunneling programs over the years when playing wow and it always improved it greatly (like 400-500ms to 200-250ms, lets you actually play competitively). I'm using wowtunnels right now because I get it for free but I can hardly notice a difference in sc2 with it and I can definitely notice the difference between SEA and NA. Blink stalkers and forcefields are where the delay really hurts which sucks because blink is the most fun thing to use imo and proper forcefields change whether you win or lose a fight.
|
I was always under the assumption that programs such as battleping/lowerping were against the Blizzard TOS? I could be completely wrong here.
|
On July 03 2011 18:16 WinteRR wrote:
I was always under the assumption that programs such as battleping/lowerping were against the Blizzard TOS? I could be completely wrong here.
No, they're not.
|
On July 03 2011 18:02 Hekisui wrote:
Yes, SC2 and SC BW on Bnet has inbuilt latency. It seems WC3 and WoW have this too. If your ping is 20 or 170, it doesn't matter as it gets equalized into 250 by Blizzard's code.
So you may think you have a delay because you are in Australia but in fact every bnet game has it. Even if you play vs the AI only.
Blizzard tested with this in beta on the NA server where they lowered it a bit. They said almost no one noticed it as there were no comments about it on bnet fora. So they decided it wasn't worth it because it gives laggy above 100 ping players an unfair disadvantage.
On top of that SC2 also has accelerating and turning units, making micro even more chunky.
Of course if you have Optus as a provider with 450 ping, things are different.
It is true that on iccup Australians are amongst the most laggy.
You are wrong. They add 225ms to whatever delay you have. There is no normalising at all.
|
Tried wowtunnels and it didn't change a thing. Still had 210 ms from NA, but had 350 ms from SEA where I usually got around 250 ms before using wowtunnels.
|
It's impossible for us to deal with it because with regards to internet technology Australia is a backwater.
|
So used to it after years of online gaming that I'm completely unphased by it.
|
On July 03 2011 18:18 Jarvs wrote:
You are wrong. They add 225ms to whatever delay you have. There is no normalising at all.
That would be crazy as the only reason they add a delay is to level the playing field. I am pretty sure they said that pre beta in interviews.
If they only add to the latency you already have, what is the point? Why would they add the delay of 250 or 225 if they can just as well add almost nothing?
What is your evidence anyway? I say it's the same as in SC BW and the same as they said in early interviews.
|
I feel bad for Australians who even cannot play at 100ish ms on SEA cause there are a lot of Australian players compared to Filipino players. I dunno if Australia is just that far from Singapore, or the player's ISP is not the best for connecting to Singapore(Australia->USA->Singapore).
I suggest to find out first if there's an ISP in Australia that connects directly to Singapore, and how low the latency can possibly get. Just like I did. I switched ISP for the best connection to SEA and I'm lucky it can get this low cause Singapore is a neighbor of my country, Philippines.
Tracing route to sg.logon.battle.net [202.9.66.76]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.254.1
2 33 ms 29 ms 30 ms 120.28.176.1
3 29 ms 29 ms 32 ms 10.109.9.41
4 29 ms 29 ms 29 ms 120.28.0.185
5 32 ms 31 ms 45 ms 120.28.0.2
6 57 ms 57 ms 57 ms 120.28.0.122
7 58 ms 58 ms 59 ms 120.28.3.2
8 56 ms 56 ms 56 ms an-ats-int10.starhub.net.sg [203.118.3.230]
9 68 ms 69 ms 68 ms 203.116.5.146
10 68 ms 68 ms 68 ms 27.111.222.69
11 58 ms 57 ms 58 ms 27.111.222.82
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 * * * Request timed out.
14 * * * Request timed out.
I get 175 to NA and like 350 to KR. I dunno if we have an ISP that has direct link to KR so I'll move there instead of I ever want to Pro lol.
|
On July 03 2011 18:29 Hekisui wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2011 18:18 Jarvs wrote:
You are wrong. They add 225ms to whatever delay you have. There is no normalising at all. That would be crazy as the only reason they add a delay is to level the playing field. I am pretty sure they said that pre beta in interviews. If they only add to the latency you already have, what is the point? Why would they add the delay of 250 or 225 if they can just as well add almost nothing? What is your evidence anyway? I say it's the same as in SC BW and the same as they said in early interviews.
It's actually done to cater towards poor internet connections which cannot handle sending a frequent rate of packets, instead it only sends them every 225ms (or so.. i cannot remember the exact number). It has been this way since War3 and nothing other than reducing it for SC2 has it changed. The technique is exactly the same.
|
Latency actually makes a difference - for those that don't experience it, for the first few games until you get used to it, you would be unable to play at all. Now that I've got used to it, it isn't so bad, but there are a certain amount of strategies or openings that I can't do (e.g. 2-rax pressure against zerg).
I considered trying WoWTunnels but at that time I wanted to try, I needed to pay for some kind of software and didn't want to spend the time trying to set it up with putty. Since like the OP got it working with WoWTunnels, looks like I may have a look.
My ping used to be around the 600ms and it's quite bad for both SC2 and WoW. Fortunately, maybe my ISP seems to have routed their traffic better and I get around 300ms which is quite playable.
|
My ping on SEA is about 130ms, but NA is 230ms, when I play on NA there is a noticeable difference, but I'm used to this kind of delay so its not too bad, I'm not good enough that it comes into play very often. When microing you just have to think a bit further ahead (eg. blinking stalkers 0.5s before you would normally to prevent armour damage etc)
What kills my play isnt delay, so long as its constant its fine, but when spikes hit it gets gay, thankfully my connection is very stable if not optimal in terms of ping.
|
|
|
Wish people would stop saying everyone has 200ms.
I watch pros playing on their 30-60fps Streams and you can SEE that the delay is under 100ms, eg instant warp in on clicks, when they are playing on local servers.
|
i have dealt with it for years on mmo's, and other rts'. i will only play FPS on local aussie severs though, because to me, i notice it a lot more on those.
but then again, i get to live in australia, a nice big ass, underpopulated, beautiful, non-religiously political motivated, multicultural island, with a beach only 2 minutes walk away, and the best weather in the world. i don't really have any right to complain when it comes to environmental conditions, so i deal with my 220 lat and try and enjoy my games as well as i can :D
|
suprised to see dat KR server has less ping than NA and SEA. I thought aus internet is routed through the US, no?
|
It's not the latency that makes me rage (it's still annoying). IT'S THE GOD DAMN LAG SPIKES I GET EVERY 3 SECONDS FROM OPTUS THAT LAST ABOUT A SECOND.
It makes me want to break shit. Can't even click on any of my scvs because they teleport everywhere T.T
|
On July 03 2011 20:14 Cubu wrote:
suprised to see dat KR server has less ping than NA and SEA. I thought aus internet is routed through the US, no?
australia has more than one outbound cable, and although a lot of traffic goes across the pacific there is one (or more) that head up to SE Asia.
|
Wowtunnel doesn't help much for me either, EU is still 315ms :[
|
~100ms to SEA and ~200ms to NA from South Australia (Internode).
Feels good, man. :D
|
I've never read the command prompt things before so I'm not sure what my lag is to the SEA servers.
It ranges from 70ms to begin with and reaches 124ms on the 17th line. Anyone help me out with reading this?
|
its kinda strange put i seem to have gotten to the point where i dont notice it ( im in denial btw) in any case when u have played with high latency always then u just take it as the norm and dont really think about it (too often).
|
I just suck it up and continue to hope they will one day build a server here =(
|
As I mentioned in a thread about it, there is a much better way to finding out your in game latency than doing a trace route to the login server. Record yourself in fraps doing blink micro in a unit tester map. Then check how many frames passed between the time you clicked the button and the time the stalker actually blinked. Divide the number of frames it took by the number of frames recorded per second to find out your actual latency. I think a lot of people will be surprised to find out what their actual lag is.
More work? Sure. But very worth it when discussing latency seriously.
|
I was about to start yelling about people using tracert or ping commands to some random battle.net server will not show a great deal about your actual in game delay, but thanks Not_That for saying it in a constructive way. (one thing its from the tracert you only care about the latency to the last server in the list, and it is too busy doing more important stuff to respond)
I've noticed (and I think previous threads have mentioned) that in the SEA server from Australia there are lag spikes more often at certain times of the day, during which playing in NA is actually less painful. The lag is slightly more but as its not choppy it feels slightly better.
I cope by playing strats that are less micro focused, instead of 2 rax stutter step micro vs zerg I just wait till i have 1 fact reactor hellions coming out, rallied onto my marines that are already marching across the map. Against toss I don't try any cute marauder micro I just bunker up, wait for a big enough bio ball that can A+ move their gateway army (with limited success).
|
On July 03 2011 16:44 MavercK wrote:
i hate the latency in all games
so many games i'd love to play but i cannot stand playing anything action/timing orientated with 200ms ping
starcraft isn't so bad. similar to dota/hon/lol i can stand it at 200ms. but 300ms i want to punch a baby in the face. it's funny how only 100ms can make such a huge difference. just wish i could play at 50ms.
HoN and Dota i find it impossible with more than 40ms. O:
But on the topic, i play on Latin American server and it is hosted on usa west coast afaik. Not such a clever decision ): . I get 200ms from here, it sucks real bad, try to split marines in time with 200ms, not that easy. If anyone know any tricks i'd be glad to try it out.
|
How can you even see what your ms is? I thought there was no way to see that :S
Edit: Oh it was already mentioned earlier in the thread. Sorry!
|
Oh yea marine splitting, I just mix in marauders, then when i see banes I just double click a marine and then run them in the opposite direction while the marauders just stand around and soak up the splash damage. I think the players I am up against (plat) are just bad or suffering similar latency issues, cause it usually leaves me with a few red marauders and the majority of my marines .
|
On July 03 2011 23:44 zergrushkekeke wrote:
Oh yea marine splitting, I just mix in marauders, then when i see banes I just double click a marine and then run them in the opposite direction while the marauders just stand around and soak up the splash damage. I think the players I am up against (plat) are just bad or suffering similar latency issues, cause it usually leaves me with a few red marauders and the majority of my marines .
Try hitting mutas or phoenix with fungal, you can aim ahead but if they change direction you miss so badly.
|
I think I know for sure that battleping doesn't work that well for sc2
|
Heres a fun experiment. Play the marine split map using the custom game create first (which means bnet ping) and see what level you get. Then play using the "versus ai" button under single player and see how much difference it makes.
|
dang that really sucks.I feel bad for u austrailians..
|
On July 03 2011 16:48 Dhalphir wrote:
open a command prompt
tracert us.logon.battle.net (for NA)
tracert sg.logon.battle.net (for SEA)
tracert eu.logon.battle.net (for Europe)
tracert kr.logon.battle.net (for Korea)
Can I just ask how you identify what the ms actually is using this method for a noob techie like myself. Is it the 2 last steps that show your ms to blizzard servers?
|
Basically..whatever the highest you get, assuming that your tracert worked and you weren't blocked somewhere. Everyones route is different.
Actual in-game ping still feels a little higher for me in reality - but they are close enough estimates (tracert shows 200, feels like 250-290).
|
I don't have any lag issues playing on the SEA or NA server. None that is enough to make or break a game that is. I just learn to live with it.
|
75 ms in tracert to eu.logon.battle.net, 330 ms actual latency in game. Don't believe tracert, it LIES! Fraps is the only way I know of to measure your real sc2 latency.
|
yeah i get around 60ms from tracert eu, but doesn't feel like 60ms at all more like 200-250
playing singleplayer > play vs AI saddens me where everything just responds instantly
|
Giving free scouting info by depot's not raising fast enough. Trying to stutter-step inf but all you get is them move stop move stop without actually shooting.
Oh, and the marine micro baneling split map. Jesus christ, that's when I realized how badly lag effected me. Pretty much had to guess which direction the banes would be coming from, as if i did it on reaction, 2/3s of my marines would be dead by the time my first command registered.
|
On July 03 2011 19:36 DarKcS wrote:
Wish people would stop saying everyone has 200ms.
I watch pros playing on their 30-60fps Streams and you can SEE that the delay is under 100ms, eg instant warp in on clicks, when they are playing on local servers.
It was measured. When did it change it? Did you measure it yourself? This used to be a big topic because SC BW players went through a revolution when we got lan letency on bnet/iccup because of third party programs. It was huge and no one still wanted to play with latency.
Then SC2 came around and still had the same latency.
You watch people and you can see the delay is under 100 and warp in's are instant upon clicking? How do you know when they click? You don't. By definition the delay is between clicking on your mouse and the game input engine applying your input.
Another problem is that SC2 netcode is routed peer to peer. It has the disadvantages of both with the advantages of neither. If you play in Australia with an Australian you both lag because the server isn't in Australia and the data packets first go to the server and only then return.
But on the other hand the server does basically nothing with the packets it sends as SC2 isn't hack proof like it could be.
HoN on the other hand has lan latency and it is impossible to maphack because your local computer just never has the data.
|
You see them click, and you see how much of a delay afterwards there is until the units response. Can easily be seen even with ordering workers around in the early game.
I don't know what you mean with the second part. The latency definitely does not have to be the same for both players in a game of starcraft 2 if that's what you meant. (in BW, it was the same for both players)
|
there is nothing wrong with using tracert.
each hop gets 3 probes.
obviously your latency is going to be worse than the best readings toward the end.
You can ignore servers that don't respond or respond wildly
usually the trend is obvious, the lowest number anywhere in the last few hops is the best possible latency.
you can also pluck a hop from near the end and just ping it.
if you think the latency might be unstable, use a packet size parameter and set it to 1000, then look at the ping
|
I only notice my lag when I ladder on SEA then go straight over to NA. It's so hard to use burrow micro u_u. But, as long as you can outmacro your opponent, chances are you win.
To put the lag into perspective though: In a Zerg's case, every egg can be delayed by ATLEAST 1 second. So, this means that every unit made is going to be slower then an NA opponent. This also translate into any action, it's actually surprisingly harder to stutter step micro your marines with the delay.
You get used to it though imho, it's annoying when you're behind your opponent the entire game, but it's not dramatically changing the game and not prohibiting us from actually killing shit anyway.
|
On July 04 2011 10:00 chuigo wrote:
I only notice my lag when I ladder on SEA then go straight over to NA. It's so hard to use burrow micro u_u. But, as long as you can outmacro your opponent, chances are you win.
To put the lag into perspective though: In a Zerg's case, every egg can be delayed by ATLEAST 1 second. So, this means that every unit made is going to be slower then an NA opponent. This also translate into any action, it's actually surprisingly harder to stutter step micro your marines with the delay.
You get used to it though imho, it's annoying when you're behind your opponent the entire game, but it's not dramatically changing the game and not prohibiting us from actually killing shit anyway.
250ms means 250 milliseconds.
So compared to a player with 50ms, it's a 1/5th of a second extra delay. Yes it's bad, but it's not a full second like you stated.
|
Some rules. Only play RTS using NA/sea. Anything else play using local Australian servers
|
On July 04 2011 09:43 nyc863 wrote:
there is nothing wrong with using tracert.
each hop gets 3 probes.
obviously your latency is going to be worse than the best readings toward the end.
You can ignore servers that don't respond or respond wildly
usually the trend is obvious, the lowest number anywhere in the last few hops is the best possible latency.
you can also pluck a hop from near the end and just ping it.
if you think the latency might be unstable, use a packet size parameter and set it to 1000, then look at the ping
Wrong! tracert is not even close to an accurate representation of your starcraft 2 latency. Blizzard has blocked their servers from responding to ping and tracert queries and tracert will merely get you numbers upto a certain point in the chain. If you read what I posted earlier, you will see that there can be a SUBSTANTIAL difference between tracert numbers and real in game latency. Your in game latency might be up to FOUR times as much as what tracert will tell you.
|
nope, you are incorrect.
the lag in game does reflect (I said reflect, not the same as..) tracert ..
Yes it isn't all the way TO blizzard but the nearest hop to blizzard is basically the same .. a few ms different at most. The latency for us aussies is the travel time across the ocean and that is right there, in the middle of the tracert.
I don't care what the game latency is as an absolute number, the game is the game. What I care about is that the tracert to one battle.net is better than another, then the in-game latency will be better. Same when comparing one ISP to another. The best ISP has the best ping/tracert. That is all you have to know.
So there is no point looking at absolute number of frames of latency in-game, because all we care about is which battle.net arena is closer (tracert tells you this) and which ISP gives better routing/better ping to a certain arena (tracert tells you this).
|
On July 04 2011 07:35 Hekisui wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2011 19:36 DarKcS wrote:
Wish people would stop saying everyone has 200ms.
I watch pros playing on their 30-60fps Streams and you can SEE that the delay is under 100ms, eg instant warp in on clicks, when they are playing on local servers. It was measured. When did it change it? Did you measure it yourself?
I know because you can hear their mouse clicks over the mic -_-
Btw any know where the US SC2 server is? US West or East? As I'm trying out WoWtunnels and I have no idea which proxy to choose..
|
On July 04 2011 21:35 nyc863 wrote:
nope, you are incorrect.
the lag in game does reflect (I said reflect, not the same as..) tracert ..
Yes it isn't all the way TO blizzard but the nearest hop to blizzard is basically the same .. a few ms different at most. The latency for us aussies is the travel time across the ocean and that is right there, in the middle of the tracert.
I don't care what the game latency is as an absolute number, the game is the game. What I care about is that the tracert to one battle.net is better than another, then the in-game latency will be better. Same when comparing one ISP to another. The best ISP has the best ping/tracert. That is all you have to know.
So there is no point looking at absolute number of frames of latency in-game, because all we care about is which battle.net arena is closer (tracert tells you this) and which ISP gives better routing/better ping to a certain arena (tracert tells you this).
Nope. Maybe for you it reflects in game latency, but why look at a proxy variable to try and get a vague idea of what you're looking for, when instead you can look directly at the thing you're interested in?
If tracert can show 75 ms for me, while my in game latency is actually 330ms, and I know for a fact some people do not have a 255 ms latency difference between their tracert results and in game latency, then tracert is, for all intent and purposes, absolutely useless. It should not be brought into the discussion when discussing sc2 in game latency.
|
On July 04 2011 21:35 nyc863 wrote:
nope, you are incorrect.
the lag in game does reflect (I said reflect, not the same as..) tracert ..
Yes it isn't all the way TO blizzard but the nearest hop to blizzard is basically the same .. a few ms different at most. The latency for us aussies is the travel time across the ocean and that is right there, in the middle of the tracert.
I don't care what the game latency is as an absolute number, the game is the game. What I care about is that the tracert to one battle.net is better than another, then the in-game latency will be better. Same when comparing one ISP to another. The best ISP has the best ping/tracert. That is all you have to know.
So there is no point looking at absolute number of frames of latency in-game, because all we care about is which battle.net arena is closer (tracert tells you this) and which ISP gives better routing/better ping to a certain arena (tracert tells you this).
I can't tell if you are trolling or not.
This is like saying "fuel usage reflects the amount of kilometers a car has traveled, instead of looking at the odometer I just tally up how many times I've filled the car up since i bought it." See what I said wasn't wrong, but its still retarded.
|
For anyone using WoWtunnels, which server are you playing on? I signed up for the free trial and on NA it seems to be the same ping as before, about 180.
|
How come S2 Games for HoN can pay for Australian servers but a company as big as Blizzard refuses to pay for Australian servers for wow/sc2?
Basically the way I deal with lag on SC2 is to not play SC2 and play MMOs instead, which take no skill and hence lag doesn't matter. The only thing that matters there is how hard you can grind your face against the keyboard.
|
Because IPGN (Australian company) had to order servers and front their own cash (this took 6 months) to get TWO servers going.
|
Its playable but trying to split marines, stutter step or control a banshee just gets frustrating.
|
On July 05 2011 15:03 dryice135 wrote:
Its playable but trying to split marines, stutter step or control a banshee just gets frustrating.
QFT
|
On July 05 2011 11:51 Tektos wrote:
How come S2 Games for HoN can pay for Australian servers but a company as big as Blizzard refuses to pay for Australian servers for wow/sc2?
Basically the way I deal with lag on SC2 is to not play SC2 and play MMOs instead, which take no skill and hence lag doesn't matter. The only thing that matters there is how hard you can grind your face against the keyboard.
FOR THE GLORY OF ASEAN !! The next big economic region!
In all seriousness I think Australia has the majority of the players in the server but it was probably cheaper to setup in Singapore. So by charging SEA twice the retail price of the game compared to EU/NA and then setting up the server in the cheapest place blizzard made easy money.
|
On July 03 2011 16:24 ZiegFeld wrote:
Enjoy the sexy weather and beaches. The hell you doing indoors.
It's winter in Aus at the moment by the way
Personally I dont have a massive issue with the SEA server from west Aus, sometimes the lag can be pretty bad on NA and other times its pretty good. With Westnet by the way
|
To the people saying optus is bad, im with optus and i dont lag at all during any part of the game, on both servers, and have fine latency.
|
On July 03 2011 16:43 human_ko wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2011 16:24 ZiegFeld wrote:
Enjoy the sexy weather and beaches. The hell you doing indoors. LOOL! true! dont play games, just go meet some chicks on da beach
It's winter here (I think), would love to catch my death on the beaches.
|
mmmm mine would be around 200-300 MS but for SC2 its fine. but for MMORPG games even just sitting at 350ms for me i get button delays
|
hmm yeah latency is so bad atm especially on optus but apparently they are trying to fix it. In any case i just dont play on sea anymore as i'm tired of loseing half my games because i cant actually micro properlly.
|
On July 03 2011 16:43 human_ko wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2011 16:24 ZiegFeld wrote:
Enjoy the sexy weather and beaches. The hell you doing indoors. LOOL! true! dont play games, just go meet some chicks on da beach
The oceans of australia have more things in them that can kill you than a Texas gunstore.
|
Take a tip and get TPG unlimited.
In any case, pretty much every sever is playable except for perhaps EU. NA is a little laggier than SEA or KR but it doesn't affect play in any significant way aside from a slight delay.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
