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ye merz is an APM beast, i saw one of his replays once via sc2gears and couldn't believe his speed O_O
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On June 27 2011 02:12 ganil wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 01:57 obesechicken13 wrote:On June 26 2011 21:40 Megaliskuu wrote:On June 26 2011 21:37 Caladbolg wrote:On June 26 2011 21:24 Megaliskuu wrote:On June 26 2011 21:22 Yaotzin wrote:On June 26 2011 21:19 funk100 wrote:On June 26 2011 21:15 Megaliskuu wrote:Its kinda sad that people can be top players with 130 apm though  . 130 APM is enough to do all you need to do in Sc2 if you use it efficiently. Well, for now. I think it's gradually changing though. Can you keep up with MMA's multitasking with 130apm? Doubtful. For comparison's sake, is there a similar list for BW progamers? I've put alot of reps into bwrepinfo before, and it seems a good average is around 400-425, with EAPM of around 220-250. But then there are guys like stork who are slow, and guys like hero who are ridiculously fast (but still do terrible). Hyuk is another high apm guy with arguably more success than hero. Seen him get 500+ average in a game (peaking at high 600s). Zerg seems to require the highest apm as well, similar to how I perceive the average to be in SC2 (although admittedly, it seems that Protoss and Terran do benefit more due to their micro tricks). A large chunk of BW apm was for macro and rally resetting (other large components were multitask and micro tricks). I wonder where merz's 470 goes to? Watching the FPVOD of someone like Select or Huk, the APM seems to go to multitask and micro. On the other hand, someone like Major or Idra seem to put more time in base management. As a Zerg BW player, alot of apm comes from going 1click 2click 3click 4click 5click 6click 7click 8click 9click to move your army around the map, I was a shit C/low C+ player but I averaged 340-360 apm just because moving mass ling armies added lots of actions. I have to agree, the reason why the APMs are so low compared to BW, is just that macro and micro has gotten so much easier and faster. It takes maybe half the time to perform the actions required, but only a quarter of the actions to do something. I played on iccup less than 2 seasons with no prior SCBW experience. I suck at rts game. I'm slow as hell I play super safe and standard. ... I got C with sthg like 140~150 apm average (3 hatch spire into 5 hatch hydra vs P and 2 hatch muta 3 hatch hive vT, ZvZ is weird so I had no real planned build here). You don't need a high apm to do basics builds and win a lot.
rep and iccup id?
i call bs
On June 27 2011 01:12 Apolo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 21:15 Megaliskuu wrote:Its kinda sad that people can be top players with 130 apm though . On the contrary. It's quite sad that some people still value apm over strategy as a winning factor. I'm glad this game was improved over the monkey-like actions from BW.
don't be kidding me.
bw has more strategy and sc2 is more monkey-like.
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On June 27 2011 01:45 Froadac wrote:
Could you please edit in how these people placed? Is there any sort of correlation.
Sure, there we go. I added the average position as well. I considered everyone who finished in the group stage as just placing as 32 though, ranking them individually isn't very viable.
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haha Merz. Everyone is like 300 cap and merz is almost 500
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It appears all the APM threads are infested with people desperately trying to convince themselves their low speed is completely acceptable in high level play.
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On June 27 2011 04:05 nira wrote:
It appears all the APM threads are infested with people desperately trying to convince themselves their low speed is completely acceptable in high level play.
Indeed and it's hilarious because this people (including myself) have no way to reach high level play :D
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i only know MLG Columbus APM champion is Losira
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On June 27 2011 04:05 nira wrote:
It appears all the APM threads are infested with people desperately trying to convince themselves their low speed is completely acceptable in high level play.
Why trying? This thread an the others pretty much prove that high APM is not necessary to be considered a top player
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The longer the game goes on, the higher average apm people will have since people will get better at multitasking. It will be interesting to see how a Sjow or a Goody will do when this happens.
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On June 27 2011 04:10 Azurues wrote:
i only know MLG Columbus APM champion is Losira
According to this MMA barely edged him out of that
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I thought Idra had very high APM (relative to other pros, such as making top 15 or so), but I guess not. I suppose it's just somewhat high. Perhaps his low-aggression (macro) style makes it so that it's not as possible to get high apm without spamming more.
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On June 26 2011 21:32 XenocideFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 21:30 Yaotzin wrote:On June 26 2011 21:27 7mk wrote:On June 26 2011 21:24 Megaliskuu wrote:On June 26 2011 21:22 Yaotzin wrote:On June 26 2011 21:19 funk100 wrote:On June 26 2011 21:15 Megaliskuu wrote:Its kinda sad that people can be top players with 130 apm though . 130 APM is enough to do all you need to do in Sc2 if you use it efficiently. Well, for now. I think it's gradually changing though. Can you keep up with MMA's multitasking with 130apm? Doubtful. For comparison's sake, is there a similar list for BW progamers? I've put alot of reps into bwrepinfo before, and it seems a good average is around 400-425, with EAPM of around 220-250. But then there are guys like stork who are slow, and guys like hero who are ridiculously fast (but still do terrible). a list like this should be compared to BW foreigners though, and I'm pretty sure that in BW there were several decent foreigners who had below 200 apm Yeah the Koreans in general are much higher. An average Korean top 10 would probably be 350 or something. This post is just wrong. MC, Bomber, July, were all at that tournament. They're nowhere near 350, they're top Koreans. Top koreans don't "average" 350.
The way I interpreted it, you're actually the one that is wrong. They were talking about BW. BW means Brood War, which isn't the game that you are talking about. Your mention of those players refers to SC2, which means StarCraft 2. They are not the same game. True, there are Koreans in both, but "top 10" doesn't combine both games...
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I wonder why all the great eroupeions have such low apm, where they not used to LANs or somthing? I wouldn't think so with the LANS they have been to but they didn't do well either. How does this compare to their apm on bnet?
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On June 26 2011 23:06 Veritassong wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2011 21:15 Megaliskuu wrote:Its kinda sad that people can be top players with 130 apm though . can you tell me how it is sad? sc2 is a different game where they made it so you have more time to think about strategy rather than bringing ur new workers to work. Sc1 was just a battle of mechanics, aka "who is the better machine".
Worst post I've ever read on TL.
Both games require insane timing and strategy, one just requires a bit less mechanics, and before you call me a BW elitist, I only play sc2 now, I'm just saying it would be good for the competitiveness of the game if it took a bit more.
Maybe I'm just bitter because I play zerg..idk..
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According to the Liquipedia sAviOr had relatively low APM by progamer standards and still he's one of the bonjwas in Brood War, so APM is meaningless.
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i think you could add average game lenght perhaps? that'd be cool
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On June 27 2011 02:15 lyAsakura wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 02:12 ganil wrote:On June 27 2011 01:57 obesechicken13 wrote:On June 26 2011 21:40 Megaliskuu wrote:On June 26 2011 21:37 Caladbolg wrote:On June 26 2011 21:24 Megaliskuu wrote:On June 26 2011 21:22 Yaotzin wrote:On June 26 2011 21:19 funk100 wrote:On June 26 2011 21:15 Megaliskuu wrote:Its kinda sad that people can be top players with 130 apm though . 130 APM is enough to do all you need to do in Sc2 if you use it efficiently. Well, for now. I think it's gradually changing though. Can you keep up with MMA's multitasking with 130apm? Doubtful. For comparison's sake, is there a similar list for BW progamers? I've put alot of reps into bwrepinfo before, and it seems a good average is around 400-425, with EAPM of around 220-250. But then there are guys like stork who are slow, and guys like hero who are ridiculously fast (but still do terrible). Hyuk is another high apm guy with arguably more success than hero. Seen him get 500+ average in a game (peaking at high 600s). Zerg seems to require the highest apm as well, similar to how I perceive the average to be in SC2 (although admittedly, it seems that Protoss and Terran do benefit more due to their micro tricks). A large chunk of BW apm was for macro and rally resetting (other large components were multitask and micro tricks). I wonder where merz's 470 goes to? Watching the FPVOD of someone like Select or Huk, the APM seems to go to multitask and micro. On the other hand, someone like Major or Idra seem to put more time in base management. As a Zerg BW player, alot of apm comes from going 1click 2click 3click 4click 5click 6click 7click 8click 9click to move your army around the map, I was a shit C/low C+ player but I averaged 340-360 apm just because moving mass ling armies added lots of actions. I have to agree, the reason why the APMs are so low compared to BW, is just that macro and micro has gotten so much easier and faster. It takes maybe half the time to perform the actions required, but only a quarter of the actions to do something. I played on iccup less than 2 seasons with no prior SCBW experience. I suck at rts game. I'm slow as hell I play super safe and standard. ... I got C with sthg like 140~150 apm average (3 hatch spire into 5 hatch hydra vs P and 2 hatch muta 3 hatch hive vT, ZvZ is weird so I had no real planned build here). You don't need a high apm to do basics builds and win a lot. rep and iccup id? i call bs
It's not that hard to be a C zerg with 150 APM, why would you call BS on it?
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On June 27 2011 05:56 Meteora.GB wrote:
According to the Liquipedia sAviOr had relatively low APM by progamer standards and still he's one of the bonjwas in Brood War, so APM is meaningless.
Low apm relative to other bw pros. Not low overall. It's not like savior was playing at 150 apm or anything.
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I'm sure BW was the same way as this... top pros had relatively low apm when the game was first released.
As the game evolves, people will find ways to make more apm useful. 2 years from now, I'm betting you won't see too many < 150-200 apm pros.
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Only once with insane spamming I got my APM to 300, I couldn't imagine doing a game with 300+ APM average that is just crazy!!
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EPT
