What I would like to talk about is "Which finger do you use for numbers (Units, buildings, hatcheries, etc) and how that correlates to the efficiency of your APM.
I use my middle finger for 1-3 number and index finger for 4-7 or even 8. I sometimes have a problem though, when my index finger goes all the way to 7 or 8, I have harder time to retrace back to 1 and 2 with my middle finger which are used for my main units like most of you.
I believe that if you can implement your "Ring" finger for 1 and still use your middle finger for 2-3 and the index finger for the rest, will give you the better idea of where each button is. My idea was derived from playing the piano. You always use same fingers for same keys, therefore, you can instinctively locate the keys very fast without too much mistakes.
I am also curious how many of you have the same problem and do you think that this will enhance the efficiency of your mechanics and performance of you game?
On June 23 2011 01:18 fritos wrote: What I would like to talk about is "Which finger do you use for numbers (Units, buildings, hatcheries, etc) and how that correlates to the efficiency of your APM.
I use my middle finger for 1-3 number and index finger for 4-7 or even 8. I sometimes have a problem though, when my index finger goes all the way to 7 or 8, I have harder time to retrace back to 1 and 2 with my middle finger which are used for my main units like most of you.
I believe that if you can implement your "Ring" finger for 1 and still use your middle finger for 2-3 and the index finger for the rest, will give you the better idea of where each button is. My idea was derived from playing the piano. You always use same fingers for same keys, therefore, you can instinctively locate the keys very fast without too much mistakes.
I am also curious how many of you have the same problem and do you think that this will enhance the efficiency of your mechanics and performance of you game?
I played piano + violin (asian -.-) too! I do the same thing in terms of finger positioning! :D
I am practicing using my ring finger for 1 now but the coordination of that finger just seems so awkward compared to the middle and index finger... I guess I have to get used to it
My fingers are far from consistent in which presses what. Normally I have ring-middle-index resting on 2-3-4, but I move my hand around a lot, so I'll move it over and tap 5678 which is nexus-warpgate-robo-star, and then back to micro my army around. I'm trying to avoid using my index finger for everything, but it's so hard when it's just so much more capable than the other 3. I think I'm actually gonna start playing games where I just don't use my index finger, but I'm sure that's going to feel impossible at first.
On June 23 2011 01:27 Kovaz wrote: My fingers are far from consistent in which presses what. Normally I have ring-middle-index resting on 2-3-4, but I move my hand around a lot, so I'll move it over and tap 5678 which is nexus-warpgate-robo-star, and then back to micro my army around. I'm trying to avoid using my index finger for everything, but it's so hard when it's just so much more capable than the other 3. I think I'm actually gonna start playing games where I just don't use my index finger, but I'm sure that's going to feel impossible at first.
Well, the point that I was trying to make is, use 3 fingers instead of 2. And try not to move your fingers around too much because that will cause the time loss and inefficiency . But rather they should be stationed for the same keys.
I use all four fingers. Is there a reason you guys do not? Is it inefficient to use your pinky? Pinky for 1/a/f1/ctrl, ring finger is pretty much only for 2/f2, middle finger for e and 3/f3, index for everything else.
Over about 100 games on sc2gears my APM is around 150
I use my ring finger for ^-2, middle for 1-4 and F1/F2, index for 2-7 and F1-F3. It's pretty easy for my left hand to navigate because the ^ key also marks the end of the keyboard (also maybe because I'm a lefty). I guess it's again all about practice.
i'm a guitarist and i do the same thing, little finger does ctrl+shift then ring finger does 1, middle 2+3, index 4,5,6,7 and then i have 8,9 and 0 on Q,W and Z respectively for which i use my middle finger.
unit hotkeys basically the same, i use finger according to how far along the keyboard a key is.
Maybe I got small hands, but for me Crtl ( with little finger ) + 1 ( with ring finger ) is impossible and takes me atleast 2 seconds try hard. Because of this I do it with the middle finger on 1.
I have no problems retracing back to 123 since I actually started with that kind of key placement in BW (Ring 1, middle 2, index 3). I had problems trying to select between I and O back then due to the distance (Siege tanks and mines).
I solved it by dragging my fingers along the number keys (Not too hard for the keys to register), I would then know where to stop.
In SC2, i dont find similar kinds of hotkey problesm since they are just so at the left lol. If I however need to hotkey 7890, i use the right ctrl with my thumb instead.
Am I the only idiot that uses my index finger for the hotkey and my thumb for the letter keys? Like hatch or cc on 2 and thumb on S for larva or scv. I've tried really hard to switch to the norm but half way through the games when the APM gets going my thumb just sneaks its way back up. I'm at the point where I'm just going to accept it the way it is, it doesn't really limit me at all anyways.
On June 23 2011 01:32 gogatorsfoster wrote: I use all four fingers. Is there a reason you guys do not? Is it inefficient to use your pinky? Pinky for 1/a/f1/ctrl, ring finger is pretty much only for 2/f2, middle finger for e and 3/f3, index for everything else.
Over about 100 games on sc2gears my APM is around 150
I use my pinky on a, shift and control. I don't use it on F1, esc, `, tab and 1 because it creates a sort of arc towards the top left corner of the Keyboard which makes it fairly difficult to utilize the funcitons on the left side of the keyboard quickly. By using the ringfinger you really only need to open up your hand, so your pinky is still in a decent position to hit a, shift, caps lock, and control.
I usually use my ring on 1,2, middle on 3, and index on 4+, though I overlap my middle finger onto 2 and 4 sometimes. I'm used to doing things like that from guitar.
I have 1/2/3 for units I am currently microing, whether that be my scouting probe, army, or a group of phoenixes I am harassing with. I have my Ring, Middle and Index finger so that Ring-1 Middle-2 Index - 3, unit abilities I hit with my thumb and shift with my pinky.
I have 4 set to my production - Robotics/Stargates, which I hit with my Index, Voidray I hit V with my thumb, phoenix I use my index so I don't accidentally hit carrier, also I can quick chrono with C.
For wargates I hit W with my middle finger, Sentry/Tempar with Index, Middle for Stalker/DT/Zealot
And I have all my nexuses hotkeyed to 5, although I used to hotkey my nexus 5,6,7,8 and I would hit those with my index.
I used to play piano as well. Playing the piano for many years gives you a certain dexterity and strength in the Pinky/Ring fingers many people may not have developed, since it is never used. My apm spikes to 300 but I only usually play at 70-90 (ingame apm)
On June 23 2011 01:32 gogatorsfoster wrote: I use all four fingers. Is there a reason you guys do not? Is it inefficient to use your pinky? Pinky for 1/a/f1/ctrl, ring finger is pretty much only for 2/f2, middle finger for e and 3/f3, index for everything else.
Over about 100 games on sc2gears my APM is around 150
I do this. Only real reason is that I played P in bw. (Have to have large hands to be able to use the 0 and P keys all the time). My apm is ~120 in sc2, 170 bw, 160-200 hon.
I hit 1 with my ring finger and 2 with my middle finger and 3-6 with my index finger and the pinky for ctrl and shift stuff. I have units for 3-6 and i use 1 for CC/Nexus/Hatch and 2 for production facilitys or queens. I use my pinky for hitting A and Z, Middle finger reaches S and my index finger will reach anything to the right of S. My apm average is around 200-220ish, if its a good game ill have 250 apm which rarely happens.
There was a really good post here a few years ago with pics and gifs about the most effecient way to use the keyboard. I can't find it but I will try to explain, but it'll be kinda hard.
The spoiler is a diagram of a hand with the fingers labelled to avoid confusion + Show Spoiler +
anyway the jist of it is that when you do the 1a2a3a4a5a6a7a8a9a stroke, you strike 1 and 2 with your ring finger, and then switch to 3 and four with your middle finger, and then strike numbers 5 and up with your index finger, with your pinky obviously hitting A.
After that, the way many terran players set up is to have their cc's set to 1, their production set to 2, army is 3-7 or 8, and the upgrade buildings or special stuff in 8,9, and 0. to build SCVs, you use your middle finger on one, and your index finger for S. You can also span this early and easily get your apm to 300 sc2, and never miss an early scv. When I tab through my production, i'll hit 2 with my middle finger, tab with my ring finger, and the A and S with my middle finger and D, E, R, G and T with my index finger (i think that covers everything.).
the reason why I assign production to 1 and 2 is because even though I can move my hands quickly (my apm is like 120 - 140 SC2) my hands are fat and it's difficult for me to hit 1a2a quickly and effeciently. if I start with my army at 3, 3a4a5a6a7a8a9a is really easy to hit, even though I never have that many control groups for my army, I think the highest I ever go is 7.
Protoss is a little different since you can select all of your warpgates with W. I usually select my gateways to 1 before they morph, and hit 1 with my middle finger, and Z,S, and E with my index finger. Nexus are always 2, since 2e2c is a very easy keystroke. Army is again 3- whatever, and ups are the higher keys, which is inefficient, but you're aren't selecting those buildings nearly as often as the others, so I think it's ok. When you have warpgates, your stargates and robos will likely change. I hit W with my ring finger, Z with my pinky, S with my ring finger, and E with my middle finger, so the keystroke goes: wzse for warpgate, Zealot, Stalker, Sentry, but will probably look more like: wzzzzssssssssseeeeee or wsssssssszzzzzzzzzzeeee or weeeeeesssssssssszzzzzzz depending on the situation of course.
EDIT: Oh yeah, check out this Day[9] podcast about hotkeys and mechanics. It was made a few years ago, so it focuses on BW, but everything he talks about is directly applicable to SC2.
On June 23 2011 02:03 Kenitek wrote: I hit 1 with my ring finger and 2 with my middle finger and 3-6 with my index finger and the pinky for ctrl and shift stuff. I have units for 3-6 and i use 1 for CC/Nexus/Hatch and 2 for production facilitys or queens. I use my pinky for hitting A and Z, Middle finger reaches S and my index finger will reach anything to the right of S. My apm average is around 200-220ish, if its a good game ill have 250 apm which rarely happens.
Everygame i see you in your APM is drastically lower then that...
I have my thumb on numEnter for Orbitals, ring/middle/index on num7/8/9 workin a modified grid setup along with the index pulling double duty for numPlus/NumMinus being Rax/Fax/Ports and Tab respectively.
On that home row my ring accesses PgDown and my pinky is for [Up]
Slide my hand 2key rows directly to the left(index/num7) for full access to the PgUp/PgDwn and Directional pad keybanks with the index still working the grid. slide back when done.
This MSG brought to you by -
The right side of the keyboard, where the spacing is done for you and every damn key isn't slightly at an angle and slightly out of reach
My hot keys are 1,2,3 are hatchery: 4 is my queens: 5,6,7 is my units: and 8,9,0 is overlords. I use my pinky for 1, ring finger for 2, middle finger for 3, and for the rest of the numbers I use my pointer finger. I always thought it was much easier/ efficient to use my pointer finger for my units because it always an easy way for my pinky to do actions quickly after hitting 5,6, and 7 (the actions I talk about are 5a6a7a or 5a6a7h, etc..). I am a top 8 master league level player, and my APM is typically around 180.
I'm pretty sure I use my ring finger on (1, 2) my middle finger for (3, 4) and my index finger for (5, 6, 7) and realistically anything past that though they're in minimal use...
I for sure use my pinky on (ctrl, shift) and if I ever have need of alt I think I use my thumb...
I'm also a guitar and piano player and my apm is somewhere around 140-150 most days though I don't actually think that my instrument playing affects my keyboard movements, I have my hand in some pretty awkward positions playing guitar alot of the time which I would never get into with a keyboard...
I would suggest not using 7-0 and resetting your hotkeys. Like I use caps lock, ~, and other keys instead of 7-0. I went from ~100-120 sc2 apm to 160-180 apm.
On June 23 2011 01:43 kNyTTyM wrote: how exactly do you hit 1a2a3a with middle finger on 1?
well i personally use my ring finger to hit 1 then i use my ring finger to hit a then middle finger 2 ring finger a, middle finger 3, ring finger a. sometimes ill use my index to hit 3. but i usually use that for 4
I always aim for my unit compisition at the end of the game to be marine / tank, so I have my tanks on 2 and my marines on 1. I have all of my barracks on 3, my factorys on 4, my command centre on 5 and my starport on 6, and I mainly sit with my ring finger on 3, my middle finger on 4 and my index finger for 5 and 6.
The 6 hotkey is a bit awkward for me but I used to have all of my units on 1 hotkey and it is much easier to micro when I can just press one button and have access to all of my tanks.
comming from a guitar background i find SC correlates very well to the strengths my hands have developed through guitar as opposed to lets say a piano. With your right picking hand (mouse) your wrist becomes stronger (unless you play using your arm which is horrid technique) which i figure would help your wrist from being tired while playing sc. your fret hand is the one that is used to make obscure patterns and stretching and what have you which is why i dont mind having my hotkeys to up to 0 for evo chambers and can easily press 0 and ctrl at the same time.
i feel piano would not help in the same way as guitar considering your right hand is your primary melody hand while your left is the power hand for chords unless you play SC left handed but piano traditionally (or vice versa). However all in all stretching your hand across the keyboard should not be hard and you should be able to press 7-8 at least while holding control. you could have like small hands or something and then maybe its worth it to rebind your keys, but honestly do what you want.
i use pinky for shift and ctrl (ring if i need both at the same time). ring finger for tab, and 1. middle for 2 and 3. index for 4-0. thumb for anything to the right of (and including) v, and space.
On June 23 2011 02:39 Intricate1 wrote: you guys are weird,
I have my thumb on numEnter for Orbitals, ring/middle/index on num7/8/9 workin a modified grid setup along with the index pulling double duty for numPlus/NumMinus being Rax/Fax/Ports and Tab respectively.
On that home row my ring accesses PgDown and my pinky is for [Up]
Slide my hand 2key rows directly to the left(index/num7) for full access to the PgUp/PgDwn and Directional pad keybanks with the index still working the grid. slide back when done.
This MSG brought to you by -
The right side of the keyboard, where the spacing is done for you and every damn key isn't slightly at an angle and slightly out of reach
I like your thinking. I did the same thing, just with a different part of the keyboard. Either is much better than the default setups. Not sure why more haven't caught on. I use Base J, btw.
On June 23 2011 01:43 kNyTTyM wrote: how exactly do you hit 1a2a3a with middle finger on 1?
I can't believe people actually still use the "a" key for the attack command... I switched that to the space bar as soon as I got the game... o.O so much more efficient.
The default keyboard layout and hotkeys are nowhere near optimal. It amazes me how many professional players don't customize their hotkey setup to their personal needs. Makes you wonder how much better they would be if they spent just a day figuring out a good hotkey setup that isn't as "all-over-the-place" as the default.
On June 23 2011 01:43 kNyTTyM wrote: how exactly do you hit 1a2a3a with middle finger on 1?
I can't believe people actually still use the "a" key for the attack command... I switched that to the space bar as soon as I got the game... o.O so much more efficient.
The default keyboard layout and hotkeys are nowhere near optimal. It amazes me how many professional players don't customize their hotkey setup to their personal needs. Makes you wonder how much better they would be if they spent just a day figuring out a good hotkey setup that isn't as "all-over-the-place" as the default.
What about the default space functionality? (go to last place where something significant happened)
On June 23 2011 01:43 kNyTTyM wrote: how exactly do you hit 1a2a3a with middle finger on 1?
I can't believe people actually still use the "a" key for the attack command... I switched that to the space bar as soon as I got the game... o.O so much more efficient.
The default keyboard layout and hotkeys are nowhere near optimal. It amazes me how many professional players don't customize their hotkey setup to their personal needs. Makes you wonder how much better they would be if they spent just a day figuring out a good hotkey setup that isn't as "all-over-the-place" as the default.
I've been playing RTS since long before BW, however until SC2 came out I was always primarily an FPS gamer. For that reason, my hands have long forgotten the ASDF homerow of truly effecient typing, and my left hand always falls on ctrl-A-W-D. My pinky is pretty handicapped when it comes to reaching anything other than ctrl or shift, but I have no trouble punching 1/2/F1 with ring, 3/4 with middle, and 4/5+ with index. I play around 210 (realtime) apm, however I tend to spam like a mofo :|
I play guitar so my whole 5 left hand fingers are all active. I dont have much preferences like you guys, like 1a2a3a with middle finger. Sometimes I do it with pinky and ring, sometimes middle + ring or middle + pinky. They're all equally active, so as long as I remember the position of keys, I do it quite ok.
I play Protoss, 5 Nexus, 4 Gateways, 3 Robo and/or Stargate, 2 special units like HT or scout or DT etc, 1 for main army, 6 for upgrades, 7,8,9,0 spams with observer or something i need in urgent.
I don't play with the "normal" hot keys (for example 9 is on Z) and I have changed almost every other key bind in the game as well so I really only use my middle and index-fingers. I think that my ring- and pinkyfingers are far to weak for my "hard" keyboard (I use some keyboard I got with my computer, and I like it, but it wasn't made for gaming either).
Personally I use just hotkeys 1-5. Hotkey setup like empire.kas, 5 cc/4 production buildings/1-3 units.
I use my ring finger for 1, middle for 2, index for 3. But when I move up to my production buildings (4/5). I use my index finger for 5 and my middle finger for 4. This basicly creates two groups, units and buildings. It allows me to move within those groups extremely quickly.
As for getting used to using new fingers, I'm sure you're familiar with spamming at the start of games. Spam a little at the start of the game, using those fingers, this will increase the dexterity and strength of those fingers. Imagine you are doing something in-game, go between 1 - 5 - 4 - 1 - 5 - 1 - 3 - 2 - 5 - 4 - 1. Just do that, before you know it you'll be improving those mechanics.
I believe that if you can implement your "Ring" finger for 1 and still use your middle finger for 2-3 and the index finger for the rest, will give you the better idea of where each button is. My idea was derived from playing the piano
Wait, people don't use their ring finger for one? What do they use? Middle finger?
Personally I use pinkie for ctrl+shift, ring for tab+tilde+1, middle for 2+3, and pointer for 4+5+6(sometimes).
I use the Command button on my Mac keyboard instead of the Ctrl key, so I keep my thumb on that and pivot my hand around it. My hand rests naturally with my pinky on the shift key, and my ring finger, index finger and pointer finger sit on 1 through 4.
Creating a fast early game spam really gave me a feel for my keyboard and gets me into a good rhythm for macroing as the game goes on. Early on I spam 3-4-5, and bounce back and forth between my scout/early units and production quite often. At first it was a little akward, but I really noticed an improvement in my play once I got used to it.
I have Ring-Middle-Index on 3-4-5 and spam it as much as I can all game. By doing so, I keep an eye on my Nexuses, Production, Upgrades, and a special unit set. I extend my ring finger down to use 1 and 2 for army control, and my index finger down for 6, 7 and 0 for specialized production and upgrading. I use my pinky for ctrl and shift.
I spam at about 300-350 APM really early, usually settling at around 150-200 average when the game really gets going. During intense lategame situations I'll spike back up to around 300, sometimes over. I used to average around 80-120 APM, but after getting used to spamming really early I noticed my performance, especially lategame, improve dramtically.
Key assignments:
1 - Main ground army (Zealot, Stalker, Sentry, Immortal, Collosus)
2 - High Templar almost exclusively late, but will use to split an early Gateway army or assign to Collosus.
3 - A harass unit, Observer, split army to deal with drops or air units, which I like to have in my continuous spam so that I remember to pay attention to them.
4 - Nexuses
5 - All production and upgrade structures. Warpgates take priority over all others, so I use this to produce out of Warpgates only. The other structures are included in just to keep an eye on them.
1-Main army 2- Ranged units or secondary army 3- cute units HTs/prisms/pheonix etc.. 4- proxy pylon 5- all nexus' (use F keys to get around) 6- gateways 7- robo 8- stargates 9 and 0 observers and scouts
Ok, I guess I’m way offffff…. I type reports all day long (somewhat of a typist) and so I’m pretty use to using my pinky. When I play SC2 my hand lays in the exact same position as it does when I’m typing. It starts out on ASDF, with my pinky on A. I also use the grid layout and not the default setting for hot keys. So for me the attack key is T. The reason I did this was that way I could play all the races, and the buildings and attacks would be pretty much the same across the board. That way if I ever decide to transition into another race it’s relatively easy. For example, probes, scvs and drones are all Q.
1 – 1-3 for attack units 4 – CC 5 – Unit producing buildings 6 – Tech Station Upgrades 7 – Unit Upgrades 8 -0 – Whatever I want, but I don’t typically use these that much. I do have 8 bound to the side of my mouse and sometimes use an scv for that one. That way I can double click it and build a building quicker.
I do tab a lot, but I’ve gotten good at it. I don’t even think about it.
As far as which fingers I use for each key. My pinky hits 1, ring 2, middle 3, index 4-7. For typing it’s usually 4-6, but I don’t like taking my fingers of my mouse ever.
My APM is between 90-100, but this is also my first RTS game ever. I haven’t played anything else. I come from FPS.
So what I’m saying is…I use my pinky all the time : )
I think generally people will have their fingers in diggerent places. But, I do use my thumb for B and V. It was hard in the beginning but it really helped my game speed, and I dont have to replace my hand that often anymore.
I like this idea but it seems pretty hard to assign units to control group one in this case. Hitting ctrl with your pinky and 1 with your ring finger seems like it would be a pretty big stretch for a lot of people. This is really neat though!
EPT
![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/823/handstop2.jpg/)
