On July 03 2011 08:53 cekkmt wrote: this a thousand times. I loved playing the BW AI because ( as far as i know) it doesn't use cheats, it was just infinitely mechanically superior to me. In some daily Day9 said that the standard is the way to get a maximum army value, and any interesting tricks took away from that standard army value. so program the standard into the AI for each race, and simply limit its APM to perform that standard depending on the difficulty.
That's not true, in BW AI, I can easily beat 2, or even 3 AI at the same time. Also, I have no problem in beating 2 Blizzard Very Hard AI in Starcraft 2. But GT AI is much harder to deal with even on 1 vs 1 on Medium difficulty if it choose the right build.
How can you say it's not true that the BW AI was a finite-yet-significantly superior to him (since I'm sure you understand that he used a hyperbole)? He was not saying that SC2 AI sucks and BW didn't.
What he seems to be saying is that he sucks (at both SC1 and SC2), and wants much easier versions of GTAI. Even though I'm aware that you probably do not specifically desire an easier mode for GTAI, I don't think you wish to disallow such a thing to occur for them.
that said,
On July 03 2011 08:53 cekkmt wrote: In some daily Day9 said that the standard is the way to get a maximum army value, and any interesting tricks took away from that standard army value. so program the standard into the AI for each race
Is it possible to have it updated on the NA server? I love using 0.86, but I would like the up-to-date version. Thank you for this great tool! Love it.
On July 02 2011 18:58 Siretu wrote: * Do you code in GUI or Galaxy? * How much do you use the built-in AI commands and how much do you actually do yourself? * Do you use the Issue Order or Issue AI order for the orders?
- I coded in galaxy file. - The built-in AI commands is not enough for creating AI, so I creating my own function and variables that can be more useful. You can find these on the GT AI core folder. - Most of action in game used by the Casting system ( AICast function ),
These new features included in the GT AI 0.92 version:
_ Creating your own strategy and add in to AI. Also you can upload and share these new strategies with your friends. => The AI basically is not strong enough, but as you improved it, the AI will be a lot better with your Strategies.
On July 01 2011 18:34 Sevenofnines wrote: Frankly, to build a real AI, none of the difficulty levels should have income cheats OR map hack.
If you get rid of a lot of the junk builds and just focus on some core solid builds the AI should be able to macro flawlessly. Add in a micro-bot for some sick micro and that will already be quite a challenge even without counting strategy & tactics. Basically the AI should be mechanically superior to any human but strategically and tactically inferior. Adding in the strategy and tactics decisions when the AI has incomplete information (no maphack) would be the final stage.
IMO there needs to be a smoother difficulty curve. Right now the jump from medium to hard to very hard to insane is too much due to the ridiculous income cheats and map hacks. It's far better in the long run to do away with such gimmicks and actually make the AI react to scouting information. But that's for the strategic/tactical programming. As far as a basic method of differentiating difficulty, its easy enough to program in some common mistakes that players of lower levels have. For instance:
-Every time a worker finishes building, set a random number of seconds between say 0 and 20 before it starts the next worker. You can do a similar thing for production buildings. This approximates the Bronze League mistake of forgetting to make workers and/or constant production out of production buildings. Add the delay into more things like MULES, Injects, Chronoboosts, etc. and you basically have bronze league macro.
-Add a condition where the AI doesn't build units/workers when its fighting. Another common mistake.
-Add in occasional supply blocks.
-Add in floating minerals/gas and not enough production buildings.
etc.
Once you've added these mistakes for the AI, the difference in difficulties can be managed simply by toggling these conditions on or off or tweaking the numbers. For instance, the Very Easy AI would have all of these conditions on. The Easy AI might have the worker/production delay between 0 and 10 seconds instead of 0 and 20 and perhaps the supply block condition toggled off. The Medium would have constant worker production, not get supply blocked, and enough buildings, but forget to build stuff during battles. So on and so forth.
Pretty much everything here I agree with.
Easy and Medium should both not have vision, and income cheats should be independent of difficulty setting (eg. make it something that can be toggled: "-ic 20" for a 20% income cheat).
I will be testing out this AI later after work. With my internet being in terrible shape it should give me some nice practice.
PS. What is the song that plays in the micro video? It sounds like a song from an anime series, but I would like to know what it's name and composer are
Hey man I am a big fan of this a.i and most people I've shown have been blown away! I agree with some statements about no map hacks and money cheats. I am wondering though, I downloaded the recent version I think 0.89 on crevasse? and about 10 .87 and every time the game starts in the text on the left one of the lines says. Cannot find unitdata.xml (a.i Micro disabled) I'm not sure why it does this, the a.i is still sick. But roaches don't micro or or marines don't split like on the video. Is there something extra I am supposed to download?
@chip789: Because these map missing the Unitdata.xml file. You can watch this video to see proper method to import the AI Script into map:
Then you can test it by pressing Ctrl + F9 in SC2 Editor or uploaded on Bnet by yourself.
I will thinking of modify the difficulty, but you can see that on the Hard level or above, AI don't get any bonus at the beginning (except Insane AI), So it still use the standard opening and you won't feel much different compare with Medium AI until 10 minutes after.
Alright so I was messing with this today and found that the AI macro's well, but doesn't respond well to typical muta harrass.
Basically it allowed me to take out all of it's production without ever moving marines to defend. I almost thought it was just gonna go counter attack since in the middle of my harrass he moved out toward my base, but then it just ran back. Seemed very indecisive.
I don't know if you can program the ai to react correctly to Muta harrass though, when not in combat or moving seige tanks should seige at tthe front of base and marines should go chase off the mutas. I basically won the game off of doing typical muta harrass and that's it. :O
(PS. Would still like to know what the first song in the micro video is)
Thanks ptanhkhoa though I haven't even touched the map editor yet....I've encountered this on every single GT AI map iv downloaded on bnet on north american servers...does that mean NA doesn't have a legit working Green Tea map? Cause I've searched hundred times for every GT AI map and all of them do the UnitData.xml error, I guess since I do care for this a.i I will follow your instructions and load them onto bnet. Perhaps someone with more experience could also assist?
On July 08 2011 14:22 chip789 wrote: Thanks ptanhkhoa though I haven't even touched the map editor yet....I've encountered this on every single GT AI map iv downloaded on bnet on north american servers...does that mean NA doesn't have a legit working Green Tea map? Cause I've searched hundred times for every GT AI map and all of them do the UnitData.xml error, I guess since I do care for this a.i I will follow your instructions and load them onto bnet. Perhaps someone with more experience could also assist?
I actually didn't get that error in the Shattered Temple .9 one I downloaded that Antman put up.
@Atlas_950: It seems that map missing some defend function (some of beta version). I just tested Terran AI vs Mutalisk harass and i see it used Marine to defense base.
The song in the Micro video is remix version of original classical music: Beethoven's Virus and Pachelbel's Canon.
I noticed while playing against the 0.9 version AI; the AI attempted to repair its hellions after a battle, but they set off across the map to attack again with the SCVs in hot pursuit!
Could you set it so that units being repaired are immobile unless being attacked?
@darkness: the uploader is Nexxy. One's of my scripting partner. @iHirO: I see, I will add the function to stop the units being repaired from moving in the next update.
A fun match of Terran vs Protoss Green Tea AI in Medium difficulty.
On Na Server, what is the title and author of the most up to date Green tea Ai Map? Latest and best working one I've found is 0.92 on Crevasse. Still does UntData.xml error though.
I think the terran 1 rax expand build should be thrown out, or at minimum modified. AI is just not properly build to be able to execute the build.
It built only 1 marine, build command center before bunker, and build a gas after barracks, all of which are terribly stupid things to do (although the late bunker is fine IF the opponent has no attacking units)
What's just as crazy, is the next game I played, terran seems to do the same build, except because I had some zerglings outside of the main, he suidiced his marine and a bunch of scvs. The weird part is that the AI then said "Atlanta: Want to play again, please?" or something like that. This is weird for 3 reasons: 1. It gave up because it couldn't fast expand, even though I didn't enter his main and threaten it in any way (aside from denying expansion). 2. I haven't seen a commander reveal their name for ages... (in fact never in these later versions) 3. Atlanta is a mixed-ground unit commander, not a fast expand commander... why would it run 1 rax gas expand?
Another time I played terran, it just stopped producing most stuff, if not everything, after a certain period of time (I looked at the end-game score screen that there was just an ass-load more unspent resources than me, when normally I would have like 5 times more unspent than them. I don't know what caused the problem though.
Lastly, the AI doesn't seem to respond well against expansion blocking (pylon, depot, creep, burrowed), although it's hard to say. Definitely has huge problems deal with gas steal. Sometimes it seems to act strange on it's own though regardless of (without) blocking stuff.
On July 10 2011 05:07 chip789 wrote: On Na Server, what is the title and author of the most up to date Green tea Ai Map? Latest and best working one I've found is 0.92 on Crevasse. Still does UntData.xml error though.
If you don't want build order recording feature, I think 0.87b is a good version to use- the uploaded 87b maps by lysergic don't have the micro problem. Otherwise, you should download the green tea AI yourself, follow the instruction to apply it to any map, and play via the map editor, or even upload it to battle.net.
EPT
