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Blizzard: Out of touch? - Page 9

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Benkestok
Profile Joined July 2010
Denmark63 Posts
June 12 2011 08:09 GMT
#161
Im glad they dont listen to the majority of the community, i mean, look at this thread and its topic. Drawring conclusion out of the thin air, claiming that collosus is the most boring unit ( Immortals are WAY more boring, they are just the /a unit). Whining about imbalance 247, and what not. Just see what Blizzard did to WoW, when they started listening to the players.
Serpico
Profile Joined May 2010
4285 Posts
June 12 2011 08:10 GMT
#162
On June 12 2011 15:22 AxionSteel wrote:
FFS, how dare rushing be a part of a game.

It's more than just a part of the game. It's so common it's boring and predictable.
Voltaire
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1485 Posts
June 12 2011 08:12 GMT
#163
If Blizzard designed the game around making units interesting rather than making them work well with the game I'm sure it would be far far worse than it is now.

As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities.
Darksoldierr
Profile Joined May 2010
Hungary2012 Posts
June 12 2011 08:12 GMT
#164
On June 12 2011 17:09 Benkestok wrote:
Im glad they dont listen to the majority of the community, i mean, look at this thread and its topic. Drawring conclusion out of the thin air, claiming that collosus is the most boring unit ( Immortals are WAY more boring, they are just the /a unit). Whining about imbalance 247, and what not. Just see what Blizzard did to WoW, when they started listening to the players.



They put back Ring of Valor arena when 99% of the community hated it?
What do humans know of our pain? We have sung songs of lament since before your ancestors crawled on their bellies from the sea.
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10333 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-12 08:14:58
June 12 2011 08:13 GMT
#165
It's random enough to a point where the results of the poll are easily skewed. This entire thread is worthless in my opinion, and proves nothing about what the developers do or don't know about imbalance. All this thread has done is quote a few interviews where the message could really be skewed either way. Also, it says only China's pro players are complaining about balance, yet everyone else is oblivious?

I'm sorry, but I fail to see how this is a valid discussion about balance in any type of way. Quoting and attacking the developers is definitely not helping.


It seems our use of the word "random" has created a misunderstanding.

He was saying that 356 is a "random sample" in the way that it represents the 3 million players accurately enough since the 356 are "random".

However, I was pointing out that 356 voters all from the same website and community cannot possibly represent the 3 million players nearly as accurately as if they were randomly picked, hence my post.

So I agree with you but I think you misunderstood me.

Edit:

Unless you were more replying to the poster I quoted, rather than me.
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
hoby2000
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States918 Posts
June 12 2011 08:18 GMT
#166
On June 12 2011 17:13 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Show nested quote +
It's random enough to a point where the results of the poll are easily skewed. This entire thread is worthless in my opinion, and proves nothing about what the developers do or don't know about imbalance. All this thread has done is quote a few interviews where the message could really be skewed either way. Also, it says only China's pro players are complaining about balance, yet everyone else is oblivious?

I'm sorry, but I fail to see how this is a valid discussion about balance in any type of way. Quoting and attacking the developers is definitely not helping.


It seems our use of the word "random" has created a misunderstanding.

He was saying that 356 is a "random sample" in the way that it represents the 3 million players accurately enough since the 356 are "random".

However, I was pointing out that 356 voters all from the same website and community cannot possibly represent the 3 million players nearly as accurately as if they were randomly picked, hence my post.

So I agree with you but I think you misunderstood me.

Edit:

Unless you were more replying to the poster I quoted, rather than me.


Yeah, I misunderstood you. We definitely agree, haha. I was also kind of replying to the dude you quoted too I guess?
A lesson without pain is meaningless for nothing can be gained without giving something in return.
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4838 Posts
June 12 2011 08:18 GMT
#167
On June 12 2011 17:05 darkness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2011 14:31 jalstar wrote:
Immortals ARE more boring than Colossi, it's just that Colossi are much more "noticeable" because they're big and do lots of damage, and immortals just kind of sit there.

But you barely have to micro immortals because of hardened shield, while if you don't position and micro colossi well they'll get killed by vikings or corruptors in a few seconds.


I couldn't agree more. I hope more people realise this.

Really? I find Immortals very interesting units. It's just that they're bad. They're the quality of unit I'd expect to warp in, but instead they build in place from a more expensive production center.
My strategy is to fork people.
Serpico
Profile Joined May 2010
4285 Posts
June 12 2011 08:23 GMT
#168
On June 12 2011 17:09 Benkestok wrote:
Im glad they dont listen to the majority of the community, i mean, look at this thread and its topic. Drawring conclusion out of the thin air, claiming that collosus is the most boring unit ( Immortals are WAY more boring, they are just the /a unit). Whining about imbalance 247, and what not. Just see what Blizzard did to WoW, when they started listening to the players.

You're comparing balance of a MMO to a RTS? They have to balance PVE and PVP with the same skillset and it's a completely different genre...There's too much content to only test internally.
Gheed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States972 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-12 08:27:49
June 12 2011 08:25 GMT
#169
Remember when they removed shakuras from the ladder pool because they thought it was too easy to get your natural up?

(4)Shakuras Plateau
This map we decided to remove for a different reason. There isn't a huge problem with this map, but we felt there aren't enough interesting features of this map. The natural expansion is easy to take and defend; there are only two possible attack paths only one of which is generally used, and main bases aren't easy to harass. For a change, we wanted to replace this relatively plain map with something new.


And then they proceeded to add slag pits, the ugliest joke of a map, to the map pool. Of course they added shakuras back later, but only after everyone complained. I think that they generally don't know what we want, or the people who do know what we want have no way or are bad at communicating it to those who can make it happen.

Edit: also, rocks. Someone at blizzard has a rock fetish. I don't know who is giving them positive feedback on the rocks.
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10333 Posts
June 12 2011 08:29 GMT
#170
Yeah, I misunderstood you. We definitely agree, haha. I was also kind of replying to the dude you quoted too I guess?


Haha cool let's say that

@Gheed

That was a weird ass situation report. But from that, I learned and realized and was reminded that (as should others) different people in Blizzard handle different things (wow really?).

For example, whoever wrote the part about Slag Pits being a macro map was probably not David Kim. Same thing for Shakuras. It was probably the map designer or someone else. Heck, it might have even been a communication error (Slag Pits a macro map? huh?).
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
Ruscour
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
5233 Posts
June 12 2011 08:31 GMT
#171
Balance is not easy. No-one here can release patch notes that everyone can agree on. There are very few RTS games that have the balance that SC2 has. Although BW is the pinnacle of balance, it's had a very long time to be balanced, and things were back and forth. In WC3 there are still imbalances.

A lot of what they are talking about is game design rather than balance.
Rococo
Profile Joined May 2011
United States331 Posts
June 12 2011 08:32 GMT
#172
On June 12 2011 17:05 Severedevil wrote:
Marines and Goliaths were both simple, interesting units that worked fine in the same race in Broodwar. Although they controlled very differently.


Goliaths didn't have stim and weren't made at a barracks, or healed by medics, and as you say they controlled quite differently. You make a good point, and I nearly mentioned that the extent of unit overlap in BW was between the Goliath and Marine, but they were still more distinct than the marauder and marine.
lcl
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom119 Posts
June 12 2011 08:32 GMT
#173
Thats not a very scientific vote. all youve really done as is ask some people and got the answer you wanted. 400 people does not account for the community and presumably the people that voted were just people that dont like or cant deal with the colossus (i didnt bother voting as its clearly pointless).

I also dont think that the issues sen raised were generally problematic. while rush speed is pretty fast in sc2 - so too is the general game speed pretty high so defence is in place faster.

This is a giant qq thread but instead of specific complaints you have generalized it to just everything that you dont like.
The more I practise the more luck I seem to have
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
June 12 2011 08:33 GMT
#174
I wouldn't say they are out of touch, ignorant but not out of touch. I wish they cared more then what they do now as right now its just kind of not very existent. I feel they should have added replay sharing, clan support but for some reason its just so hard for them it makes me sad :/.
When I think of something else, something will go here
L3g3nd_
Profile Joined July 2010
New Zealand10461 Posts
June 12 2011 08:35 GMT
#175
Guys, who gives a shit about balance, rushing is too easy? pff who cares.

THE OVERSEER ISNT COOL ENOUGH
https://twitter.com/#!/IrisAnother
Iyerbeth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
England2410 Posts
June 12 2011 08:35 GMT
#176
Honestly I think the Roach is one of the most 'Zergy' Zerg units available. They're cheap and fairly quick, they utilise burrow in a really cool way and they're specialised for a role. I think most animosity towards them comes from the fact they stole the Hydra's spot in tier one personally.

The Marauder is another unit I think is quite cool, though the speed they can stim down buildings bugs me a little I don't think that makes it uninteresting.

The Colossus though..range 9, sit at the back of the army with no micro required unless something gets to it, walk away from melee and massive damage by virtue of just a-move, that in my opinion is an uniteresting unit.

The thing is though there'd be 0 chance of this interview, this far from HotS saying "We're going to be changing/removing the Colossus" because that'd be all that's bitched about by a lot of people from now until months after release. I strongly suspect they picked the most mundane examples in case it was brought up so as to not get the usual floods of crap they get until they could actually show the changes working. For instance, would anyone really be upset to see the Overseer changed or removed for something else?

I hope Protoss get something really cool and interesting to replace the Colossus, even 2 units if that's what it takes, but as it stands that unit is boring and there's no chance of something like that being announced yet.
♥ Liquid`Sheth ♥ Liquid`TLO ♥
noelsusman
Profile Joined March 2011
United States19 Posts
June 12 2011 08:39 GMT
#177
Anybody who agrees with the OP needs to go watch the actual video of Dustin Browder's interview. The text does not fully convey what Dustin was trying to say with his answers. In fact, I don't know where these transcripts came from because they are not word-for-word what Browder said.

He responded to the question about stronger rushes by saying he has not heard that feedback before and it does not align with his experience, but he will bring it up with the balance team as something to consider. The whole "SC2 is not BW" thing was a response to a question about unit pathing, specifically clumping of units compared to BW. The interviewers kept asking him questions comparing SC2 to BW, so Browder responded by saying they are different games. BW had a horrendous interface and AI system. Browder's point is that SC2 fixed most of those problems and any differences that arise from that are just part of the game. It's not something that they are willing to change just to make it more like BW.

Finally, the Immortal and the Overseer were just examples of units that didn't work out as they had planned. I am confused as to where you got the notion that those two units are Blizzard's highest priority for fixing. Browder didn't say anything like that at all.

Please, just go watch the actual video of the interview. Those transcripts are garbage.
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
June 12 2011 08:39 GMT
#178
--- Nuked ---
Dismantlethethroat
Profile Joined March 2011
114 Posts
June 12 2011 08:44 GMT
#179
Pros will always complain because all they care about is winning, and not the game.
Cybren
Profile Joined February 2010
United States206 Posts
June 12 2011 08:46 GMT
#180
GSL and ladder maps have rucks.

Blizzard maps are labyrinthine systems of destructible rocks with the occasional base that lacks any defensive advantages.
The open steppe, fleet horse, falcons at your wrist, and the wind in your hair.
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