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Don't get me wrong, the game is actually quite well balanced, but the design of the game is terribad. In my opinion terran is the only well designed race. Protoss is just one big joke (not talking about imbalance), FFs are ridiculous, colossi are boring, blink micro is too efficient and the warp in mechanic is ruining the whole race. Protoss needs a whole new rework. Zerg is not even finished having the least amount of combat units.
Watching this interview it kinda looks like Dustin Browder was looking down on the guys pointing out the imbalances. He pretends he was giving a shit, but from the bottom of his heart he's just thinking "shut up you retard, we won't change anything anyways". Maybe it aint like that, but it certainly feels that way.
I just hope that Heart of the Swarm will be much, much better. Wings of Liberty is so disappointing.. I literally stopped playing, because the game design is pissing me off more and mroe and I was close to gettin to grandmasters.
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"We have no plans to implement LAN support at this time..." Yes they are very very out of touch. In terms of balance, I honestly don't think anybody can say if they are or not. Many people claim that Zerg is UP. However, recent results on ladder/tourneys say other wise.
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On June 12 2011 15:53 Golgotha wrote:
dude changing the speed of the hydras would have a dramatic effect...we can finally freaking stutter micro them and run away when off creep. currently, if you commit in an engagement with hydras off creep, you are forced to fight to the death because they can't run at all.
i wish they would make ovie speed faster so we can lift up hydras and run away; as it stands now...ovies are stupid slow.
Welcome to every PvZ engagement ever (on protoss side).
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Another thing...I do agree that the meet-ups with Sen and the pro-gamers are near useless. Why meet up with the top pros if Blizzard is not even going to listen to them? They ARE in their own little world. I believe the only reason they meet up with the pros is for PR to show the public that, "we are listening to you guys!", which really isn't true.
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On June 12 2011 16:44 Arangar wrote:
a tiny note, in a game with this many players - quoting a poll with 356 answers means nothing...
356 players out of 3 million players is a pretty good sample if it is randomly sampled FYI.
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Let's look at another situation, where we have banshees against marines. In a straight up fight, the marines will definitely win the fight. Yet, if the banshee has cloak, the situation would be different. Let's look at yet another situation, marauders against stalkers. If both sides a-move, clearly the marauder will win. However, if the stalker has blink, and uses blink well, the situation might turn out different as well.
was he serious with this statement? or did he forget the fact that marauders have fucking stim AND conncussive shells? even with super heavy blink micro, marauders will win every single time. and that is WITHOUT MEDIVACS.
now lets add medivacs to this situation. im willing to bet not even a single marauder will die. do these guys have any idea on how to play there own game? no ammount of blink micro in the fucking universe will save u against stimmed concussive shell marauders when its pure marauder vs pure stalker.
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On June 12 2011 16:53 lofung wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 16:44 Arangar wrote:
a tiny note, in a game with this many players - quoting a poll with 356 answers means nothing... 356 players out of 3 million players is a pretty good sample if it is randomly sampled FYI.
Also if it is properly questioned and relevant, which it is not. Would also help if the responses were not shown for all to see.
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On June 12 2011 16:51 Daimai wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 15:53 Golgotha wrote:
dude changing the speed of the hydras would have a dramatic effect...we can finally freaking stutter micro them and run away when off creep. currently, if you commit in an engagement with hydras off creep, you are forced to fight to the death because they can't run at all.
i wish they would make ovie speed faster so we can lift up hydras and run away; as it stands now...ovies are stupid slow.
Welcome to every PvZ engagement ever (on protoss side).
Protoss can sacrifice a ton of Forcefields to retreat.
Of course, Zerg can sacrifice a ton of Zerglings or Fungals to do the same.
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356 players out of 3 million players is a pretty good sample if it is randomly sampled FYI.
Teamliquid is not a random sample.
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On June 12 2011 16:28 DisaFear wrote:
Hmm, wonder why people dislike Roaches and Marauders. I don't see anything wrong with Marauders at least
It's essentially a jumbo-sized marine mostly distinguished by a limitation (can't shoot up), its armor/damage type, and a passive that negates micro to some extent and counters melee. The Roach has a similar kind overlap with the Hydralisk, although it's actually more interesting than the Hydra because of burrow movement. The reason it gets more negative attention is because it's less iconic. The Immortal overlaps with the Stalker similarly as well. It's a bulkier, higher damage stalker with a different damage type, a severe limitation, and a gimmicky passive that makes it counter tanks and such.
These are all indicative of a slightly AoE-ish approach to design, whereby you take an existing unit and superficially change it so that it has a different set of counters.
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I agree with blizzard that SC2 is not broodwar. It shouldn't be just broodwar in a new engine, but it should be superior to BW.
One of my problems with units is that a lot of them are very boring right out the box with exception of spell casters.
Zealot just pretty much just a melee unit, similar to a zergling w/o speed. Stalker, roach, marauder are very uninteresting right out the box. Things like stim/concussive shell/blink makes things interesting.
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On June 12 2011 16:58 Hikari wrote:
I agree with blizzard that SC2 is not broodwar. It shouldn't be just broodwar in a new engine, but it should be superior to BW.
One of my problems with units is that a lot of them are very boring right out the box with exception of spell casters.
Zealot just pretty much just a melee unit, similar to a zergling w/o speed. Stalker, roach, marauder are very uninteresting right out the box. Things like stim/concussive shell/blink makes things interesting.
I disagree with you about the Zealot. It's intended to be a meat shield unit, with a very different strategic application than the zergling.
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I think SC2 lacks the depth that bw had. Me and all of my friends stopped playing sc2 because of the monotone gameplay. The game lacks reavers, lurkers and in fact its difficult to ever reach a point of the game where you build bcs or carriers.
What im trying to point out is that a lot of sc2 games look the same. Some kind of early timing push 6 mins 8 mins 10 mins, and after that the game is over 9/10 (team games).
I would love it if blizzard added like 6 units to MP and nerfed rush.
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On June 12 2011 16:55 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +356 players out of 3 million players is a pretty good sample if it is randomly sampled FYI. Teamliquid is not a random sample.
Agreed on so many levels.
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On June 12 2011 16:55 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +356 players out of 3 million players is a pretty good sample if it is randomly sampled FYI. Teamliquid is not a random sample.
Still 356 players out of 3 million is a pretty good sample. at least this is a pretty good sample on teamliquid. and if you really want a random sample from the community go out and ask them. most would give u a neutral or negative result obviously.
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For example, the Overseer is not a cool unit, it's basically a glorfied scout at this point. We're looking at either taking out or replacing these units that aren't as cool. The other thing that we need to watch out is how these units interact in combination.
if they take out the overseer they better damn well replace it with a very good scouting unit because the overseer is the best scouting unit we have. since scouting is sooooooo important in SC2 that makes the overseer and the changeling a very critical unit, but the main problem with overseers is that they come to late and there to gas heavy.
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I agree with Dustin Browder on a lot of parts:
they made a game, and the progamers made the builds and all that stuff.
Without high niveau play blizzard really cannot know how the game will turn out, and if stuff like the 5rax reaper build turn up and are completly imbalanced or boring, they will fix it.
For those who simply think BW is better, they should go and play BW.
Personally: I have no problem with stronger rushes in SC2. (if only 2base+ play should by viable, people should just start with 2bases+)
However, I do have a problem with these rushes only being available for 2/3 races once you hit a higher niveau of play, and with to many things being coinflips in the game, what makes it balanced but not really well-designed. Yet I do understand, that some changes just cannot be expected without lots and lots of testing, saying that they will probably occur never, or at least only within of a big gamechange (like an expansion).
On a sidenote: I think people should stop giving their personal opinion about unit X when they talk about gamedesign, as it usually turns out to be:
On June 12 2011 14:26 Herper wrote:
I wonder.. is it viable to bring back the reaver and take out the colossus?
On June 12 2011 14:31 jalstar wrote:
Immortals ARE more boring than Colossi, it's just that Colossi are much more "noticeable" because they're big and do lots of damage, and immortals just kind of sit there.
On June 12 2011 14:32 nalgene wrote:
Will they plan on adding the DA/ Corsair / Arbiter / Reaver back in? They were pretty unique.
On June 12 2011 14:44 AfroJimbo wrote:
Mothership and battlecruiser is what I would consider boring and not all that great.
...
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On June 12 2011 16:56 Rococo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 16:28 DisaFear wrote:
Hmm, wonder why people dislike Roaches and Marauders. I don't see anything wrong with Marauders at least It's essentially a jumbo-sized marine mostly distinguished by a limitation (can't shoot up), its armor/damage type, and a passive that negates micro to some extent and counters melee. The Roach has a similar kind overlap with the Hydralisk, although it's actually more interesting than the Hydra because of burrow movement. The reason it gets more negative attention is because it's less iconic. The Immortal overlaps with the Stalker similarly as well. It's a bulkier, higher damage stalker with a different damage type, a severe limitation, and a gimmicky passive that makes it counter tanks and such. These are all indicative of a slightly AoE-ish approach to design, whereby you take an existing unit and superficially change it so that it has a different set of counters.
Marines and Goliaths were both simple, interesting units that worked fine in the same race in Broodwar. Although they controlled very differently.
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On June 12 2011 14:31 jalstar wrote:
Immortals ARE more boring than Colossi, it's just that Colossi are much more "noticeable" because they're big and do lots of damage, and immortals just kind of sit there.
But you barely have to micro immortals because of hardened shield, while if you don't position and micro colossi well they'll get killed by vikings or corruptors in a few seconds.
I couldn't agree more. I hope more people realise this.
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On June 12 2011 16:55 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +356 players out of 3 million players is a pretty good sample if it is randomly sampled FYI. Teamliquid is not a random sample.
It's random enough to a point where the results of the poll are easily skewed. This entire thread is worthless in my opinion, and proves nothing about what the developers do or don't know about imbalance. All this thread has done is quote a few interviews where the message could really be skewed either way. Also, it says only China's pro players are complaining about balance, yet everyone else is oblivious?
I'm sorry, but I fail to see how this is a valid discussion about balance in any type of way. Quoting and attacking the developers is definitely not helping.
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EPT
