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On June 09 2011 08:24 RuneZerg wrote:
"thats the first time ive heard that rushes are easy and safe" - Dustin Browder, never been 2 raxed :D
2 rax is not a rush. It's a calculated and proper response to a Zerg who wants to get an early economic advantage. It's may be safe, but how well it works depends on how well both the Zerg and Terran player control their units, make decisions, etc.
I think something more like going 2port banshee on 1 base and denying any overlords would fit the idea of a safe and easy rush.
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How bad the maps blizzard put out and the fact that they think rush builds are not strong just adds to my belief that blizzard is absolutely clueless, its like everytime an interview is released i come closer to having zero expectations of actual game balance and a map pool that isnt terrible with rocks and garbage close positions.
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On June 09 2011 11:22 coolcor wrote:
But how much do the centralized b.net servers cost to run for the entire lifetime of starcraft 2?
Blizzard could easily "pull the plug" and then all we could do was play the campaign. Or maybe a natural desaster / terrorist / power outage kills their servers for a significant time ...
In short: the centralized server idea is bad, but I think they will release LAN once the sales drop off significantly (after the last expansion) and let things run their course. Any centralized organization is easily neutralized, but a decentralized one is hard to fully remove ever. If Starcraft 2 is to become a massive eSport we need the second one, but for now it works ok due to Blizzard "pushing the cart" (the GSL) with some sponsorship.
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On June 09 2011 14:09 Scila wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 08:24 RuneZerg wrote:
"thats the first time ive heard that rushes are easy and safe" - Dustin Browder, never been 2 raxed :D 2 rax is not a rush. It's a calculated and proper response to a Zerg who wants to get an early economic advantage. It's may be safe, but how well it works depends on how well both the Zerg and Terran player control their units, make decisions, etc. I think something more like going 2port banshee on 1 base and denying any overlords would fit the idea of a safe and easy rush. Depends on the map, on some maps its just pressure to expand, but on some smaller maps and close positions it is definitely a rush and it can be brutal, also depending on rax timings 11/11 is going to hit harder and be more aggressive then 12/14.
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Dustin knows nothing about BW. Not aware that SC2 rushes were much stronger than BW? Come on.. Unless you 4pool or proxy gate/proxy rax, rushes are rather mellow in BW.
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On June 09 2011 14:12 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 11:22 coolcor wrote:
But how much do the centralized b.net servers cost to run for the entire lifetime of starcraft 2? Blizzard could easily "pull the plug" and then all we could do was play the campaign. Or maybe a natural desaster / terrorist / power outage kills their servers for a significant time ... In short: the centralized server idea is bad, but I think they will release LAN once the sales drop off significantly (after the last expansion) and let things run their course. Any centralized organization is easily neutralized, but a decentralized one is hard to fully remove ever. If Starcraft 2 is to become a massive eSport we need the second one, but for now it works ok due to Blizzard "pushing the cart" (the GSL) with some sponsorship.
Will peer to peer network let people pirate stuff from the map marketplace? That is probably what blizzard is counting on to pay for the servers after the last expansion so I don't think LAN is guaranteed eventually.
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On June 09 2011 11:57 OopsOopsBaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 11:28 Energizer wrote:On June 09 2011 10:03 Whynaut wrote:On June 09 2011 09:40 MuteZephyr wrote:
I still remember that BNet poll on whether or not people like rocks and where. The survey result was a resounding "FFFFUUUUU ROCKS" and Blizz chose to spite everybody and release their new set of maps with even more rocks.
EDIT: LOL, no technology for cross-region... Everybody knows that's a huge pile of crap. WC3 and BW were not beamed in from the future. Blizz should just come out and say they want the extra money, they're not fooling anybody.
Cross region play via centralized B.net servers != Cross region play via distributed p2p connection. BW technology is better in terms of latency, but is nearly impossible to prevent piracy. This is especially relevant since Blizzard tied the SC2 CD to a B.net account, rather than limiting the number of installs. If they were to implement cross server play via p2p tech, parallel ladders (not requiring massive server farms) would quickly spawn (see BW), which would bypass the B.net infrastructure (and hence the 1 account per CD verification). Enforcement is probably something Blizzard can't deal with (see all piracy, anywhere). This would essentially mean that Blizzard would have given away SC2 for free. Surely you don't hold them to that standard? And yet, somehow, blizzard has the technology to allow SEA connect to NA. But for NA to connect to SEA? Impossible! what? you get the same technology to connect NA to SEA if you buy another SEA account.
I think he means how you don't need to buy an NA account if you bought the SEA copy of the game to play on the NA servers.
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On June 09 2011 13:44 DongWang wrote:
I fail to see how Dustin is qualified to design a game. He doesn't have a computer science degree, a art/graphics design degree or any degree/qualification that is useful towards game design and development.. He has a degree in English literature. What the fuck, does that have to do with game design? If anything he should be the dialogue/text editor.
Maybe work on the campaign as a storyboard editor/screen writer...
He should definitely not be, the game designer.
He has way more experience(he's been around the indsutry since 1995 IIRC) and you do know that many of the great minds in gaming don't have those degrees you think qualify people to design games? Gumpei Yokoi(creator of Metroid and the GameBoy) was a janitor FFS!
This is a case where experience > formal education.I can look up more examples if you want, but I do know for a fact that many industry legends didn't really study for videogames because videogames was not really an established concept until more recently.
Shigeru Miyamoto(another example) studied art and wanted to be a Mangaka originally. Seriously, you may not agree with his decisions but DB is quite qualified for game design LOL
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On June 09 2011 13:16 Dommk wrote:
Would rather something like flat damage reduction with High Ground/Ramp advantage instead of miss chance
This has been discussed in the past and there are pros and cons of both methods.
With damage reduction the amount of hits a unit may live through may change in unexpected ways such as having no effect or just scaling strangely. For example an immortal shooting a seige tank can suffer a 20% reduction in damage and still kill the tank just as fast while the same immortal with a 20% miss chance will extend the life of that tank by 25% given a large sample size.
(25% not 20%. If you have a 50% miss = 200% extended life, 100% miss equals = infinite effective health).
Still looking forward to the new terrain mechanics I wish he would provide a schedule of the season start and end times.
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Why didn't anyone emphasize:
Shaquras Plateau has no close spawn. Metalopolis and Shattered Temple shouldn't either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They bounced around the point but didn't really discuss it. This makes me sooooo sad.
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I wish they invited Idra also 
Imagine the drama :D
+ he wouldn't have a problem with listing all his problems with sc2 in a 5min speech :D
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Oh man blizzard just seems really full of themselves in this interview imo.
This is really disappointing =/.
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Disapointed about interviews. Not from communitys part but from Dustin, he seems to be so full of himself and doesn't know about simple facts as that there are certain rushes, or I should probably call them as "early agression", which won't stuck your economy so much.
I hope they will do this internationally also, meaning that they would get Europeans opinion about the game, Koreans opinion about the game and Americas opinion aswell.
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The question is why Sen. (no disrespect)
Sales doing bad in China/Taiwan or something?
Browder really just shrugs questions that would really change the game.
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I don't understand why Dustin is so averse to the idea of trying to emulate certain aspects from BW. Hmm yes let's ignore the best rts of all time.
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Browder is the "face" of starcraft 2 at blizzard. I'm almost certain his role is more management than actually designing. A lead of any creative or technical group rarely does much actual "work", they more-so mediate between the different groups of the development... That being said I'm sure some feedback does pass through him, but I would be highly surprised if he had the "final say" on any issue, let alone balance.
So, cut the rage... Good luck finding a video of similar effect to this from any other major game developer.
<3 Blizzard
Great vid.
edit: just to make it more clear so I don't come off sounding like some "blizzard can do no wrong" fan boy, I genuinely believe Browder was being honest in his answers, and he raised a LOT of good points. When he disagreed with the power of rushes he said he would discuss it more (which is essentially his job, as a mediator.) When they complained about how its harder to watch, it was a good point that the pathing is much better and this naturally leads to more clumping. When they complained about it not being as good as BW, he pretty much flatout said BW is still there if you prefer it...
Most of this thread is complaining about sc2 not being BW... and he has no problem with that. Take it or leave it.
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do you think sc2 is harder to watch compare to BW? unit clumps and AoE spell... (they tried to link this to balance design)
unit clums means not "horrible pathing". For mordern RTS we NEED good pathing and we think its the future. Its is true that its harder to see if unit clumps but we are trying our best to solve that with the UI. About the AoE, i feel like it makes the battle much more fun to watch (micro challenging). If you dont think Sc2 is a good game to watch, BW is still out there and a lots of people still watch it. SC2 is a different game and different people. Please go back to BW if you think sc2 is not suited for you.
Eh, I have mixed feelings about this stance, especially after reading through the thread about dynamic pathing some time ago. I think I read about this part of the interview on a Chinese site the night of the HotS preview embargo being lifted, and I guess the gist of this is that having powerful AoE punish unit clumps looks fun and is challenging to micro against.
However, he does mention looking to fix this through "UI," which is an especially interesting statement. Would there be an auto-spread feature or a formation button? I'm interested to see how they resolve this issue.
Also, it seems that Browder acknowledges that SC2 is not for everyone, especially die-hard BW enthusiasts. Play your preferred game, I suppose.
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That's true, but he doesn't do a good job of being the face. Rob Pardo definitely obliterates any doubt that he's in charge. Dustin feels like he's simply a manager that's given too much PR responsibilty.
He keeps saying he's got nothing, or he's jack shit or he doens't know. It's frustrating to keep hearing this. His retorts are either this isn't SC1, it's SC2. If this game was designed as well as SC1, nobody would complain you dolt.
Imagine if he said this instead:
We recognize that the community has ABCDEFG issues with Zerg, Protoss, Terran. We understand that some might feel this towards that.
So we are focusing our gaze onto these issues and hopefully solving them. We also know there are other issues with the game etc etc etc.
But all he does is we know nothing, we have no good ideas yet. It pisses me off that he keeps going down this DERP approach.
Lack of knowldge in everything doens't look good in leadership, especially if you're the PR guy.
As far as this guy is concerned, the game is perfect, and Starcraft 2 is far from perfect. Yet he doesn't seem to see that.
Sen speaks very politely and is given bullshit back. He said there is a huge consensus in the eSports community that there are problems with the game design. Yet Dustin just pokes fun at his numbers.
To be honest, people have confused balance with game design. Starcraft 2 lacks in game design, not balance. Any game can be balanced through strategy and gameplay, but good game design is hard to come by.
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On June 09 2011 13:44 DongWang wrote:
I fail to see how Dustin is qualified to design a game. He doesn't have a computer science degree, a art/graphics design degree or any degree/qualification that is useful towards game design and development.. He has a degree in English literature. What the fuck, does that have to do with game design? If anything he should be the dialogue/text editor.
Maybe work on the campaign as a storyboard editor/screen writer...
He should definitely not be, the game designer.
he could just be smart. degree means jack shit if you're good.
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"feedback from our forums"
ooohhhhh ggodddddd nooooooooooooooooooooo.
The BNet forums are a terrible, terrible, terrible place
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EPT
