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Coming from a WoW background, addons are like a second nature to my online gaming.
It has been recently brought to my attention that there are some things that can aid you improve your sc2 game style. SC2Gears for example, has a nice set of tools to help you improve over time. Such as game analysis and an in game APM alert system.
What other suggestions of similar programs would you give?
Here are some nice suggestions done so far:
http://sites.google.com/site/sc2gears/
In depth replay and game analysis, for full futures list: http://sites.google.com/site/sc2gears/features
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are such things an in game APM alert system cheating?
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On May 29 2011 19:36 ectonym wrote:are such things cheating?
Not any more cheating than razer headsets are.
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On May 29 2011 19:34 Cthun wrote:
Coming from a WoW background
Stopped reading right there.
On May 29 2011 19:36 ectonym wrote:are such things cheating?
Yes, and pretty useless too.
What a terrible thread. RTS will never have addons.
User was temp banned for this post.
User was warned for this post
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There are no programs that can help improve your game.
You can analyse your replays with sc2 gears (and an APM alert is very dumb imho) and watch them with sc2 itself.
You don't need much more except of playing many games, watch pro streams, watch day9 and all that stuff.
SC2 isn't like wow. It's a competition most of the time.
So forget about addons as I am not quite sure if the APM alert in sc2gears is legit (if they calculate them by itself ok but if it is read from sc2 memory than it's against Blizz rules).
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On May 29 2011 19:36 ectonym wrote:are such things cheating?
No. SC2Gears is completely legit and you cannot get banned for using it.
As from a moral point of view... I cannot say. I see it as keeping me on my toes, not giving an unfair advantage over my opponent (as cheating would do).
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On May 29 2011 19:37 jstar wrote:Stopped reading right there. Show nested quote +On May 29 2011 19:36 ectonym wrote:are such things an in game APM alert system cheating? Yes, and pretty useless too. What a terrible thread. RTS will never have addons.
How can you judge a thread when you only read five words in the original post?
Anyhow, there won't be much more than the APM alert. Blizzard designed SC2 to be like traditional RTS, that means no customizable UI and so forth. The minimap is where it is, the supply is on the opposite corner (which doesn't make sense beyond that it's traditional). Sure, some leeway was given with the in game timer but.. meh. I don't think there will be anything more that isn't considered cheating, let alone anything that makes you a better player.
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I personally use this old tape recorder during my games which plays a 3 seconds loop of Day9 saying "pylons and probes", but I'm not sure if you can call it an addon, it sure gets the job done though
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On May 29 2011 19:40 vyyye wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2011 19:37 jstar wrote:On May 29 2011 19:34 Cthun wrote:
Coming from a WoW background Stopped reading right there. On May 29 2011 19:36 ectonym wrote:are such things an in game APM alert system cheating? Yes, and pretty useless too. What a terrible thread. RTS will never have addons. How can you judge a thread when you only read five words in the original post? Anyhow, there won't be much more than the APM alert. Blizzard designed SC2 to be like traditional RTS, that means no customizable UI and so forth. The minimap is where it is, the supply is on the opposite corner (which doesn't make sense beyond that it's traditional). Sure, some leeway was given with the in game timer but.. meh. I don't think there will be anything more that isn't considered cheating, let alone anything that makes you a better player.
You bring up some interesting points m8. An option to re-arrange your UI would be rather cool to have. Besides, the game doesn't come to check how rapid is your eye movement, as it tests multi level thinking, quick decision making and strategy. UI is not part of either.
On May 29 2011 19:42 TuthurZ wrote:
I personally use this old tape recorder during my games which plays a 3 seconds loop of Day9 saying "pylons and probes", but I'm not sure if you can call it an addon, it sure gets the job done though
That made me lol so hard (: I can relate.
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Well in WoW you got addons for everything... They told you were the next attack of the boss is going to land with colored circles, gave you timer for everything, told you were to walk etc.
I as a former WoW player was really mad when the game was made ridicliously easy due to that in WOTLK and i sincerly hope that none of that BS will find his way into sc2
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There are no programs that can help improve your game.
Maybe not directly, but I can imagine some "add-on" like tools that would really *help* me improve my game. For example, I would like to see how many drones I have at any given time. You can already do this by
a) remembering
b) counting
c) adding them to a hotkey group them when you build them
But all three of these methods have their obvious flaws. I don't really see the harm in allowing UI modifications and alternate information displays. Heroes of Newerth has these, for example. Add-ons only use information available to the player in the first place, so all they do for you is display it differently or more convenient.
Does this make the game easier? In a way, sure. That's why add-ons are not allowed in tournaments. In fact, HoN has a tournament mode that automatically diables all your add-ons. Obviously any competitive play is done in this mode.
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On May 29 2011 19:42 TuthurZ wrote:
I personally use this old tape recorder during my games which plays a 3 seconds loop of Day9 saying "pylons and probes", but I'm not sure if you can call it an addon, it sure gets the job done though
This is so genius, I've GOT to try this while practicing.
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On May 29 2011 19:42 TuthurZ wrote:
I personally use this old tape recorder during my games which plays a 3 seconds loop of Day9 saying "pylons and probes", but I'm not sure if you can call it an addon, it sure gets the job done though
Hahahaha this is too cool. Surely you'd be unbeatable? 
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Being in a position where I have been both very high ranked on the NA ladder (~#210 NA/#800 world max at one point) and having been on 2500+ arena teams in WoW, in addition to top 100 guilds, I would say I have a decent background both in WoW (land of addons) and SC2.
Background asid, I think it is obvious that addons exist that would dramatically improve one's play. One may say that one can raid/arena as effectively without addons as someone with them - but face it, with equal skill, the player with the addons will win more.
Imo an APM alert for SC2 would be pointless. What would be nice is a sort of ingame transparent notepad - write down your BO with its timings, and various other timings you consider important. Have different "pages" hotkeyed - i.e. alt + 10 + enter triggers page 10, etc. If anything else it may serve as an anchor to prevent yourself from overreacting.
Speculation aside, and aside from I think, the undeniable fact that addons can't hurt you if used wisely and properly, I don't think addons should be present in competitive SC. There is a reason there are no addons in competitive WoW arena. There's just something about the knowledge that what you are seeing truly is one's unaided, unadultered skill - skill and knowledge relating only to the game itself, and not to addons which may be updated, stop working properly after patches for a bit, or simply be rare and known to one person but not to another. I for one used many inhouse addons for instance.
Just my 2 cents.
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On May 29 2011 19:50 MuazizTremere wrote:Maybe not directly, but I can imagine some "add-on" like tools that would really *help* me improve my game. For example, I would like to see how many drones I have at any given time. You can already do this by a) remembering b) counting c) adding them to a hotkey group them when you build them But all three of these methods have their obvious flaws. I don't really see the harm in allowing UI modifications and alternate information displays. Heroes of Newerth has these, for example. Add-ons only use information available to the player in the first place, so all they do for you is display it differently or more convenient. Does this make the game easier? In a way, sure. That's why add-ons are not allowed in tournaments. In fact, HoN has a tournament mode that automatically diables all your add-ons. Obviously any competitive play is done in this mode.
very nice post. I completely agree with this.
One must remember that not everyone strives to achieve competitive level of play. Some simply don't have the time for it, others are not interested. Something like this would satisfy the needs of everyone.
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I would like graphic addons for menus and game.
I always wanted something like this
+ Show Spoiler +
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@EtherealDeath: there is a tool that makes your BO overlaying 
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On May 29 2011 20:17 Tuczniak wrote:I would like graphic addons for menus and game. I always wanted something like this + Show Spoiler +
oh my gawd...this made my day
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On May 29 2011 20:17 Tuczniak wrote:I would like graphic addons for menus and game. I always wanted something like this + Show Spoiler +
omg i laughed so hard xDDD
awesome....
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
I don't think we will see many addons in SC2 most things you need can be done outside of the game
( my little notepad of build orders for example ) although i have seen many strange things involving a secondary monitor including a giant mini map...
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On May 29 2011 20:17 Tuczniak wrote:I would like graphic addons for menus and game. I always wanted something like this + Show Spoiler +
Genius! xD
On topic: I'm not too sure how i feel about addons that make the game easier. Since an addon such as for example something that makes your queen inject automtically is something that is directly simplifying the game to a level that it isn't even funny.
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On May 29 2011 20:20 MollocH wrote:@EtherealDeath: there is a tool that makes your BO overlaying
Like how?
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I think that blizzard has already implemented exactly what you want. Custom maps have an incredible amount of flexibility and meet pretty much all the requirements laid out in the thread so far:
1) Optional (both people have to choose to play a custom map)
2) Completely customizable
3) Doesn't affect competitive play (even laddering can be viewed as casual competition)
As far as I know, you can pretty much access all of the in-game information in custom maps and the UI can be bent pretty far (see starjeweled).
I think the big thing that is missing is the dedicated developer community for this type of function. Just my opinion though.
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Things that might help your overall gameplay:
- Build order "objective-list" such as in YABOT.
- Resource warner, alarms you when your minerals or gas goes over a set limit.
- Unit queue counter. Adds up the total resources spent on queued up units that aren't yet in production, teaching you the value of not queuing units.
- Custom UI, such as movable minimap, command card, unit screen.
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On May 29 2011 20:20 MollocH wrote:@EtherealDeath: there is a tool that makes your BO overlaying
What is this tool called?
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:S i think addons would make starcraft 2 ridiculously easy.
Compare it to BW where you had to pretty much tell it to do every little thing, starcraft 2 is a walk in the park (with how the mechanics are easier and stuff).
i think there's very little work left in starcraft 2 from the players point compared to broodwar, and addons would minimize that even more.
its called a mental checklist for a reason.
WoW on the other hand, i don't even know where to start... its already infested with addons and stuff and if we're talking arena; really addons are only UI modifications at that point (meh sure cooldown timers, names, scrolling text idk).
i think addons have a home in WoW, maybe in D3 (hopefully for sure in d3), but in sc2? no i dont think so :S atleast for me i wish people would stop looking for buffs and just play the game and get better. just my 2c
edit: right, sc2 has "addons" via custom maps? but that doesnt let you bring BO lists, Action reminders etc into ladder. and i think thats how it should stay.
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On May 29 2011 19:34 Cthun wrote:
Coming from a WoW background, addons are like a second nature to my online gaming.
It has been recently brought to my attention that there are some things that can aid you improve your sc2 game style. SC2Gears for example, has a nice set of tools to help you improve over time. Such as game analysis and an in game APM alert system.
What other suggestions of similar programs would you give?
Very good replies in this thread that cover almost everything that you need to improve your game.
Having played competitive WoW (it sounds like a bad joke and I'm sincerely embarrassed ) a long time ago I can tell you that there are no addons in the same sense. The only thing that can compare is actual cheating.
Also as a last comment that you should keep in mind, in SC2 you level up yourself - Your skill, your speed, precision, build order and game sense - not your character.
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On May 29 2011 20:17 Tuczniak wrote:I would like graphic addons for menus and game. I always wanted something like this + Show Spoiler +
LMFAO. wow.
dude. put this over my scv heads and i will CONSTANTLY make scvs. not even joking
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I like addons since I (just) want some eyecandy. However Blizz would need a lot of effort to support addons and also policies and restrictions,etc... which if not designed carefully would ruin the game.
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WoW and SC2 are simply different games. What might be okay for an MMORPG isn't for a competitive 1-on-1 skill-based game.
Imagine an overlay showing you the inject timers of each Hatchery. Oog.
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Well isn't this nice - how many helpful people are on these forums (:
Thanks for the links kNightLite, I will make sure to check them out, sc2builds.com especially.
Also as a last comment that you should keep in mind, in SC2 you level up yourself - Your skill, your speed, precision, build order and game sense - not your character.
If one could "thumbs up" a post, I'd do that (:
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I've updated the main post with the links given here.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx229/Tuczniak/Screenshot2011-05-2913_01_37copy.png)
