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Honestly it really has more to do with the fact that moving to korea alienates you from competing in a lot of the other tournaments. What is essentially being compared is the korean SC2 market to that of the rest of the world. Even if there are more mini-tournaments in korea, it won't change the fact that there will be more opportunities in the foreign scene. You simply can't expect one nation to match this huge disparity in aggregated economy and population interested in SC2.
In fact at this point I don't see much that GOM can do to bring more foreigners into korea.
On SoTG Idra stated that he will not compete in GSL even if he was given that free Code S spot + all expenses paid covered trip for a whole month for the reason I have stated before. He is justified but I mean what more can GOM do to reel in high-profile progamers such as himself? Free seeding into ro4 of Code S? That makes no sense. He has a better chance in foreign tournaments and there are a lot more opportunities for him to compete in.
The way I see it, the only incentive for people to go to Korea now is if you have a genuine interest in Korean culture and want the experience of living a pro-gamer life in the place where it all started.
If you're simply hoping to compete in a lot of tournaments and make a lot of money, for most progamers, going to Korea would not be the ideal choice.
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Korea is sort of the "last level" of the SC2 Competitive Scene Video game. If you're winning in Korea, then you know you're on top. It's always been sort of exclusive to the rest of the foreign community because, well, it can be. I don't think the smaller number of foreigners is a bad thing. It promotes the migration of only the best of the best to Korea.
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good read!
thank xeris for the insight 
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Go to korea to prove yourself the best, if all you want is money, you don't go. It's as simple as that. If you want to become an sc2 bonjwa, or prove that you're the best of the best, you will go. If right now your priorities are towards making smaller winnings, or finances, than Korea isn't right for you, that's basically what it boils down to. My question is where is the pride in our foreigners.
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On May 18 2011 09:06 JoeSchmoe wrote:
Honestly it really has more to do with the fact that moving to korea alienates you from competing in a lot of the other tournaments. What is essentially being compared is the korean SC2 market to that of the rest of the world. Even if there are more mini-tournaments in korea, it won't change the fact that there will be more opportunities in the foreign scene. You simply can't expect one nation to match this huge disparity in aggregated economy and population interested in SC2.
In fact at this point I don't see much that GOM can do to bring more foreigners into korea.
On SoTG Idra stated that he will not compete in GSL even if he was given that free Code S spot + all expenses paid covered trip for a whole month for the reason I have stated before. He is justified but I mean what more can GOM do to reel in high-profile progamers such as himself? Free seeding into ro4 of Code S? That makes no sense. He has a better chance in foreign tournaments and there are a lot more opportunities for him to compete in.
The way I see it, the only incentive for people to go to Korea now is if you have a genuine interest in Korean culture and want the experience of living a pro-gamer life in the place where it all started.
If you're simply hoping to compete in a lot of tournaments and make a lot of money, for most progamers, going to Korea would not be the ideal choice.
I agree with this. Simply put, the opportunity costs are too great. Another thing I would like to add is that being a top level gamer outside Korea gives you no guarantees that you will be successful there. There are too many good players in Korea competing for prizes. Less competition & more money outside Korea, not to mention that the scene is growing rapidly. It will be interesting to see how the Korean invites will do in MLG; if they have success, I can see a lot of Korean gamers venturing outside Korea in all the big tournaments ala ST.Ace, Moon.
The scene needs to grow in Korea. I'm not sure how the new KESPA & Blizzard agreement will affect SC2 for Ongamenet & MBC Game, but if things remain the same, I can't see big incentives for foreigners to move there.
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To be honest I don't really care that much about korean sc2. It's just not interesting to me as I think the foreigners can play at a level that at least comes very close to the top of the korean community. And since I know the back story to most foreigners and it's a lot easier to figure out stuff / go through interviews with them I find it a lot more interesting to follow. So I don't really mind if a BW scenario were to pop up where the Koreans do their thing and the foreigners to their thing.
However I do get that the players especially get pissed over the MLG partnership because it's just plain unfair but to be honest it's not the biggest deal to me as a spectator.
700th post btw .. yey! haha .p
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If you are succesful in Korea though it would make you more money than any of these foreigner events. The Koreans seem to do fine enough in the NASL as well so if you get used to the latency perhaps you could win even more.
I don't like loser attitude many foreigner pros seem to have like "If koreans come to MLG they'll win it every time" or "If I go to korea there is no chance of me making money =(((" I don't think they are better than foreigner players, maybe some are, but not that big of a gap yet. InCa made it to the GSL finals ffs xD
I do understand though however if you have obligations like work/school casting etc etc or if you just like the foreigner scene more sure stay by all means but don't keep saying it's because you'll just do bad vs koreans that is a terrible attitude to have when playing professionally.
Also it can't be that bad for organizations to have some people over there as the foreigner scene will follow the foreigners like a stalker when they participate in the GSL. I didn't care much for HuK before he went to Korea but now I'm a fan and I give him mad props for staying in Code S, hopefully he'll do well there. Same for Jinro although it's been going worse recently I'll be cheering him on in the Code A.
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online based code a.
this is brilliant!
or perhaps there should be online code b and leave code a the way it is?
another change, loser bracket!(though unrelated) this will surely make the ro8/4 more epic.
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On May 18 2011 09:34 Kentakky wrote:
I do understand though however if you have obligations like work/school casting etc etc or if you just like the foreigner scene more sure stay by all means ...
I'd argue that if this is your situation and you're not already one of the best (NaDa) than you're not ready to go to Korea for the right reasons. Koreans sacrifice their LIVES to become progamers in scbw, if you want to win, and you want to win consistently, you need to make the sacrifice, and put forth the work to do it. You shouldn't expect to do well in ANY tournament if it's not your focus, the fact that people do just shows how lackadaisical the sc2 scene can be.
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A lot of good replies here, let me offer my two cents.
I think this could be solved by thinking a bit outside the box.
For example:
1) Set a rule that requires GSL teams to have at least X (maybe 2) foreigners. This has been done in sports before and, while I am not sure GSL teams would be happy about it, might just work.
2) Set a rule that requires GSL teams to have a foreign team as a GSL partner, OGS-TLAF style. Which is a possibly more palatable version of option 1).
It would be helpful to know what teams actually offer a wage to players and how much (roughly) they pay though. I mean if players are not willing to go due to financial reasons, it must mean that they don't get paid much by their team no?
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First of all:
Online based Code A would be a terrible idea, there would whine so much whining about lag that no one would participate online anyways.
Secondly.
This all boils down to Korean competition being too tough, such that no one feels it's worth their investment because they feel they can't win it?
A direct Code S for all the Top 4 of MLG would be a waste when invitees can't even pass Code A.
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On May 18 2011 09:45 Kazeyonoma wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 09:34 Kentakky wrote:
I do understand though however if you have obligations like work/school casting etc etc or if you just like the foreigner scene more sure stay by all means ... I'd argue that if this is your situation and you're not already one of the best (NaDa) than you're not ready to go to Korea for the right reasons. Koreans sacrifice their LIVES to become progamers in scbw, if you want to win, and you want to win consistently, you need to make the sacrifice, and put forth the work to do it. You shouldn't expect to do well in ANY tournament if it's not your focus, the fact that people do just shows how lackadaisical the sc2 scene can be.
Well isn't MKP kinda doing that now for SC2 but you are right about sacrificing a "normal" job to go play a game for a living.
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Wow, great read and it made me consider many things that I had never thought of
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On May 18 2011 04:56 Xeris wrote:
So far, no Korean has ever had to qualify for a foreign event, but every single foreign has had to qualify for a Korean event. This is a big problem!
Where to even begin...actually, I won't.
Stop throwing random statements like they mean something.
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I would DARE to say that we can't necessarily take inControL, IdrA, and Tyler's opinion as the gold standard just because InControL has his own commitments with NASL and his gf back in America, same with Tyler and his wife, and IdrA LEFT korea because he wanted something new, why would he suddenly go back.
As for foreigners not getting any invities to anything, that's absurd. Code A has already had a bunch of invites. You might complain why it's "only" Code A, but hey, even the invitees can't even make it past sometimes, how do you warrant them getting a straight Code S when they'll probably just go to the up/down matches immediately.
Tyler brings up a good point with the bracket and points. Perhaps Koreans have to advance a certain amount before getting any points?
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Actually the top finishing foreigner in the top 3 will get into code S.
Sorry Xeris but this write-up was not well thought out. If there is no foreigner in the top 3, a 4th code A spot will be handed out as well. GOM is not at fault for the price of travel. They are doing what they can.
Foreign audiences deserve a foreign player worth being a fan of and we have yet seen no one of that calibre. Idra being held as one of the top foreigners shows the sad state of western starcraft.
But thankfully we've got some up and comers on the horizon who are putting in the training and it's started to show in their results.
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On May 18 2011 10:01 NHY wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 04:56 Xeris wrote:
So far, no Korean has ever had to qualify for a foreign event, but every single foreign has had to qualify for a Korean event. This is a big problem! Where to even begin...actually, I won't. Stop throwing random statements like they mean something.
you're nitpicking on a single line from his whole argument which isn't too far off the mark. stop derailing an otherwise useful discussion.
i agree with what xeris has outlined.. but i think it'll take a bit of restructuring of the whole GSL to make it realistic. frankly i feel invites into code s, or invites into champ bracket of MLG just isn't "fair" to the locals. there are so many who have to fight through open brackets in MLG or code b/a just to get a shot at a decent prize pool, so if these invites are actually highly skilled, they should have to go through the qualifications anyways. the only problem here is that the GSL lasts a month, compared to a 3 day MLG, which means a lot less commitment on behalf of the koreans. of course i think this can be remedied either by restructuring the GSL, or simply having more tournaments in korea (which is completely out of our hands).
perhaps we'll see some foreigners make the move over to take the risk that there will be more tournaments popping out now that the kespa-blizz shenanigans are over, and going over there to establish yourself now can mean great payoffs later on rather than having to start new a few months down the line... but it's a huge risk not necessarily worth taking considering the scene out here nowadays.
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On May 18 2011 09:24 Kazeyonoma wrote:
Go to korea to prove yourself the best, if all you want is money, you don't go. It's as simple as that. If you want to become an sc2 bonjwa, or prove that you're the best of the best, you will go. If right now your priorities are towards making smaller winnings, or finances, than Korea isn't right for you, that's basically what it boils down to. My question is where is the pride in our foreigners.
Pride doesn't pay the bills. If you read the Op you'd see more reasons why it's a bit more difficult than just getting on a plane.
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Good post. Want to share my thoughts.
Korea has a big supertournament with the biggest prizes each month. Its only worth it if you are top 5 foreigner, because you have a legit chance at winning. If you are not, then yes its not worth it to live there for the sake of winning money, but instead you can look at it as an experience that includes a new culture, fun, and recognition, and getting better. Yes you can get better, by some sort of team partnership to practice with each other, like how team liquid and ogs do it.
The way E-sports is going to work is that because there isnt enough salary and money involved in this young sport yet, that it is generally not worth making a trip to live elsewhere far away. What will happen is that there will be a Korea league and a foreigner scene. And once a year they will clash and fight for a big tournament prize. This makes sense. Win for everyone really. THEN eventually after a few years hopefully players will make big enough salaries and there will be more incentive to globalize and therefore have a true foreigner group of houses that play together with koreans and participate in the GSL.
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On May 18 2011 10:01 NHY wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 04:56 Xeris wrote:
So far, no Korean has ever had to qualify for a foreign event, but every single foreign has had to qualify for a Korean event. This is a big problem! Where to even begin...actually, I won't. Stop throwing random statements like they mean something.
Hey that's his company's problem that they didn't do a qualifier for koreans.
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EPT
