Some may find the release of this application controversial, since random people could potentially create chats between well-known players in an attempt to troll. However, everyone should be aware that editting the chat logs in replays is incredibly simple.
You should never trust that the player chat in a replay actually ever happened. Feel free to discuss how you feel about the release of such a tool.
On May 07 2011 09:19 Arkuray wrote: OP's arguments for releasing this is "security through transparency" which is a popular opinion among open source communities.
Anyone saying this program will do more harm then good needs to know that editing replay chat can be done in notepad, and that all this program does it making it easy and obvious that replay chat cannot be trusted.
Also, Back up important replays. I'd consider this a beta release, so until you've done enough work to be confident it's working well, better safe than sorry.
Potential Uses: * Erasing unnecessary chat before casting replay files (usually pause and lag chat) * Adding sponsored advertisements to the beginning of replays originating from you. * Filtering out opponent trolls before releasing a replay pack.
V1.1 * Fixed crash on long chat messages * Fixed crash when replay is open in Starcraft 2 * Fixed non-ASCII characters not writing correctly when using Save As...
V1.0 * Added support for Korean replays * Added ability to drag-drop multiple replays onto the application.
On May 07 2011 08:49 Leeto wrote: I think this is going to cause more harm than good..
I debated on whether to release it for that reason, and everyone I talked to said go for it. After all, other people can already do this, and others don't even realize how easy it actually is. It's better that people realize that replay files shouldn't be trusted, than those few trolls to quietly hold the power.
What is the exact purpose of this, other than being dishonest?
The reasons brought forth by OP, isn't really cutting it imo..
* Erasing unnecessary chat before casting replay files - This extremely niche´, I mean, who would actually want that? I can't recall any replays, but a very few, that could use censorship. * Adding sponsored advertisements to the beginning of replays originating from you - So players can now be unwilling sponsors of whatever a caster thinks/benefits from? (I assume that you can only put in text that is said by players in the actual game?) * Filtering out opponent trolls before releasing a replay pack - Well, if opponent trolls, why would you want to filter it out? If the person is indeed a troll, why not just release the replay with the chat included so everyone can see what a bastard the person is?
Do you really think that these three points outweighs all the shit that will come of this, if people start abusing it?
On May 07 2011 08:55 ELA wrote: What is the exact purpose of this, other than being dishonest?
The reasons brought forth by OP, isn't really cutting it imo..
* Erasing unnecessary chat before casting replay files - This extremely niche´, I mean, who would actually want that? I can't recall any replays, but a very few, that could use censorship. * Adding sponsored advertisements to the beginning of replays originating from you - So players can now be unwilling sponsors of whatever a caster thinks/benefits from? (I assume that you can only put in text that is said by players in the actual game?) * Filtering out opponent trolls before releasing a replay pack - Well, if opponent trolls, why would you want to filter it out? If the person is indeed a troll, why not just release the replay with the chat included so everyone can see what a bastard the person is?
Do you really think that these three points outweighs all the shit that will come of this, if people start abusing it?
Remember watching replays off SC2Replayed.com, and the players at the beginning would say "See this replay on SC2Replayed.org". I've seen that at the beginning of several casts, so this is already happening, the player's aren't actually saying it, but most people assumed they were. And give the right tools, you could remove it too.
For unnecessary chat, in a setting such as IPL where replays are being casted, why not remove chat that happened during pauses? You don't see the pause, so why show it in such a professional setting? It's hugely distracting in the timeline of the game itself. It's not censorship, it's removing distractions.
Watermarking replays: In the sense of SC2Replayed, a replay can label where it originated from, whether it's NASL, IPL, or other tournaments. I know tons of casters who would be perfectly fine attributing a replay to it's source, but in most cases, you receive a replay and have no idea where it's from.
On May 07 2011 08:55 ELA wrote: What is the exact purpose of this, other than being dishonest?
The reasons brought forth by OP, isn't really cutting it imo..
* Erasing unnecessary chat before casting replay files - This extremely niche´, I mean, who would actually want that? I can't recall any replays, but a very few, that could use censorship. * Adding sponsored advertisements to the beginning of replays originating from you - So players can now be unwilling sponsors of whatever a caster thinks/benefits from? (I assume that you can only put in text that is said by players in the actual game?) * Filtering out opponent trolls before releasing a replay pack - Well, if opponent trolls, why would you want to filter it out? If the person is indeed a troll, why not just release the replay with the chat included so everyone can see what a bastard the person is?
Do you really think that these three points outweighs all the shit that will come of this, if people start abusing it?
Who cares? With almost every program, people have the ability to misuse it. It's an awesome program that I could see being really helpful.
- It's amazing how people are so quick to jump to conclusion >.>.
Honestly, I always enjoy chatter from pros, whatever it may be. It's usually amusing. However, writing off stuff like "pp, ok, sec hotekys, ok, k gogo?, gogo" is good
OP's arguments for releasing this is "security through transparency" which is a popular opinion among open source communities.
Anyone saying this program will do more harm then good needs to know that editing replay chat can be done in notepad, and that all this program does it making it easy and obvious that replay chat cannot be trusted.
On May 07 2011 09:19 Arkuray wrote: OP's arguments for releasing this is "security through transparency" which is a popular opinion among open source communities.
Anyone saying this program will do more harm then good needs to know that editing replay chat can be done in notepad, and that all this program does it making it easy and obvious that replay chat cannot be trusted.
Of course it still does more harm than good. Only good it does is make people more aware, but now you really can never believe any chatlogs on public replays. Yes you could say you never could, and I agree that eventually this would've come out. Actually thinking about this more, I think it's great it was done so maybe blizz realizes to switch the chatlog system to not be so easily manipulated. So yeah, in one paragraph I'm changing my opinion into liking this, but I don't believe the program can cause anything good still
On May 07 2011 18:51 ThaSlayer wrote: Doesnt work on Windows 7. Stops working the moment I load a replay
There may be issues with replays involving spectator chat. Otherwise it should work just fine on Windows 7. There may be an extra dependency from MpqLib that i don't know about though...
I am one of the people that dislikes this idea. I am also one of the people that dislikes downloading music, games, movies for which i didnt pay. I am also one of the people that is against editing anything thats not my own intellectual property. (MPQ editing)
Its meant to change the truth/reality of a particular situation or is just flat out illegal. some things are funny, but these things end up being used more for the bad then the good, whether it is easy or not shouldnt matter in the decision to do it or not.
Thanks for this, I am a caster and often cast replays between friends where I could spare my viewers from some of the chit-chat.
I understand why everyone is so sure most uses of this tool will be undesirable ones, but there are some legitimate uses for it. Just like torrents and downloading stuff like linux I guess
Everyone says White-Ra is the most manner guy ever. Now I can make comedy, where by using special taktics I can make White-Ra BM and Idra be his manner coach, all in one game while watching zerg slay protoss, with BM at all the best moments.
On May 07 2011 19:05 Artimo wrote: I am one of the people that dislikes this idea. I am also one of the people that dislikes downloading music, games, movies for which i didnt pay. I am also one of the people that is against editing anything thats not my own intellectual property. (MPQ editing)
Its meant to change the truth/reality of a particular situation or is just flat out illegal. some things are funny, but these things end up being used more for the bad then the good, whether it is easy or not shouldnt matter in the decision to do it or not.
In their 2003/2004 RTS game, there's a ton of MPQ editing tools for map making... or you lost the map and you'd need to edit a few things for the new patch... you can just extract the text file and edit the entire script from there...
downloading music/removing unnecessary data they add on? ( random DRM things even though you own it...? ( or you demux a DVD and remove 30minutes of advertisements / force it to not downsample audio????
The temptation to script entire eBooks into replays is awful. Team Liquid & Friends star in The Importance of Being Earnest, a play in one unabridged act.
I don't really mind this all too much. It could make replays seem far more professional without banter and possibly allowing teams to plant advertisements in them, making sponsors more inclined to help out. If every EG replay you downloaded said something about Steelseries blah blah, it could draw new companies to Esports.
I doubt a tool like this can really be used for trolling, as I only download replays from reputable sites, and have doubts people would be editing in the text in those replays to purposely make high level players seem bad in some light.
On May 07 2011 19:40 dezi wrote: So i could change a rep to make it look like my opponent flamed me like shit to get him banned in a league/tourney? :/
Yes. And in the same way you can flame your opponent in a tourney (if no 3rd person is present) and edit out your flames and say he edited them in. (He may take screenshots during the game though).
Despite being a caster I don't think this is a really good idea. Maybe adding in spectator chat form a caster would be appropriate but I don't think it is fair on players to create or remove what they say. What little chat exists helps us to get to know players who don't stream and false messages are just confusing. Ultimately, the only real issue will be users abusing the software.
Interesting idea though, we'll see whether or not it is over-abused. Maybe it'll all turn out roses
On May 07 2011 19:05 Artimo wrote: I am one of the people that dislikes this idea. I am also one of the people that dislikes downloading music, games, movies for which i didnt pay. I am also one of the people that is against editing anything thats not my own intellectual property. (MPQ editing)
Its meant to change the truth/reality of a particular situation or is just flat out illegal. some things are funny, but these things end up being used more for the bad then the good, whether it is easy or not shouldnt matter in the decision to do it or not.
In their 2003/2004 RTS game, there's a ton of MPQ editing tools for map making... or you lost the map and you'd need to edit a few things for the new patch... you can just extract the text file and edit the entire script from there...
downloading music/removing unnecessary data they add on? ( random DRM things even though you own it...? ( or you demux a DVD and remove 30minutes of advertisements / force it to not downsample audio????
Please dont get me wrong i am not condemning anyone who does it. and the 2 examples you give i can go along with since you owned the original and edit out commercials. which is not altering the movie itself.
but downloading movies for free, downloading music for free, downloading games for free, i am absolutely against. it is my opinion that if you like something someone has made that you pay for the service or product they have provided, so that they may in the future create more that you will also like. But i have a feeling we are now off on a separate topic not intended by the OP
On May 07 2011 19:40 dezi wrote: So i could change a rep to make it look like my opponent flamed me like shit to get him banned in a league/tourney? :/
As was said before, you could just open the replay in notepad and change the text too. It's easier than you think.
Really cool idea, however it will most likely just be used for abuse.
Are you able to change the name of the players? If so, isn't this a great tool for preventing spoilers in tournaments from people who stalk match histories of pros?
This is such a worthless tool and it will actually cause harm to the community. From everyone putting stupid advertisements into any replays they can get their hands on, to censorship and stupid idiots faking chat from pros.
You're destroying the legitimacy of SC2 replays.
Oh yeah and people can now flame / say racist shit / lie / spam their opponents in tournaments and there's no way to prove it for the victim since the offender can just release a replay with all of it edited out.
I hope that blizzard makes it near impossible to edit replay chat. I won't fault the guy who made this program because it it easy enough to edit the chat without it, but I will fault blizzard for allowing it to be so easy to do.
On May 07 2011 08:49 Leeto wrote: I think this is going to cause more harm than good..
I debated on whether to release it for that reason, and everyone I talked to said go for it. After all, other people can already do this, and others don't even realize how easy it actually is. It's better that people realize that replay files shouldn't be trusted, than those few trolls to quietly hold the power.
I debated on whether to release my new 9mm for that reason, and everyone I talked to said go for it. After all, other people can already do this, and others don't even realize how easy it actually is to kill someone. It's better that people realize that people shouldn't be trusted, than those few gun-owners to quietly hold the power.
See how your logic fails? If you truly were concerned about the secret guild of replay-fakes having such a large impact you should gather some proof for such activities or release faked replays and later reveal that they were faked and anyone can do it.
I know you put a lot of work into this, but you really should take it down, the two major impacts of this tool will be:
advertisements everywhere && people faking replay chat
the OP is right, this is already done and he simply gives everyone the ability to do so, that deserves thanks and praise, apart from that, dont trust any random replay apart from tournament casts and replaypacks from the player himself <.< (i he doesnt troll it himself)
In legit tournaments there are generally refs/spectators as witnesses to games for a variety of reasons. Highly doubt that players will be abusing this when there is a third party there...
All of this nonsense-- oh god, the legitimacy of everything is now in question--treats the issue like this program will introduce those questions. People have found all kinds of things to abuse, certainly way before this. Those with the intent and desire to cause trouble have found ways without a handy program like this. As others have said... notepad editing is pretty damn easy. This is a legit editor meant to be useful and helpful. Like most things meant to be useful and helpful, there is a potential for abuse by some troublemakers. That is not to say we should abandon it.
This is a really good development. People can already edit chat currently but since there hasn't been a major "incident" yet people still think chatlogs from replays are reliable, hopefully this will forever avert the possibility of an incident happening by destroying the sanctity of replays.
blizzard should actually cut chat out of replays completely - you can't protect replays from being changed and the purpose of replays is to see the game, not the chat (at least it should be)
On May 08 2011 05:21 VTPerfect wrote: This is a really good development. People can already edit chat currently but since there hasn't been a major "incident" yet people still think chatlogs from replays are reliable, hopefully this will forever avert the possibility of an incident happening by destroying the sanctity of replays.
On May 07 2011 18:51 ThaSlayer wrote: Doesnt work on Windows 7. Stops working the moment I load a replay
There may be issues with replays involving spectator chat. Otherwise it should work just fine on Windows 7. There may be an extra dependency from MpqLib that i don't know about though...
I'm actually having the same problem. Crashes when loading the replay using Windows 7. I tried running as admin and reinstalling the .Net framework but neither fixed it.
EDIT: Odd. It worked on my other computer just fine (also running Windows 7)
On May 07 2011 08:49 Leeto wrote: I think this is going to cause more harm than good..
I debated on whether to release it for that reason, and everyone I talked to said go for it. After all, other people can already do this, and others don't even realize how easy it actually is. It's better that people realize that replay files shouldn't be trusted, than those few trolls to quietly hold the power.
I debated on whether to release my new 9mm for that reason, and everyone I talked to said go for it. After all, other people can already do this, and others don't even realize how easy it actually is to kill someone. It's better that people realize that people shouldn't be trusted, than those few gun-owners to quietly hold the power.
See how your logic fails? If you truly were concerned about the secret guild of replay-fakes having such a large impact you should gather some proof for such activities or release faked replays and later reveal that they were faked and anyone can do it.
I know you put a lot of work into this, but you really should take it down, the two major impacts of this tool will be:
advertisements everywhere && people faking replay chat
Your analogy might make sense if new guns weren't actually released to the public market every day.
Released an update, I know a few casters were having issues with Korean replays, and I found the issues.
V1.0 * Added support for Korean replays (both Korean names and Korean chat fixed) * Added ability to drag-drop multiple replays onto the application.
You can download from the links at the front of the post. I've also uploaded the release to the download list on Github.
Other than the Korean replay issues, I've had pretty positive feedback, so I've decided to up this to a 1.0 release. Let me know if you have any issues.
It really boggles my mind how negative most of TL can be to anything. Nowadays the TL norm seems to be (seen it myself dozens of times):
1. Thread is posted about some new tool, information or idea with legitimate reasoning behind it 2. One of the first repliers is a one-liner with something that supposedly (without valid reasoning) refutes the entire purpose of the thread 3. A dozen haters join the bandwagon (having read the op and maybe the first three replies, one of which they copy) and clutter the thread with the same nonsense
Like here. Let's see.
- Advertisers can already do this if they like (since they don't need tools that make it effortless to do this) - Replay chat editing was widespread and completely normal in WC3, where replays were a LOT bigger than in SC2 (as there were no streams like they exist today) - Even if advertising was a real issue (and I don't see how it would be, really), you could remove those ads, with, you know, this tool
And who could even possibly imagine that "fake replay chat" would be a problem? Everyone already knows replay chat can be altered. Does someone really think that a scandal would arise when someone makes a thread called "OMG IDRA CALLS MC'S MOM A CARPET CLEANER, SEE THIS REPLAY"? I suppose the same people would drool over "incriminating IRC chat logs" since that's pretty much the same thing. All this negging is sad because all it does is deter possible forum contributors or content creators from posting valid threads since most of the replies are often hater bs. At least it has that effect on me.
For the OP, good job. This is exactly the way to go in developing and releasing tools for the community.
Don't see why people complain, chat is already extremely easy to edit, obviously this makes it abit easier, but if someone wants to troll, they're gonna troll.
IMO you should add a feature to edit player names, I know this can be done and there's a lot of tournaments out there that use the built in game overlay but are casting replays, and if Koreans are playing on NA using weird smurfs or playing on Korea using hangul, the edited names look better.
This editor only really works for removing chat from a replay, if you try to actually just edit it or add/remove messages, it blows up.
Here's a list of errors - I think it's having a lot of trouble with the timestamps...
If I clear the chat logs and then add three new messages at 4, 5, and 6 seconds, then save the file, then reopen it, now those messages have the timestamps at seconds 1, 2, and 3. Obviously, this is broken.
Furthermore, when you have multiple messages that have the same timestamps (which isn't hard since it only specifies to the second instead of the millisecond or anything more precise, and messages that occur during the lag/drop screen are all recorded as happening at the same time), the chat editor will randomly move them around and change the order. For example, if I have 10 messages that people sent while someone in the game was lagging out, the editor may show them in some given order, now if I try adding or deleting a message anywhere in the replay, the order of those messages will be moved all over the place and basically randomized.
Also, if you have multiple messages with the same timestamps and you try to remove one of them, it may delete the wrong message. For example, if I have 2 messages at 00:00:05 and I try to delete the first one, it may just delete the second one instead.
The last thing I want to note is that when I try to save a replay file out of the chat editor, it usually (about 9 times out of 10) will freeze and stop responding and I have to force-quit the program.
I'm not sure why all these errors are happening and why no one else seems to be commenting on them, but I hope these get fixed in the near future. Thanks for the potentially great tool!
On August 15 2011 23:53 dasmowenator wrote: This editor only really works for removing chat from a replay, if you try to actually just edit it or add/remove messages, it blows up.
Here's a list of errors - I think it's having a lot of trouble with the timestamps...
If I clear the chat logs and then add three new messages at 4, 5, and 6 seconds, then save the file, then reopen it, now those messages have the timestamps at seconds 1, 2, and 3. Obviously, this is broken.
Furthermore, when you have multiple messages that have the same timestamps (which isn't hard since it only specifies to the second instead of the millisecond or anything more precise, and messages that occur during the lag/drop screen are all recorded as happening at the same time), the chat editor will randomly move them around and change the order. For example, if I have 10 messages that people sent while someone in the game was lagging out, the editor may show them in some given order, now if I try adding or deleting a message anywhere in the replay, the order of those messages will be moved all over the place and basically randomized.
Also, if you have multiple messages with the same timestamps and you try to remove one of them, it may delete the wrong message. For example, if I have 2 messages at 00:00:05 and I try to delete the first one, it may just delete the second one instead.
The last thing I want to note is that when I try to save a replay file out of the chat editor, it usually (about 9 times out of 10) will freeze and stop responding and I have to force-quit the program.
I'm not sure why all these errors are happening and why no one else seems to be commenting on them, but I hope these get fixed in the near future. Thanks for the potentially great tool!
It probably has to do with the latest patch, I haven't tested it thoroughly. I'll take a look at everything you've said when I get a chance and see what I can do. Thanks!
This tool is epic as well as the other tools you guys are releasing, please keep up the good work.
I''ve been seeing this since WC3 days, never caused a problem, never was used to '"harm'" anyone not progamers, not espectators and it is usefull to give information to the viewer that in other case, he wont have.
This tool is epic as well as the other tools you guys are releasing, please keep up the good work.
Just 1 guy, but thanks!
Anytime I try to load a replay the program just crashes. Any suggestions?
I'll try to make a point of looking over both sc2replay and this chat application over the next couple days to make sure it works for the latest patch. It's very likely it could be broken, but since I haven't seen anyone else try to submit any patches to fix it, I'll try to make time
Yes. And in the same way you can flame your opponent in a tourney (if no 3rd person is present) and edit out your flames and say he edited them in. (He may take screenshots during the game though).
Not really, you're not the only one with a replay kept. Blizzard saves every replay file and they use their own replay of the match (not the one you send them) for this purpose. So will tournaments.
You can't get anyone banned anywhere using this (except for yourself), the worst you can do is make a couple of idiots believe some progamer said something
First of all, thanks for this application. I believe it can be very useful, especially to review / comment a game directly in the replay file (instead of having to make a YouTube video).
However, I get very frequent crashes of the program. I am under Windows 7, and try to edit a replay file from the latest patch. It seems that the issues occur mostly when I add "many" characters (like 20 or so). If I go really slow, it seems more or less ok.
Is this something you could have a look with? Do you need more information from me to help you with it? (I could give you the replay file and the scenario I do to reproduce the issue).
Thanks again for this app
Edit: Playing a bit more with it, and the crashes don't seem related to the length of the text I add after all (it was just a coincidence). I'll continue using it a bit more, and will let you know if I can get a grab on where the issue is.
Edit2: thought it might be linked to overriding an existing file, but even when using save as and enter a completely new file, it crashes. -- Daedin
I play game sometimes and would like to use the replays on my blog or other places, but the person I'm playing against would prefer to remain anonymous...can this edit names in the replay? Or does anyone know a tool that can?
On October 04 2011 23:23 Reithan wrote: I play game sometimes and would like to use the replays on my blog or other places, but the person I'm playing against would prefer to remain anonymous...can this edit names in the replay? Or does anyone know a tool that can?
Not any way to do it with this tool, or even with my Replay SDK at that, but it would be an interesting thing to consider. I'll keep it in my mind.
First of all, thanks for this application. I believe it can be very useful, especially to review / comment a game directly in the replay file (instead of having to make a YouTube video).
However, I get very frequent crashes of the program. I am under Windows 7, and try to edit a replay file from the latest patch. It seems that the issues occur mostly when I add "many" characters (like 20 or so). If I go really slow, it seems more or less ok.
Is this something you could have a look with? Do you need more information from me to help you with it? (I could give you the replay file and the scenario I do to reproduce the issue).
Thanks again for this app
Edit: Playing a bit more with it, and the crashes don't seem related to the length of the text I add after all (it was just a coincidence). I'll continue using it a bit more, and will let you know if I can get a grab on where the issue is.
Edit2: thought it might be linked to overriding an existing file, but even when using save as and enter a completely new file, it crashes. -- Daedin
I'll have to add a way to generate some more information for crash reports. I haven't had a chance to test with the latest patch though, so it very likely could be broken at the moment.
When I have some spare time, I'll be sure to test out some of the replays from the latest patch and issue fixes if I need to.
On October 04 2011 21:05 Daedin wrote:However, I get very frequent crashes of the program. I am under Windows 7, and try to edit a replay file from the latest patch. It seems that the issues occur mostly when I add "many" characters (like 20 or so). If I go really slow, it seems more or less ok.
Is this something you could have a look with? Do you need more information from me to help you with it? (I could give you the replay file and the scenario I do to reproduce the issue).
I'll work on getting some bug reporting implemented in a lot of these applications. However, I haven't been able to reproduce a crash even with the latest replays... Make sure you're using the newest version of the application.
Also, e-mail me at ascend@ascendtv.com with any replays you're having trouble with, and I can likely give you special versions to figure out once and for all what is actually causing your crashes.
Just a quick note that I've released a v1.1 of this application. You can grab the latest version over at http://ascendtv.com/chateditor/
Changes in V1.1 * Fixed crash on long chat messages * Fixed crash when replay is open in Starcraft 2 * Fixed non-ASCII characters not writing correctly when using Save As...
This will help people that had trouble with writing Korean and German in replays. I've tested this with the latest version, seemed to work fine. If you have any further trouble, I recommend running a repair/reinstall for .NET 4.0 Client Profile.
When trying to use this, I get an error very similar to Zepiii's above. Does this have something to do with Blizzard changing the file format and the program not being up to date or is there a known workaround for this?
My first thought when seeing this: Handy for replay packs for online tournaments, especially when either player is on a barcode or borrowed account. Just add something like "Starcraftcup season 11, Ro16, JimmyBob (red terran) vs. BobJimmy (blue terran) game 1 of 3" to the start of the replay.
EPT![[image loading]](http://ascendtv.com/chateditor/tlheaderidra.png)
epic
