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On January 17 2013 00:59 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 00:55 theDirtyDuB wrote:
this shit is just ignorant. i don't know who alex is, never heard of him, but if he is in charge of TL, now is see why the team goes nowhere. A Team owner who relies on web journalism to survive provides no team at all. Hes relying on journalism to keep a team alive? Idra was right. In real sports team DON"T rely on breaking the news of A-Rods signing. You know why? Because they're a team and teams have nothing to do with journalism. You can't survive that way. Making money for a team has nothing to do with journalism. IN FACT Journalism is a whole different field all together. So don't question the intentions of a man who do does his job, and does it well. If you broke, as a team owner maybe you should, idk, get the basics of the business down. In sports players need to fill the seats. Thats how they make money to cover expensive. YOUR players fill the seats right? You guys can fill venues. So wheres your money? Your players fill venues, bring mass publicity to these tournament but get no money. Why? You're not even getting paid the most basic aspects of any business. Probably also the reason TL relies so heavily on journalism done by not a real journalist (according to state of the game).
SLASHER DID NOT LEAK ANYTHING. HE'S A JOURNALIST. JOURNALISTS DON'T LEAK, THEY REPORT. SO WHO TOLD THE REPORTER....ALEX? and yes i would appreciate you answering this. Hopefully YOU didn't leak the info to a reporter and then publicly slander and make continuous attempts to and threaten to conspire to ruin his career.
First off Slasher doesn't work for TL, so how do you even tell him where, when, and how to do his job? I thought TL was a team, but they're arguing about a journalist doing his job? Is it another journalist? NO. Someone with no credibility in the field crying because they has some "news" that they wanted to put out first.
Hey Alex, in the next tournament don't play one of you best players because STX is trying to promote one of their newer players, and they need him to get wins. So i don't want your players to do their job, because this team over here, right, they trying to build up hype and promote this guy. Alright? You understand right alex? This is your logic. You'd prob say, first off TL players to play for STX. and that would be the end.
Now he's irresponsibly using the power the forum as attained and the state of the game stage to publicly embarrass themselves. Stop threatening a journalist for reporting. No journalist wants to do interviews you idiot. In SC2 that's a 1 base all in. Breaking news is what you wanna get. TV shows stop for breaking news. You EARN that. Then move to live broadcasts.
Here's the real perspective that people should understand. One that prob Slasher fails to see because everyone's lost in between friend and business. Essentially, Alex is asking Slasher, a journalist, not to do his job, because alex wants to be the first one to put the news out. Alex is trying to take food off the plate of a journalist and this guy isn't even a journalist.
TL failed to protect its sensitive information. Information got leaked. Someone needs to be sued. That someone is tied to or employed by TL. AMD is going thru the same thing from leaked sensitive data and are suing some former employees. Leaks are always internal. Journalist dont leak, they report, which in this case happened to be a leak. So go get em Alex. Oh and here's a tip, next time you have a secret...DON"T TELL A JOURNALIST. Kinda like how criminals wont go tell the cops where they gonna rob before they do it, or maybe its more like trying to boil water with ice. mmk?
If you don't know what happened ill sum it up. Alex tried to be a journalist, and lost to a REAL journalist. Alex is crying because he couldn't be the one to be like "FIRST!"
Anyways, up until today, I've never known who alex is, but now that i do, i've lost a lot of respect for TL as an organization and have come to realize, its no organization at all. Its just some child in the background trying to keep a team afloat for his journalism front because once the teams gone, he won't have nothing to write about. If he wasn't on TL, real journalists would rate his work as shit water. And I don't have to read any of your work...your not a journalist, arguing with a journalist about journalism. Go manage your team idiot and stop writing stories or get a job blogging.
You don't know who Alex is AND you don't know who the team owner of TL is..
He was trolling ffs.
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On January 17 2013 01:01 furo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 00:58 OopsOopsBaby wrote:
eg should have dealt with slasher privately if they have a problem with him, not on a podcast. really there is no way to decide who is right or wrong but it seems like this discussion is aimed at to incite the community to take sides and create drama. +1 imo its understandable why EG/other teams are mad at him and if it goes so far that they will boycott him its in slaher's interest to cooperate in this point. its not like they demand unreasonable things from him.
It's understandable yes but it's in the end their own fault.
I doubt Slasher will change after this judging by all the support he has been given in this conflict from the community.
It is actually unreasonable to have a journalist in a iron chain as your personal publicist.
And if anyone actually did this even I would go and buy a pitchfork as well as email their sponsors.
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EG's media training really shines through here.
Were it not for the fact that these guys could sell the Pope a twin bed, we wouldn't even think about the fact that Slasher's doing his job as a consciencious journalist might interfere with a companie's means of making moolah.
That's like saying there shouldn't be reports about the circumstances at FOXCONN because it might hurt Apple's profit margins.
I'm rather annoyed by myself, since I found myself rather impressed by the EG owner once or twice, albeit being on the polar opposite of opinions.
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Having the 3 EG players on as some form of passive aggressive intimidation was a weak move, EG have come out of this looking horrible.
Slasher ftw, only doing his job.
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On January 17 2013 01:05 Jarree wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 00:59 Penev wrote:On January 17 2013 00:55 theDirtyDuB wrote:
this shit is just ignorant. i don't know who alex is, never heard of him, but if he is in charge of TL, now is see why the team goes nowhere. A Team owner who relies on web journalism to survive provides no team at all. Hes relying on journalism to keep a team alive? Idra was right. In real sports team DON"T rely on breaking the news of A-Rods signing. You know why? Because they're a team and teams have nothing to do with journalism. You can't survive that way. Making money for a team has nothing to do with journalism. IN FACT Journalism is a whole different field all together. So don't question the intentions of a man who do does his job, and does it well. If you broke, as a team owner maybe you should, idk, get the basics of the business down. In sports players need to fill the seats. Thats how they make money to cover expensive. YOUR players fill the seats right? You guys can fill venues. So wheres your money? Your players fill venues, bring mass publicity to these tournament but get no money. Why? You're not even getting paid the most basic aspects of any business. Probably also the reason TL relies so heavily on journalism done by not a real journalist (according to state of the game).
SLASHER DID NOT LEAK ANYTHING. HE'S A JOURNALIST. JOURNALISTS DON'T LEAK, THEY REPORT. SO WHO TOLD THE REPORTER....ALEX? and yes i would appreciate you answering this. Hopefully YOU didn't leak the info to a reporter and then publicly slander and make continuous attempts to and threaten to conspire to ruin his career.
First off Slasher doesn't work for TL, so how do you even tell him where, when, and how to do his job? I thought TL was a team, but they're arguing about a journalist doing his job? Is it another journalist? NO. Someone with no credibility in the field crying because they has some "news" that they wanted to put out first.
Hey Alex, in the next tournament don't play one of you best players because STX is trying to promote one of their newer players, and they need him to get wins. So i don't want your players to do their job, because this team over here, right, they trying to build up hype and promote this guy. Alright? You understand right alex? This is your logic. You'd prob say, first off TL players to play for STX. and that would be the end.
Now he's irresponsibly using the power the forum as attained and the state of the game stage to publicly embarrass themselves. Stop threatening a journalist for reporting. No journalist wants to do interviews you idiot. In SC2 that's a 1 base all in. Breaking news is what you wanna get. TV shows stop for breaking news. You EARN that. Then move to live broadcasts.
Here's the real perspective that people should understand. One that prob Slasher fails to see because everyone's lost in between friend and business. Essentially, Alex is asking Slasher, a journalist, not to do his job, because alex wants to be the first one to put the news out. Alex is trying to take food off the plate of a journalist and this guy isn't even a journalist.
TL failed to protect its sensitive information. Information got leaked. Someone needs to be sued. That someone is tied to or employed by TL. AMD is going thru the same thing from leaked sensitive data and are suing some former employees. Leaks are always internal. Journalist dont leak, they report, which in this case happened to be a leak. So go get em Alex. Oh and here's a tip, next time you have a secret...DON"T TELL A JOURNALIST. Kinda like how criminals wont go tell the cops where they gonna rob before they do it, or maybe its more like trying to boil water with ice. mmk?
If you don't know what happened ill sum it up. Alex tried to be a journalist, and lost to a REAL journalist. Alex is crying because he couldn't be the one to be like "FIRST!"
Anyways, up until today, I've never known who alex is, but now that i do, i've lost a lot of respect for TL as an organization and have come to realize, its no organization at all. Its just some child in the background trying to keep a team afloat for his journalism front because once the teams gone, he won't have nothing to write about. If he wasn't on TL, real journalists would rate his work as shit water. And I don't have to read any of your work...your not a journalist, arguing with a journalist about journalism. Go manage your team idiot and stop writing stories or get a job blogging.
You don't know who Alex is AND you don't know who the team owner of TL is.. He was trolling ffs.
You're probably right but he put so much effort into it..
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EG lost a lot of my respect. I always thought of them as a professional team and even though I understand that they are disappointed in losing sponsorship money Slasher did nothing wrong.
Sure, you can discuss whether if he should have prepared a bigger article for the actual release rather than putting it out on the web at once but at the end it was Slasher decision and no one should be able to tell a journalist what he does with his informaion. EG should, instead, blame the guy who leaked to Slasher...
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On January 17 2013 00:55 theDirtyDuB wrote:
this shit is just ignorant. i don't know who alex is, never heard of him, but if he is in charge of TL, now is see why the team goes nowhere.
I lol'ed, you might want to edit 'EG' instead of 'TL' and people would take your post a bit more seriously.
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On January 16 2013 23:36 loladin wrote:
"You don't help the teams with eyeballs, you don't help the spectators with the view experiences, and beyond that you actually hurt.. you actively hurt the relationships and the give and take that make our industry even possible. Like, where do you think the money comes from? What do you think the sponsors pay for? They pay for marketing, they pay for exposure. And when you go and leak announcements not only do you provide no value for anyone except yourself, you steal value from the companies that support our company. [..] You make the team look bad because then we look like we're not able to manage our press relationships and manage our value propositions to our sponsors. The companies know you and they hate you." - Alex Garfield.
In my opinion this just shows how deluded Alex Garfield is. Why is he going after Slasher, who is an eSports reporter? This tirade should be aimed at whomever in the EG organization that leaked the information in the first place. How can anyone even have this point of view?
Since when is it anyones job but someone on the EG payroll to make EG look good? This is beyond silly.
Delusion assumes he's off the mark or uninformed. You're really, really missing the point here.
Firstly, you're assuming that all information comes from one source...that when leaks happen they must be coming from the one team they're about (in this situation, that is). That just isn't true because of how e-sports [and nearly every industry which conducts any business transaction] works. For every player negotiation or team acquisition or sponsor arrangement, multiple people [and teams, in this case] are either bidding or in the conversation.
Secondly, if you feel we are "blaming Slasher for doing his job," then you're missing the point again. This conversation is about e-sports fragility and the value that we at EG have created through these "announcements." It deals with the balance between sharing information when you have it versus creating quality in having that information. And it's also about the balance of a relationship and the expectations of such.
If you feel this is EG seeking Slasher as a PR extension then you're very deluded by your own oversimplification of the issue. We have proven we don't need "e-sports reporting" to make headlines or news about us (both for good and bad reasons, of course). We create that naturally and unarguably better than anyone else in e-sports. What EG is seeking is a situation that allows Slasher to be Slasher and EG to be EG.
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On January 17 2013 00:58 OopsOopsBaby wrote:
eg should have dealt with slasher privately if they have a problem with him, not on a podcast. really there is no way to decide who is right or wrong but it seems like this discussion is aimed at to incite the community to take sides and create drama.
+1
spot on.
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On January 17 2013 01:06 kafkaesque wrote:
EG's media training really shines through here.
Were it not for the fact that these guys could sell the Pope a twin bed, we wouldn't even think about the fact that Slasher's doing his job as a consciencious journalist might interfere with a companie's means of making moolah.
That's like saying there shouldn't be reports about the circumstances at FOXCONN because it might hurt Apple's profit margins.
I'm rather annoyed by myself, since I found myself rather impressed by the EG owner once or twice, albeit being on the polar opposite of opinions.
we have 0 media training
but 99% of the people in esports comes off as inarticulate imbeciles so we sound smart. if we were so good at manipulating public opinion there wouldnt be a shitfest on here and reddit every time we voice an opinin.
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Turns out you don't know who Alex is. If you can't tell the difference between a multi billion dollar organization (sports) over a million dollar one (esports) you shouldn't chime in so aggressively.
The leak on A-Rod that you want to use as an example is silly. It doesn't matter if it gets leaked early. Why because its going to be on the cover of ESPN, every big city newspaper. Its a 150+ million dollar contract. The Yankees have no need to try and promote it, no sponsors to say thanks for making it happen.
Slasher leaks a big signing like JD, in the form of a tweet and a poorly written article. Which kills the work the teams do to hype up the player and plug their sponsors. Read the majority of the posts of when they did come out with their official announcement. Oh I already knew about this etc etc. EG isn't sitting comfortable where they can pay out a big contract and not get the most out of their investment. They don't have a billionaire owner, they have a list of sponsors they have to keep happy to keep living.
This community isn't as big as people want to think. Slasher is far from a journalist. A friend of people involved in the scene that he can overhear things and tweet about it. He has never named a source. He deals with small players of the scene and runs with it. If he was willing to work with owners, and put together better write ups he would be an asset. Now it just has the feel of, oh its all about Slasher. Going to leak the news first! He wouldn't even be capable of getting a job at TMZ.
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On January 17 2013 01:15 Irave wrote:
Turns out you don't know who Alex is. If you can't tell the difference between a multi billion dollar organization (sports) over a million dollar one (esports) you shouldn't chime in so aggressively.
The leak on A-Rod that you want to use as an example is silly. It doesn't matter if it gets leaked early. Why because its going to be on the cover of ESPN, every big city newspaper. Its a 150+ million dollar contract. The Yankees have no need to try and promote it, no sponsors to say thanks for making it happen.
Slasher leaks a big signing like JD, in the form of a tweet and a poorly written article. Which kills the work the teams do to hype up the player and plug their sponsors. Read the majority of the posts of when they did come out with their official announcement. Oh I already knew about this etc etc. EG isn't sitting comfortable where they can pay out a big contract and not get the most out of their investment. They don't have a billionaire owner, they have a list of sponsors they have to keep happy to keep living.
This community isn't as big as people want to think. Slasher is far from a journalist. A friend of people involved in the scene that he can overhear things and tweet about it. He has never named a source. He deals with small players of the scene and runs with it. If he was willing to work with owners, and put together better write ups he would be an asset. Now it just has the feel of, oh its all about Slasher. Going to leak the news first! He wouldn't even be capable of getting a job at TMZ.
Slasher is a journalist whether you like it or not. Your post was mildly reasonable up until the last paragraph where you started spouting about Slasher's inadequacies, much like Alex did. I don't think anyone is attacking Alex for being upset; they're attacking him for his unreasonable expectations and for the way he voiced his opinions.
I like Alex, but that was a very poor display, IMO.
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On January 16 2013 15:49 fuzzylogic44 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 15:35 Canucklehead wrote:On January 16 2013 15:25 TotalBiscuit wrote:On January 16 2013 15:21 Serpico wrote:
Because we just want to know what it's about. No you really don't, you want to be swept away in the excitement of it all and you don't get that from a twitter post. If you didn't like excitement you wouldn't be watching eSports to begin with. That's not true. I found out about the NHL lockout ending on twitter around 3am and was plenty excited and was still excited when they did a live press conference around 4am. Here is the difference b/w sports and esports announcements. I don't think any official team announcements bring any added excitement than reading about it on twitter from slasher. It is different in sports because after big signings/trades, the team will do a live press conference and a ton of media will be there to cover it. The player will always be interviewed live either in person or over the phone for his reaction. In esports, a press release is posted on the team's website, a written player interivew and maybe a video. That does not add any added excitement than the initial news of what team the player signed with because there's not much added value to see. At least for me it doesn't. Because Twitter and a press conference from some suits are equally exciting. That comparison is invalid. Try this one. @Slasher Sources tell me Flash will leave KT Rolster and join Team Liquid. OR An epic video suddenly posted on the front page of TL with some epic music slowly building to a sick graphic of Flash and a TL logo.
I don't understand.
If I saw a twitter message that Flash was joining TL. You know what the first thing I would do is? It's not go to gamespot and read what slasher wrote, it would be to type teamliquid.net into my browser. I've done this with every other player announcement for teams I care about.
Maybe Slasher takes some wind out of the sails of the surprise but I don't think he harms the bottomline which is pageviews etc. Anecdote time, I don't know 1 person in this scene that would read a tweet Slasher puts out about a new signing and goes and reads about it on gamespot. If EG have a new player I go to TL and EG website if TL get a new player, I go to TL. Really, TL is the most twisted when it comes to company/media exposure, anything happens in SC2, go to TL!
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On January 17 2013 01:13 IdrA wrote:
we have 0 media training
but 99% of the people in esports comes off as inarticulate imbeciles so we sound smart. if we were so good at manipulating public opinion there wouldnt be a shitfest on here and reddit every time we voice an opinin.
'We' should have a capital letter. Beginning of sentence.
There should be a full stop after 'training'.
The word 'but' should start with a capital letter as it begins a sentence.
'Comes' should be 'come'.
'If' should also begin with a capital letter as it begins a sentence.
'Wouldnt' should have an apostrophe between the 'n' and the 't' as it is missing the letter 'o'.
It's spelt 'opinion not' 'opinin'.
'Reddit' should begin with a capital letter as it is a proper noun.
Normally I wouldn't be so petty as to go down the whole 'correct grammar and spelling route' but really if you're going to say 'man we are sound so much smarter than your average fellow' at least make the effort to type it correctly. Instead you make eight mistakes in three sentences.
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On January 17 2013 01:22 DameHixxi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 01:13 IdrA wrote:
we have 0 media training
but 99% of the people in esports comes off as inarticulate imbeciles so we sound smart. if we were so good at manipulating public opinion there wouldnt be a shitfest on here and reddit every time we voice an opinin. 'We' should have a capital letter. Beginning of sentence. There should be a full stop after 'training'. The word 'but' should start with a capital letter as it begins a sentence. 'Comes' should be 'come'. 'If' should also begin with a capital letter as it begins a sentence. 'Wouldnt' should have an apostrophe between the 'n' and the 't' as it is missing the letter 'o'. It's spelt 'opinion not' 'opinin'. 'Reddit' should begin with a capital letter as it is a proper noun. Normally I wouldn't be so petty as to go down the whole 'correct grammar and spelling route' but really if you're going to say 'man we are so much smarter than your average fellow' at least make the effort to type it correctly. Instead you make eight mistakes in three sentences.
Dumbest, most worthless post I've read thus far. Logout.
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more eSports Drama!
love it
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You are very much entitled to your opinion of my post. But if Idra wants to sit around and tell everyone that he and Team EG sound so much smarter than most other people in eSports in comparison, he could you know... make the effort to ... sound smarter than most other people in eSports.
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On January 17 2013 01:22 DameHixxi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 01:13 IdrA wrote:
we have 0 media training
but 99% of the people in esports comes off as inarticulate imbeciles so we sound smart. if we were so good at manipulating public opinion there wouldnt be a shitfest on here and reddit every time we voice an opinin. 'We' should have a capital letter. Beginning of sentence. There should be a full stop after 'training'. The word 'but' should start with a capital letter as it begins a sentence. 'Comes' should be 'come'. 'If' should also begin with a capital letter as it begins a sentence. 'Wouldnt' should have an apostrophe between the 'n' and the 't' as it is missing the letter 'o'. It's spelt 'opinion not' 'opinin'. 'Reddit' should begin with a capital letter as it is a proper noun. Normally I wouldn't be so petty as to go down the whole 'correct grammar and spelling route' but really if you're going to say 'man we are sound so much smarter than your average fellow' at least make the effort to type it correctly. Instead you make eight mistakes in three sentences.
idiot
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On January 17 2013 01:13 EG.lectR wrote:
Secondly, if you feel we are "blaming Slasher for doing his job," then you're missing the point again. This conversation is about e-sports fragility and the value that we at EG have created through these "announcements." It deals with the balance between sharing information when you have it versus creating quality in having that information. And it's also about the balance of a relationship and the expectations of such.
Frankly if esports can't withstand journalists practicing journalism then it doesn't deserve to exist.
On January 17 2013 01:13 EG.lectR wrote:
If you feel this is EG seeking Slasher as a PR extension then you're very deluded by your own oversimplification of the issue. We have proven we don't need "e-sports reporting" to make headlines or news about us (both for good and bad reasons, of course). We create that naturally and unarguably better than anyone else in e-sports. What EG is seeking is a situation that allows Slasher to be Slasher and EG to be EG.
This is clearly sour grapes over getting scooped on your own story. What exactly is the situation that allows Slasher to be Slasher while also not breaking stories when he uncovers them? And how does he even pretend to be a neutral presenter of facts in this situation?
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On January 17 2013 01:30 IdrA wrote:
idiot
Like I said, you are quite welcome to your opinion of me, but at least attempt to sound smart before smarting off about how smart you are.
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EPT
