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No one is saying Slasher is not entitled to do what he does, it's just about the fact that it's hurting the scene and in that respect the hand that feeds him as well.
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On January 16 2013 11:22 The Devastator wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 11:18 neurosx wrote:On January 16 2013 11:14 mainerd wrote:
Slasher reports stuff early, what's the big deal, some people seem to want it. The teams don't have to like it, Slasher's trying to make a buck in the market just like the players, teams, their owners and the sponsors are. Why does he have to be publicly pilloried for it? You don't have to like the guy or what he does, but this kind of early reporting is pretty standard, not just in sports news but in technology news, politics, entertainment, etc. Alex should just stop giving info to Slasher if he has a problem with it. It seemed really selfish on Alex's part to turn this into something so dramatic, where he's somehow entitled to the views on a piece of information that's left his control.
Why Alex thinks he deserves this deference from Slasher is beyond me. Is it because of the health and growth of eSports? eSports is not some fantasy market where the rules which govern every other market do not apply. Don't like early reporting, that's your problem, not Slasher's, instead of blowing it up in public how about dealing with it appropriately in private so you aren't likely to have your announcements spoiled? Show some class. The thing is with leaking the news early everyone is losing, like TB said, he/we could get some awesome _actual_ journalism and exclusive interviews but he'd rather just leak the news to get quick page views. I mean good for him that's how he gets most of he pageviews but overall we're all losing with this system. Reporting something is journalism! Acting as a mouthpiece for a company and only doing what they on the other hand is not journalism!
If you're a journalist and you turn down a chance for an exclusive interview to go along with your leak, then you should be fired.
Edit: Or, more generally, turning down a major opportunity just because you don't want to put in the effort is just horrible work ethic.
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The problem with this discussion is that both sides have too much at stake, we'd need some external people talking about that because Slasher is living out of those news leaks and it makes Gamespot happy he's getting more views so they might give more space to esports which would mean more mainstream players would hear about it.
But it reduces the amount of exposure and the factor at which a video could go viral and get to the frontpage of reddit or something like that so the team owners gets pissed.
It's really tricky and I think it's a bit too early in esports life to find a middle ground yet, but maybe this is a beginning
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I don't particularly like Slasher. I don't particularly dislike Slasher either. Sometimes I enjoy his content, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I think he goes overboard with this "breaking the news" thing. But how could I possibly be in a situation to tell him he shouldn't do that? Hell, how could anyone be in that position? I can see why Alex is frustrated, but this is not a Slasher problem, this is an EG problem. If they really didn't want to have the, for example, Jaedong announcement leaked, then they should have made sure that there wasn't a leak.
For all this talk of "sports", that's how real sports work. As far as I know, Slasher hasn't broken any explicit agreement not to leak something. If a reporter gets wind of a big transfer or other announcement, he's going to leak it if it serves him and his employer. Alex is right to want as big a share of the profits as possible to go to EG. As TL want it to go to TL, Axiom want it to go to Axiom, MLG want it to go to MLG and yes, Gamespot and Slasher want it to go to Gamespot and Slasher.
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On January 16 2013 11:17 dannystarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 11:14 TotalBiscuit wrote:On January 16 2013 11:12 Polygamy wrote:
TB says all this about using slasher as a tool right now but I feel as if something got leaked he didn't intend TB would be pissed. Not really, I have a million combined subscribers, I crush Gamespots reach when it comes to this stuff, I couldn't care less. Most of the eyes I want to put on my content don't even know who Slasher is. The point I made however is valid, our reach is one of the few exceptions to the rule and quite frankly I discussed this in detail on the show and you seem to have cherrypicked from it. TB I thought everything you said was well spoken. I just see Slasher reporting the news early and hurting the teams which fund the esports industry. That needs to stop. We want esports to grow, not fail.
You heard it here first, esports is literally dying because people found out jaedong was going to EG a few days early.
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On January 16 2013 11:07 dAPhREAk wrote:
quick clarification -- has slasher leaked information that he received improperly or was provided with an agreement that he wouldnt leak it before a certain date?
he is a journalist, its his job to leak information unless its somehow unethical for him to leak it. its the team's jobs to keep their information private if they want it private. dont give slasher your information if you dont want him to leak it, and certainly dont blame him for doing what journalists do--provide information to the community. however, if he is violating agreements or doing something unethical, fuck slasher.
the counter is that the teams can control the information--dont tell slasher, tell your players not to communicate with slasher. control your own people, dont try to control the media. its a give and take. if they dont want slasher to leak information, give him something better to prevent the leak.
Pretty much this. dAPhREAk hit the nail on the head, this type of situation really could be handled behind the scenes without all the unnecessary drama.
I don't think the lines of journalism need to be nearly as vague as they are made out to be. Inevitably the ones controlling the information should define the lines. If they don't want information to be leaked, then don't tell anyone. If you tell someone that turns out to not be trustworthy, cut them off from future information. It's in their best interest to stay in the loop anyway.
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It's just not fun to have players recrutement leaked like that.
Let the team make awesome intro like Liquid or EG do. Let there be hype.
Slasher basicly spoiled everyone about Liquid'Snute and I feel it break a lot of the hype around it.
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On January 16 2013 11:23 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 11:22 The Devastator wrote:On January 16 2013 11:18 neurosx wrote:On January 16 2013 11:14 mainerd wrote:
Slasher reports stuff early, what's the big deal, some people seem to want it. The teams don't have to like it, Slasher's trying to make a buck in the market just like the players, teams, their owners and the sponsors are. Why does he have to be publicly pilloried for it? You don't have to like the guy or what he does, but this kind of early reporting is pretty standard, not just in sports news but in technology news, politics, entertainment, etc. Alex should just stop giving info to Slasher if he has a problem with it. It seemed really selfish on Alex's part to turn this into something so dramatic, where he's somehow entitled to the views on a piece of information that's left his control.
Why Alex thinks he deserves this deference from Slasher is beyond me. Is it because of the health and growth of eSports? eSports is not some fantasy market where the rules which govern every other market do not apply. Don't like early reporting, that's your problem, not Slasher's, instead of blowing it up in public how about dealing with it appropriately in private so you aren't likely to have your announcements spoiled? Show some class. The thing is with leaking the news early everyone is losing, like TB said, he/we could get some awesome _actual_ journalism and exclusive interviews but he'd rather just leak the news to get quick page views. I mean good for him that's how he gets most of he pageviews but overall we're all losing with this system. Reporting something is journalism! Acting as a mouthpiece for a company and only doing what they on the other hand is not journalism! Tweeting one liners of upcoming news isn't journalism. Doing interviews, research, and opinion pieces is journalism.
This. I really don't consider writing a 10 lines article announcing a player joining a team journalism sorry, anyone with the connections could do that
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It is a management failure not a journalist failure.
If Alex G. doesn't want that information out there available to Slasher then don't let it get there.
Alex G. is at fault not Slasher.
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Great show. I would love to hear what Nazgul thinks about Slasher leaking Snute and how (if it all) if affected their views and hype. It's easy to pick on Alex and EG as it seems to be the hipster thing to hate EG. I think it would be different if we had more team owners, such as Nazgul, weigh in.
Also, TB continues to impress with how he navigates through this industry. Even giving backhanded compliments to Slasher and him not even realizing (or caring) :D. Great show guys.
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People blaming Slashed for doing the "easy" thing.. How about you let everyone sign NDA on info that you don't want to get leaked?
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On January 16 2013 11:23 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 11:22 The Devastator wrote:On January 16 2013 11:18 neurosx wrote:On January 16 2013 11:14 mainerd wrote:
Slasher reports stuff early, what's the big deal, some people seem to want it. The teams don't have to like it, Slasher's trying to make a buck in the market just like the players, teams, their owners and the sponsors are. Why does he have to be publicly pilloried for it? You don't have to like the guy or what he does, but this kind of early reporting is pretty standard, not just in sports news but in technology news, politics, entertainment, etc. Alex should just stop giving info to Slasher if he has a problem with it. It seemed really selfish on Alex's part to turn this into something so dramatic, where he's somehow entitled to the views on a piece of information that's left his control.
Why Alex thinks he deserves this deference from Slasher is beyond me. Is it because of the health and growth of eSports? eSports is not some fantasy market where the rules which govern every other market do not apply. Don't like early reporting, that's your problem, not Slasher's, instead of blowing it up in public how about dealing with it appropriately in private so you aren't likely to have your announcements spoiled? Show some class. The thing is with leaking the news early everyone is losing, like TB said, he/we could get some awesome _actual_ journalism and exclusive interviews but he'd rather just leak the news to get quick page views. I mean good for him that's how he gets most of he pageviews but overall we're all losing with this system. Reporting something is journalism! Acting as a mouthpiece for a company and only doing what they on the other hand is not journalism! Tweeting one liners of upcoming news isn't journalism. Doing interviews, research, and opinion pieces is journalism.
bullshit. it's the very definition of news agencies. they are not the only part of journalism, but they're part of journalism as everything else you mentioned. and still, slasher is all but one guy.
calling him lazy is the easy way out, when this industry is all but able to pay one single guy for his work.
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awesome intros/splash pages > 1 line tweets.
also 1 line tweets is a really lazy way of "announcing" anything.
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On January 16 2013 11:23 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 11:22 The Devastator wrote:On January 16 2013 11:18 neurosx wrote:On January 16 2013 11:14 mainerd wrote:
Slasher reports stuff early, what's the big deal, some people seem to want it. The teams don't have to like it, Slasher's trying to make a buck in the market just like the players, teams, their owners and the sponsors are. Why does he have to be publicly pilloried for it? You don't have to like the guy or what he does, but this kind of early reporting is pretty standard, not just in sports news but in technology news, politics, entertainment, etc. Alex should just stop giving info to Slasher if he has a problem with it. It seemed really selfish on Alex's part to turn this into something so dramatic, where he's somehow entitled to the views on a piece of information that's left his control.
Why Alex thinks he deserves this deference from Slasher is beyond me. Is it because of the health and growth of eSports? eSports is not some fantasy market where the rules which govern every other market do not apply. Don't like early reporting, that's your problem, not Slasher's, instead of blowing it up in public how about dealing with it appropriately in private so you aren't likely to have your announcements spoiled? Show some class. The thing is with leaking the news early everyone is losing, like TB said, he/we could get some awesome _actual_ journalism and exclusive interviews but he'd rather just leak the news to get quick page views. I mean good for him that's how he gets most of he pageviews but overall we're all losing with this system. Reporting something is journalism! Acting as a mouthpiece for a company and only doing what they on the other hand is not journalism! Tweeting one liners of upcoming news isn't journalism. Doing interviews, research, and opinion pieces is journalism.
Yes it is, just because it is light on the detail does not make it not journalism.
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On January 16 2013 11:23 Tachion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 11:22 Goibon wrote:
I still don't understand how he's getting this info in the first place. That's the crux of this for me and i can't get past that. If he finds something out he should report it. If you don't want him finding it out, don't fucking tell him.
I dunno. It's clearly more complicated than that becuase if it was that simple, he wouldn't be able to leak these stories. He won't be getting them much longer if things continue as they are though.
Will be HILARIOUS if they create a anti Slasher group, union or w/e and he still breaks the news before them.
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On January 16 2013 11:29 The Devastator wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 11:23 Whitewing wrote:On January 16 2013 11:22 The Devastator wrote:On January 16 2013 11:18 neurosx wrote:On January 16 2013 11:14 mainerd wrote:
Slasher reports stuff early, what's the big deal, some people seem to want it. The teams don't have to like it, Slasher's trying to make a buck in the market just like the players, teams, their owners and the sponsors are. Why does he have to be publicly pilloried for it? You don't have to like the guy or what he does, but this kind of early reporting is pretty standard, not just in sports news but in technology news, politics, entertainment, etc. Alex should just stop giving info to Slasher if he has a problem with it. It seemed really selfish on Alex's part to turn this into something so dramatic, where he's somehow entitled to the views on a piece of information that's left his control.
Why Alex thinks he deserves this deference from Slasher is beyond me. Is it because of the health and growth of eSports? eSports is not some fantasy market where the rules which govern every other market do not apply. Don't like early reporting, that's your problem, not Slasher's, instead of blowing it up in public how about dealing with it appropriately in private so you aren't likely to have your announcements spoiled? Show some class. The thing is with leaking the news early everyone is losing, like TB said, he/we could get some awesome _actual_ journalism and exclusive interviews but he'd rather just leak the news to get quick page views. I mean good for him that's how he gets most of he pageviews but overall we're all losing with this system. Reporting something is journalism! Acting as a mouthpiece for a company and only doing what they on the other hand is not journalism! Tweeting one liners of upcoming news isn't journalism. Doing interviews, research, and opinion pieces is journalism. Yes it is, just because it is light on the detail does not make it not journalism.
Yeah, we'll keep that in mind when anyone wants to go to school and major in journalism
tell them that all you need to do is write 160 characters or less, and poof you're gosu at journalism.
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I really liked the point incontrol was trying to make. Nobody else in the conversation was bringing up the cost/benefit analysis that only slasher can look at. Is he getting such great views on these posts compared to his normal ones, and is that worth pissing off a bunch of teams and players? If it is for slasher, then I think there's very little chance he stops. However if he does look at it and view it as not worth it, he'll probably town it down.
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On January 16 2013 11:07 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 11:05 Ansinjunger wrote:
If teams are, in IdrA's words, "marketing agencies," shouldn't that put them in direct competition with journalists? Clamp down your own leaks or live with the consequences. Slasher's job isn't to do what's best for EG or TL. It might be nice if he could do what's best for EG and him, but that's a judgment call. If they can convince the regular audience that it's best to ignore Slasher, then Slasher will be forced to change, but you can't force him directly. it's more convoluted than that, lots of organizations are involved and have to be privy to that information and we cant control all of them. it's in slashers best interest to work with the organizations here and to respect them, because as alex says he's costing himself information and if he just used what he has less lazily he could work in tandem with them and get just as many, if not more viewers.
True, there's the risk of IPL-like leaks, and it would very possibly be a win/win for Slasher to work with EG and other teams more directly. Alex's behavior toward him wasn't exactly convincing though. TB made a much more cogent argument that wasn't just whether Slasher's work is selfish or whether it helps esports. Framing as Alex did set up Slasher to look like the bad guy, when most of us have jobs to make a living.
I got the impression they've discussed this before, but on air was not the best place to become exasperated. It's embarrassing to say now, but I was pleasantly surprised that he was alone in being rude to Slasher. I thought if the guy who has claimed to rein in his players' behavior was going off the handle, it could get pretty ugly.
I'd like to believe these things will settle themselves naturally, like people ignoring Slasher if he has nothing of value to say (or the other way around), but I'm wary of the larger companies and their need to control information and put out the most positive spin.
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On January 16 2013 11:31 ronpaul012 wrote:
I really liked the point incontrol was trying to make. Nobody else in the conversation was bringing up the cost/benefit analysis that only slasher can look at. Is he getting such great views on these posts compared to his normal ones, and is that worth pissing off a bunch of teams and players? If it is for slasher, then I think there's very little chance he stops. However if he does look at it and view it as not worth it, he'll probably town it down.
Uh, honestly?
The reach of posts on Gamespot is probably much larger than things on EG's site, which pretty much is only going to get views by people who are already fans of EG. So yeah.. Leaking info on Gamespot's site is much more useful to "growing esports" than formally announcing stuff on their own.
So pissing people off in exchange for getting information to a wider gaming audience is good.
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So a corporation is getting mad because a journalist is doing his job and not disciplining their players for leaking sources to said journalist. Blame everyone but yourself is the motto I guess.
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EPT
