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On October 25 2012 00:29 Urasim wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 00:19 Hider wrote:On October 25 2012 00:13 Wingblade wrote:On October 25 2012 00:08 Urasim wrote:On October 25 2012 00:03 DKR wrote:
My god, how is anyone on Destiny's side? Just listened to it and he spent the whole time trying to interrupt people, shouting, spitting his dummy out.
He didn't listen to a single point raised and the scene would be better for him gone. He actually stopped and agreed with some of their points... What I think is the most surprising thing about the show, was at the end of the show, they all agreed that Blizzard fucked up and they need to fix it. So, they actually agree with Destiny they are just to ashamed to say "we agree with most of Desiny's points". Did you even watch the show? Idra and Incontrol agreed with Destiny multiple times, and Destiny kept blindly shouting the same thing over and over. I think Incontrol was being too nice at the start when he said Destiny is usually intelligent besides that post. Destiny is rarely, if ever, intelligent and last night proved it. Then why did Incontrol have to say it was the stupidest thing he have ever read? He agreed with Destiny in a lot of ways, yet he still felt the need to open the debate by such a personal attack. I am convinced that had Incontrol opened by debating in a more polite ways, Destinty wouldn't have been so aggressive in the debate as well. I definitely give Incontrol the primary responsibility for the outcome of the debate. Honestly, I doubt Destiny would have even wanted on the show if incontroll would have been more mature about the subject. He wanted on to defend his points because he was getting bashed so hard by someone who wasn't even debating the points. His rant, before Destiny came on, was just insulting Destiny. He didn't once say what was good or bad about them. He just stated over and over that Destiny was dumb for making them. How can you say that you have years of debating from college, or whatever, and scream hate for 15 minutes not debating anything. Pretty sure he failed his debate class if that is how he debates.
Incontrol is a joke Oh I debated in college ohhh. I debated POFO and LD at national competition levels and I can tell you right now he knows nothing of competitive debate. And to top it all off he says all the time well my background in parliamentary debate. HAHAHAHAHA parli is the biggest fucking joke style of debate around
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On October 25 2012 00:26 vultdylan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 00:13 Wingblade wrote:On October 25 2012 00:08 Urasim wrote:On October 25 2012 00:03 DKR wrote:
My god, how is anyone on Destiny's side? Just listened to it and he spent the whole time trying to interrupt people, shouting, spitting his dummy out.
He didn't listen to a single point raised and the scene would be better for him gone. He actually stopped and agreed with some of their points... What I think is the most surprising thing about the show, was at the end of the show, they all agreed that Blizzard fucked up and they need to fix it. So, they actually agree with Destiny they are just to ashamed to say "we agree with most of Desiny's points". Did you even watch the show? Idra and Incontrol agreed with Destiny multiple times, and Destiny kept blindly shouting the same thing over and over. I think Incontrol was being too nice at the start when he said Destiny is usually intelligent besides that post. Destiny is rarely, if ever, intelligent and last night proved it. I wouldn't go as far as saying Destiny isn't intelligent, rather I do believe that he is completely immature over the whole matter. They brought him on the show in order to hear his point and for him to disprove any allegations that he is being dumb about the pitchfork post he had. Rather than try to explain himself and prove his point with the support of solid evidence, he screamed and said the same thing over and over, "ITS ALL BLIZZARD'S FAULT etc. etc." This is where the line was drawn for me. Sure, I do agree with some of the points Destiny has, since he seems to have a completely different perspective than most pros nowadays, but the fact that he had to interrupt everyone who was trying to give their input by raising his voice and shouting profanities. Yes, the whole argument blew way out of proportion, but I believe that iNcontroL and IdrA were rightfully trying to explain to Destiny that there is no use relying on Blizzard to make changes, but rather the community should try to figure out a way to continue the growth of SCII and make it as successful as games like LoL. Destiny is saying these things and blaming not only Blizzard, but a lot of the community for the downfall of SCII as an e-sport in comparison to others. But, what I think people don't realize is that instead of making mature claims and introducing potential solutions for this problem that are under our control (and not under that of Blizzard's), he completely blew off every rebuttal iTG had, which justifies the comment IdrA said about how Destiny should quit bantering and switch games if he wants. The fact that people are up in arms over iNcontroL and IdrA making these comments is ignorant. Destiny fans are saying that they should apologize for what they said, due to the fact that they were inappropriate and really have no influence because of their lack of recent results. But, when had Destiny had results, or rather, when has Destiny EVER expressed his care for the community and growth of the game? He has been kicked off teams for lack of maturity, and he has pretty much dedicated most of his (streaming) time to games other than SCII, yet you take his claims to be the messiah of the SCII competitive scene. No one on iTG is at fault for the argument, and none of them should apologize, because they respected Destiny and brought him on the show in the first place to prove people wrong in terms of his opinion, but he ruined that for himself. PS: Props to PainUser for being neutral on the issues. Sure, he is not a renowned player or anything, but he definitely expressed the need for balanced discussions and really wanted both sides to come together in a safe and unbiased manner.
I typically equate a lack of maturity and common sense to a lack of intelligence. It takes intelligence and common sense to figure out "hmmm, if I give this nude pic of a girl to a bunch of my friends, something bad will probably happen." or how about: "hmm maybe I should stop shouting at people and actually listen to what they have to say." destiny has proven time and again that he has a lack of street smarts/common sense. I tend to equate those things with intelligence, but I don't really care how you consider it. Your point is still correct IMO.
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On October 25 2012 00:31 colossusFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 00:27 xzidez wrote:
I hate to admit it but destiny is right. Don't you remember the shitstorm that spread through internet like a wildfire when blizzard announced that you had to use real name on the official forums after BNet 2.0 release ?
Its not that blizzard doesn't care. Its that they care even more about the actual $$ they get on the game.. and this crap is the worst PR nightmare they can possible get. There is no way they can avoid it now, similar to when they said you were supposed to use your real name.
If we people would just have sucked it up like idra and incontrol is suggesting and doing "what we can" instead of getting all mental over the forums.. we would have been forced to use real names.. And guess what? We don't..,. EXACTLY what the fuck can we do!!?? rhetorical question we can not do jack shit as a community with out blizzard what is the community going to get together in a huge circle jerk and hack blizzard so we can implement the changes we want? the problems ly with blizzard so idra and incontrols point that we as a community can only do what we do is fucking ridiculous we cant do shit about blizzard being fucked only blizzard can.
They weren't trying to say that the community can influence what Blizzard is doing, they even said it. They said there is no use trying to coerce Blizzard into changing the game because even after two years of trying to do that, they have had enough of the lack of response on Blizzard's end. It is what the community can do to increase the quality of production of things like tournaments and leagues to increase interest in e-sports that they want to work for. They know they can't change the game that Blizzard makes, but rather the way the public views it and how competition is put out there.
BTW clean up your vocabulary. I have seen you on other threads, and it is rather immature. And it doesn't help your case.
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On October 25 2012 00:29 Urasim wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 00:19 Hider wrote:On October 25 2012 00:13 Wingblade wrote:On October 25 2012 00:08 Urasim wrote:On October 25 2012 00:03 DKR wrote:
My god, how is anyone on Destiny's side? Just listened to it and he spent the whole time trying to interrupt people, shouting, spitting his dummy out.
He didn't listen to a single point raised and the scene would be better for him gone. He actually stopped and agreed with some of their points... What I think is the most surprising thing about the show, was at the end of the show, they all agreed that Blizzard fucked up and they need to fix it. So, they actually agree with Destiny they are just to ashamed to say "we agree with most of Desiny's points". Did you even watch the show? Idra and Incontrol agreed with Destiny multiple times, and Destiny kept blindly shouting the same thing over and over. I think Incontrol was being too nice at the start when he said Destiny is usually intelligent besides that post. Destiny is rarely, if ever, intelligent and last night proved it. Then why did Incontrol have to say it was the stupidest thing he have ever read? He agreed with Destiny in a lot of ways, yet he still felt the need to open the debate by such a personal attack. I am convinced that had Incontrol opened by debating in a more polite ways, Destinty wouldn't have been so aggressive in the debate as well. I definitely give Incontrol the primary responsibility for the outcome of the debate. Honestly, I doubt Destiny would have even wanted on the show if incontroll would have been more mature about the subject. He wanted on to defend his points because he was getting bashed so hard by someone who wasn't even debating the points. His rant, before Destiny came on, was just insulting Destiny. He didn't once say what was good or bad about them. He just stated over and over that Destiny was dumb for making them. How can you say that you have years of debating from college, or whatever, and scream hate for 15 minutes not debating anything. Pretty sure he failed his debate class if that is how he debates.
iNcontroL refuted Destiny's points in the same manner which Destiny initially proved his points.
And since when did we as a gaming community have such large sticks up our asses? Are we really going to dismiss the things iNcontroL said (which were nearly spot-on yesterday imo) because he wasn't 100% professional and mature in his delivery? Give me a fucking break.
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On October 24 2012 23:54 Urasim wrote:
From what I get from this stupid argument is that there are two sides.
Side A (Destiny among many, many others) thinks Starcraft2 cannot be fixed by anyone but the Blizzard development team. There are some things that might help slow the death, but ultimately it falls onto Blizzard to change the game.
Side B (Incontrol, djWheat, and Idra) thinks that Blizzard cannot, or will not, change the game, and that it's the communities responsibility to reinvigorate Starcraft2's e-sports scene.
What I don't understand is how Side B plans on doing this... There has been ZERO suggestions. Do they even know that there is a problem? Are they going to stick their heads in the sand and hope it gets better?
100% agreed.
Producing content such as streams, videos etc can only keep the audience, not increase the numbers.
The only way to substancially grow SC2 wiewer numbers is by making the game easily accessible, more casual-friendly and actually keeping players interested in playing for as long as possible.
We all know only Blizzard is capable of this, so Destiny and others are just frustrated that Blizzard isn't doing what should be done 2 years ago.
It's important however, that we keep on trying to make Blizzard do what they should, since it's better that giving up!
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I don't get how this is actually a big situation that people are getting freaked out about. A group of guys who agreed about 80% of a problem got into a heated argument over the other 20% and talked over each other while doing it. We just had three presidential debates here in the USA which were basically the same thing, but the didn't country cannibalize itself and call for public apologies the next day.
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I'm not a fan of any sides, I think that none of the sides was actually right except maybe painuser who was constantly interrupted or ignored by the co-hosts that said they were "trying to discuss" anything. But I think the point is at least Destiny is trying to do something, he is trying to achieve something with the posts and truly hopes that the community gets better. I know that Idra and Incontrol agrees with this point but rather than thinking of a practical way of doing something, they just said they agree and acknowledge that blizzard is not going to do anything, and thats it. I think that although the pro community does make a difference but it still has to go back too blizzard to make casual gamers enjoy more of sc2. Yet I dont think incontrol and idra had any attempt to try to make an actual effort to try to resolve this problem at the moment.
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On October 25 2012 00:26 colossusFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 00:20 Wingblade wrote:On October 25 2012 00:10 colossusFTW wrote:On October 25 2012 00:02 Wingblade wrote:On October 24 2012 23:32 monkybone wrote:On October 24 2012 23:30 Golbat wrote:
Here's my objective take on the situation:
Destiny is correct, to a point. The onus is in fact on Blizzard to improve their game. Chat channels, a better way for UMS maps to be played by casuals, unranked 1v1, whatever. The problem is that Blizzard not only knows that they need to fix all those things, they know that we know that they know they need to fix all those things. And they still don't do it. No amount of #saveHotS twitter bombs or whiny reddit threads are going to make blizzard do anything.
This is where iNcontoL, IdrA, and DJWheat come in. They know that this is the case. They also know that there are things they can do that have the potential to increase or at least hold steady the amount of people participating in SC2 as an eSport. So they do them. They aren't worried about what Blizzard is or is not doing. They know that it's pathetic for there to be "lag screens at Blizzcon", but they can't make those lag screens not happen. So they focus on other things, things that they can improve and change.
And that is the real difference between what Destiny was saying and what ITG was saying.
On another note, I think DJWheat's "explosion" after Destiny hung up was not only warranted, but completely the response I was expecting from him. Because let's be honest, it was a "pussy-ass cop-out" on Destiny's part. The entire argument devolved into something that was deliciously devoid of fluff, which is why I watch DJWheat's shows in the first place. Glad someone feels the same way as me about this. Same here. Amazing that Idra/Incontrol make all the rational points and people support the screaming, ignorant buffoon(Destiny). This is the guy we essentially evicted from our community for his lack of common sense now screaming Doomsday prophecies like the guys preparing for the end of the Mayan calendar. And people ARE ACTUALLY BUYING IT. Another mindless incontrol follower You blind yourself to what really happened. Incontrol ranted shitting on destiny FOR 15 MINUTES BEFORE DESTINY GOT ON THE CALL. And even then destiny was calm until incontrol thought everone thinks im hilarious let me do a screaming randy savage impression which is why destiny started yelling in the first place. when painuser said lets keep this civil incontrol even admitted he started yelling first because of the randy savage impression at least have a mind of your own. Im an Incontrol supporter... Ooook. Incontrol is the worst Protoss player to ever call himself a "professional" gamer. Incontrol was not very civil in that argument. I didn't say anything about Incontrol. Idra was the intelligent one actually making good points. DjWheat's TV show comparison was very good as well. Destiny shouted the same exact damn thing every time he spoke. And Idra agreed with him, and explained his counter viewpoint. So Destiny shouted THE SAME POINT IDRA AGREED WITH. And then he acts like a little child with the "hahaha I get the last word!" routine that I pulled in GRADE SCHOOL. Destiny is an immature child with a blatant lack of common sense. Don't call me a blind Incontrol follower when it's pretty obvious your a Destiny fanboy. It was a 3v1 debate for an hour with idra throwing snyde ass little remarks in there go back to lol and shit like idra has done anything for the community lately whens the last time idra placed top 8 ? 2010? And he has the audacity to act like that when he even says he's only in it for the money like he actually cares about us the community ? give me a fucking break.
When has Destiny ever placed top 8 in any tournament anywhere? Never? Seriously, when was Destiny EVER a half decent player? Destiny is a butthurt child angry at the SC2 community because he's been blacklisted by sponsors(and rightfully so). Of course he's the "pro"(I can't even call him that he's so bad) with this opinion, he's been shunned by a lot of the community as the fool that he is.
Idra was making good points throughout the entire show. Destiny was shouting like a child.
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On October 25 2012 00:38 garlicface wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 00:29 Urasim wrote:On October 25 2012 00:19 Hider wrote:On October 25 2012 00:13 Wingblade wrote:On October 25 2012 00:08 Urasim wrote:On October 25 2012 00:03 DKR wrote:
My god, how is anyone on Destiny's side? Just listened to it and he spent the whole time trying to interrupt people, shouting, spitting his dummy out.
He didn't listen to a single point raised and the scene would be better for him gone. He actually stopped and agreed with some of their points... What I think is the most surprising thing about the show, was at the end of the show, they all agreed that Blizzard fucked up and they need to fix it. So, they actually agree with Destiny they are just to ashamed to say "we agree with most of Desiny's points". Did you even watch the show? Idra and Incontrol agreed with Destiny multiple times, and Destiny kept blindly shouting the same thing over and over. I think Incontrol was being too nice at the start when he said Destiny is usually intelligent besides that post. Destiny is rarely, if ever, intelligent and last night proved it. Then why did Incontrol have to say it was the stupidest thing he have ever read? He agreed with Destiny in a lot of ways, yet he still felt the need to open the debate by such a personal attack. I am convinced that had Incontrol opened by debating in a more polite ways, Destinty wouldn't have been so aggressive in the debate as well. I definitely give Incontrol the primary responsibility for the outcome of the debate. Honestly, I doubt Destiny would have even wanted on the show if incontroll would have been more mature about the subject. He wanted on to defend his points because he was getting bashed so hard by someone who wasn't even debating the points. His rant, before Destiny came on, was just insulting Destiny. He didn't once say what was good or bad about them. He just stated over and over that Destiny was dumb for making them. How can you say that you have years of debating from college, or whatever, and scream hate for 15 minutes not debating anything. Pretty sure he failed his debate class if that is how he debates. iNcontroL refuted Destiny's points in the same manner which Destiny initially proved his points. And since when did we as a gaming community have such large sticks up our asses? Are we really going to dismiss the things iNcontroL said (which were nearly spot-on yesterday imo) because he wasn't 100% professional and mature in his delivery? Give me a fucking break.
Incontroll didn't refute anything... He ended up agreeing with Destiny that Blizzard needs to fix things with their game. Beyond that he didn't offer anything whatsoever that could possible help the scene. He even made up numbers, like Destiny, about things that he doesn't even know about(casuals and pirating).
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On October 25 2012 00:36 vultdylan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 00:31 colossusFTW wrote:On October 25 2012 00:27 xzidez wrote:
I hate to admit it but destiny is right. Don't you remember the shitstorm that spread through internet like a wildfire when blizzard announced that you had to use real name on the official forums after BNet 2.0 release ?
Its not that blizzard doesn't care. Its that they care even more about the actual $$ they get on the game.. and this crap is the worst PR nightmare they can possible get. There is no way they can avoid it now, similar to when they said you were supposed to use your real name.
If we people would just have sucked it up like idra and incontrol is suggesting and doing "what we can" instead of getting all mental over the forums.. we would have been forced to use real names.. And guess what? We don't..,. EXACTLY what the fuck can we do!!?? rhetorical question we can not do jack shit as a community with out blizzard what is the community going to get together in a huge circle jerk and hack blizzard so we can implement the changes we want? the problems ly with blizzard so idra and incontrols point that we as a community can only do what we do is fucking ridiculous we cant do shit about blizzard being fucked only blizzard can. They weren't trying to say that the community can influence what Blizzard is doing, they even said it. They said there is no use trying to coerce Blizzard into changing the game because even after two years of trying to do that, they have had enough of the lack of response on Blizzard's end. It is what the community can do to increase the quality of production of things like tournaments and leagues to increase interest in e-sports that they want to work for. They know they can't change the game that Blizzard makes, but rather the way the public views it and how competition is put out there. BTW clean up your vocabulary. I have seen you on other threads, and it is rather immature. And it doesn't help your case.
But if the community can't get blizzard to do anything how is this game to stay alive the entire point here is that getting sponsors and shit isnt going to help THE CASUAL GAMER. Without casual gamers you have no community. Nobody in this thread is a professional gamer we are all casual gamers and while we might be already hooked on starcraft you need new fans we cannot survive forever on the same community we have had for years. The point destiny is making is that you need more casual gamers for a community and at this point in time there is no incentive to play this game unless you are a professional. So when people go on their computer they say holy shit why the fuck would I play sc2 when I could play a user friendly game like dota2 or LoL.
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Russian Federation7 Posts
I can't believe Incontrol hasn't apologized yet. That high-five is the most procovative thing I have ever seen in a starcraft 2 debate.
I am guessing that InControl is somewhat delusional. He probably thought there are a tons of people would love that soft of behavior from him and/or think its really hilarious.
Probably expected that highfive would result in "OMG LOL EPIC WIN GEOFF FTW xD"-type of a reaction, but it backfired hard.
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On October 25 2012 00:04 Pwnographics wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 23:57 Voreau wrote:On October 24 2012 23:52 Pwnographics wrote:On October 24 2012 23:46 Josh111 wrote:
I think people just get a hard on getting upset at incontrol and people he is associated with..
Incontrol presented an argument counter to what destiny was saying, yes he said some jokes and poked fun but so did destiny.
You guys lost respect because djwheat was passionate? and everyone who is "upset" are completely ignoring Destiny who is as guilty as any one else in the show.
They had an argument and people raised their voices... big fucking deal, get over it. How do you guys exist in the real world? Yeah, Destiny is guilty, he admits it... And he apologized... What's your fucking point mate? The host isn't supposed to be 'passionate' if that's even an excuse. If Obama vs Romney had a 'passionate' Romney supporter, then wtf? Are you even switched on? And being passionate is an excuse for what djWHEAT did? Then you can excuse nearly everything Destiny has fucked up on as being passionate. What did djWHEAT do? Get pissed off cause he brought a guy on HIS show, supported by sponsors, and said guy acts like a child and then gives up completely by insulting 2 of the hosts and hanging up? That was utterly disrespectful to one of the most tenured, respected and knowledgeable names in eSports. Who is Destiny compared to djWHEAT?? Absolutely nothing. djWHEAT's reaction was completely justified given the circumstances. What did djWHEAT do? Let's see... He invited someone on his show to give an opposing argument to add depth to the conversation. He then refuses to let said person finish their argument or even start it. Makes some random obscure analogy to breaking bad and American idol, sides with Incontrol/IdrA as a host. Prevents PainUser from talking when he's the only one trying to be objective. And then throws one of the most full retard scenes I've ever seen. I even linked that scene to some of my friends who don't play video games so they could have a good laugh at a 40 year old man screaming about how some guy didn't want to talk over Skype anymore. He was by far the worst host I've ever seen...The host should not be going ape shit in any circumstances... It's the fucking host... You don't see Obama vs Romney hosted by Rice, then when Obama goes well fuck I'm out of here. Rice jumps out of her seat screams you fucking cop out RAHWAOHNF LOOLOLOLOL.
are you serious? first, djWHEAT did not invite destiny, destiny wanted to come in the show, it was not djWHEAT that went out looking for him. Second, not only did destiny made his point, he made it 10 times allways repeating the same thing. third, the analogy is a dam good one, and it translates very well what happens on most entertainment industries. forth, both destiny, djWheat and incontrol talked over Painuser. fifth, djWheat response was actually not that bad as what provoked it, destiny took the insults to a even lower level and then just ran out, insulting not only idra and incontrol but also the show itself and it was purely a petty move with no point other then insulting. sixth, i bet you are one of those guys who loves taking stuff out of context and just likes to feel he is better then the others, wheats response was a wrong one, but it purely comes from the passion he has for the subject, if you take context away, you can make fun of anyone, wish i can, in a very wild guess, say it is what you like to do. Last, comparing ItG to obama vs romney has absolutley no sense, the show is not a debate, djWheat is as much of a host as the other 3 guys and doesn't have to realy mother other then just saying stuff like "lets move on".
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On October 25 2012 00:43 colossusFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 00:36 vultdylan wrote:On October 25 2012 00:31 colossusFTW wrote:On October 25 2012 00:27 xzidez wrote:
I hate to admit it but destiny is right. Don't you remember the shitstorm that spread through internet like a wildfire when blizzard announced that you had to use real name on the official forums after BNet 2.0 release ?
Its not that blizzard doesn't care. Its that they care even more about the actual $$ they get on the game.. and this crap is the worst PR nightmare they can possible get. There is no way they can avoid it now, similar to when they said you were supposed to use your real name.
If we people would just have sucked it up like idra and incontrol is suggesting and doing "what we can" instead of getting all mental over the forums.. we would have been forced to use real names.. And guess what? We don't..,. EXACTLY what the fuck can we do!!?? rhetorical question we can not do jack shit as a community with out blizzard what is the community going to get together in a huge circle jerk and hack blizzard so we can implement the changes we want? the problems ly with blizzard so idra and incontrols point that we as a community can only do what we do is fucking ridiculous we cant do shit about blizzard being fucked only blizzard can. They weren't trying to say that the community can influence what Blizzard is doing, they even said it. They said there is no use trying to coerce Blizzard into changing the game because even after two years of trying to do that, they have had enough of the lack of response on Blizzard's end. It is what the community can do to increase the quality of production of things like tournaments and leagues to increase interest in e-sports that they want to work for. They know they can't change the game that Blizzard makes, but rather the way the public views it and how competition is put out there. BTW clean up your vocabulary. I have seen you on other threads, and it is rather immature. And it doesn't help your case. But if the community can't get blizzard to do anything how is this game to stay alive the entire point here is that getting sponsors and shit isnt going to help THE CASUAL GAMER. Without casual gamers you have no community. Nobody in this thread is a professional gamer we are all casual gamers and while we might be already hooked on starcraft you need new fans we cannot survive forever on the same community we have had for years. The point destiny is making is that you need more casual gamers for a community and at this point in time there is no incentive to play this game unless you are a professional. So when people go on their computer they say holy shit why the fuck would I play sc2 when I could play a user friendly game like dota2 or LoL.
Couldn't agree more, there has to be something done for the casual gamers instead of only caring about the pro-community for the casual gamers like us to be able to enjoy the game more, and LoL or DOTA2 has certainly done that compared to sc2. But Idra and Incontrol hasnt been able to give anyone an actual idea of what they can do to make it better, they only said that they know blizzard is not going to do shit, and thats about it, there is no attempt to help the casual gamers, they know but they are not doing it, and yet they are flaming on someone that is at least trying to make an attempt to make things better and even insulting him, its just wrong
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i wanted to write a lot of stuff about my past in counter strike and warcraft 3, about the reality that esports hasnt been born with sc2 and that the people on this show shouldnt try to talk esport if they know jackshit about it.
but in reality i just wanna underline the statement of before: you people know jackshit about esports, and the only one with a legitimate way in this discussion (painuser) was cut off by wheat/destiny/incontrol rants that had no point to them but to be right.
no wheat, sc2 hasnt innovated esports, esports made the starcraft brand BIG outside of korea.
no incontrol, we shouldnt stop asking blizzard for the things they promised.
and no destiny, sc2 isnt dying just because its shrinking.
all 3 of you are as hypocrite as r/starcraft in its best times, and that is what in the end will hurt sc2. inflated egos talking about stuff (esports) they never actually had any contact with because they played a niche game for 10years which had no part in the growth of any of this, now you come by and while you ignore all of the glorious past esports had, you try to determine its future.
the irony being, you know nothing about its past.
so i know this comment is stupid and the english is terrible, but im hurt. i have been part of esports before you guys got into it, and you dont know anything about it... go learn about CPL, WSVG, WCG, ESWC and all the IEMs and many more different tourneys and events we had.. understand that we fans of counter strike, quake and warcraft 3 build the infrastracture which enables you to be professional right now (asus, dh, esl, we made this leagues and tourney hosters big), and come to respect the position you are in right now.
i will never post on this site again, and never watch your show again. i hope you dont take this words as an attack but as the honest opinion of a guy that loved esports before you people made money with it, and i will probably still love it when you guys are gone to new jobs. keep haiting but dont talk about esports, because you are just part of it for 2 years and have no right nor knowledge.
one last tipp to wheat, if you wanna talk about shit like this invite people like affentod from the ESL or some guys from dreamhack or carmac, all of them would give you insights into the real esport that has experienced all of this already.
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On October 25 2012 00:43 colossusFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 00:36 vultdylan wrote:On October 25 2012 00:31 colossusFTW wrote:On October 25 2012 00:27 xzidez wrote:
I hate to admit it but destiny is right. Don't you remember the shitstorm that spread through internet like a wildfire when blizzard announced that you had to use real name on the official forums after BNet 2.0 release ?
Its not that blizzard doesn't care. Its that they care even more about the actual $$ they get on the game.. and this crap is the worst PR nightmare they can possible get. There is no way they can avoid it now, similar to when they said you were supposed to use your real name.
If we people would just have sucked it up like idra and incontrol is suggesting and doing "what we can" instead of getting all mental over the forums.. we would have been forced to use real names.. And guess what? We don't..,. EXACTLY what the fuck can we do!!?? rhetorical question we can not do jack shit as a community with out blizzard what is the community going to get together in a huge circle jerk and hack blizzard so we can implement the changes we want? the problems ly with blizzard so idra and incontrols point that we as a community can only do what we do is fucking ridiculous we cant do shit about blizzard being fucked only blizzard can. They weren't trying to say that the community can influence what Blizzard is doing, they even said it. They said there is no use trying to coerce Blizzard into changing the game because even after two years of trying to do that, they have had enough of the lack of response on Blizzard's end. It is what the community can do to increase the quality of production of things like tournaments and leagues to increase interest in e-sports that they want to work for. They know they can't change the game that Blizzard makes, but rather the way the public views it and how competition is put out there. BTW clean up your vocabulary. I have seen you on other threads, and it is rather immature. And it doesn't help your case. But if the community can't get blizzard to do anything how is this game to stay alive the entire point here is that getting sponsors and shit isnt going to help THE CASUAL GAMER. Without casual gamers you have no community. Nobody in this thread is a professional gamer we are all casual gamers and while we might be already hooked on starcraft you need new fans we cannot survive forever on the same community we have had for years. The point destiny is making is that you need more casual gamers for a community and at this point in time there is no incentive to play this game unless you are a professional. So when people go on their computer they say holy shit why the fuck would I play sc2 when I could play a user friendly game like dota2 or LoL.
Sure, games like DotA2 and LoL are more accessible (being free to play) than SCII. But I know casual gamers that don't play any Moba or RTS that find LoL streams EXTREMELY confusing. Sure, they are fun to watch and exciting when there is action, but I as well as others think that the only way that you can fully understand a LoL stream or tournament is if you have played the game. SCII is WAY easier to understand, its just the game itself requires more skill.
The casual gamer shouldn't give a damn about winning or losing or whatever. They play it to have fun, and everyone chooses what they play with that mindset. Blizzard doesn't have to make the game easier/change the game in order to make it accessible to more people. It is the way that tournaments and the competitive scene is portrayed and distributed that will influence viewership and casual gamers to play.
Although I do agree that Blizzard needs to get things in line to make the experience more enjoyable for players (namely UMS and accessible chat channels), but the community doesn't need to freak out over this.
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I'm glad I never subscribed to the flawed logic that is the fanbase of Destiny or Incontrol.
The only thing that surprises me involves Destiny taking a shit on DJWheat's as a host by asking to get on then just leaving in a childish manner. If JPMcdaniel had been the host he would have just dumped Destiny halfway through one of his repetitious arguments, but Wheat isn't that kind of person, and he ended up paying for it. So why are we hating on DJWheat for the rant he made?
Destiny has dissuaded many people from caring about or playing SC2 with his outrageous claims while in the background streaming LoL. Idra and Incontrol see this and have a huge problem with how he is doing things so they rant about him, despite agreeing with the criticisms of Blizzard. DJWheat makes the naive mistake of inviting two parties to argue about different things out of context.
A little clarity goes a long way, people.
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I thought it was a great show. Obviously the inclusion of Destiny meant that it descended into nonsensical yelling, but other than that, great job as usual! Thanks for all the hard work, Wheat.
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Not going to watch the show anymore after Wheat and Geoff acting like 9 year olds.
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EPT
