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Patate
Canada441 Posts
SC2 needs to have Battle.Net generated tournaments (like in WC3) but with real money inscription fees and prizes. Blizzard gets 10% of the money, the rest is shared with the players.. everyone puts in 10$ or so.. etc. That's the solution.. make this game a little like online poker. You won't make profits off a free game with some skins up for sale. You need innovation. D3's real money auction house was one, but the problem was that the game was based around it.. these tournaments would not. | ||
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johnny123
521 Posts
all the members on Inside the game thought it was not the ideal thing to do( make a big shitpost on reddit about sc2 doom). But at the end of the day, none of them could say how they would have handled it instead to get blizzard aware of such problems with the game. Its not like all these problems havent been stated over and over for months now.And the entire cast agrees, Yet nothing is done. But when destiny rallys a mob to get blizzards attention (like literally the only thing that can actually get their attention). They are being called idiots basically. The part that really irked me was when incontrol said he was getting a raise as if thats a sign of the situations getting better for sc2. Sure EG is doing well, but what about the other teams.. I can tell you now, from watching alot of chanman shows with mark from quantic. I can tell quantic does not have much longer in this scene to survive, mark is complaining every fucking show about sponsors, it seems its coming out of his money for the most part. I dont see quantic lasting that much longer, and so to for a couple other teams. People like incontrol refuse to see outside the box of their success within the sc2 scene. For guys like destiny that need viewers to survive in the scene, Its clear to me why they are very concerned with the direction blizzard is taking. To me its an insult in the face to say all this reddit drama is meaningless bullshit that should be swept under the rug. | ||
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zefreak
United States2731 Posts
On October 24 2012 18:17 Destiny wrote: - Uh, how about skins or decals for your units? Maybe a fancy border/graphic by your name? Maybe some new kind of portrait? Maybe entire new models for units? Hats for your marines? Paid name change? - Show me a demographic study of the age group that plays both games. I seriously doubt that SC2 fans are all these old, mature businessmen with tons of money to spend. That's a ridiculous (and insulting) claim to make. - It's the best I can do, no one else has done any so it's hard to say. - Yeah, man. Me and the 4.5 million other people that paid for this game. Have fun with your 10k viewer tournaments with you $500 prize pools. I never thought I'd see the day where people are begging for micro-transactions. Bethesda was ahead of the curve with it's horse armor dlc apparently. If you want to grow SC2, try not turning into a whiny, shit-flipping community because all of the micro-transactions in the world couldn't stop people from being turned off from this nonsense. You've done a great thing Destiny, it sure gives new players a good impression of the game when every other comment on TL/reddit/ingame chat channels is about how SC2 is dead. | ||
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Gheed
United States972 Posts
On October 24 2012 18:23 Patate wrote: SC2 having microtransactions is more tricky.. therefore here is my solution. Look at my name.. that's right I'm Patate, so get ready for this injection of truth and greatness: SC2 needs to have Battle.Net generated tournaments (like in WC3) but with real money inscription fees and prizes. Blizzard gets 10% of the money, the rest is shared with the players.. everyone puts in 10$ or so.. etc. That's the solution.. make this game a little like online poker. You won't make profits off a free game with some skins up for sale. You need innovation. D3's real money auction house was one, but the problem was that the game was based around it.. these tournaments would not. Or they could just make multiplayer free and sell each chapter of the campaign for 20 bucks. Weren't they going to have Blizzard made custom maps to sell, too? Whatever happened to that? There was going to be a "marketplace" or something. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
There are people that play sc2, and most of them are probably on TL, that take the game seriously, are in the age range of 24+, and can generally spend more. These are the people that pay for HD on every tournament out there, purchase all the razer and steelseries stuff and probably spend too much time practicing that one hydra-overlord all-in than is strictly necessary. Yet, there are tons of casuals. True casuals. These guys play a 1v1 when forced to, and probably not on the ladder but against their friends. The games they enjoy are either stuff like Desert Strike and Monobattles (these are hardcore casuals that claim they play and are good at sc2) or, and I think this is a much broader category, they play games like mineralz (you survive wave after wave, and lose if you haven't grinded out levels). In the latter category, you can do microtransactions and a large number of other things easily. People would probably not mind paying a little extra to save time and play their favourite waves over and over again. If you ask them for 10 dollars, they'd never pay. But they might be willing to pay 99 cents if there's a "I'm a poor map maker", next to the safe transaction button. The latter is most important as a contribution from Blizzard. Currently, map makers cannot profit from their maps. The only monetization would go through external sources - their own website with adds or non-game related services that one can purchase on the website. Yet, microtransactions through the Blizzard client should also be available. That would drive the map making community that is currently somewhat sluggish (Big Game Hunters took how long to create?). The better the arcade map making, the more casuals will enjoy the true power of the sc2 engine. + Show Spoiler + The arcade market itself is very robust at the moment and as anyone can upload a competing map, it's likely that prices would always remain "micro". People are willing to pay on their favourite game (that they and their friends know already) out of convenience, and the lack of convenience will stop them from migrating to a competing game immediately. But a few dollars on the price tag might be enough to overcome the convenience bump. | ||
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TheExile19
513 Posts
On October 24 2012 18:17 Destiny wrote: - Uh, how about skins or decals for your units? Maybe a fancy border/graphic by your name? Maybe some new kind of portrait? Maybe entire new models for units? Hats for your marines? Paid name change? - Show me a demographic study of the age group that plays both games. I seriously doubt that SC2 fans are all these old, mature businessmen with tons of money to spend. That's a ridiculous (and insulting) claim to make. - It's the best I can do, no one else has done any so it's hard to say. - Yeah, man. Me and the 4.5 million other people that paid for this game. Have fun with your 10k viewer tournaments with you $500 prize pools. - I have a hard time imagining people investing in the image/personalization of what is innately a more distant experience - commanding an army - than customizing and showing off with a specific champion in the way that league players specialize. I will admit that I could be wrong and that this could potentially show limited success when coupled with a new focus on custom games, buuuuut I'm not convinced blizzard is going to cut in on this by HOTS. nor am I necessarily certain that they need to worry about it in the face of a more strictly delineated e-sports scene by genre - super-casual MOBA commands more viewers, super-awesome RTS has a niche, healthy viewership that can't be replicated anywhere else. such is the situation we seem to find ourselves in. - I really don't think that was the image idra intended to convey; I would guess at a 3-5 average age difference between the two scenes. my anecdotal experience is that league is quite popular among the younger high-school aged crowd. - probably should just junk it then - just sayin', you seem to have made your choice in all but the ultimate announcement that you're switching. it's not an indictment of your character, we have so much other material to draw on for such a task! On October 24 2012 18:28 Ghanburighan wrote: The better the arcade map making, the more casuals will enjoy the true power of the sc2 engine. this is actually a much more interesting/sensible approach than grubbing from riot and valve. | ||
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Yttrasil
Sweden651 Posts
I mean, to me it sounded not only like he was adressing Destiny and many others to open up their mind and get real, but also as a rant about Idra and InControl being extensively narrow minded as well. In general, it more sounded like he was trying to actually take both sides while it, sadly however came out more as in support of Idra and InControl while it actually really wasn't. Or was it just me, and he actually was taking Idra's and InControl's side all the way? | ||
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zefreak
United States2731 Posts
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eden-san
Belgium42 Posts
The entertainment value of SC2 relies entirely on 2 key criterias, than are themselves depending on a few key elements (+ my own opinion on each point): 1) How fun the game is to play * How good is the game? (Very good) * Is it meaningful to play the game? (In its current state? Unlikely) **** Can I make friends playing this game? (Hardly, needs more social features) **** Can I earn money playing this game? (Hardly, need to be top .1% to earn anything from it) **** Can I earn fame playing this game? (Hardly, need to be top .1% to earn anything from it) **** Can I earn self-satisfaction playing this game? (Hardly, see Ladder Anxiety) 2) How fun the game is to watch * Are the graphics and mechanics good? (Yes) * Are the personalities fun to watch? **** Players (Even though some are great, most are too boring IMO) ******** Personality? (For the most parts, no... Too boring) ******** Skill? (Yes) ******** Diversity? (Personally, NO) **** Casters (YES) * Content **** Is there enough content? (YES, actually overwhelming tbh) **** Is it entertaining? (Not as much as it could be) I'm going to explain my own opinion of all this: Starcraft II is a GREAT game, but still boring Let's take another great, could be boring game, but turned out for millions to be actually extremely fun for a long time... World of Warcraft. Why? Guilds. Groups. Social interactions. Starcraft II is a single player game for 99.9% of the people out there, it lacks social interactions and it hurts. I am not a pro-gamer and will never be (too busy working, wife, blabla), and the only purpose I have when starting up SC2 is to search a game right away and line 'em up. But here's the problem. Frustration easily settles in because it is not an easy game, and I don't have the commitment to play long hours to continuously improve... So what should I do? Quit? Right now the only answer that SC2 is giving me is: YES. - No LAN = No playing with my real life buddies - No support for clans = No playing with internet buddies And you know what? Look at all the people going at the gym, what usually happens to those trying to convince themselves they have to shape up and end up going all alone? They get bored / tried and stop after a few months at best. What happens when those same people go work out with their friends?! You get my point I guess. I played CS professionally (sponsored) when I was a teenager and my guess is that if CS had been a single player game I'd have given up pretty quickly. But it was a team game... And that changed everything for me. This game needs incentive to keep players playing, be it friends, money, fame, or all of them :-) This is Blizzard's responsability (+1 to Destiny). Starcraft II is a great game to watch, but the tourneys are (for the most part) boring For someone who is not following the scene everyday, if I have to tune in and watch some GSL Code S games, all I get is Starcraft II games. Now that might sound weird but people are looking for entertainment and sometimes it's not about the games, but about the players. I'm going to rant here a little bit, but I think my biggest problems with all the tourneys going on is that there is no diversity, we're watching game after game after game and more and more it feels like grinding to me. It's not fun anymore for me. The only tourney that is HUGE on entertainment value IMO is the Homestory Cup. I got seriously excited after each daily video they were releasing, and we got much more backstory on the players which is what I think people love as well about the game (see more of MKP, MC, Stephano and so on doing random shit, THAT is pretty cool). A lot of players actually HAVE a lot of character, just noone is actually spending time to promote that (and a hype thread with 5 tons of text on TL isn't the way for most people, we need hype TRAILERS, things to get us excited ffs). This is the responsability of the content providers IMO. To some extent the community has a responsability as well as consumers to: - convince Blizzard to put the extra effort to get more people to play the game, and to make sure these players will stay - influence the content providers to generate more exciting content (go for QUALITY, not QUANTITY, please) (+1 to Idra & Co) Alright, gotta go back to work, see ya! NB: Haven't watched the whole episode of Inside the Game, just the part where DJWheat goes apeshit. | ||
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zefreak
United States2731 Posts
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Anta
Germany434 Posts
but this time... DJWheat really? | ||
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CpT
United States9 Posts
On October 24 2012 17:57 Destiny wrote: lol, no. Making Breaking Bad into anything like American Idol would require a serious compromise on the show's part. Making SC2 accessible to casuals by fixing custom games and adding microtransactional based activities has zero impact on the professional scene. That's just one of the many ways that analogy was completely flawed. Also hilarious LOL at you trying to claim that the SC2 community has a godsend conversion rate for advertising, give me a fucking break and stop acting like we're so goddamned elite compared to every other community out there. Why so much bashing for LoL? Remember the shitfest with the $20 PPV for MLG? Remember the complaining about $5 subs for GomTV? And you're telling me that SC2 is filled with rich kids just looking to spend $100's on sponsor products? Just from the polling from my audience alone (a primarily SC2 one) there is some 70% cross-polination between our audience and LoL. That means that if there was a tournament with 50k viewers, and LoL tournaments had 500k viewers, by not advertising to the SC2 people you're only missing out on 15k sets of eyes. And please stop with the "sponsors love the scene and put so much money into it" because that's such fucking bullshit. Yeah, you guys at the huge EG money making factory might get paid well, but don't act like it's like that for the entire rest of the scene. You and Incontrol both make salaries greater than the majority of Code S players, it's hardly a fair point to compare things at. I love you Destiny, but there are far too many flaws in this argument to count. Making Breaking Bad into anything like American Idol would require a serious compromise on the show's part. Making SC2 accessible to casuals by fixing custom games and adding microtransactional based activities has zero impact on the professional scene. The idea of adding microtransactions is kind of hard to justify in a game like SC2. Microtransactions work in games like LoL, HoN, and Dota 2 because the system in which their ladders operate and the sheer variety of playable characters the game allots allows for such a system. Unless Blizzard wants to give me a chance to buy more noticeable unit decals, or cooler portraits I really don't see what they could possibly offer me. On the other hand, if they did fix the custom game situation I do believe that would be a step in the right direction. The Breaking Bad/American Idol comment is actually too stupid for me to justify. It tried to oversimplify a very complicated issue, and therein, lost all validity as an argument. If I were you I would have ignored it... Just from the polling from my audience alone (a primarily SC2 one) there is some 70% cross-polination between our audience and LoL. That means that if there was a tournament with 50k viewers, and LoL tournaments had 500k viewers, by not advertising to the SC2 people you're only missing out on 15k sets of eyes. Never introduce statistics with multiple inherent biases to support a claim. Polling your audience is kind of like a child asking their mother if they are pretty or handsome. I don't feel like going further into the amount of bias in the statistic, but if you'd like me to delve further in another post, feel free to argue. I do agree that we as a community need to recognize that their is a problem that can only be rectified with the aid of Blizzard. In that you are completely correct and I personally believe that the #SaveHOTS stuff, while a shitfest, did make some headway. We aren't the chosen people guys, if we sit back and let our game die, then it will. I think what both sides need to realize is that you are two sides of the same coin. One side wants to say, we should not be complacent with the state of our game, and the other is saying, we cannot be complacent with the state of our e-sport. Neither side is wrong here. If we fall behind in the production value, entertainment value, and advertisement of our e-sport you can bet your ass that our game will die, because it is on this foundation that our game has thrived up to this point. However, we cannot be complacent with Blizzard either, we cannot sit back and let them destroy the game we are trying to promote by turning a blind eye to its inherent design flaws, or else all our promotion as an e-sport is useless because there is no game with which we can base a sport around. Valve and Riot aren't doing anything spectacular. They are supporting their client and listening to their community. We need Blizzard to do the same or their is no way that we will be able to compete with those games. Now some will say, look we don't have to compete with those games, but the fact of the matter is that e-sports is still very immature as an idea. We have no data supporting any claim that two game's can co-exist. All we know is that the game at the top of the pyramid can support a fan base large enough to legitimize its professional play as an industry. So for god's sake, can this dumb argument stop. It's like listening to two people argue over whether a tree makes a sound if it falls in the forest, or the fucking US presidential debates. Basically, you are all throwing black and white arguments, a.k.a shit, at each other, without acknowledging the existence of the gray area, and as a result the community is getting covered in fecal material. Please work together to fix the problem, even if your paths differ, and stop the mudslinging. Now if you'll excuse me... I have to take a shower. This whole thing makes me feel dirty. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
You dont really describe what I - as a casual player - have a problem with since you are looking at the game from a semi-pro perspective. BW - in comparison to SC2 - was MUCH SLOWER and that is what stops the casual player who gets overwhelmed by "too much to do". Having a limitation of 12 units per group was GREAT as a casual since you cant cope with more. The production speed boosts, super tight unit movement (with a nerfed Siege Tank) and unlimited unit selection makes sure that the defensive player - which most casuals have to be to have a chance at surviving attacks - is disadvantaged. These things can only be changed by Blizzard and no one else. Added to this is the stupidity of BNet 0.2 which the community has complained about since the beta of WoL. The excuse of piracy is silly right now since SC2 has sold about its maximum amount of copies. @Destiny While I totally disagree your excess useage of swear words (DJWheat is actually worse) I fully agree with you on the fact that HotS will only increase the viewer numbers for a short time. HotS adds simply more funky units which casuals will have problems to control and to play against and thats where Blizzard is totally stupid. The game is simply too complicated/fast for a casual player and the whole custom game desaster list is no help. | ||
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happyness
United States2400 Posts
For me, as a casual player/fan, all I want is a good RTS, and for now SC2 is the one I enjoy the playing and watching the most. If another, better RTS kills SC2 then I won't care much. Until then no Moba will replace SC2 for me, and there are many, many others who feel the same way. Even if the community shrinks a little, ultimately it will plateau at a respectable amount of viewers because an RTS is different from a MOBA. | ||
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Akta
447 Posts
On October 24 2012 17:45 Moonling wrote: I don't know if it's the 'real' problem but I agree the about the thin skin of the community. You guys want to know the real problem? The starcraft 2 COMMUNITY has thin skin LoL is nowhere near this drama filled there is some new shit on this site and SC reddit every week about somebody doing something a little bit wrong and "upsetting" everyone. Get over your fucking selves. The toxic environment here is disgusting and you guys keep arguing about what... A friend high five another friend? After a heated debate? Guys if you can't watch 3 people argue about something their passionate about then why watch a TALK show. I can understand that the name calling was unnecessary, but still I open Reddit and there is a 1,000. Fucking 1000 page thread about this shit. What in the actual fuck.. so much drama. Djwheat and Incontrol made no sense to me last night and probably fell off my "I really like these people" list because of how they behaved, but that doesn't mean I hate them or anything like that. Or I can't say I would hire Jessica for a manager position if I was in a position to make an esports team but I don't think the rest of her life should be miserable or whatever either. It's what it is, people are people and I like that, it's a spice of life. Having bad guys to root against is great in all sports as well. Would be amazing if for example both Incontrol and Destiny were top contenders in tournaments for that reason alone. Which is one of the reasons I honestly want there to be some drama. | ||
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TheDraken
United States640 Posts
On October 24 2012 18:10 TheExile19 wrote: - microtransactions in LoL are motivated by preferences for champions and desire to expedite the leveling/runing process. can you give some potential SC2 microtransactions that would affect the gameplay in a similar fashion that would also be organic and not a derivative joke that even the most stereotypical of casuals wouldn't take the bait for? - I don't think pointing out that many SC2 fans - indeed, most people - are frugal and that we question/are still questioning the subscription systems necessarily invalidates idra's point about the differences in age groups. - are you seriously using one poll as a point, particularly one with a participant pool biased towards confirming your own bias? - are you going to switch to league soon? goodness I hope so pretty sure this is another one of incontrol's accounts. that or this guy just can't argue with what destiny is actually saying. same thing? User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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TheExile19
513 Posts
On October 24 2012 19:00 TheDraken wrote: pretty sure this is another one of incontrol's accounts. that or this guy just can't argue with what destiny is actually saying. same thing? like, you have a post i just made to throw reddit talking points at; this is after destiny was gracious enough to return and invalidate what you just said by responding to my points in mostly serious fashion. i really think you do yourself a disservice by being such an obvious troll. i can sense the potential in you, my son. | ||
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Anta
Germany434 Posts
On October 24 2012 18:59 Akta wrote: I don't know if it's the 'real' problem but I agree the about the thin skin of the community. Djwheat and Incontrol made no sense to me last night and probably fell off my "I really like these people" list because of how they behaved, but that doesn't mean I hate them or anything like that. Or I can't say I would hire Jessica for a manager position if I was in a position to make an esports team but I don't think the rest of her life should be miserable or whatever either. It's what it is, people are people and I like that, it's a spice of life. Having bad guys to root against is great in all sports as well. Would be amazing if for example both Incontrol and Destiny were top contenders in tournaments for that reason alone. Which is one of the reasons I honestly want there to be some drama. agree most of those stuff is in fact interesting in a way. i didn't like the way iNcontrol attacked Destiny when he wasn't on the show yet. the dispute between iNcontrol/IdrA and Destiny was entertaining eventually. but i didn't like djWheats role in there. | ||
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MaestroSC
United States2073 Posts
On October 24 2012 19:04 TheExile19 wrote: like, you have a post i just made to throw reddit talking points at; this is after destiny was gracious enough to return and invalidate what you just said by responding to my points in mostly serious fashion. i really think you do yourself a disservice by being such an obvious troll. i can sense the potential in you, my son. TheExile19 is TheDraken's father... who saw that twist coming? | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
The way to make Blizzard listen is to STOP PLAYING THE GAME for a month or two. HotS is the right time to do it, because they expect more sales. Personally I will keep watching sometimes but never ever buy the expansion ... because Blizzard doesnt deserve the money. Charles Boycott | ||
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