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On October 24 2012 17:53 MaestroSC wrote:
How messed up the world is right now:
Geoff has completely lost it... and has resolved to insult every individual person who insults him on the internet...
Greg on the other hand is having peaceful conversations with the people who disagree with him...on teamliquid.net....
This is so strange.. where am I...
So strange to see Greg post on TL.net again. This is how passionate he is about blizzard sucking at promoting starcraft 2 as an esport.... times must be desperate indeed. 0.o
Monster Energy and Steelseries won't sponsor a dead game's team 
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On October 24 2012 17:50 snexwang wrote:
So a few dudes got all riled up and had their periods on a stream because they're all super passionate and shit. Cool. Grow some cojones and get over it.
What do you want to happen? Apologies all around? What the fuck is that going to achieve? You people are getting mad for the sake of getting mad. You live and breathe drama and it's pathetic.
Play some fucking Starcraft.
Listen to this guy, seriously. Drama turns casual viewers off.(which apparently your goal is gaining casual viewers)
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On October 24 2012 17:40 Gheed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 17:35 Matoo- wrote:On October 24 2012 17:10 CiCeRoSC2 wrote:On October 24 2012 16:54 GolemMadness wrote:On October 24 2012 16:47 CiCeRoSC2 wrote:
When Destiny started talking about BW, I would have loved to have seen the ITG guys remind the whole community that BW's success was only partially due to Blizzard. The game wasn't even balanced if you used the maps they provided. People outside of Blizzard were who made BW a great esport. Too many people, perhaps Destiny included, think that BW was this holy grail of balance all on its own and that it was destined to be successful because Blizzard was touched by god in the late 90's. It wasn't. It became balanced and became a successful esport because people outside of Blizzard took the game and made it their own. Nobody needed #saveBW to make it sucessful, they did the legwork to make proper maps, start teams, make tournaments, and form the organizations that made it what it was. That's not the point at all. Destiny even says on the show that the average person doesn't care about how balanced PVZ is at the highest levels or whatever; they just want to play UMS maps with their friends and stuff. That's what most people in Brood War were doing: UMS maps, BGH or fastest. That's the point he's trying to make. I was one of those guys in BW that mostly played UMS maps when I was 13. I think most of us didn't care about pro BW at all, just like most DOTA players in WC3 didn't care about pro WC3 at all. Just because more people play the custom games doesn't necessarily mean that they are supporting the pro scene at all. As far as I can tell, the people that followed pro BW were the ones that played the normal game. That was just my experience though, I don't think anyone has really looked into this in any scientific fashion. I could be terribly wrong. Maybe it would be different now because the NA/EU pro scene is much stronger and there is better streaming technology. We don't really know though. I think there would certainly be some spillover of people playing UMS/custom maps that would discover esports through that, but I suspect it would be a small proportion of them. Yeah I don't get this "solution" either. People like to play team games with their friends, so we'll give them 4v4s/FFAs on UMS maps and they'll end up watching our 1v1 tournaments on standard maps. Uh what? Why not just play a team game like LoL and then watch tournaments that actually resemble the game you're playing? It's also horrible communication-wise. You can't go around telling people your game is two different things. If the only way out for 1v1 games is to advertise themselves to casuals by pretending they're team games then 1v1 games are fucked. I had friends in WC3 who only played 4v4s and custom games, but we still watched vods/replays of moon, grubby, etc. Even though they didn't 1v1 themselves, I could still link them an awesome 1v1 game and tell them "hey watch this, it's a cool game" and they would understand it and enjoy it. Painuser was trying to make the point, before he was shouted down, that the broadest base of the game is the casual base. Everyone starts there, and it builds up from there. Nobody buys SC2 and jumps immediately into 1v1 ladder and starts grinding games to get into master league except for people who already played WC3/BW/other competitive games.
Haha I was just editing my post to add some anecdotal evidence of my own when you posted yours. Apparently we had very different experiences. But just a question, if these friends of yours started playing again today, and SC2 had great 4v4/UMS maps but was still balanced for 1v1 and having exclusively 1v1 tournaments... Would these friends still pick SC2 instead of going for a MOBA that has been built from the ground up, and defines itself completely, as a team game? Didn't your friends play WC3 because there wasn't any popular and high quality MOBA available at this time (DOTA1 still being in its infancy) and BW/WC3 were the only two big RTS? Things have changed since then.
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On October 24 2012 17:53 Kergy wrote:
First and last time.
Thanks for reminding me why I only pay attention to GSL and the korean scene.
lol have you heard about SlayerS?
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I understand the point Idra was making but only after reading his posts in the thread. It wasn't clear during the show. Seems pretty reasonable. It's basically just everything Destiny critiqued was true, but it's not as much of a deal breaker as he thinks it is and trying to force Blizzard to fix it is a waste of effort when you could be doing other things instead.
Not much actual disagreement on the fundamentals, rather, only on what the best way to make starcraft better is and if it's even worth trying to influence Blizzard directly. Funny how that blew up so much.
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On October 24 2012 16:18 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 16:04 TheWorldToCome wrote:
Wheat's analogy with American Idol/Breaking Bad was literally the dumbest thing I have ever heard. its a good point, he just didnt get the opportunity to carry the analogy through because everything was getting all stupid. geoff mentioned the reasons, separately, earlier in the show. marketing people are not stupid, they do not just look at viewers and allot money to them proportionately, or put all of their money into whatever has the highest viewership. their goal is to sell products, pure exposure is good and with lol (and american idol) you get that purely because theres so many people watch. however if a big percentage of those people arent likely to buy your product whether you sponsor them or not, it's not really all that important how many people watch. lol has a younger audience, many of them are much more casual fans, they're less likely to have disposable income and less likely to buy a product purely because its attached to their game. sc2 as an esport has proven its a sustainable, quality product. big companies have invested in it before and are apparently happy with the returns as they keep investing and more companies keep coming in. the fanbase is not going to disappear even if it rises and falls, and its a very dedicated, passionate fanbase. so for the analogy, lol/american idol fans = 14 year old girls with no money, sc2/breaking bad fans = real people.
lol, no.
Making Breaking Bad into anything like American Idol would require a serious compromise on the show's part.
Making SC2 accessible to casuals by fixing custom games and adding microtransactional based activities has zero impact on the professional scene.
That's just one of the many ways that analogy was completely flawed.
Also hilarious LOL at you trying to claim that the SC2 community has a godsend conversion rate for advertising, give me a fucking break and stop acting like we're so goddamned elite compared to every other community out there. Why so much bashing for LoL?
Remember the shitfest with the $20 PPV for MLG? Remember the complaining about $5 subs for GomTV? And you're telling me that SC2 is filled with rich kids just looking to spend $100's on sponsor products?
Just from the polling from my audience alone (a primarily SC2 one) there is some 70% cross-polination between our audience and LoL. That means that if there was a tournament with 50k viewers, and LoL tournaments had 500k viewers, by not advertising to the SC2 people you're only missing out on 15k sets of eyes.
And please stop with the "sponsors love the scene and put so much money into it" because that's such fucking bullshit. Yeah, you guys at the huge EG money making factory might get paid well, but don't act like it's like that for the entire rest of the scene. You and Incontrol both make salaries greater than the majority of Code S players, it's hardly a fair point to compare things at.
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people shouldnt get so emotional just because some washed up player / comedy dudes say something retarded, its really not worth the hassle
just listening to it now and they didnt get to the drama part yet but i think if weed just sticks to no drama and actual talk about the game the show could actually be worthwhile to listen to again, that would actually be a good step and its not even bothersome that there are some questionable guys talking bout the game
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On October 24 2012 17:53 Kergy wrote:
First and last time.
Thanks for reminding me why I only pay attention to GSL and the korean scene.
really? I thought it was AT LEAST slightly entertaining, the shit you need to stay away from are threads like these. community fall out and backlash is just shitty to even attempt to comprehend
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On October 24 2012 17:55 Matoo- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 17:40 Gheed wrote:On October 24 2012 17:35 Matoo- wrote:On October 24 2012 17:10 CiCeRoSC2 wrote:On October 24 2012 16:54 GolemMadness wrote:On October 24 2012 16:47 CiCeRoSC2 wrote:
When Destiny started talking about BW, I would have loved to have seen the ITG guys remind the whole community that BW's success was only partially due to Blizzard. The game wasn't even balanced if you used the maps they provided. People outside of Blizzard were who made BW a great esport. Too many people, perhaps Destiny included, think that BW was this holy grail of balance all on its own and that it was destined to be successful because Blizzard was touched by god in the late 90's. It wasn't. It became balanced and became a successful esport because people outside of Blizzard took the game and made it their own. Nobody needed #saveBW to make it sucessful, they did the legwork to make proper maps, start teams, make tournaments, and form the organizations that made it what it was. That's not the point at all. Destiny even says on the show that the average person doesn't care about how balanced PVZ is at the highest levels or whatever; they just want to play UMS maps with their friends and stuff. That's what most people in Brood War were doing: UMS maps, BGH or fastest. That's the point he's trying to make. I was one of those guys in BW that mostly played UMS maps when I was 13. I think most of us didn't care about pro BW at all, just like most DOTA players in WC3 didn't care about pro WC3 at all. Just because more people play the custom games doesn't necessarily mean that they are supporting the pro scene at all. As far as I can tell, the people that followed pro BW were the ones that played the normal game. That was just my experience though, I don't think anyone has really looked into this in any scientific fashion. I could be terribly wrong. Maybe it would be different now because the NA/EU pro scene is much stronger and there is better streaming technology. We don't really know though. I think there would certainly be some spillover of people playing UMS/custom maps that would discover esports through that, but I suspect it would be a small proportion of them. Yeah I don't get this "solution" either. People like to play team games with their friends, so we'll give them 4v4s/FFAs on UMS maps and they'll end up watching our 1v1 tournaments on standard maps. Uh what? Why not just play a team game like LoL and then watch tournaments that actually resemble the game you're playing? It's also horrible communication-wise. You can't go around telling people your game is two different things. If the only way out for 1v1 games is to advertise themselves to casuals by pretending they're team games then 1v1 games are fucked. I had friends in WC3 who only played 4v4s and custom games, but we still watched vods/replays of moon, grubby, etc. Even though they didn't 1v1 themselves, I could still link them an awesome 1v1 game and tell them "hey watch this, it's a cool game" and they would understand it and enjoy it. Painuser was trying to make the point, before he was shouted down, that the broadest base of the game is the casual base. Everyone starts there, and it builds up from there. Nobody buys SC2 and jumps immediately into 1v1 ladder and starts grinding games to get into master league except for people who already played WC3/BW/other competitive games. Haha I was just editing my post to add some anecdotal evidence of my own when you posted yours. Apparently we had very different experiences. But just a question, if these friends of yours started playing again today, and SC2 had great 4v4/UMS maps but was still balanced for 1v1 and having exclusively 1v1 tournaments... Would these friends still pick SC2 instead of going for a MOBA that has been built from the ground up, and defines itself completely, as a team game? Didn't your friends play WC3 because there was little to none high quality MOBAs available at this time (DOTA1 still being in its infancy) and BW/WC3 were the only two big RTS? Things have changed since then.
They would definitely have stayed playing SC2 longer than they did if b.net 2.0 was as good as 1.0. We used to jump around from playing BW, Diablo 2, and WC3 and had a chat channel set up with a bot where we'd congregate when we weren't on ventrilo. We all bought SC2 on the day it came out, but after a month or two SC2 just felt kind of hollow to them and they stopped playing. I played 1v1 ladder for another year or so without them, but I got kind of bored, too. Eventually, one of those friends started playing LoL and I ended up joining him.
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Oh no mommy and daddy got into a little fight. This community is so crazy, were you guys not just a couple days ago pleading with geoff to come back to SotG and now you guys have completely flipped that that table. Geoff and Destiny could of handled themselves better sure but it doesn't need more to say than that. To people freaked out by djWheat's behavior welcome to the real world that is the no fluff cussing guy he has been for years so I don't understand why some of you are all over him now because of it.
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"90% of the people, that played BW, didn't actually pay for the game." - Geoff "incontrol" Robinson. WTF!? I was a casual for BW and I OWNED four copies of it throughout the years. I watched OSL and all that shit... You claim to be a big part of the community, yet I had never heard of you till Starcraft2 in that one tournament where you got beat down so hard that the commentator said "he wasn't incontrol of that game".
I was a casual for Starcraft2, and it is such a shitty experience. So much so that I stopped playing the game, and only watched the streams. A year ago I stopped watching streams because my interest in the game died. If it were a better game where I could log in to play with my friends(I have zero friends that play Starcraft2 because they all left for better games), and have a great casual experience I would still be watching streams and supporting Starcraft2 as a whole.
It's also really, really embarrassing to ATTACK Destiny for saying something stupid... How can someone who is "respected" in this community open attack someone and throw profanities at them? Yes, he made up a few numbers, but that doesn't warrant full on verbal assault, does it?
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Went back about 10 pages, is there an mp3 of this?
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On October 24 2012 17:57 Destiny wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 16:18 IdrA wrote:On October 24 2012 16:04 TheWorldToCome wrote:
Wheat's analogy with American Idol/Breaking Bad was literally the dumbest thing I have ever heard. its a good point, he just didnt get the opportunity to carry the analogy through because everything was getting all stupid. geoff mentioned the reasons, separately, earlier in the show. marketing people are not stupid, they do not just look at viewers and allot money to them proportionately, or put all of their money into whatever has the highest viewership. their goal is to sell products, pure exposure is good and with lol (and american idol) you get that purely because theres so many people watch. however if a big percentage of those people arent likely to buy your product whether you sponsor them or not, it's not really all that important how many people watch. lol has a younger audience, many of them are much more casual fans, they're less likely to have disposable income and less likely to buy a product purely because its attached to their game. sc2 as an esport has proven its a sustainable, quality product. big companies have invested in it before and are apparently happy with the returns as they keep investing and more companies keep coming in. the fanbase is not going to disappear even if it rises and falls, and its a very dedicated, passionate fanbase. so for the analogy, lol/american idol fans = 14 year old girls with no money, sc2/breaking bad fans = real people. lol, no. Making Breaking Bad into anything like American Idol would require a serious compromise on the show's part. Making SC2 accessible to casuals by fixing custom games and adding microtransactional based activities has zero impact on the professional scene. That's just one of the many ways that analogy was completely flawed. Also hilarious LOL at you trying to claim that the SC2 community has a godsend conversion rate for advertising, give me a fucking break and stop acting like we're so goddamned elite compared to every other community out there. Why so much bashing for LoL? Remember the shitfest with the $20 PPV for MLG? Remember the complaining about $5 subs for GomTV? And you're telling me that SC2 is filled with rich kids just looking to spend $100's on sponsor products? Just from the polling from my audience alone (a primarily SC2 one) there is some 70% cross-polination between our audience and LoL. That means that if there was a tournament with 50k viewers, and LoL tournaments had 500k viewers, by not advertising to the SC2 people you're only missing out on 15k sets of eyes. And please stop with the "sponsors love the scene and put so much money into it" because that's such fucking bullshit. Yeah, you guys at the huge EG money making factory might get paid well, but don't act like it's like that for the entire rest of the scene. You and Incontrol both make salaries greater than the majority of Code S players, it's hardly a fair point to compare things at.
- microtransactions in LoL are motivated by preferences for champions and desire to expedite the leveling/runing process. can you give some potential SC2 microtransactions that would affect the gameplay in a similar fashion that would also be organic and not a derivative joke that even the most stereotypical of casuals wouldn't take the bait for?
- I don't think pointing out that many SC2 fans - indeed, most people - are frugal and that we question/are still questioning the subscription systems necessarily invalidates idra's point about the differences in age groups.
- are you seriously using one poll as a point, particularly one with a participant pool biased towards confirming your own bias?
- are you going to switch to league soon? goodness I hope so
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So many fallacies were made in that, if we can call it, debate.
The basic idea is that the foundation of this game is bad. So no matter how hard we try we will go on with a handicap.
Wheat was so off it was not even funny.
And now idra is just a tainted tiger. incontrol is not even worth mentioning.
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On October 24 2012 18:09 Urasim wrote:
"90% of the people, that played BW, didn't actually pay for the game." - Geoff "incontrol" Robinson. WTF!? I was a casual for BW and I OWNED four copies of it throughout the years. I watched OSL and all that shit... You claim to be a big part of the community, yet I had never heard of you till Starcraft2 in that one tournament where you got beat down so hard that the commentator said "he wasn't incontrol of that game".
I was a casual for Starcraft2, and it is such a shitty experience. So much so that I stopped playing the game, and only watched the streams. A year ago I stopped watching streams because my interest in the game died. If it were a better game where I could log in to play with my friends(I have zero friends that play Starcraft2 because they all left for better games), and have a great casual experience I would still be watching streams and supporting Starcraft2 as a whole.
It's also really, really embarrassing to ATTACK Destiny for saying something stupid... How can someone who is "respected" in this community open attack someone and throw profanities at them? Yes, he made up a few numbers, but that doesn't warrant full on verbal assault, does it?
If you don't play or follow the scene, why did you watch Inside the Game? Or are you just a Destiny fan?
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I was under the impression that the host for this show was Dj Wheat, not Painuser. Apparently I was wrong.
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On October 24 2012 18:10 TheExile19 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 17:57 Destiny wrote:On October 24 2012 16:18 IdrA wrote:On October 24 2012 16:04 TheWorldToCome wrote:
Wheat's analogy with American Idol/Breaking Bad was literally the dumbest thing I have ever heard. its a good point, he just didnt get the opportunity to carry the analogy through because everything was getting all stupid. geoff mentioned the reasons, separately, earlier in the show. marketing people are not stupid, they do not just look at viewers and allot money to them proportionately, or put all of their money into whatever has the highest viewership. their goal is to sell products, pure exposure is good and with lol (and american idol) you get that purely because theres so many people watch. however if a big percentage of those people arent likely to buy your product whether you sponsor them or not, it's not really all that important how many people watch. lol has a younger audience, many of them are much more casual fans, they're less likely to have disposable income and less likely to buy a product purely because its attached to their game. sc2 as an esport has proven its a sustainable, quality product. big companies have invested in it before and are apparently happy with the returns as they keep investing and more companies keep coming in. the fanbase is not going to disappear even if it rises and falls, and its a very dedicated, passionate fanbase. so for the analogy, lol/american idol fans = 14 year old girls with no money, sc2/breaking bad fans = real people. lol, no. Making Breaking Bad into anything like American Idol would require a serious compromise on the show's part. Making SC2 accessible to casuals by fixing custom games and adding microtransactional based activities has zero impact on the professional scene. That's just one of the many ways that analogy was completely flawed. Also hilarious LOL at you trying to claim that the SC2 community has a godsend conversion rate for advertising, give me a fucking break and stop acting like we're so goddamned elite compared to every other community out there. Why so much bashing for LoL? Remember the shitfest with the $20 PPV for MLG? Remember the complaining about $5 subs for GomTV? And you're telling me that SC2 is filled with rich kids just looking to spend $100's on sponsor products? Just from the polling from my audience alone (a primarily SC2 one) there is some 70% cross-polination between our audience and LoL. That means that if there was a tournament with 50k viewers, and LoL tournaments had 500k viewers, by not advertising to the SC2 people you're only missing out on 15k sets of eyes. And please stop with the "sponsors love the scene and put so much money into it" because that's such fucking bullshit. Yeah, you guys at the huge EG money making factory might get paid well, but don't act like it's like that for the entire rest of the scene. You and Incontrol both make salaries greater than the majority of Code S players, it's hardly a fair point to compare things at. - microtransactions in LoL are motivated by preferences for champions and desire to expedite the leveling/runing process. can you give some potential SC2 microtransactions that would affect the gameplay in a similar fashion that would also be organic and not a derivative joke that even the most stereotypical of casuals wouldn't take the bait for? - I don't think pointing out that many SC2 fans - indeed, most people - are frugal and that we question/are still questioning the subscription systems necessarily invalidates idra's point about the differences in age groups. - are you seriously using one poll as a point, particularly one with a participant pool biased towards confirming your own bias? - are you going to switch to league soon? goodness I hope so
- Uh, how about skins or decals for your units? Maybe a fancy border/graphic by your name? Maybe some new kind of portrait? Maybe entire new models for units? Hats for your marines? Paid name change?
- Show me a demographic study of the age group that plays both games. I seriously doubt that SC2 fans are all these old, mature businessmen with tons of money to spend. That's a ridiculous (and insulting) claim to make.
- It's the best I can do, no one else has done any so it's hard to say.
- Yeah, man. Me and the 4.5 million other people that paid for this game. Have fun with your 10k viewer tournaments with you $500 prize pools.
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On October 24 2012 18:17 Destiny wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 18:10 TheExile19 wrote:On October 24 2012 17:57 Destiny wrote:On October 24 2012 16:18 IdrA wrote:On October 24 2012 16:04 TheWorldToCome wrote:
Wheat's analogy with American Idol/Breaking Bad was literally the dumbest thing I have ever heard. its a good point, he just didnt get the opportunity to carry the analogy through because everything was getting all stupid. geoff mentioned the reasons, separately, earlier in the show. marketing people are not stupid, they do not just look at viewers and allot money to them proportionately, or put all of their money into whatever has the highest viewership. their goal is to sell products, pure exposure is good and with lol (and american idol) you get that purely because theres so many people watch. however if a big percentage of those people arent likely to buy your product whether you sponsor them or not, it's not really all that important how many people watch. lol has a younger audience, many of them are much more casual fans, they're less likely to have disposable income and less likely to buy a product purely because its attached to their game. sc2 as an esport has proven its a sustainable, quality product. big companies have invested in it before and are apparently happy with the returns as they keep investing and more companies keep coming in. the fanbase is not going to disappear even if it rises and falls, and its a very dedicated, passionate fanbase. so for the analogy, lol/american idol fans = 14 year old girls with no money, sc2/breaking bad fans = real people. lol, no. Making Breaking Bad into anything like American Idol would require a serious compromise on the show's part. Making SC2 accessible to casuals by fixing custom games and adding microtransactional based activities has zero impact on the professional scene. That's just one of the many ways that analogy was completely flawed. Also hilarious LOL at you trying to claim that the SC2 community has a godsend conversion rate for advertising, give me a fucking break and stop acting like we're so goddamned elite compared to every other community out there. Why so much bashing for LoL? Remember the shitfest with the $20 PPV for MLG? Remember the complaining about $5 subs for GomTV? And you're telling me that SC2 is filled with rich kids just looking to spend $100's on sponsor products? Just from the polling from my audience alone (a primarily SC2 one) there is some 70% cross-polination between our audience and LoL. That means that if there was a tournament with 50k viewers, and LoL tournaments had 500k viewers, by not advertising to the SC2 people you're only missing out on 15k sets of eyes. And please stop with the "sponsors love the scene and put so much money into it" because that's such fucking bullshit. Yeah, you guys at the huge EG money making factory might get paid well, but don't act like it's like that for the entire rest of the scene. You and Incontrol both make salaries greater than the majority of Code S players, it's hardly a fair point to compare things at. - microtransactions in LoL are motivated by preferences for champions and desire to expedite the leveling/runing process. can you give some potential SC2 microtransactions that would affect the gameplay in a similar fashion that would also be organic and not a derivative joke that even the most stereotypical of casuals wouldn't take the bait for? - I don't think pointing out that many SC2 fans - indeed, most people - are frugal and that we question/are still questioning the subscription systems necessarily invalidates idra's point about the differences in age groups. - are you seriously using one poll as a point, particularly one with a participant pool biased towards confirming your own bias? - are you going to switch to league soon? goodness I hope so - Uh, how about skins or decals for your units? Maybe a fancy border/graphic by your name? Maybe some new kind of portrait? Maybe entire new models for units? Hats for your marines? Paid name change? - Show me a demographic study of the age group that plays both games. I seriously doubt that SC2 fans are all these old, mature businessmen with tons of money to spend. That's a ridiculous (and insulting) claim to make. - It's the best I can do, no one else has done any so it's hard to say. - Yeah, man. Me and the 4.5 million other people that paid for this game. Have fun with your 10k viewer tournaments with you $500 prize pools.
You said you were going to bed... you lied to us, destiny!
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On October 24 2012 18:09 Urasim wrote:
"90% of the people, that played BW, didn't actually pay for the game." - Geoff "incontrol" Robinson. WTF!? I was a casual for BW and I OWNED four copies of it throughout the years. I watched OSL and all that shit... You claim to be a big part of the community, yet I had never heard of you till Starcraft2 in that one tournament where you got beat down so hard that the commentator said "he wasn't incontrol of that game".
I was a casual for Starcraft2, and it is such a shitty experience. So much so that I stopped playing the game, and only watched the streams. A year ago I stopped watching streams because my interest in the game died. If it were a better game where I could log in to play with my friends(I have zero friends that play Starcraft2 because they all left for better games), and have a great casual experience I would still be watching streams and supporting Starcraft2 as a whole.
It's also really, really embarrassing to ATTACK Destiny for saying something stupid... How can someone who is "respected" in this community open attack someone and throw profanities at them? Yes, he made up a few numbers, but that doesn't warrant full on verbal assault, does it?
stats like 80%,90% whatever of people didnt pay for BW normally factor in the chinese and korean markets where they either pirate or use a pc bang almost exclusively. i dont think anyone feels that american players didnt buy it.
the one argument that did bug me was wheat trying to pretend that sc2 made streaming happen. home streaming has existed for years, in a fairly simple manner through platforms like Xfire. the explosion in home streaming is, imo, due to the simultaneous events of better home internet connections, a rise in programs like xsplit simplifying the process and a revival of esports. now djwheat will be the first guy to give you a history lesson about how this isnt the first time we have had an esports bubble and pretty much anyone can point to the superior streaming numbers for lol, and this combined tells me that even if sc2 didnt exist, and either lol filled the space or there was another game, we would be in a pretty similar place right now. praising sc2 as the bringer of home streaming seemed really weird. i cant remember the exact wording he used but i just dont feel like sc2 made anything happen in that respect, it was just in the right place at the right time.
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EPT
