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MC: "[Flash] would definitely do well in SC2" - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
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rift
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
1819 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-30 04:54:28
April 30 2011 04:45 GMT
#81
As there are fewer differentiators of skill in SC2 I can see Flash/Jaedong/Bisu/Stork losing games or even matches to weaker players often. I don't think it's possible to become dominant in the same way considering the nature of the game.

Imagine the following scenario: Flash is invited to TSL4. Lag is not an issue at this point. Could he be upset and knocked out early by a player generally considered worse? I could definitely see it happening, and it wasn't a possibility at WCG for any of them. The differences between players are just too thin.
dukethegold
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada5645 Posts
April 30 2011 04:46 GMT
#82
If you are a champion, you need to maintain self-esteem. Of course MC can't admit to others or himself that if Flash/Jaedong/Bisu/Stork switched, the current SC2 lineup would be obliterated within three months.
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-30 04:49:31
April 30 2011 04:48 GMT
#83
On April 30 2011 13:46 dukethegold wrote:
If you are a champion, you need to maintain self-esteem. Of course MC can't admit to others or himself that if Flash/Jaedong/Bisu/Stork switched, the current SC2 lineup would be obliterated within three months.


It wouldn't, it took the current players a hilariously long time to learn and master all the timings as well as they have, and the game keeps shifting. The differences is, Brood War is basically as figured out as it's going to get, so it's just a question of who has the best mechanics and experience/training with it, SC2 is a long way from getting there, and thus is volatile. So... doesn't matter how good you are, nobody is completely dominating the scene. MC is the closest there is, and he got 2-0'd by Polt in the GSL and got knocked to the up and down matches.

Maybe 6 months, maybe not at all.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
TooN
Profile Joined February 2011
1046 Posts
April 30 2011 04:53 GMT
#84
Wait people question that Flash would do good? hahahaaha

Flash would wreck.
Jugan
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1566 Posts
April 30 2011 04:53 GMT
#85
On April 30 2011 10:54 Nik0 wrote:
Thats a really bold statement by MC.


Show me 10 statements made by MC that aren't bold @_@
Even a Savior couldn't fix all problems. www.twitch.tv/xJugan
Megaliskuu
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5123 Posts
April 30 2011 04:59 GMT
#86
On April 30 2011 13:48 Whitewing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2011 13:46 dukethegold wrote:
If you are a champion, you need to maintain self-esteem. Of course MC can't admit to others or himself that if Flash/Jaedong/Bisu/Stork switched, the current SC2 lineup would be obliterated within three months.


It wouldn't, it took the current players a hilariously long time to learn and master all the timings as well as they have, and the game keeps shifting. The differences is, Brood War is basically as figured out as it's going to get, so it's just a question of who has the best mechanics and experience/training with it, SC2 is a long way from getting there, and thus is volatile. So... doesn't matter how good you are, nobody is completely dominating the scene. MC is the closest there is, and he got 2-0'd by Polt in the GSL and got knocked to the up and down matches.

Maybe 6 months, maybe not at all.


Metagame in BW is still changing lol, Just look at Neo.G_Soulkey + Zero ZvT. And Shines crazy build that he used on Reality in MSL. TBLS are super hardworking, and masters of RTS, they'd destroy everyone pretty fast, maybe a month.
|BW>Everything|Add me on star2 KR server TheMuTaL.675 for practice games :)|NEX clan| https://www.dotabuff.com/players/183104694
Musou
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
1375 Posts
April 30 2011 05:00 GMT
#87
On April 30 2011 13:48 Whitewing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2011 13:46 dukethegold wrote:
If you are a champion, you need to maintain self-esteem. Of course MC can't admit to others or himself that if Flash/Jaedong/Bisu/Stork switched, the current SC2 lineup would be obliterated within three months.


It wouldn't, it took the current players a hilariously long time to learn and master all the timings as well as they have, and the game keeps shifting. The differences is, Brood War is basically as figured out as it's going to get, so it's just a question of who has the best mechanics and experience/training with it, SC2 is a long way from getting there, and thus is volatile. So... doesn't matter how good you are, nobody is completely dominating the scene. MC is the closest there is, and he got 2-0'd by Polt in the GSL and got knocked to the up and down matches.

Maybe 6 months, maybe not at all.

Brood War is figured out? Do you even watch BW? Every time someone makes a statement like that, the matchups get revolutionized again. In the past year alone there have been multiple metagame shifts, with the most recent one being heavy queen play against mech ZvT in the past few weeks.
space_yes
Profile Joined April 2010
United States548 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-30 05:01:37
April 30 2011 05:00 GMT
#88
On April 30 2011 13:53 TooN wrote:
Wait people question that Flash would do good? hahahaaha

Flash would wreck.


I know right? To be fair a lot of people here at TL now didn't follow pro BW so they don't know the Ultimate Weapon...
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
April 30 2011 05:02 GMT
#89
The top BW players right now are probably the most talented RTS players in general, doesn't even matter if sc2 is different

players who have been playing longer couldn't even come close to keeping up
bashalisk
Profile Joined September 2010
102 Posts
April 30 2011 05:03 GMT
#90
On April 30 2011 10:50 amarillo wrote:
oGs (P)MC, the world's best StarCraft 2 player

There's no such thing as a "best * player", so can we just refrain from flamebaiting forums with it? Thanks.
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-30 05:04:56
April 30 2011 05:04 GMT
#91
On April 30 2011 14:00 Musou wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2011 13:48 Whitewing wrote:
On April 30 2011 13:46 dukethegold wrote:
If you are a champion, you need to maintain self-esteem. Of course MC can't admit to others or himself that if Flash/Jaedong/Bisu/Stork switched, the current SC2 lineup would be obliterated within three months.


It wouldn't, it took the current players a hilariously long time to learn and master all the timings as well as they have, and the game keeps shifting. The differences is, Brood War is basically as figured out as it's going to get, so it's just a question of who has the best mechanics and experience/training with it, SC2 is a long way from getting there, and thus is volatile. So... doesn't matter how good you are, nobody is completely dominating the scene. MC is the closest there is, and he got 2-0'd by Polt in the GSL and got knocked to the up and down matches.

Maybe 6 months, maybe not at all.

Brood War is figured out? Do you even watch BW? Every time someone makes a statement like that, the matchups get revolutionized again. In the past year alone there have been multiple metagame shifts, with the most recent one being heavy queen play against mech ZvT in the past few weeks.


You misunderstood: I didn't say that it is completely figured out, nothing to learn, just that by now, it's about as figured out as it is going to get. There will be new developments, but it's not so much a question of "woah, new shit, this'll take months to figure out how to deal with it" as it is "Okay, this is unusual and unexpected, not really normal, but I've got some good ideas." Sure, there's always a little bit more to learn, but these developments aren't HUGE glaring shifts that massively change everything, people aren't suddenly discovering super effective new cheeses that kill better players really early on, etc., and SC2 is still being patched.

There's no question that Flash would be an excellent player of SC2, and definitely has the potential to be one of the best period, but I'm not certain that he'd show up, and in 3 months be winning everything left and right.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
April 30 2011 05:07 GMT
#92
Well, considering that Blizzard announced that they are going after Bots I don't think Flash could play XD.

But seriously, MC with the understatement of the year
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
Jyvblamo
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada13788 Posts
April 30 2011 05:14 GMT
#93
I get the funniest picture in my head seeing Flash playing in Coda A to win $1K.
Vundox
Profile Joined March 2011
United States182 Posts
April 30 2011 05:15 GMT
#94
On April 30 2011 14:04 Whitewing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2011 14:00 Musou wrote:
On April 30 2011 13:48 Whitewing wrote:
On April 30 2011 13:46 dukethegold wrote:
If you are a champion, you need to maintain self-esteem. Of course MC can't admit to others or himself that if Flash/Jaedong/Bisu/Stork switched, the current SC2 lineup would be obliterated within three months.


It wouldn't, it took the current players a hilariously long time to learn and master all the timings as well as they have, and the game keeps shifting. The differences is, Brood War is basically as figured out as it's going to get, so it's just a question of who has the best mechanics and experience/training with it, SC2 is a long way from getting there, and thus is volatile. So... doesn't matter how good you are, nobody is completely dominating the scene. MC is the closest there is, and he got 2-0'd by Polt in the GSL and got knocked to the up and down matches.

Maybe 6 months, maybe not at all.

Brood War is figured out? Do you even watch BW? Every time someone makes a statement like that, the matchups get revolutionized again. In the past year alone there have been multiple metagame shifts, with the most recent one being heavy queen play against mech ZvT in the past few weeks.


You misunderstood: I didn't say that it is completely figured out, nothing to learn, just that by now, it's about as figured out as it is going to get. There will be new developments, but it's not so much a question of "woah, new shit, this'll take months to figure out how to deal with it" as it is "Okay, this is unusual and unexpected, not really normal, but I've got some good ideas." Sure, there's always a little bit more to learn, but these developments aren't HUGE glaring shifts that massively change everything, people aren't suddenly discovering super effective new cheeses that kill better players really early on, etc., and SC2 is still being patched.

There's no question that Flash would be an excellent player of SC2, and definitely has the potential to be one of the best period, but I'm not certain that he'd show up, and in 3 months be winning everything left and right.


LOL please stop talking out of your ass if you don't keep up with BW. BW metagame has changed more than SC2 in the past 4 months
implying Suzy isn't perfect
Slago
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada726 Posts
April 30 2011 05:15 GMT
#95
it seems like the BW pros don't have a huge edge due to the fact playing the game and doing simple macro things is so much easier, I think flash, jaedong, bisu etc..... will do great if they switch but won't have a huge edge
I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum and I'm all out of... ah forget it
Aequos
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada606 Posts
April 30 2011 05:16 GMT
#96
Flash is seriously a war crime (game crime?) when used in any SC-related game. Like, I think that his mechanics would give him just such a sizable advantage whatever race he played that he'd be fine in SC2.
I first realized Immortals were reincarnated Dragoons when I saw them dancing helplessly behind my Stalkers.
Alzadar
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada5009 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-30 05:20:14
April 30 2011 05:18 GMT
#97
On April 30 2011 13:45 rift wrote:
As there are fewer differentiators of skill in SC2 I can see Flash/Jaedong/Bisu/Stork losing games or even matches to weaker players often. I don't think it's possible to become dominant in the same way considering the nature of the game.

Imagine the following scenario: Flash is invited to TSL4. Lag is not an issue at this point. Could he be upset and knocked out early by a player generally considered worse? I could definitely see it happening, and it wasn't a possibility at WCG for any of them. The differences between players are just too thin.


Don't be ridiculous, Flash knocked out of a tournament early by a no-name player? That would never happen! You're more likely to find a ssak of pianos on the street!
I am the Town Medic.
XiaoJoyce-
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
China2908 Posts
April 30 2011 05:42 GMT
#98
I hope Flash would go SC2 during his peak, not delay so much further...

This is my hope aha. But maybe it won't happen?
Pew! Pew! Chitty Chitty Bang Bang!
dukethegold
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada5645 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-30 05:54:21
April 30 2011 05:45 GMT
#99
Flash's decision making ability in BW is borderline hacking. In SC2, he will overwhelm everything....With the improved mechanics system, I have little doubt Flash can perform the perfect macro and micro that can only be theoretically accomplished by bots.


On April 30 2011 14:42 XiaoJoyce- wrote:
I hope Flash would go SC2 during his peak, not delay so much further...

This is my hope aha. But maybe it won't happen?


Are you sure you want a Flash in peak form to be in SC2?

On April 30 2011 13:48 Whitewing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2011 13:46 dukethegold wrote:
If you are a champion, you need to maintain self-esteem. Of course MC can't admit to others or himself that if Flash/Jaedong/Bisu/Stork switched, the current SC2 lineup would be obliterated within three months.


It wouldn't, it took the current players a hilariously long time to learn and master all the timings as well as they have, and the game keeps shifting. The differences is, Brood War is basically as figured out as it's going to get, so it's just a question of who has the best mechanics and experience/training with it, SC2 is a long way from getting there, and thus is volatile. So... doesn't matter how good you are, nobody is completely dominating the scene. MC is the closest there is, and he got 2-0'd by Polt in the GSL and got knocked to the up and down matches.

Maybe 6 months, maybe not at all.


I disagree about EVERYTHING you just said. Brood War players adapt to constant shifts in metagame on monthly basis. OSL/MSL/PL host their own unique map pool, preventing stagnation of metagame shifts. Transition from BW to SC2 is fairly simple, as Nada once said in his interview. 6 months? Don't even joke. That's an eternity in BW.
Megaliskuu
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5123 Posts
April 30 2011 05:49 GMT
#100
On April 30 2011 14:42 XiaoJoyce- wrote:
I hope Flash would go SC2 during his peak, not delay so much further...

This is my hope aha. But maybe it won't happen?


Wat I remember you always being a big BW fan ;; why u want Flash to switch over hes too good for sc2.
|BW>Everything|Add me on star2 KR server TheMuTaL.675 for practice games :)|NEX clan| https://www.dotabuff.com/players/183104694
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