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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. |
On April 26 2011 16:21 Heavenly wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 16:10 Alpina wrote:On April 26 2011 16:08 OsoVega wrote:On April 26 2011 15:45 Alpina wrote:
Most changes are good, but what's the point in increasing zealot build time?
Also if they decided to make archon massive why not make queen massive. It would make zerg much easier to deal with very strong phoenix/void opening and zergs could move queen around to destroy FFs. Those two things are in no way related. Archons and queens have almost no relation. Saying queens should be massive because archons are is like saying zealots should be able to cloak because banshees can. All you are doing is pointing out that making queens massive would be a buff. No shit but you don't give any reason why queens should be buffed. Also, zealot build time is not increased. If you mean decreased, it is because warpgates come later. Lol then why archons should be buffed? Do you think it's ok to have 5 queens in base to be sure to defend simple 2 void/2 phoenix opening? You think a tech path that leaves you with almost no ground army to defend anything should become worthless? When are people going to stop complaining about what protoss can do? Now four gate is severely nerfed, we just have to make queens massive, remove forcefield, require a twilight council to build stalkers, remove thermal lance upgrade, not allow units to be warped in unless it's within two inches of a nexus, and make colossus splash damage injure your own units for people to stop complaining about protoss.
as extreme as your example suggests, i fear you may be right. people just find anyway possible to conplain or find a flaw in things.
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so exciting, return of shining toss? :D
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On April 26 2011 16:22 dthree wrote:
I foresee 2gate zealot aggression with no gas and expansion being really strong PvZ early game, just like in the beta it will probably force a 1base roach in response and give protoss advantage going into mid-game. I think 33 seconds is too low for zealots.
I foresee it changing absolutely nothing anything unless you're in close spawn locations. In which case PvZ sucks anyway.
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On April 26 2011 16:15 Ziggy Starport wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 15:57 windsupernova wrote:
Ehhh, I actually don't agree. Blizzard should only step in to fix broken things, Its not up to them to make a matchup more playable or watchable. And really, with 9 matchups only 1 was retarded so I don't think it was that bad.
PvP was interesting to me at least, not all matches need to go into super late macro mode to be good. Well to be fair, I think their vision of the game and its future is probably the most valid, despite what anyone else may think. Plus, there are only six match ups, not nine.
Well, I am one of the people who most support Blizzard and their vision of the game, but on this one I don't think PvP was broken. Especially since the Cruncher Naniwa match I saw how PvP can and will go to lategame if the players are somewhat evenly skilled.
Dunno man, I feel that a long game should come from the player stalemating and then them trying to gain more and more advantage over the other instead of forced limitations.
Just my 2 cents
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On April 26 2011 16:08 OsoVega wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 15:45 Alpina wrote:
Most changes are good, but what's the point in increasing zealot build time?
Also if they decided to make archon massive why not make queen massive. It would make zerg much easier to deal with very strong phoenix/void opening and zergs could move queen around to destroy FFs. Those two things are in no way related. Archons and queens have almost no relation. Saying queens should be massive because archons are is like saying zealots should be able to cloak because banshees can. All you are doing is pointing out that making queens massive would be a buff. No shit but you don't give any reason why queens should be buffed. Also, zealot build time is not increased. If you mean decreased, it is because warpgates come later.
Actually Queens being massive was also an idea i played around in my head for a while. It would solve one big problem: The dreaded force-field on the ramp (yes, i know there are already ways to negate the effect of it)
Also, it would allow for strategies where you could use queens offensively in the mid- to lategame to break forcefields together with drop tech: transport queens in the overlord, drop on forcefields, enable overlord creep spread and move the queens around => forcefield problem gone.
Balance differences (summary):
- It would reduce the effect of phoenixes in the early game - not that big of an effect
- They would be more vulnerable to Void Rays due to it's bonus damage against massive (but no more lifting and killing with VoidRay/Phoenix combination) - doesn't hurt protoss that much and gives Zerg a little advantage in the early game
- Marauders don't slow them anymore - negligible, if that matters in a game, something is screwed up anyways
- Early-Game Offensive Forcefields are less scary (can be broken on creep)
- Mid- to Lategame: Makes Drop Tech more interesting since you can use them for queen transport to break FF, so we might see Zerg drops used more often.
- Makes Creep Spread more important for easier Queen usage
I can't think of anything else it would change, so in general it would be a nice change.
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On April 26 2011 16:12 tdt wrote:
Are we ever going to see a patch that makes carriers used and transitional? I think it's ridiculous such a great unit from BW is like NEVER used. Anyway if you guys think about it this pylon radius is all about warping into bases and pylon can't be sniped same reason warp prism has such a small radius so it can be sniped by base defenders. Good changes over all, like em all cept ghosts who are already ridiculous compared to HT.
If you wan to go Carriers, go Carriers. But if you want to actually have a matchup where going Carriers is standard well son.....you better hope for some Terran Mech buffs so TvP Mech will be standard too.
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On April 26 2011 16:23 SONE wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 16:21 Heavenly wrote:On April 26 2011 16:10 Alpina wrote:On April 26 2011 16:08 OsoVega wrote:On April 26 2011 15:45 Alpina wrote:
Most changes are good, but what's the point in increasing zealot build time?
Also if they decided to make archon massive why not make queen massive. It would make zerg much easier to deal with very strong phoenix/void opening and zergs could move queen around to destroy FFs. Those two things are in no way related. Archons and queens have almost no relation. Saying queens should be massive because archons are is like saying zealots should be able to cloak because banshees can. All you are doing is pointing out that making queens massive would be a buff. No shit but you don't give any reason why queens should be buffed. Also, zealot build time is not increased. If you mean decreased, it is because warpgates come later. Lol then why archons should be buffed? Do you think it's ok to have 5 queens in base to be sure to defend simple 2 void/2 phoenix opening? You think a tech path that leaves you with almost no ground army to defend anything should become worthless? When are people going to stop complaining about what protoss can do? Now four gate is severely nerfed, we just have to make queens massive, remove forcefield, require a twilight council to build stalkers, remove thermal lance upgrade, not allow units to be warped in unless it's within two inches of a nexus, and make colossus splash damage injure your own units for people to stop complaining about protoss. as extreme as your example suggests, i fear you may be right. people just find anyway possible to conplain or find a flaw in things.
I've literally seen every one of those changes suggested here on teamliquid, except the nexus warp in was more like 10 inches.
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loving the patch changes, but i think that now early 2 gate is gona be so powerful....... ?.?
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2v2 just became even more broken.
Protoss are going to proxy gate every game if they have any sense at all.
Seriously, all Blizzard needs to do to fix 2v2 is improve the map pool. Currently 2v2 maps are smaller than 1v1 maps which is just retarded.
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On April 26 2011 16:27 qui wrote:
2v2 just became even more broken.
Protoss are going to proxy gate every game if they have any sense at all.
Seriously, all Blizzard needs to do to fix 2v2 is improve the map pool. Currently 2v2 maps are smaller than 1v1 maps which is just retarded.
Wait, weren't PvX teams the weakest on 2v2?
And yeah, we need better 2v2 maps
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On April 26 2011 11:20 Jimbo77 wrote:
Pylon power radius has been decreased from 7.5 to 6.5.
. What? ... what, WHAT? What!!
The "warpgate" nerf-things seems nice.
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Somehow I think this will turn PvP into a ZvZ-like rock-paper-scissors, it will just take a lot longer.
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So many false prophets here...
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still curious as to how different the 1 range on pylons is. hopefully ptr updates soon so we can check it oit
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United States944 Posts
On April 26 2011 16:16 Morphs wrote:
Why is everybody so happy about the Archon becoming massive? As far as I can see, it doesn't change anything (except removing FF). I hope someone can clarify this one..
Spore change is cool, gives a bit more defense vs. banshees/void rays.
Helps out with a few things, actually.
One good strat right now to use in PvP is to go chargelot/archon after blink expo with both gases at natural instantly, but it can be nerfed by 2-3 forcefields, which you know. Also for pvp, this will prevent them from being lifted by phoenix gravaton beam. Phoenix/chargelot is a strong build, and can be most effectively dealt with by going archons and blink stalker. Phoenix cost far less investment than archon, and could simply lift them up and take them out of the fight. Rare, but still an occurrence.
The big thing, though, is in the PvT matchup, where concussive shells make archons work against you if you are trying to press forward, and are impossible to retreat with once tagged. They are essentially either a 100/300 or 250/250 unit that can be slowed, while their counterparts in equivalent cost (collosus) do not get slowed. Imagine how silly it would be for an ultralisk (300/200) for about the same value could be slowed by a marauder. It was an inevitable change that needed to happen.
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On April 26 2011 16:28 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 16:27 qui wrote:
2v2 just became even more broken.
Protoss are going to proxy gate every game if they have any sense at all.
Seriously, all Blizzard needs to do to fix 2v2 is improve the map pool. Currently 2v2 maps are smaller than 1v1 maps which is just retarded. Wait, weren't PvX teams the weakest on 2v2? And yeah, we need better 2v2 maps
2v2 is fine except for speedling/hellion. 3v3 with 2 zerg and hellion is the stupidest thing ever.
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There is already almost only protoss winning everywhere, with a bunch of terran trying to go on par with them.
Now, blizzard make a big announcement about how they are gonna fix the 4gate feast in PvP, and in the end they buff PvX proxy gate, making it huge, and they buff archon, even thought I don't understand how it is related in any way to 4gate and PvP.
Priceless move by blizzard.
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On April 26 2011 11:24 Xapti wrote:
ROFL WAFL
Patch 16: Zealot build time increased from 33 to 38.
Patch 17: Zealot build time decreased from 38 to 33.
Patch 1.1.0: Zealot build time increased from 33 to 38.
Patch 1.3.3: Zealot train time decreased from 38 to 33.
WTF M8?
THIS was totally the same i thought aswell :D
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ARCHONS FINALLY! Omg this is so huge for PvP <3<3!
I like all changes right now. The pylon thing is actually pretty big. It makes it very hard to warp up to high ground in PvP and it reduces warp-in area in general ( = less units can fit, not that that will be the biggest deal).
The ghost change is also pretty damn big. I like the fact that they made it less gas intense since mules are in effect and that will increase production facilities by default. Not affording the units with upgrades etc just make things hard to cram out.
Will we see more tank/ghost?
Archons baby... Thanks! <3
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In PvZ I think the proxy 2 gate is going to become much more popular, especially shortly after the release, and is going to require a 9 or 10 drone scout by z in order to make sure they can safely hatch first. We actually might see pool first into hatch become the standard opening for ZvP, because close spawn non-proxy 2 gate is still going to be quite deadly to a 15 hatch opening.
One change i was hoping for was that forcefields last for a shorter time when placed on creep, maybe 1/2 or 2/3 as long. This would not break the PvT early game, but would give zergs a slightly better way to try and engage the late game Protoss deathball, and would help with defending a 4/6 gate forcefield the ramp push.
O well, spore crawler buff is nice at least.
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EPT
