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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong. It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. | ||
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iggyzizzle
United States28 Posts
On April 26 2011 16:44 kuroshiro wrote: Can anyone clear this up for me? -> gateway build time and warpgate cooldown are now equivalent for all gateway units right? (not including warp in time) Warpgate warpin + cooldown = gateway build time | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On April 26 2011 16:38 Devolved wrote: I like everything in this patch except the removal of air stacking. I've never considered this a bug. It's an APM intensive tactic that allows more units to fire at once. How are Vikings supposed to hit and run Collossi, Corruptors or Void Rays with any type of efficiency now? How can Mutas harass small areas picking off stray units with one-shots? If anything, I would consider this a buff for Protoss because they are the least affected by it. Also, now Thors are going to be pretty much useless against Mutas. Tech builds that relied on Thors to defend vs. Muta harass will go out the window, but at the same time the Muta hit and run harass will be less effective because you will have to expose more mutas to a larger area to kill the same thing. Ok, they didnt remove air stacking Im almost sure, they are talking about the alternate way to create a Viking flower, that Sockfolder made a thread about (should be searchable). Pretty sure anyway. Patch is interesting, Im scared of proxy gates tho (VERY, VERY scared, I honestly think they are too good even in the current patch). | ||
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magha
Netherlands427 Posts
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Skrag
United States643 Posts
On April 26 2011 16:42 Heavenly wrote: Once you turn your gates into warp gates you get an extra round of units immediately. If I'm attempting to hold a very early all-in I would want warp-gate tech to kick in as soon as possible so that I have my initial gateway units pop out, then I can turn into warpgate and warp in an additional round immediately afterward. This doesn't strengthen early defense at all if they hit you before your warpgates come up, but I'm not sure if it weakens it. If it does, the 3 roach speedling all in would be incredibly annoying. How early of an all-in, how many gates, and when do the gates get placed?. Give me a rep of a situation where you think your defense will be weakened and I'll do the math, because I'm pretty sure you end up better off in pretty much every situation. And if I prove myself wrong, then so be it. I don't mind eating a little crow now and then. FWIW, I believe there may be some *very small* timing windows where you might end up a unit or two short, but nowhere near the full 40-second window that everybody's claiming. | ||
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Peekaboo
Canada219 Posts
On April 26 2011 16:27 qui wrote: 2v2 just became even more broken. Protoss are going to proxy gate every game if they have any sense at all. Yeh, that's all I'm going to do, just like back when zealots were 33 seconds... two proxy gates on 10 or 12 and try to force a quick gg. Its not even that all-in-ish if both partners do something similar, economic damage is guaranteed or else the opponents do something equally non-economic. And now terrans have depot before barracks and a long bunker build time. Liquidpedia will have to re-list the old build. | ||
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GhostFall
United States830 Posts
Proxy 2gate should be interesting. terran players should be fine, worried for the zerg | ||
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Darkthorn
Romania912 Posts
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
Edit: Wait what? Where's my colossi nerf? | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
 except the last change about air stacking (?) | ||
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khazgore
Norway104 Posts
but the good news i really doubt they are gonna go live with the zealot build time change. if they do i will lose all my credibility in the blizzard balancing team... | ||
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Tofugrinder
Austria899 Posts
On April 26 2011 16:53 GhostFall wrote: 2 gate openings wont be too bad, only because of maps. Proxy 2gate should be interesting. terran players should be fine, worried for the zerg this should be normally fixed with big maps like tel darim, terminus etc. and on the small blizzard (close posi) maps are broken anyway (and nearly all tournaments only use maps with no close posi) so I personally dont think 2gate/proxy2gate will be a problem, IF the maps are good. Or am i totally wrong here? | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
On April 26 2011 16:47 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Ok, they didnt remove air stacking Im almost sure, they are talking about the alternate way to create a Viking flower, that Sockfolder made a thread about (should be searchable). Pretty sure anyway. Patch is interesting, Im scared of proxy gates tho (VERY, VERY scared, I honestly think they are too good even in the current patch). Yeah, you would set patrol and then either hit shift+s or shift+h (stop makes it so they stack up, and if they get attacked it gets knocked off the 'flower' if you do hold then they permanently stay stacked even if attacked) | ||
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SedativeDev
Slovenia316 Posts
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neeb
United States367 Posts
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Fiel
United States587 Posts
On April 26 2011 16:45 AquaBadger wrote: won't archons still be kited due to low range and speed compared to stim bio balls? Ultralisks are easy enough to kite off creep and archons are a little slower then ultras. 2.8 vs 2.95. They will still be kited, but at least they won't be utterly destroyed by marauders. | ||
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Apolo
Portugal1259 Posts
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
toss:did they forget why they neff the 33s zealot in the first place??? back in my bronze days was nightmare to deal with early mass zealot rush, which is actually still kinda difficult to deal with now if you didnt make the right response in time O.o (ofc this is for zerg...) 4gate neff is needed anyway. terran: again i like blizz's logic on making ghost(a tech unit, a CASTER) needs less gas to produce. we all know terran's mins always piling high after 5mins in game, they now have more unit combo to make sitting on 2 bases lol zerg: pathetic, or even funnier? ok we know that by now blizz knows we have 'weak' AA, so they give spore a drastic 6s rooting change (12s ->6s is HUGE). they owe us this since long time ago and this change still cannot change the fact that zerg has extremely weak AA. i dont see all of these changes make it out of ptr (i hope). | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
Don't really understand the point of the ghost change, but whatever. Pylon radius reduced why? Guess I'll have to practice my pylon placement for walling vs Zerg, otherwise whatever. Salvage not free YES THANK YOU. That was absurd. Archons massive means conc shell doesn't lolpwn them anymore right? If so excellent. | ||
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
On April 26 2011 16:42 iggyzizzle wrote: So basically, 4gate is nerfed. This is literally the only 4gate you do in PvP. 6 stalker 1 zealot at 5:40, start pylons on low ground as you push in at 6:00. If you fail to hit this timing, it is much harder for the 4gate to work at all. With the timing pushed back a whole whopping 40 seconds, this basically negates PvP 4gates, or almost any 4gate, completely. That's just a fact; it's not even debatable at all. I am completely surprised that anyone even thinks otherwise. Other match-ups will not be changed nearly as much because 4gate hasn't lately been a huge problem in PvT or PvZ. This pushes back ALL types of 4gates back 40 seconds, no matter how many chrono boosts are used on the WG tech. Seriously, this is such a huge change that it will completely redefine the first 10 or so minutes of PvP completely. 2gate into cyber or 1gate robo will probably become the norm. It will also slightly change openers for other match-ups as well. So what you're saying is mission accomplished? PvP is regarded by many as the worse matchup because of 4Gate (I disagree, but that's because I hate playing ZvZ, but I digress) A patch shows up that nerfs 4gate in PvP but doesn't nerf too badly the 4gate in PvT or PvZ? And you have a problem with this? 4Gate will still be a threat. Zerg's most feared 4Gate is the 3Gate fake into 4Gate. Delayed 5-6 Gate timing pushes is the preferred "gate push" vs Terran--which means 4Gate will still be in the same "strength" as it was pre-patch which is below the 6gate. The only thing fixed is that PvP now needs-gasp-a more varied build order? | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On April 26 2011 17:02 BurningSera wrote: toss:did they forget why they neff the 33s zealot in the first place??? back in my bronze days was nightmare to deal with early mass zealot rush, which is actually still kinda difficult to deal with if you didnt make the right response O.o (ofc this is for zerg...) It wasn't that you couldn't stop the 2gate, you certainly could. It was that it left you stuck on 1base while it hardly hurt the toss. With the bigger maps this should be a much smaller problem. Also roaches are more dangerous once you get them out, could well be able to counter and kill the toss (on the small maps/close positions). Anyway it's on PTR for a reason..to test.. | ||
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