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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. |
On May 04 2011 17:28 TheTenthDoc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 17:04 Faze. wrote:On May 04 2011 16:28 David451 wrote:On May 04 2011 16:23 sadyque wrote:On May 04 2011 15:58 KevinIX wrote:On May 04 2011 15:56 Artisan wrote:
Infestor change looks good. Zerg needs more slow unmicroable units. Idra brought up a good point. The infestor speed change actually makes Infestor micro easier. The infestors naturally stay behind your army now, instead of running forward and becoming vulnerable. Exactly! The speed nerf is actually a buff. How many times have we seen an infestor not get to a location fast enough and how many times have we seen idiot zergs charging with infestors in front? I'm not Zerg but I'm not buying this. It's only a buff to bad control. Agreed, only beginners who put their entire army on 1 control group end up with infestors running where THE PLAYER told his infestors to A-move. It's a nerf, no matter what people say, facts don't care about their opinions. At least it's not a HUGE nerf, zergs will deal with it, we've been through worse. Edit: I just read the thing in the white rectangle at the top. My fate in humanity just had suicidal thoughts. Guess Losira, Ro8 in the GSL, is a beginner? Edit: Also, on the Thor issue, from a design standpoint the fact that you may have to cast an offensive spell on your own units to make them viable kinda bugs me. Just from a counter-intuitive design perspective.
On/off toggle energy bar? 
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why do sentrys build faster than zealots? Makes no sense. Thors with energy is really unnesscary...
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On May 04 2011 17:42 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 17:37 dump wrote:On May 04 2011 17:27 Deadlyfish wrote:
Thors now have energy?
This is the worst change i've ever heard of. Seriously? Nerf mech against protoss? You must be kidding me. Thors are now practically useless against toss.
Were thors a problem for protoss, ever? No.
Now Terran will have to go back to EMPing thors to make them viable at all, which is just plain silly. The only "counter" Terrans had to immortals while going mech was thors with strike cannons. Everything else got completely destroyed. So what did blizzard do? Nerfed thors obviously. Wouldnt want terrans to do anything besides bio, would we now?
How often were terrans going thor anyways? 1/100 games?
If blizzard just wanted to make templars good again they could've just buffed them differently. Make them have warp-in storms again, i dont care, at least then i wasnt forced to go MMM every single TvP.
Could someone give any good reason at all for this change? Maybe blizzard thinks mech was OP in TvP, i dont even know what to think about this :S Well I do see thors used with marines a lot. Maybe even more often than tanks these days. Even as a protoss player myself I feel like tanks deserve a buff. That would be a decent exchange with the thors. Oh, wait, zealots are terrible in SC2, even against tanks. Back to the whiteboard. Again, it really feels like Blizz is inadvertently or not streamlining the entire game. I really don't see much diversity lately. I try to avoid colossus in most of my games, and as a result, I got demoted to plat right after Khaydarin got removed. Terran's going to be even more dependent on MMM and protoss is still stuck on colossus. Yea exactly. I have to ask, were protoss player honestly having trouble with thors? I have never heard of a single complaint about them, ever, in any matchup. Now all of a sudden blizzard nerfs them and protoss players are saying that they were indeed a problem. I dont get it. And yea it just seems blizzard want everyone to do 1 strategy. And btw you cant buff tanks because of the other matchups were tanks are already really strong. Well maybe you could but it would have to avoid buffing tanks vs Z and T 
Maybe thor nerf was more for team games? Probably just an effort to make ht's more viable against terrans though. *dunno*
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On May 04 2011 17:49 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 17:42 Deadlyfish wrote:On May 04 2011 17:37 dump wrote:On May 04 2011 17:27 Deadlyfish wrote:
Thors now have energy?
This is the worst change i've ever heard of. Seriously? Nerf mech against protoss? You must be kidding me. Thors are now practically useless against toss.
Were thors a problem for protoss, ever? No.
Now Terran will have to go back to EMPing thors to make them viable at all, which is just plain silly. The only "counter" Terrans had to immortals while going mech was thors with strike cannons. Everything else got completely destroyed. So what did blizzard do? Nerfed thors obviously. Wouldnt want terrans to do anything besides bio, would we now?
How often were terrans going thor anyways? 1/100 games?
If blizzard just wanted to make templars good again they could've just buffed them differently. Make them have warp-in storms again, i dont care, at least then i wasnt forced to go MMM every single TvP.
Could someone give any good reason at all for this change? Maybe blizzard thinks mech was OP in TvP, i dont even know what to think about this :S Well I do see thors used with marines a lot. Maybe even more often than tanks these days. Even as a protoss player myself I feel like tanks deserve a buff. That would be a decent exchange with the thors. Oh, wait, zealots are terrible in SC2, even against tanks. Back to the whiteboard. Again, it really feels like Blizz is inadvertently or not streamlining the entire game. I really don't see much diversity lately. I try to avoid colossus in most of my games, and as a result, I got demoted to plat right after Khaydarin got removed. Terran's going to be even more dependent on MMM and protoss is still stuck on colossus. Yea exactly. I have to ask, were protoss player honestly having trouble with thors? I have never heard of a single complaint about them, ever, in any matchup. Now all of a sudden blizzard nerfs them and protoss players are saying that they were indeed a problem. I dont get it. And yea it just seems blizzard want everyone to do 1 strategy. And btw you cant buff tanks because of the other matchups were tanks are already really strong. Well maybe you could but it would have to avoid buffing tanks vs Z and T Maybe thor nerf was more for team games? Probably just an effort to make ht's more viable against terrans though. *dunno*
I totally agree that HT's should be better against terran, but why buff them against an underused strat? This isnt actually buffing HT's. It will just make terran not use thors. If they want to buff HT's then give the amulet back, or reduce the energy needed for storm/feedback, whatever. Make them better against bio, not mech 
I wonder what the thought process was...
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Dont like the energy getting slapped back on thors.
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On May 04 2011 17:49 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 17:42 Deadlyfish wrote:On May 04 2011 17:37 dump wrote:On May 04 2011 17:27 Deadlyfish wrote:
Thors now have energy?
This is the worst change i've ever heard of. Seriously? Nerf mech against protoss? You must be kidding me. Thors are now practically useless against toss.
Were thors a problem for protoss, ever? No.
Now Terran will have to go back to EMPing thors to make them viable at all, which is just plain silly. The only "counter" Terrans had to immortals while going mech was thors with strike cannons. Everything else got completely destroyed. So what did blizzard do? Nerfed thors obviously. Wouldnt want terrans to do anything besides bio, would we now?
How often were terrans going thor anyways? 1/100 games?
If blizzard just wanted to make templars good again they could've just buffed them differently. Make them have warp-in storms again, i dont care, at least then i wasnt forced to go MMM every single TvP.
Could someone give any good reason at all for this change? Maybe blizzard thinks mech was OP in TvP, i dont even know what to think about this :S Well I do see thors used with marines a lot. Maybe even more often than tanks these days. Even as a protoss player myself I feel like tanks deserve a buff. That would be a decent exchange with the thors. Oh, wait, zealots are terrible in SC2, even against tanks. Back to the whiteboard. Again, it really feels like Blizz is inadvertently or not streamlining the entire game. I really don't see much diversity lately. I try to avoid colossus in most of my games, and as a result, I got demoted to plat right after Khaydarin got removed. Terran's going to be even more dependent on MMM and protoss is still stuck on colossus. Yea exactly. I have to ask, were protoss player honestly having trouble with thors? I have never heard of a single complaint about them, ever, in any matchup. Now all of a sudden blizzard nerfs them and protoss players are saying that they were indeed a problem. I dont get it. And yea it just seems blizzard want everyone to do 1 strategy. And btw you cant buff tanks because of the other matchups were tanks are already really strong. Well maybe you could but it would have to avoid buffing tanks vs Z and T Maybe thor nerf was more for team games? Probably just an effort to make ht's more viable against terrans though. *dunno*
Don't think it's the right way to make templar more useful.
Even against MMM, colossus stalker is still a better option than templar at all levels of play.Making templar more useful against things like mech just doesn't solve any meaningful problems.
It's just like the 25 mineral bunker salvage nerf. It looks better on the surface, but it's really not changing the situation at all.
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On May 04 2011 16:34 mahnini wrote:it's pretty sad when people consider a movespeed decrease a buff because they keep everything on one key
what is the downside to speed decrease.
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Ohh my... Thors are already incredibly gimmicky in TvP, where toss wins aslong as he engages at a good spot. I really think this change is a huge mistake, since for the most part it just empathizes once again that terran must go bio TvP(ruining even a lot of banshee strats, since many revolve around getting their hp meat from the thors :/) :/
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Everyone needs to stop and think for one second about how fucking stupid they sound when they presume that top zerg players haven't figured out to put their infestors in a separate control group. Infestors don't have an attack and there's no way to put them at an ideal distance like a moving ghosts nor do they have a giant deathball to hide behind with a small size that makes them almost impossible to focus fire.
On the contrary, they're fucking huge which causes them to push each other around and often closer to the enemy than you want them to be, meanwhile if you move them as a single group their size combined with the clumping means that as the front infestors get in range the back ones aren't and when the back ones are, the front infestors are frenching zealots. This is compounded by the fact that you need to move command them into range in order to land fungals precisely on moving targets without a delay which there is no clean or accurate way to do when you get past 4 - 5 infestors.
This is why Idra and Machine two top level pros who know a fuckton more than you guys consider it a buff, because there is no clean method of microing infestors anything like ghosts or templar have that is afforded by the interface and a slower movement speed allows them to actually be more precise with them.
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On May 04 2011 17:58 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 16:34 mahnini wrote:it's pretty sad when people consider a movespeed decrease a buff because they keep everything on one key what is the downside to speed decrease.
Exactly. The infestor is still incredibly mobile. Its like when zerg whines about Hydras being slow off creep when they are just as fast as marines are.
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It seems waaaay to soon to start nerfing the Thor, Thorzain's build hasn't been explored nearly enough
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So now Thors will be feedbacked in TvP AND when you go mech in TvZ two fungals will kill 20marines + thors getting NP'ed and strikecannon the other ones lol.
Doesnt this mean mech will be less strong in tvz unless you strike cannon your own units before you move out?
Bad design that you actually have to use your strikecannon on your own units to be safe lol.
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The thor thing puts in an ineteresting mechanic to mech TvP, since people are more likely to go ghosts now, it'll be an EMP vs Feedback battle again to save your thors, while making some thor timing pushes worse.
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On May 04 2011 18:04 Kanaz wrote:
So now Thors will be feedbacked in TvP AND when you go mech in TvZ two fungals will kill 20marines + thors getting NP'ed and strikecannon the other ones lol.
Doesnt this mean mech will be less strong in tvz unless you strike cannon your own units before you move out?
Bad design that you actually have to use your strikecannon on your own units to be safe lol.
Not bad design, it creates an option to invest in templars to handle thors just like it is with battlecruisers.
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On May 04 2011 17:59 Ziggitz wrote:
Everyone needs to stop and think for one second about how fucking stupid they sound when they presume that top zerg players haven't figured out to put their infestors in a separate control group. Infestors don't have an attack and there's no way to put them at an ideal distance like a moving ghosts nor do they have a giant deathball to hide behind with a small size that makes them almost impossible to focus fire.
On the contrary, they're fucking huge which causes them to push each other around and often closer to the enemy than you want them to be, meanwhile if you move them as a single group their size combined with the clumping means that as the front infestors get in range the back ones aren't and when the back ones are, the front infestors are frenching zealots. This is compounded by the fact that you need to move command them into range in order to land fungals precisely on moving targets without a delay which there is no clean or accurate way to do when you get past 4 - 5 infestors.
This is why Idra and Machine two top level pros who know a fuckton more than you guys consider it a buff, because there is no clean method of microing infestors anything like ghosts or templar have that is afforded by the interface and a slower movement speed allows them to actually be more precise with them.
No one is presuming anything. There's visual proof right in the LosirA vs sC vod that he had his infestors in the same control group as his army, and that's what people are talking about.
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i wonder how silly dt fe into archon push will be in pvz
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On May 04 2011 18:09 doomed wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 18:04 Kanaz wrote:
So now Thors will be feedbacked in TvP AND when you go mech in TvZ two fungals will kill 20marines + thors getting NP'ed and strikecannon the other ones lol.
Doesnt this mean mech will be less strong in tvz unless you strike cannon your own units before you move out?
Bad design that you actually have to use your strikecannon on your own units to be safe lol. Not bad design, it creates an option to invest in templars to handle thors just like it is with battlecruisers.
Notice that too many options to counter a unit can also make the unit worthless, i.e never seeing BCs in TvP just because of Templars.
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On May 04 2011 17:42 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 17:37 dump wrote:On May 04 2011 17:27 Deadlyfish wrote:
Thors now have energy?
This is the worst change i've ever heard of. Seriously? Nerf mech against protoss? You must be kidding me. Thors are now practically useless against toss.
Were thors a problem for protoss, ever? No.
Now Terran will have to go back to EMPing thors to make them viable at all, which is just plain silly. The only "counter" Terrans had to immortals while going mech was thors with strike cannons. Everything else got completely destroyed. So what did blizzard do? Nerfed thors obviously. Wouldnt want terrans to do anything besides bio, would we now?
How often were terrans going thor anyways? 1/100 games?
If blizzard just wanted to make templars good again they could've just buffed them differently. Make them have warp-in storms again, i dont care, at least then i wasnt forced to go MMM every single TvP.
Could someone give any good reason at all for this change? Maybe blizzard thinks mech was OP in TvP, i dont even know what to think about this :S Well I do see thors used with marines a lot. Maybe even more often than tanks these days. Even as a protoss player myself I feel like tanks deserve a buff. That would be a decent exchange with the thors. Oh, wait, zealots are terrible in SC2, even against tanks. Back to the whiteboard. Again, it really feels like Blizz is inadvertently or not streamlining the entire game. I really don't see much diversity lately. I try to avoid colossus in most of my games, and as a result, I got demoted to plat right after Khaydarin got removed. Terran's going to be even more dependent on MMM and protoss is still stuck on colossus. Yea exactly. I have to ask, were protoss player honestly having trouble with thors? I have never heard of a single complaint about them, ever, in any matchup. Now all of a sudden blizzard nerfs them and protoss players are saying that they were indeed a problem. I dont get it. And yea it just seems blizzard want everyone to do 1 strategy. And btw you cant buff tanks because of the other matchups were tanks are already really strong. Well maybe you could but it would have to avoid buffing tanks vs Z and T
I don't know what league you guys have been playing in, but in mid masters, Thors are the standard response to heavy gateway unit style. Blizzard is doing its best to steer us away from collossus centric play and since amulet nerf, HTs needed to find a use in PvT against mech.
I for one was having HUGE problems against thor centric builds. If terran manages to drag the game to the late game, 3-3 thors are just impossible to kill cost efficiently and you have to rely on stupid harassment techniques and base trading scenarios that protoss was clearly not designed for....
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On May 04 2011 18:06 Dalavita wrote:
The thor thing puts in an ineteresting mechanic to mech TvP, since people are more likely to go ghosts now, it'll be an EMP vs Feedback battle again to save your thors, while making some thor timing pushes worse.
That really, really isn't interesting to me. That's Counter-Strike, not Starcraft.
By the way, ghosts can cloak, snipe has longer range, and templars are still slower than Asian facial hair growth.
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so ah, i guess i'd better stop practicing mech in TvP huh?
juuuuust great.
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EPT
