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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. |
On April 26 2011 11:53 Dommk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 11:51 Sanctimonius wrote:On April 26 2011 11:45 Cloud9157 wrote:On April 26 2011 11:37 windsupernova wrote:
Hmmm, I don't think I like the warpgate change too much. 4Gate was never an issue and I really think that the pylon radius change will help on PvP.
One thing I hate is that Blizzard is just nerfing and nerfing early game. They might as well make a nr 20 mins rule now. Are you kidding me? 4 gate was a huge issue. PvP was a disgraceful matchup that revolved around 4 gate. A proper 4 gate would take down everything pretty much. A few things could stop it (3 gate robo with near-perfect control of units). PvP basically became 4 gate vs 4 gate. It completely discouraged a mid game PvP, not even mentioning a late game PvP. Idk about you or other Protoss, but I became fed up with most of my matches ending within 10 minutes. It was basically the reason I quit playing toss. Just so bloody boring and if you didn't like 4gate you had to pull off a much more difficult strat to deal with it, and if it didn't come (in, like, 3 games out of ten PvP if you were lucky) then you were behind. 4Gate dominated the match up for a reason and made it the most boring mirror by a long way. Anything to make it slightly less viable and open up more plays is a good thing for the community and for esports - who wants every PvP to be about who does the better 4gate? Uh, you act like nothing happens past the 4gate. If you both 4gate or manage to hold it off, then you both continue on with the game, no one is dumb enough to keep trying anymore
You don't see this as a problem? Imagine if every single zerg game where both players HAVE to do an 11 overpool simply because it's so strong, or Terrans who always HAVE to do 2rax pressure or risk being destroyed.
No other tactic dominates matchups like 4gate, and it makes PvP boring if the first ten minutes are always the same - both players do ever so slight and subtle variations of the same build, and if one does it badly they lose straight away. On the off chance they both execute perfectly, then we can have a macro game....
Maybe you enjoy that. That majority of people don't seem to.
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The ghost buff is so fucking random. What made them think ghosts needed to be cheaper?
The slavage nerf is about fucking time. Free return was just retarded.
I am not a fan of how they are trying to "fix" pvp. These changes are not worth it at all. I would prefer them to leave that mu alone if this is their idea of a fix. 4gate isnt so bad because both players do it, then the game can go into the mid game, where it gets interesting.
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Oh my god ghost with less gas. I AM IN LOVE.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
TWO GATE RETURNS HAHA JOKES ON YOU ZERG
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but i feel like protoss are going to be really weak to all in timings around the 5-6 minute mark
You "lose" 15 or more seconds building units right now that you will gain with the next patch that you probably won't notice any difference at all when defending.
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On April 26 2011 11:41 Kvz wrote:
this sucks lol. they nerfed zealot build time because 2gate openers were too strong and 2gate proxys were too strong even when scouted.
IIRC this was because it was strong in lower leagues.
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On April 26 2011 11:55 Severian wrote:
Am I wrong in thinking that Warpgates will still be faster than Gateways, as they're currently 10 seconds faster and this patch only reduces the Gateway unit build times by 5 seconds?
Yes. However, it won't be quite as advantageous, and Gateways can actually be better than Warp Gates if you do not produce from the Warp Gates within 5 seconds of the cooldown being available (which is significantly shorter than the previous 10-second grace period).
Not to mention that switching to Warp Gates means you need to produce at least 2 cycles exactly on time in order to match the production you otherwise could have had with Gateways (due to the 10 second morph period). However, Warp Gates still have the "inverted" cycle-times (or the "free cycle", as some refer to it), meaning it could be a strategic benefit to switch for a specific timing.
In general, if you're going to be sitting back and macroing and have Gateways spaced reasonably throughout your base, then keep them as Gateways. Having a couple Warp Gates for emergencies and immediate back up is recommended :D
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I'm excited for the return of 2-gate. Does anyone remember the timing that a non proxy 2-gate starts to really threaten at your door?
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On April 26 2011 11:43 orotoss wrote:
Why is everyone so excited about massive archons? You do realize that they can still be slowed by concussive shells and held in place by fungal right? Ultralisks are the only unit with immunity to ensare abilities.
So all the archon change means is that they will crush forcefields and can't be picked up by phoenix. If anything, its a nerf since they will accidentally crush the protoss players own forcefields.
I think this was more of a lore-wise change. Archons are so freaking big that they may as well be considered massive.
EDIT: Wow I guess they can't be slowed by concussive shells anymore. Awesome change!
not only will they be immune to concussive, but they can smash FFs 
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Archons being massive is so incredibly good, it has been a long time coming. Archons now take their rightful place as destroyers of bio instead of being able to be kited to death by a single marauder.
pylon radius change is pretty good, now having 3 stalkers on high ground will completely deny 2 pylons most of the time with decent force fields.
Messing around with timings could potentially be pretty messy for a number of weeks. I'm not quite a fan of ghosts costing 200/100, although for a bio build, the gas really doesn't go to anything if doing an early pre-stim ghost timing.
No patch is complete without bunker changes, and I fully support this. Now terran has to view bunkers as an investment instead of throwing 3 down and both teching and expoing behind it.
Spore crawler change is pretty good. Repositioning spores when multiple air units are around is no longer insta gg for the spore crawler.
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Confused as to why only spores root faster, I wish spines didn't take ages to root =(
otherwise, nice changes over all imo.
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The pylon range thing seems a bit silly? I don't get that one. Same with the stacking of flying units. I like the other changes, would've liked to have seen something addressing Colossi overuse and Carrier underuse though
The changes to Toss will serious fuck with the early game in PvX, hopefully for the better...PvP has the most to gain for sure, whereas PvZ risks becoming rushcraft...we'll see
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i logged in but the ptr changes have not taken affect yet
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Confused as to why only spores root faster, I wish spines didn't take ages to root =(
otherwise, nice changes over all imo.
Detection I think. A little too late for those Banshee opennings that people stopped doing months ago.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50238 Posts
On April 26 2011 12:03 iNcontroL wrote:
TWO GATE RETURNS HAHA JOKES ON YOU ZERG
yay now you got something to talk about in the state of the game.
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Dt/Archon push pvp anyone? All massive units can trample forcefields, right? I wonder how long it takes to get an archon vs how long it takes to get a colossus...
Really excited about this patch, all the changes seem good and reasonable. 2 base 6 gate in pvt pvz is just a stronger but harder to execute 4-gate anyway, I won't be sad to see 4-gate pushes become weaker in all matchups.
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Finally archons massive :D, looks like they want to help the pvp match up after all with that and the warpgate research time change
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On April 26 2011 12:03 iNcontroL wrote:
TWO GATE RETURNS HAHA JOKES ON YOU ZERG
yea this is going to suck
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you guys do know some of these changes may not stick? It is a PTR.
Other than that, good stuff. My early game Zerg got a huge buff unintentionally. good stuff =D
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On April 26 2011 12:03 iNcontroL wrote:
TWO GATE RETURNS HAHA JOKES ON YOU ZERG
no problem, SPORE crawler will crush everything.
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EPT
