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On April 24 2011 03:52 itsbread wrote:Show nested quote +Thats much harder then just pressing A and go with Banelings or slowly sieging forward ._. well obviously we don't understand both our races as well, but thats fine. How do you think that friendly fire would change this style?
It wouldn't.
The "problem" is that the Colossus attacks AoE is left and right and not in circle area (like siegetank/fungal/storm/banelings/...). When there are zerglings coming from behind they're still lined up.
Against Terran its basically the same.
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On April 24 2011 03:44 Binabik wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 03:33 itsbread wrote:
Now every terran and zerg can tell you that they have lost games sololy to one poor move in a battle. Siege tanks caught off guard out of siege mode, banelings that aren't micro'd as well, etc etc. How many protoss players can say that they lost a crucial battle because they walked their colossus into the other players army by accident? It seems to me, that it is pretty hard to get colossus into a bad spot compared to the other AoE damaging units.
Wth? Colossus-Micro is insanely hard when you're facing an equal opponent: You have to decide whether you are going to try to protect the Colossi because he hasn't enough Vikings/Corrupter or if you're going to try to kill the ground army (= sacrificing the Colossi) After you have decided (which is really really hard) there are 2 possibilities: 1. Save the Colossi: You have to forcefield the rest of the army, focus fire the Corrupters and the Vikings and tell your Colossi to go back. Thats much harder then just pressing A and go with Banelings or slowly sieging forward ._. 2. Kill the ground army: Prevent the army from escaping (forcefield), move everything towards it and tell your Stalkers to focus fire ground units because otherwise they'll kill the vikings/corrupters (which doesn't help you in the slightest) In PvP you have to hit and run with them like a crazy person because everyone is trying to focus fire them. When a Colossus is in Immortal range you are already screwed. But again, in PvP it's more often the case that one player goes for blink and the other one for Immortal. At least on smaller maps.. You seriously over exaggerate colossi micro so much its actually hilarious reading your post, yes colossi are not complete A move like people make them out to be but you need a reality check.
You cannot compare colossi to a setting up a tank line correctly, or on the flip side trying to engage one, and the fact that you blow both of those scenarios off as easy is pretty much a tell that you have not done either of said things.
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I meant to say that it is much less micro intensive. You just (un)siege with a hotkey. Of course it is more a tactical problem (you have to know when you're going to be engaged and how much time you have before you have to attack the natural/whatever).
And I'm sorry about the banelings but even the best zerg players just press A and focus on their Speedlings.
It's the same with flanking, that's not a true micro problem. You just have to make some preparation before engaging.
Protoss is the micro race, it has the most important fighting-abilities (forcefield, blink) and you need at least 2 army hotkeys (or 3 if you are really good and very keen on focus firing with stalkers).
edit:
Zerg is the macro race and Terran is the multitasking+most tactical race. Protoss isn't harder to play it's just harder to micro efficiently.
edit2:
Of course modern PvZ styles are really multitasking intensive (mondragon/idra)
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On April 24 2011 03:38 okaygo wrote:
You could make carriers.
Noway carriers builds are not viable in the current state of the game( I havent played SC for 4weeks or something due to being in the army dunno if there are some cool builds atm), sure there are some builds, but they are so fragile to alot of timing attacks, dts etc. The carrier itself is a okay unit, but the time and money it costs to get them is insane to get off say, 2base and for a third base you usually want a good ground army so you can actually secure it, also you need either Robo or Hallucination for scouting, preferably Robo so you can actually get Observers for DT's, banshees with cloak, burrowed roaches etc, this "big" ground army you need will further delay your carrier tech you also want storm or some sort of splash, collosus at this point is not viable since it simply costs way too much, I had alot of success vs my 3.6k masters friend couple of months ago (keep in mind the HT's still had amulet, that far back) with carriers, I went for a Stalker, Carrier, HT's, Zealot combo, keep in my this was off 4++ bases :O and the Carriers were often proxied at some silly location so the carriers would catch him off guard
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On April 24 2011 04:03 uSnAmplified wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 03:44 Binabik wrote:On April 24 2011 03:33 itsbread wrote:
Now every terran and zerg can tell you that they have lost games sololy to one poor move in a battle. Siege tanks caught off guard out of siege mode, banelings that aren't micro'd as well, etc etc. How many protoss players can say that they lost a crucial battle because they walked their colossus into the other players army by accident? It seems to me, that it is pretty hard to get colossus into a bad spot compared to the other AoE damaging units.
Wth? Colossus-Micro is insanely hard when you're facing an equal opponent: You have to decide whether you are going to try to protect the Colossi because he hasn't enough Vikings/Corrupter or if you're going to try to kill the ground army (= sacrificing the Colossi) After you have decided (which is really really hard) there are 2 possibilities: 1. Save the Colossi: You have to forcefield the rest of the army, focus fire the Corrupters and the Vikings and tell your Colossi to go back. Thats much harder then just pressing A and go with Banelings or slowly sieging forward ._. 2. Kill the ground army: Prevent the army from escaping (forcefield), move everything towards it and tell your Stalkers to focus fire ground units because otherwise they'll kill the vikings/corrupters (which doesn't help you in the slightest) In PvP you have to hit and run with them like a crazy person because everyone is trying to focus fire them. When a Colossus is in Immortal range you are already screwed. But again, in PvP it's more often the case that one player goes for blink and the other one for Immortal. At least on smaller maps.. You seriously over exaggerate colossi micro so much its actually hilarious reading your post, yes colossi are not complete A move like people make them out to be but you need a reality check. You cannot compare colossi to a setting up a tank line correctly, or on the flip side trying to engage one, and the fact that you blow both of those scenarios off as easy is pretty much a tell that you have not done either of said things.
You also make it sound like setting up a tank line is very difficult. Both of you are trying to glorify units that use relatively little micro. What needs micro in a protoss army is putting zealots in front of other units, force fielding in the correct locations, and prioritizing units over others. The same can be said for the terran army, once you siege up tanks, there is no need for micro for the tanks other than maybe focus firing colossus which is not difficult at all.
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nerfings it's hp would be good - people would really need to start working on collosus positioning and micro - would make it less of a 1-A. At the moment the deathball is too strong and can't even really be chipped away at, like you can with any other strat (leading it to be the endgame threshold composition). Nerfing the movespeed is just staking out and hoping he moves is army ahead of his collosi, which doesn't fix anything.
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Make it do friendly splash damage. That might change things a bit
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On April 24 2011 04:20 salazar001 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 04:03 uSnAmplified wrote:On April 24 2011 03:44 Binabik wrote:On April 24 2011 03:33 itsbread wrote:
Now every terran and zerg can tell you that they have lost games sololy to one poor move in a battle. Siege tanks caught off guard out of siege mode, banelings that aren't micro'd as well, etc etc. How many protoss players can say that they lost a crucial battle because they walked their colossus into the other players army by accident? It seems to me, that it is pretty hard to get colossus into a bad spot compared to the other AoE damaging units.
Wth? Colossus-Micro is insanely hard when you're facing an equal opponent: You have to decide whether you are going to try to protect the Colossi because he hasn't enough Vikings/Corrupter or if you're going to try to kill the ground army (= sacrificing the Colossi) After you have decided (which is really really hard) there are 2 possibilities: 1. Save the Colossi: You have to forcefield the rest of the army, focus fire the Corrupters and the Vikings and tell your Colossi to go back. Thats much harder then just pressing A and go with Banelings or slowly sieging forward ._. 2. Kill the ground army: Prevent the army from escaping (forcefield), move everything towards it and tell your Stalkers to focus fire ground units because otherwise they'll kill the vikings/corrupters (which doesn't help you in the slightest) In PvP you have to hit and run with them like a crazy person because everyone is trying to focus fire them. When a Colossus is in Immortal range you are already screwed. But again, in PvP it's more often the case that one player goes for blink and the other one for Immortal. At least on smaller maps.. You seriously over exaggerate colossi micro so much its actually hilarious reading your post, yes colossi are not complete A move like people make them out to be but you need a reality check. You cannot compare colossi to a setting up a tank line correctly, or on the flip side trying to engage one, and the fact that you blow both of those scenarios off as easy is pretty much a tell that you have not done either of said things. You also make it sound like setting up a tank line is very difficult. Both of you are trying to glorify units that use relatively little micro. What needs micro in a protoss army is putting zealots in front of other units, force fielding in the correct locations, and prioritizing units over others. The same can be said for the terran army, once you siege up tanks, there is no need for micro for the tanks other than maybe focus firing colossus which is not difficult at all. Except when i move my colossi at the wrong time a few might get sniped, when i siege/unsiege at the wrong time i lose my entire army. Im not glorifying anything, some unit compositions and matchups are much more punishing when you make a mistake then others and TvZ is a perfect example, either side can lose everything off a bad move.
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On April 24 2011 04:39 uSnAmplified wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 04:20 salazar001 wrote:On April 24 2011 04:03 uSnAmplified wrote:On April 24 2011 03:44 Binabik wrote:On April 24 2011 03:33 itsbread wrote:
Now every terran and zerg can tell you that they have lost games sololy to one poor move in a battle. Siege tanks caught off guard out of siege mode, banelings that aren't micro'd as well, etc etc. How many protoss players can say that they lost a crucial battle because they walked their colossus into the other players army by accident? It seems to me, that it is pretty hard to get colossus into a bad spot compared to the other AoE damaging units.
Wth? Colossus-Micro is insanely hard when you're facing an equal opponent: You have to decide whether you are going to try to protect the Colossi because he hasn't enough Vikings/Corrupter or if you're going to try to kill the ground army (= sacrificing the Colossi) After you have decided (which is really really hard) there are 2 possibilities: 1. Save the Colossi: You have to forcefield the rest of the army, focus fire the Corrupters and the Vikings and tell your Colossi to go back. Thats much harder then just pressing A and go with Banelings or slowly sieging forward ._. 2. Kill the ground army: Prevent the army from escaping (forcefield), move everything towards it and tell your Stalkers to focus fire ground units because otherwise they'll kill the vikings/corrupters (which doesn't help you in the slightest) In PvP you have to hit and run with them like a crazy person because everyone is trying to focus fire them. When a Colossus is in Immortal range you are already screwed. But again, in PvP it's more often the case that one player goes for blink and the other one for Immortal. At least on smaller maps.. You seriously over exaggerate colossi micro so much its actually hilarious reading your post, yes colossi are not complete A move like people make them out to be but you need a reality check. You cannot compare colossi to a setting up a tank line correctly, or on the flip side trying to engage one, and the fact that you blow both of those scenarios off as easy is pretty much a tell that you have not done either of said things. You also make it sound like setting up a tank line is very difficult. Both of you are trying to glorify units that use relatively little micro. What needs micro in a protoss army is putting zealots in front of other units, force fielding in the correct locations, and prioritizing units over others. The same can be said for the terran army, once you siege up tanks, there is no need for micro for the tanks other than maybe focus firing colossus which is not difficult at all. Except when i move my colossi at the wrong time a few might get sniped, when i siege/unsiege at the wrong time i lose my entire army. Im not glorifying anything, some unit compositions and matchups are much more punishing when you make a mistake then others and TvZ is a perfect example, either side can lose everything off a bad move.
You make a point, but that has nothing to do with micro, but with decision making, positioning, and luck.
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like one of you guys said the units is kind of badly designed. I think it has really cool abilities though. Like the fact that it can use cliffs without entering an animation like the reaper. I think the cliffing ability would need to be used more as a strategic thing instead of just being there. So i think to have to use the cliffs as a positioning advantage, they would need to reduce the range of the upgrade.I think 9 just allows you to blast stuff out of range of everything but, i still think it needs to outrange the marauder a little bit in order to have it be effective in pvt.So my idea to make it fair maybe the range upgrade should be reduced to 8 or 7, something around that. It would make it important to use cliffs and would still be able to kill a marauder ball i think.
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In my opinion, the Colossus suffers from bad unit design. (The had a cool model and wanted it to be strong)
The Colossus is basically an uber Lurker with auto-flanking and high mobility.
I think that the main problem with the colossus lies with its horizontal splash. It is just way too effective as it will almost always hit max units and deal way too much damage.
Therefore there needs to be a change in how the unit deals damage. I think the best way to do this, is to turn the 2 attacks of the colossus into 4 attacks dealing 7(+1) damage each in combitantion with lowering it's range with thermal lance to 8 and its movement by ~15-20%
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On April 23 2011 01:44 AbstractVoid wrote:
I really don't understand why everyone has to make a thread about this... I appreciate your analysis, but I don't really see colossus as a problem in any match up right now. Zerg and Terran have easily accessible ways to deal with a colossus such as vikings and corruptors(and to address your problem of useless corruptors...broodlords) the problem that exists is that if you allow the protoss to achieve that critical mass of colossi then the damage is simply too much. Colossi are meant to give you the power the strongest raw power you can get, but the downfall is they are slow, vulnerable and have no spells. Utilizing hit and run with your vikings or corruptors or just simply teching up is pretty easy to deal with it. Too often I see zerg get stuck into the roach/hydra mix without ever giving a thought to infestors and broodlords the units they truly need to combat a protoss deathball. Another problem is also upgrades, if you allow the protoss to get an economic advantage and obtain his upgrades freely without you ever obtaining yours, you will get melted no matter what you do.
TLDR: Players need to focus on how they can improve their play or advance their strategy in a way that can combat colossus and need not rely on changes to the actual game/units.
Colossus is not slow. Colossus aren't vulnerable. Without blink stalkers, vikings may be able to do hit and run tactics but with blink, vikings and corrupters are terrible as hit and run. Essentially you want to sacrifice your air units for the colossus.
It is true teching as zerg will allow you to deal with colossus easily but the problem is teching and staying alive that is the issue.
The way I see it, every race has a siege weapon. Protoss - Colossus, Terran - Siege Tank, Zerg - Broodlord.
Siege tanks and broodlords are extremely slow. Colossus are not. Maybe slowing Colossus movement speed would be an adequate way to nerf them without destroying the match ups.
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On April 24 2011 04:39 uSnAmplified wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 04:20 salazar001 wrote:On April 24 2011 04:03 uSnAmplified wrote:On April 24 2011 03:44 Binabik wrote:On April 24 2011 03:33 itsbread wrote:
Now every terran and zerg can tell you that they have lost games sololy to one poor move in a battle. Siege tanks caught off guard out of siege mode, banelings that aren't micro'd as well, etc etc. How many protoss players can say that they lost a crucial battle because they walked their colossus into the other players army by accident? It seems to me, that it is pretty hard to get colossus into a bad spot compared to the other AoE damaging units.
Wth? Colossus-Micro is insanely hard when you're facing an equal opponent: You have to decide whether you are going to try to protect the Colossi because he hasn't enough Vikings/Corrupter or if you're going to try to kill the ground army (= sacrificing the Colossi) After you have decided (which is really really hard) there are 2 possibilities: 1. Save the Colossi: You have to forcefield the rest of the army, focus fire the Corrupters and the Vikings and tell your Colossi to go back. Thats much harder then just pressing A and go with Banelings or slowly sieging forward ._. 2. Kill the ground army: Prevent the army from escaping (forcefield), move everything towards it and tell your Stalkers to focus fire ground units because otherwise they'll kill the vikings/corrupters (which doesn't help you in the slightest) In PvP you have to hit and run with them like a crazy person because everyone is trying to focus fire them. When a Colossus is in Immortal range you are already screwed. But again, in PvP it's more often the case that one player goes for blink and the other one for Immortal. At least on smaller maps.. You seriously over exaggerate colossi micro so much its actually hilarious reading your post, yes colossi are not complete A move like people make them out to be but you need a reality check. You cannot compare colossi to a setting up a tank line correctly, or on the flip side trying to engage one, and the fact that you blow both of those scenarios off as easy is pretty much a tell that you have not done either of said things. You also make it sound like setting up a tank line is very difficult. Both of you are trying to glorify units that use relatively little micro. What needs micro in a protoss army is putting zealots in front of other units, force fielding in the correct locations, and prioritizing units over others. The same can be said for the terran army, once you siege up tanks, there is no need for micro for the tanks other than maybe focus firing colossus which is not difficult at all. Except when i move my colossi at the wrong time a few might get sniped, when i siege/unsiege at the wrong time i lose my entire army. Im not glorifying anything, some unit compositions and matchups are much more punishing when you make a mistake then others and TvZ is a perfect example, either side can lose everything off a bad move.
If I move my Colossi at the wrong time, a few die - and hence my army dies, as very little else in it can stand up against basic compositions from the other two races. Honestly, the time to punish a Protoss player is as soon as his Colossi die, as nothing else (with the exception of Templar who have been saving energy for a time) can even fight massed Marine/Marauder/Medivac (in Terran's case) or Roach/Hydra (in Zerg's case)/
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On April 24 2011 06:38 Aequos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 04:39 uSnAmplified wrote:On April 24 2011 04:20 salazar001 wrote:On April 24 2011 04:03 uSnAmplified wrote:On April 24 2011 03:44 Binabik wrote:On April 24 2011 03:33 itsbread wrote:
Now every terran and zerg can tell you that they have lost games sololy to one poor move in a battle. Siege tanks caught off guard out of siege mode, banelings that aren't micro'd as well, etc etc. How many protoss players can say that they lost a crucial battle because they walked their colossus into the other players army by accident? It seems to me, that it is pretty hard to get colossus into a bad spot compared to the other AoE damaging units.
Wth? Colossus-Micro is insanely hard when you're facing an equal opponent: You have to decide whether you are going to try to protect the Colossi because he hasn't enough Vikings/Corrupter or if you're going to try to kill the ground army (= sacrificing the Colossi) After you have decided (which is really really hard) there are 2 possibilities: 1. Save the Colossi: You have to forcefield the rest of the army, focus fire the Corrupters and the Vikings and tell your Colossi to go back. Thats much harder then just pressing A and go with Banelings or slowly sieging forward ._. 2. Kill the ground army: Prevent the army from escaping (forcefield), move everything towards it and tell your Stalkers to focus fire ground units because otherwise they'll kill the vikings/corrupters (which doesn't help you in the slightest) In PvP you have to hit and run with them like a crazy person because everyone is trying to focus fire them. When a Colossus is in Immortal range you are already screwed. But again, in PvP it's more often the case that one player goes for blink and the other one for Immortal. At least on smaller maps.. You seriously over exaggerate colossi micro so much its actually hilarious reading your post, yes colossi are not complete A move like people make them out to be but you need a reality check. You cannot compare colossi to a setting up a tank line correctly, or on the flip side trying to engage one, and the fact that you blow both of those scenarios off as easy is pretty much a tell that you have not done either of said things. You also make it sound like setting up a tank line is very difficult. Both of you are trying to glorify units that use relatively little micro. What needs micro in a protoss army is putting zealots in front of other units, force fielding in the correct locations, and prioritizing units over others. The same can be said for the terran army, once you siege up tanks, there is no need for micro for the tanks other than maybe focus firing colossus which is not difficult at all. Except when i move my colossi at the wrong time a few might get sniped, when i siege/unsiege at the wrong time i lose my entire army. Im not glorifying anything, some unit compositions and matchups are much more punishing when you make a mistake then others and TvZ is a perfect example, either side can lose everything off a bad move. If I move my Colossi at the wrong time, a few die - and hence my army dies, as very little else in it can stand up against basic compositions from the other two races. Honestly, the time to punish a Protoss player is as soon as his Colossi die, as nothing else (with the exception of Templar who have been saving energy for a time) can even fight massed Marine/Marauder/Medivac (in Terran's case) or Roach/Hydra (in Zerg's case)/
The Mech army has to be extremely careful and methodical to leapfrog and siege up tanks properly. I have no idea why you're trying to compare colossus/stalker to Mech. Mech is very positional, trying to slowly get to a position where you are unkillable. Colossus stalker you just need to make sure you wait for the colossus and you're done. You have a nice little ball of destruction.
Mech doesn't really form a ball. And the units (Hellion, Tank, and Thor) all move at completely different rates. Hell the Thor is way slower than a Colossus, and Hellions are way faster than Stalkers. I that's not even taking into account Siege.
There really aren't that many Terran players that can actually pull off mech very well right now.
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On April 24 2011 03:44 Binabik wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 03:33 itsbread wrote:
Now every terran and zerg can tell you that they have lost games sololy to one poor move in a battle. Siege tanks caught off guard out of siege mode, banelings that aren't micro'd as well, etc etc. How many protoss players can say that they lost a crucial battle because they walked their colossus into the other players army by accident? It seems to me, that it is pretty hard to get colossus into a bad spot compared to the other AoE damaging units.
Wth? Colossus-Micro is insanely hard when you're facing an equal opponent: You have to decide whether you are going to try to protect the Colossi because he hasn't enough Vikings/Corrupter or if you're going to try to kill the ground army (= sacrificing the Colossi) After you have decided (which is really really hard) there are 2 possibilities: 1. Save the Colossi: You have to forcefield the rest of the army, focus fire the Corrupters and the Vikings and tell your Colossi to go back. Thats much harder then just pressing A and go with Banelings or slowly sieging forward ._. 2. Kill the ground army: Prevent the army from escaping (forcefield), move everything towards it and tell your Stalkers to focus fire ground units because otherwise they'll kill the vikings/corrupters (which doesn't help you in the slightest) In PvP you have to hit and run with them like a crazy person because everyone is trying to focus fire them. When a Colossus is in Immortal range you are already screwed. But again, in PvP it's more often the case that one player goes for blink and the other one for Immortal. At least on smaller maps..
Whoa. I'm glad I finished my drink before reading this post, otherwise I'd be cleaning delicious chocolatey beverage off my laptop at the moment. Collosus are NOT harder to use than siege tanks. Just... no. Yes, they require more micromanagement, although that's only because tanks require no micro at all. I haven't seen a single opponent make any noticable flaw in his collosus micro since I got out of platinum, and I never had any trouble with it while I was a Protoss-playing goldie. Even if it were anywhere near as hard as you're saying, no one was saying that siege tanks require more micro than collosus. They said they require more skill. Micro is not the only type of skill. Siege tanks require a LOT of strategy, positioning and planning. Even Mvp gets caught out of position and loses games because his siege tank control wasn't perfect.
Collosi do not get caught out of position. Collosi, in comparison to other siege units, move up, down and around terrain at Road Runner speed. They have massive health, the number of vikings/corruptors it takes to 1shot a collosus is ridiculous compared to what you need to instakill a tank that gets caught out of position. They're supported by blink stalkers, which are far faster than marines or roaches, so even if a few vikings do find your collosi you can immediately teleport in to save them. Collosi are never spread before battles. You never spread your stalkers around the screen to protect all your collosi, you just 1a around and let the collosus stand in the middle of the blob. I'm not trying to say that Protoss players are bad and skilless and wouldn't be able to do any of that, but what I am saying is that collosi are bad and skilless and never require any of that, and nothing as powerful and game-changing as the collosus should be a 1a unit that requires next to no control or skill to use. It's just plain bad design.
Incidentally, which games involving Protoss are more likely to be recommended in LR threads: collosus 1a (whether Protoss wins or not) or micro-oriented strats involving HT and other units? There's a reason collosus-centric games are never highly recommended. It's because there's no such thing as impressive collosus control. They just 1a. No one has ever said that "wow, MC/Whitera/Alicia/whoever has great collosus micro!", because they don't. Plenty of people nerdgasmed over MKP/Mvp marine splits, or, if you want a Protoss-related example,
+ Show Spoiler +MC's HT play against Thorzain in the TSL
because those are impressive and require skill. There's always a bunch of people who ask in every LR thread "omg why is every protoss win a bad game and every protoss loss recommended, tl is so zerg biased", and that's exactly why. But when a Protoss wins in some skill-intensive way, like the above example, there's a huge flood of "OMG [player] SO IMPOSSIBLY GOOD, BEST GAME EVER SEEN". People who hate on collosi aren't biased against Protoss, they're biased against boring and skilless 1a play.
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On April 24 2011 09:55 Ezekyle wrote:
Collosi do not get caught out of position. Collosi, in comparison to other siege units, move up, down and around terrain at Road Runner speed. They have massive health, the number of vikings/corruptors it takes to 1shot a collosus is ridiculous compared to what you need to instakill a tank that gets caught out of position. They're supported by blink stalkers, which are far faster than marines or roaches, so even if a few vikings do find your collosi you can immediately teleport in to save them. Collosi are never spread before battles. You never spread your stalkers around the screen to protect all your collosi, you just 1a around and let the collosus stand in the middle of the blob. I'm not trying to say that Protoss players are bad and skilless and wouldn't be able to do any of that, but what I am saying is that collosi are bad and skilless and never require any of that, and nothing as powerful and game-changing as the collosus should be a 1a unit that requires next to no control or skill to use. It's just plain bad design.
this remind me of time i proxy 2gate terran tell me zealots easier micro then marine .. just like your storie you have to understand its superior strategie to allow 1a...
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Bumping this, colossus are great but I feel they are much too viable at the moment, they are good in pretty much every matchup against a wide variety of builds, meaning there are very few reasons to not get colossus in a game. I think if the colossus was nerfed and protoss's severly underpowered tier 3 stargate units - the carrier & mothership - were buffed this would add a lot of variety to the P match-ups, and perhaps we could see toss transitioning in the very late-game like terran and zerg.
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I think the problem is that the deathball is so efficient at defending until it gets to critical mass. If this weren't the case, then heavy harass oriented play would probably be the best option for defeating it, but since most protoss sit in their base while they mass up, it harms the efficiency of harass.
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On April 23 2011 02:07 WhiteDog wrote:
I'd say, nerf colossi HP by a lot, up their mobility a bit, replace enhanced thermal lance by something that give them the opportunity to root on the ground, gain much hp and +2 range.
Tweak unit cost.
Wow this sounds awesome. But on the other hand then its siege tank with less range :/
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Anyone considered this? Perhaps it's not that Collosi are THAT good, but rather, that in order to get detection, Protoss NEEDS a robo for observers. Perhaps if observers can be made from nexus after stargate/twilight/robo tech is completed, that would open up options to try out other tech paths. The main issue I see is that once you get your robo for intel/detection, you "might as well" go for collosi since it's the closest tech unit that helps your army become significantly stronger.
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EPT
