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On April 24 2011 01:12 ReachTheSky wrote:
The reason why collosus is so "imba" is because it benefits from forge ground attack upgrades. Why should tier 2/3 units benefit from forge upgrades?. Terran has to build an armory to upgrade their mech. Zerg has their respective buildings/seperate upgrades for their tier tech. Protoss should have seperate attack/armor upgrades for their robotic tech located at the robotics bay. It would put all races on a more even playing field imo. The colossus doesn't need a nerf. The upgrades just need to be equally balanced. Toss have to pay double for defensive upgrades though because shields and armor don't account for full health. If we enact your plan then we would have to combine the shield/armor upgrade to compensate.
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On April 24 2011 01:12 ReachTheSky wrote:
The reason why collosus is so "imba" is because it benefits from forge ground attack upgrades. Why should tier 2/3 units benefit from forge upgrades?. Terran has to build an armory to upgrade their mech. Zerg has their respective buildings/seperate upgrades for their tier tech. Protoss should have seperate attack/armor upgrades for their robotic tech located at the robotics bay. It would put all races on a more even playing field imo. The colossus doesn't need a nerf. The upgrades just need to be equally balanced.
That makes no sense whatsoever. You're comparing protoss upgrades only to terran upgrades when zerg benefits from evolution chamber upgrades. If the zerg upgrades carapace and melee attacks, their broodlords and ultralisks become upgraded too. Stop trying to skew information to your race's favor.
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I may be well off the mark, but my worry is that if you nerf the collosus in the wake of the templar nerf, they really will struggle against masses of cheap units, lacking splash damage and all.
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On April 24 2011 01:21 Fungal Growth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 01:12 ReachTheSky wrote:
The reason why collosus is so "imba" is because it benefits from forge ground attack upgrades. Why should tier 2/3 units benefit from forge upgrades?. Terran has to build an armory to upgrade their mech. Zerg has their respective buildings/seperate upgrades for their tier tech. Protoss should have seperate attack/armor upgrades for their robotic tech located at the robotics bay. It would put all races on a more even playing field imo. The colossus doesn't need a nerf. The upgrades just need to be equally balanced. Toss have to pay double for defensive upgrades though because shields and armor don't account for full health. If we enact your plan then we would have to combine the shield/armor upgrade to compensate.
Why should it be compensated when it would make things balanced? thats the dumbest thing i've ever heard.
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On April 24 2011 01:23 salazar001 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 01:12 ReachTheSky wrote:
The reason why collosus is so "imba" is because it benefits from forge ground attack upgrades. Why should tier 2/3 units benefit from forge upgrades?. Terran has to build an armory to upgrade their mech. Zerg has their respective buildings/seperate upgrades for their tier tech. Protoss should have seperate attack/armor upgrades for their robotic tech located at the robotics bay. It would put all races on a more even playing field imo. The colossus doesn't need a nerf. The upgrades just need to be equally balanced. That makes no sense whatsoever. You're comparing protoss upgrades only to terran upgrades when zerg benefits from evolution chamber upgrades. If the zerg upgrades carapace and melee attacks, their broodlords and ultralisks become upgraded too. Stop trying to skew information to your race's favor.
do you even know what race i play?
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On April 24 2011 01:25 ReachTheSky wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 01:23 salazar001 wrote:On April 24 2011 01:12 ReachTheSky wrote:
The reason why collosus is so "imba" is because it benefits from forge ground attack upgrades. Why should tier 2/3 units benefit from forge upgrades?. Terran has to build an armory to upgrade their mech. Zerg has their respective buildings/seperate upgrades for their tier tech. Protoss should have seperate attack/armor upgrades for their robotic tech located at the robotics bay. It would put all races on a more even playing field imo. The colossus doesn't need a nerf. The upgrades just need to be equally balanced. That makes no sense whatsoever. You're comparing protoss upgrades only to terran upgrades when zerg benefits from evolution chamber upgrades. If the zerg upgrades carapace and melee attacks, their broodlords and ultralisks become upgraded too. Stop trying to skew information to your race's favor. do you even know what race i play?
What race you play doesn't even matter, as you are providing false information and cannot even reply to the relevant information which in this case is "your problem of upgrades". Of course, there has never been a problem of upgrades.
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Looks like battle.net, why isn't this thread closed since OP is just hidden balance QQ? Maybe you guys just play the game and btw if X race would be overpowered, all koreans would play it
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On April 24 2011 01:28 salazar001 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 01:25 ReachTheSky wrote:On April 24 2011 01:23 salazar001 wrote:On April 24 2011 01:12 ReachTheSky wrote:
The reason why collosus is so "imba" is because it benefits from forge ground attack upgrades. Why should tier 2/3 units benefit from forge upgrades?. Terran has to build an armory to upgrade their mech. Zerg has their respective buildings/seperate upgrades for their tier tech. Protoss should have seperate attack/armor upgrades for their robotic tech located at the robotics bay. It would put all races on a more even playing field imo. The colossus doesn't need a nerf. The upgrades just need to be equally balanced. That makes no sense whatsoever. You're comparing protoss upgrades only to terran upgrades when zerg benefits from evolution chamber upgrades. If the zerg upgrades carapace and melee attacks, their broodlords and ultralisks become upgraded too. Stop trying to skew information to your race's favor. do you even know what race i play? What race you play doesn't even matter, as you are providing false information and cannot even reply to the relevant information which in this case is "your problem of upgrades". Of course, there has never been a problem of upgrades.
sigh, bronze leaguers should never participate in balance discussions.
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On April 24 2011 01:30 ReachTheSky wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 01:28 salazar001 wrote:On April 24 2011 01:25 ReachTheSky wrote:On April 24 2011 01:23 salazar001 wrote:On April 24 2011 01:12 ReachTheSky wrote:
The reason why collosus is so "imba" is because it benefits from forge ground attack upgrades. Why should tier 2/3 units benefit from forge upgrades?. Terran has to build an armory to upgrade their mech. Zerg has their respective buildings/seperate upgrades for their tier tech. Protoss should have seperate attack/armor upgrades for their robotic tech located at the robotics bay. It would put all races on a more even playing field imo. The colossus doesn't need a nerf. The upgrades just need to be equally balanced. That makes no sense whatsoever. You're comparing protoss upgrades only to terran upgrades when zerg benefits from evolution chamber upgrades. If the zerg upgrades carapace and melee attacks, their broodlords and ultralisks become upgraded too. Stop trying to skew information to your race's favor. do you even know what race i play? What race you play doesn't even matter, as you are providing false information and cannot even reply to the relevant information which in this case is "your problem of upgrades". Of course, there has never been a problem of upgrades. sigh, bronze leaguers should never participate in balance discussions.
Once again, you can't even fathom to participate in a discussion of what you are trying to propose, and continue to attempt to deride others about information that is not relevant to the topic.
And I quote you, "do you even know what league i'm in"?
By the way, you play terran.
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this thread is all i expected it to be toss defending collo shit and terrans and zerg saying (the truth) that its way t powerfull as it is atm
btw as terran i can say collo dominate pvt aswell so P makes collo in EVERY matchup
i see 2 posibilities 1 remove the range upgrade there fore they are easier to pick off and easier to hit with emp in small armies 2 make the 16 per beam dps a simple 16 for both ( i would even argue 10 but that migth be overkill :p)
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Imo there should be upgrades for robo units which are separate from gateway units. Terran has mech, air, and infantry; Zerg has ground, ranged, and air; and Protoss has air and ground. Doesn't make sense to me.
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Imo there should be upgrades for robo units which are separate from gateway units. Terran has mech, air, and infantry; Zerg has ground, ranged, and air; and Protoss has air and ground. Doesn't make sense to me.
Terran mech is like a complete tree in itself it has the tank good against armored hellion good against light both of which are splash and thor can shoot air. Protoss robotics does not have a unit that can shoot air. and also the forge shield upgrades cost twice as much as the upgrades from the other races actually more than twice as much shield lvl 3 cost 400/400 iirc though I could be wrong because it is so expensive I rarely purchase it.
and as far as colossus dominating PvT you should watch some of the latest GSL protoss has not been doing so hot against T using this "imba" unit
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On April 24 2011 01:32 salazar001 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 01:30 ReachTheSky wrote:On April 24 2011 01:28 salazar001 wrote:On April 24 2011 01:25 ReachTheSky wrote:On April 24 2011 01:23 salazar001 wrote:On April 24 2011 01:12 ReachTheSky wrote:
The reason why collosus is so "imba" is because it benefits from forge ground attack upgrades. Why should tier 2/3 units benefit from forge upgrades?. Terran has to build an armory to upgrade their mech. Zerg has their respective buildings/seperate upgrades for their tier tech. Protoss should have seperate attack/armor upgrades for their robotic tech located at the robotics bay. It would put all races on a more even playing field imo. The colossus doesn't need a nerf. The upgrades just need to be equally balanced. That makes no sense whatsoever. You're comparing protoss upgrades only to terran upgrades when zerg benefits from evolution chamber upgrades. If the zerg upgrades carapace and melee attacks, their broodlords and ultralisks become upgraded too. Stop trying to skew information to your race's favor. do you even know what race i play? What race you play doesn't even matter, as you are providing false information and cannot even reply to the relevant information which in this case is "your problem of upgrades". Of course, there has never been a problem of upgrades. sigh, bronze leaguers should never participate in balance discussions. Once again, you can't even fathom to participate in a discussion of what you are trying to propose, and continue to attempt to deride others about information that is not relevant to the topic. And I quote you, "do you even know what league i'm in"? By the way, you play terran.
i guarantee you that the upgrades will get changed buddy. you will see. till then unless you actually understand AND play at a high level, you should probably refrain from posting as you aren't actually contributing to a solution instead just bickering with people that are taking time to contribute ideas to a solution.
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On April 24 2011 01:44 ReachTheSky wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 01:32 salazar001 wrote:On April 24 2011 01:30 ReachTheSky wrote:On April 24 2011 01:28 salazar001 wrote:On April 24 2011 01:25 ReachTheSky wrote:On April 24 2011 01:23 salazar001 wrote:On April 24 2011 01:12 ReachTheSky wrote:
The reason why collosus is so "imba" is because it benefits from forge ground attack upgrades. Why should tier 2/3 units benefit from forge upgrades?. Terran has to build an armory to upgrade their mech. Zerg has their respective buildings/seperate upgrades for their tier tech. Protoss should have seperate attack/armor upgrades for their robotic tech located at the robotics bay. It would put all races on a more even playing field imo. The colossus doesn't need a nerf. The upgrades just need to be equally balanced. That makes no sense whatsoever. You're comparing protoss upgrades only to terran upgrades when zerg benefits from evolution chamber upgrades. If the zerg upgrades carapace and melee attacks, their broodlords and ultralisks become upgraded too. Stop trying to skew information to your race's favor. do you even know what race i play? What race you play doesn't even matter, as you are providing false information and cannot even reply to the relevant information which in this case is "your problem of upgrades". Of course, there has never been a problem of upgrades. sigh, bronze leaguers should never participate in balance discussions. Once again, you can't even fathom to participate in a discussion of what you are trying to propose, and continue to attempt to deride others about information that is not relevant to the topic. And I quote you, "do you even know what league i'm in"? By the way, you play terran. i guarantee you that the upgrades will get changed buddy. you will see. till then unless you actually understand AND play at a high level, you should probably refrain from posting as you aren't actually contributing to a solution instead just bickering with people that are taking time to contribute ideas to a solution.
And I will guarantee that the upgrades will not get changed. Maybe people like you should become more like the brood war community and actually learn HOW to counter strategies instead of complaining of OP and wanting nerfs after every consecutive patch.
Besides, your whole argument falls apart when you say "you should probably refrain from posting as you aren't actually contributing to a solution instead just bickering with people that are taking time to contribute ideas to a solution.", as I sense some hypocrisy and irony in your sentence.
PS. I might as well quote Socke as well. "People talk too much. They should just play more."
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Like it has been said before, Collosi just forces so much food (more than the collosi itself) so that if you can't transition into mass broodlord right after the engagement you'll never beat those stalkers
One of the hard counters of the Stalker is the Ultralisk/Infestor combination. With voidrays and collosi, it isn't possible. Once those are down however, it's a very potent unit combination if its massed up. The problem, in my opinion with PvZ lategame is that once the air units and collosi have been dealt with through the use of corrupters, your ground army is dead and you much remax. By the time you have units again, protoss has probably killed one or two expansions and stands in the way of you regrouping your army. Zerg has to fight the Stalker ball, with a ball of units of his own, and to stop massive amounts of stalkers you need a lot of units. If you don't have time to mass up, then it's impossible.
That being said, roaches are not very good vs endgame upgraded stalkers with blink. Hydras are very average too, especially off creep.Your best solution is lings, ultralisk, infestor. WIth the state of the game right now, you can forget about massing those units, you don't have time. You barely have time to morph corruptors into broodlords, so making more corruptors and morphing them after is not viable. Lings have quick build time but alone are near to useless vs massive amounts of stalkers. Finally, it's near impossible to mass ultralisk and infestors in time to stop the protoss; you'll lose most of your bases the that production. Sure you could make all the infestor/ultras at the same place, but if they go straight for that place you're fucked.
So I think the problem for PvZ might not be the collosus itself, but the fact that the collosus forces too many corruptors and that there is no powerful transition for zerg that can effectively counter this stalker ball that has been seen oh so often in professional matches
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On April 24 2011 01:47 salazar001 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 01:44 ReachTheSky wrote:On April 24 2011 01:32 salazar001 wrote:On April 24 2011 01:30 ReachTheSky wrote:On April 24 2011 01:28 salazar001 wrote:On April 24 2011 01:25 ReachTheSky wrote:On April 24 2011 01:23 salazar001 wrote:On April 24 2011 01:12 ReachTheSky wrote:
The reason why collosus is so "imba" is because it benefits from forge ground attack upgrades. Why should tier 2/3 units benefit from forge upgrades?. Terran has to build an armory to upgrade their mech. Zerg has their respective buildings/seperate upgrades for their tier tech. Protoss should have seperate attack/armor upgrades for their robotic tech located at the robotics bay. It would put all races on a more even playing field imo. The colossus doesn't need a nerf. The upgrades just need to be equally balanced. That makes no sense whatsoever. You're comparing protoss upgrades only to terran upgrades when zerg benefits from evolution chamber upgrades. If the zerg upgrades carapace and melee attacks, their broodlords and ultralisks become upgraded too. Stop trying to skew information to your race's favor. do you even know what race i play? What race you play doesn't even matter, as you are providing false information and cannot even reply to the relevant information which in this case is "your problem of upgrades". Of course, there has never been a problem of upgrades. Once again, you can't even fathom to participate in a discussion of what you are trying to propose, and continue to attempt to deride others about information that is not relevant to the topic. And I quote you, "do you even know what league i'm in"? By the way, you play terran. i guarantee you that the upgrades will get changed buddy. you will see. till then unless you actually understand AND play at a high level, you should probably refrain from posting as you aren't actually contributing to a solution instead just bickering with people that are taking time to contribute ideas to a solution. And I will guarantee that the upgrades will not get changed. Maybe people like you should become more like the brood war community and actually learn HOW to counter strategies instead of complaining of OP and wanting nerfs after every consecutive patch. Besides, your whole argument falls apart when you say "you should probably refrain from posting as you aren't actually contributing to a solution instead just bickering with people that are taking time to contribute ideas to a solution.", as I sense some hypocrisy and irony in your sentence.
Actually i played broodwar kid. sigh. Copper leaguers never shut up do they? ;P
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On April 24 2011 01:50 ReachTheSky wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 01:47 salazar001 wrote:On April 24 2011 01:44 ReachTheSky wrote:On April 24 2011 01:32 salazar001 wrote:On April 24 2011 01:30 ReachTheSky wrote:On April 24 2011 01:28 salazar001 wrote:On April 24 2011 01:25 ReachTheSky wrote:On April 24 2011 01:23 salazar001 wrote:On April 24 2011 01:12 ReachTheSky wrote:
The reason why collosus is so "imba" is because it benefits from forge ground attack upgrades. Why should tier 2/3 units benefit from forge upgrades?. Terran has to build an armory to upgrade their mech. Zerg has their respective buildings/seperate upgrades for their tier tech. Protoss should have seperate attack/armor upgrades for their robotic tech located at the robotics bay. It would put all races on a more even playing field imo. The colossus doesn't need a nerf. The upgrades just need to be equally balanced. That makes no sense whatsoever. You're comparing protoss upgrades only to terran upgrades when zerg benefits from evolution chamber upgrades. If the zerg upgrades carapace and melee attacks, their broodlords and ultralisks become upgraded too. Stop trying to skew information to your race's favor. do you even know what race i play? What race you play doesn't even matter, as you are providing false information and cannot even reply to the relevant information which in this case is "your problem of upgrades". Of course, there has never been a problem of upgrades. Once again, you can't even fathom to participate in a discussion of what you are trying to propose, and continue to attempt to deride others about information that is not relevant to the topic. And I quote you, "do you even know what league i'm in"? By the way, you play terran. i guarantee you that the upgrades will get changed buddy. you will see. till then unless you actually understand AND play at a high level, you should probably refrain from posting as you aren't actually contributing to a solution instead just bickering with people that are taking time to contribute ideas to a solution. And I will guarantee that the upgrades will not get changed. Maybe people like you should become more like the brood war community and actually learn HOW to counter strategies instead of complaining of OP and wanting nerfs after every consecutive patch. Besides, your whole argument falls apart when you say "you should probably refrain from posting as you aren't actually contributing to a solution instead just bickering with people that are taking time to contribute ideas to a solution.", as I sense some hypocrisy and irony in your sentence. Actually i played broodwar kid. sigh. Copper leaguers never shut up do they? ;P
Hey did you yell OP in broodwar too? I bet people laughed didn't they? :D
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On April 24 2011 01:52 salazar001 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 01:50 ReachTheSky wrote:On April 24 2011 01:47 salazar001 wrote:On April 24 2011 01:44 ReachTheSky wrote:On April 24 2011 01:32 salazar001 wrote:On April 24 2011 01:30 ReachTheSky wrote:On April 24 2011 01:28 salazar001 wrote:On April 24 2011 01:25 ReachTheSky wrote:On April 24 2011 01:23 salazar001 wrote:On April 24 2011 01:12 ReachTheSky wrote:
The reason why collosus is so "imba" is because it benefits from forge ground attack upgrades. Why should tier 2/3 units benefit from forge upgrades?. Terran has to build an armory to upgrade their mech. Zerg has their respective buildings/seperate upgrades for their tier tech. Protoss should have seperate attack/armor upgrades for their robotic tech located at the robotics bay. It would put all races on a more even playing field imo. The colossus doesn't need a nerf. The upgrades just need to be equally balanced. That makes no sense whatsoever. You're comparing protoss upgrades only to terran upgrades when zerg benefits from evolution chamber upgrades. If the zerg upgrades carapace and melee attacks, their broodlords and ultralisks become upgraded too. Stop trying to skew information to your race's favor. do you even know what race i play? What race you play doesn't even matter, as you are providing false information and cannot even reply to the relevant information which in this case is "your problem of upgrades". Of course, there has never been a problem of upgrades. Once again, you can't even fathom to participate in a discussion of what you are trying to propose, and continue to attempt to deride others about information that is not relevant to the topic. And I quote you, "do you even know what league i'm in"? By the way, you play terran. i guarantee you that the upgrades will get changed buddy. you will see. till then unless you actually understand AND play at a high level, you should probably refrain from posting as you aren't actually contributing to a solution instead just bickering with people that are taking time to contribute ideas to a solution. And I will guarantee that the upgrades will not get changed. Maybe people like you should become more like the brood war community and actually learn HOW to counter strategies instead of complaining of OP and wanting nerfs after every consecutive patch. Besides, your whole argument falls apart when you say "you should probably refrain from posting as you aren't actually contributing to a solution instead just bickering with people that are taking time to contribute ideas to a solution.", as I sense some hypocrisy and irony in your sentence. Actually i played broodwar kid. sigh. Copper leaguers never shut up do they? ;P Hey did you yell OP in broodwar too? I bet people laughed didn't they? :D
No, i was too busy raping copper leaguers like yourself on my nights off from serious competition  nice try kid.
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On April 24 2011 01:54 ReachTheSky wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 01:52 salazar001 wrote:On April 24 2011 01:50 ReachTheSky wrote:On April 24 2011 01:47 salazar001 wrote:On April 24 2011 01:44 ReachTheSky wrote:On April 24 2011 01:32 salazar001 wrote:On April 24 2011 01:30 ReachTheSky wrote:On April 24 2011 01:28 salazar001 wrote:On April 24 2011 01:25 ReachTheSky wrote:On April 24 2011 01:23 salazar001 wrote:
[quote]
That makes no sense whatsoever. You're comparing protoss upgrades only to terran upgrades when zerg benefits from evolution chamber upgrades. If the zerg upgrades carapace and melee attacks, their broodlords and ultralisks become upgraded too. Stop trying to skew information to your race's favor. do you even know what race i play? What race you play doesn't even matter, as you are providing false information and cannot even reply to the relevant information which in this case is "your problem of upgrades". Of course, there has never been a problem of upgrades. Once again, you can't even fathom to participate in a discussion of what you are trying to propose, and continue to attempt to deride others about information that is not relevant to the topic. And I quote you, "do you even know what league i'm in"? By the way, you play terran. i guarantee you that the upgrades will get changed buddy. you will see. till then unless you actually understand AND play at a high level, you should probably refrain from posting as you aren't actually contributing to a solution instead just bickering with people that are taking time to contribute ideas to a solution. And I will guarantee that the upgrades will not get changed. Maybe people like you should become more like the brood war community and actually learn HOW to counter strategies instead of complaining of OP and wanting nerfs after every consecutive patch. Besides, your whole argument falls apart when you say "you should probably refrain from posting as you aren't actually contributing to a solution instead just bickering with people that are taking time to contribute ideas to a solution.", as I sense some hypocrisy and irony in your sentence. Actually i played broodwar kid. sigh. Copper leaguers never shut up do they? ;P Hey did you yell OP in broodwar too? I bet people laughed didn't they? :D No, i was too busy raping copper leaguers like yourself on my nights off from serious competition nice try kid.
You do realize that you aren't offending anyone right? Hopefully you don't pursue further "serious competition" because it'll probably end up as a joke. :D
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The only thing that i find to be a problem is the really long range. Yeah i know someone is gunna say "but seige tanks", seige tanks dont move. Collosus can be micro'ed and essentially be unkillable unless you have 6+ corrupter/vikings. Even then, if they get 4+ collosi, you have to dedicated a ton of supply, almost 3 times the collosus value in supply to corrupter/viking to handle the collosus before they decimate your ground army. All in all, just reduce range and collosi can be dealt with easily if you control your units correctly.
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EPT
