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On April 14 2011 10:53 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 10:44 dacthehork wrote:On April 14 2011 10:42 mcc wrote:On April 14 2011 10:29 trashcan wrote:On April 14 2011 10:24 mcc wrote:On April 14 2011 10:14 PraetorianX wrote:On April 14 2011 10:05 FliedLice wrote:On April 14 2011 10:03 PraetorianX wrote:
Not cool. Why not just give the win to White-Ra? It's not his fault, not even a little bit. Why couldn't you just play the game a different day, when White-Ra has a computer? The Dreamhack Finals was 2 days ago. I don't see how they could conflict. You didn't even think for a single second before making that post, right? Might also want to read the thread... I did read the thread. White-Ra was unavailable for the game, which was totally understandable considering the circumstances. The point is, they should have rescheduled instead of just awarding the win to July. Also, I'm sure White-Ra had a perfectly reasonable explanation for everything that happened. I might disagree with a lot of people in this thread about rescheduling, but no, they should have rescheduled long time before yesterday. As they did not as is their prerogative, the ruling to give win to July was perfectly correct. They just should not have left July waiting for 4h and do it sooner. They don't have to reschedule anything. It's the players responsibility. NASL isn't responsible for making your life fit perfectly. If you accepted NASL's contract and decided to play in it, maybe you should respect them and not attend tournaments that conflict with the schedule you agreed to. With that said NASL went out of their way to try and make this work while White-Ra didn't. It's simple as that and to try and put any blame, even partially ("NASL should have rescheduled"), on NASL is bullshit. Read the thread. I already said I am not blaming NASL for that. I am blaming NASL (and maybe White-ra) for keeping July there for 4 hours. They should have made the ruling after 45 minutes. I am all for following the rules and the decision was correct. That does not change the fact that their scheduling rules and far from perfect (and before you reply read what I mean by bad schedule). As for people saying White-ra is unprofessional, I would love to know how can you be sure ? Do you actually know why he went to the party and not to play ? If he just said, fuck it I want to party then yes he was unprofessional. But what if he thought that he was already forfeit since it was long after the match was supposed to start ? Are you sure that there was no miscommunication between NASL and White-ra ? White Ra didn't contact NASL at all. They tried his phone / email etc but nothing. It wasn't some kind of miscommunication, it was White Ra ignoring nasl after winning a good bit of money, then going to party. If he thought he already forfeit why would he contact NASL ? I often turn off my phone when I am not expecting messages/calls and it is not because I want to ignore someone. I also often ignore calls from unknown numbers altogether. Also wasn't DH winner takes all ? In that case White-ra won nothing.
Read NASL.TV post.
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On April 14 2011 10:52 mdb wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 10:49 NASL.tv wrote:
I sent White-Ra two emails, he didn't respond to them. I got an email from him at 8am today (about 16-17 hours after I emailed him).
I know he got the emails, because he had been emailing me from his iphone in the previous days, and had even sent me an email before the final started from his iphone. Therefore, I know he received my emails, and chose not to respond to them.
a) He said "hi i make final pp my game" , despite me telling him the day before he could play from a PC cafe
b) I replied "you can play from a PC cafe thats close by, please keep in touch"
c) 2 hours later I emailed him again and said, "we've been waiting for you for 2 hours where are you"
Unfortunately we can only accommodate for other events so much... we have a pretty rigid schedule, and changing the time for one player means we have to switch around the other player too. When you have a Korean involved it becomes MUCH more difficult because they already sacrifice so much to plan their sleep schedule each week around an NASL match -- just telling them they need to play at a different time is unfair to them.
At some point, you need to take responsibility and manage your schedule more appropriately, or take the time to make arrangements. SjoW for example chose not to go to the afterparty or hang out with his friends, drove home, and played his NASL match. So, whitera told you that he cant make it and asked to reschedule the game and you told him to go to a pc cafe to play?
Where in that post do you read that he asked for a reschedule?
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On April 14 2011 10:54 FliedLice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 10:52 mdb wrote:On April 14 2011 10:49 NASL.tv wrote:
I sent White-Ra two emails, he didn't respond to them. I got an email from him at 8am today (about 16-17 hours after I emailed him).
I know he got the emails, because he had been emailing me from his iphone in the previous days, and had even sent me an email before the final started from his iphone. Therefore, I know he received my emails, and chose not to respond to them.
a) He said "hi i make final pp my game" , despite me telling him the day before he could play from a PC cafe
b) I replied "you can play from a PC cafe thats close by, please keep in touch"
c) 2 hours later I emailed him again and said, "we've been waiting for you for 2 hours where are you"
Unfortunately we can only accommodate for other events so much... we have a pretty rigid schedule, and changing the time for one player means we have to switch around the other player too. When you have a Korean involved it becomes MUCH more difficult because they already sacrifice so much to plan their sleep schedule each week around an NASL match -- just telling them they need to play at a different time is unfair to them.
At some point, you need to take responsibility and manage your schedule more appropriately, or take the time to make arrangements. SjoW for example chose not to go to the afterparty or hang out with his friends, drove home, and played his NASL match. So, whitera told you that he cant make it and asked to reschedule the game and you told him to go to a pc cafe to play? Where in that post do you read that he asked for a reschedule?
I dont know, thats why I`m asking. What "pp my game" means?
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On April 14 2011 10:56 mdb wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 10:54 FliedLice wrote:On April 14 2011 10:52 mdb wrote:On April 14 2011 10:49 NASL.tv wrote:
I sent White-Ra two emails, he didn't respond to them. I got an email from him at 8am today (about 16-17 hours after I emailed him).
I know he got the emails, because he had been emailing me from his iphone in the previous days, and had even sent me an email before the final started from his iphone. Therefore, I know he received my emails, and chose not to respond to them.
a) He said "hi i make final pp my game" , despite me telling him the day before he could play from a PC cafe
b) I replied "you can play from a PC cafe thats close by, please keep in touch"
c) 2 hours later I emailed him again and said, "we've been waiting for you for 2 hours where are you"
Unfortunately we can only accommodate for other events so much... we have a pretty rigid schedule, and changing the time for one player means we have to switch around the other player too. When you have a Korean involved it becomes MUCH more difficult because they already sacrifice so much to plan their sleep schedule each week around an NASL match -- just telling them they need to play at a different time is unfair to them.
At some point, you need to take responsibility and manage your schedule more appropriately, or take the time to make arrangements. SjoW for example chose not to go to the afterparty or hang out with his friends, drove home, and played his NASL match. So, whitera told you that he cant make it and asked to reschedule the game and you told him to go to a pc cafe to play? Where in that post do you read that he asked for a reschedule? I dont know, thats why I`m asking. What "pp my game" means?
Post-pone, and they did, he was given an additional 3 hours and 15 minutes and still didn't comply.
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On April 14 2011 10:33 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 10:23 Cranberries wrote:On April 14 2011 10:20 mcc wrote:On April 14 2011 10:15 Cranberries wrote:On April 14 2011 10:12 mcc wrote:On April 14 2011 10:08 Cranberries wrote:On April 14 2011 10:05 mcc wrote:On April 14 2011 09:58 Cranberries wrote:Proof, or are we still under the speculation that this is totally a scheduling problem? :D The point is not whether White-ra went to the party I hope that is already established as a fact. But that does not say anything about why he did he decided not to play. And it is scheduling problem anyway, because it was scheduled on the same day and even on the same hour as DH tournament. Yeah. Finding a time when a Korean, two Americans, as well as Whitera ... As well as all the other players on the same day for NASL Day 1-2 to play and streamline efficiently so it can be broadcasted in a polished manner sure is easy. Wait, what? Should I again requote 3 easy solutions to rescheduling problem that I already posted ? I will use just one. Why not let White-ra and July play earlier and cast from replays. I highly doubt White-ra and July would be incapable of finding the time to play, especially since EU time and KST have a lot of day overlap and you just need to find one referee to be present for the game, which can be any trustworthy European, Korean or even American and it would not be hard to find such a person. Clearly the NASL organisers have a set way to do things. It is by this set method that they're doing it. I assume the players had to sign some sort of agreement towards the terms and regulations (a EULA/ToS, if you will) of the tournament in order to participate. What the hell is wrong with you people? And if you note I am not saying the forfeit decision was bad, just that their scheduling rules/decisions are bad. If they had more flexible scheduling decisions(easily achievable), but still precisely written and enforced, the end-result would be better for viewers and for NASL. So tell me this: Artosis has to cast the GSL. He plays in the NASL. Like Julyzerg he has to wake up at 4am for his game. He also has to cast the GSL, possibly, on the same day. He's going to have to wake up at 4am for it. In a tournament "this big" you cannot be flexible for one person ... When one person is special, other people demand that special treatment: then you get a bunch of whining little shits who want to play when they're feeling up to it. The scheduling may be bad - but if every other player and their mother can make the times, Whitera should be able to. Hell, SjoW made sure he was able to play and he even stayed to the end of the DH finals... I did not say they should make exceptions to White-ra alone. They should make their rules strict and clear but allow reasonable rescheduling according to rules. By reasonable I mean if they know week in advance that one player has big likelihood of not being able to play on the set date because of important circumstances (conflict with big tournament, death in the family,...) but would be able to play for example 3 days before, to just allow players to play it at different date and cast from replays. This would not happen too often and is not some organisational nightmare. As I said no exceptions, you can make rules so they allow rare rescheduling that is according to rules and therefore there is no preferential treatment.
This seems pretty reasonable to me too. I don't think there was anything wrong with the decision NASL made due to the circumstances. Depending on the amount of time NASL is given in advance for a major lan like Dreamhack, rescheduling should be possible. The same sentiment extends to Sjow, too. This is a 5-day a week 3 month long league. To not run into scheduling problems with other tournaments is impossible. It happened with Idra with the GSL and a European tournament as well (I believe it was IEM, but I don't remember which one).
So awarding July the win is perfectly acceptable, but I do hope rescheduling due to conflicting events remains a possibility for NASL games. Otherwise this is going to happen again. Understandably while rescheduling in general should remain an option, in specific cases it may not be possible. It is another burden, but it's a burden placed on themselves when they decided to run a 5-day a week tournament.
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On April 14 2011 10:49 Seldszar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 10:47 PraetorianX wrote:On April 14 2011 10:44 dacthehork wrote:On April 14 2011 10:42 mcc wrote:On April 14 2011 10:29 trashcan wrote:On April 14 2011 10:24 mcc wrote:On April 14 2011 10:14 PraetorianX wrote:On April 14 2011 10:05 FliedLice wrote:On April 14 2011 10:03 PraetorianX wrote:
Not cool. Why not just give the win to White-Ra? It's not his fault, not even a little bit. Why couldn't you just play the game a different day, when White-Ra has a computer? The Dreamhack Finals was 2 days ago. I don't see how they could conflict. You didn't even think for a single second before making that post, right? Might also want to read the thread... I did read the thread. White-Ra was unavailable for the game, which was totally understandable considering the circumstances. The point is, they should have rescheduled instead of just awarding the win to July. Also, I'm sure White-Ra had a perfectly reasonable explanation for everything that happened. I might disagree with a lot of people in this thread about rescheduling, but no, they should have rescheduled long time before yesterday. As they did not as is their prerogative, the ruling to give win to July was perfectly correct. They just should not have left July waiting for 4h and do it sooner. They don't have to reschedule anything. It's the players responsibility. NASL isn't responsible for making your life fit perfectly. If you accepted NASL's contract and decided to play in it, maybe you should respect them and not attend tournaments that conflict with the schedule you agreed to. With that said NASL went out of their way to try and make this work while White-Ra didn't. It's simple as that and to try and put any blame, even partially ("NASL should have rescheduled"), on NASL is bullshit. Read the thread. I already said I am not blaming NASL for that. I am blaming NASL (and maybe White-ra) for keeping July there for 4 hours. They should have made the ruling after 45 minutes. I am all for following the rules and the decision was correct. That does not change the fact that their scheduling rules and far from perfect (and before you reply read what I mean by bad schedule). As for people saying White-ra is unprofessional, I would love to know how can you be sure ? Do you actually know why he went to the party and not to play ? If he just said, fuck it I want to party then yes he was unprofessional. But what if he thought that he was already forfeit since it was long after the match was supposed to start ? Are you sure that there was no miscommunication between NASL and White-ra ? White Ra didn't contact NASL at all. They tried his phone / email etc but nothing. It wasn't some kind of miscommunication, it was White Ra ignoring nasl after winning a good bit of money, then going to party. A bit off-topic perhaps, but actually I don't think White-Ra won any money at all at Dreamhack. First prize was 100k, second prize was a "wildcard", no other prizes. Correct me if I'm wrong. Read the news... it was 15k for the winner. I dont know for 2nd place, probably around 5k.
100k swedish = 15k EUR, as far as I know nothing for the 2nd.
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If White-Ra would not be available to play he should have forfeited himself. Besides that, what he does with his time is not our business.
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On April 14 2011 10:56 mdb wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 10:54 FliedLice wrote:On April 14 2011 10:52 mdb wrote:On April 14 2011 10:49 NASL.tv wrote:
I sent White-Ra two emails, he didn't respond to them. I got an email from him at 8am today (about 16-17 hours after I emailed him).
I know he got the emails, because he had been emailing me from his iphone in the previous days, and had even sent me an email before the final started from his iphone. Therefore, I know he received my emails, and chose not to respond to them.
a) He said "hi i make final pp my game" , despite me telling him the day before he could play from a PC cafe
b) I replied "you can play from a PC cafe thats close by, please keep in touch"
c) 2 hours later I emailed him again and said, "we've been waiting for you for 2 hours where are you"
Unfortunately we can only accommodate for other events so much... we have a pretty rigid schedule, and changing the time for one player means we have to switch around the other player too. When you have a Korean involved it becomes MUCH more difficult because they already sacrifice so much to plan their sleep schedule each week around an NASL match -- just telling them they need to play at a different time is unfair to them.
At some point, you need to take responsibility and manage your schedule more appropriately, or take the time to make arrangements. SjoW for example chose not to go to the afterparty or hang out with his friends, drove home, and played his NASL match. So, whitera told you that he cant make it and asked to reschedule the game and you told him to go to a pc cafe to play? Where in that post do you read that he asked for a reschedule? I dont know, thats why I`m asking. What "pp my game" means?
Oh... I assumed it stands for Penalty Points, since that's how ESL handles it and NASL has some similar system with those 250$ deposit
But you're right, pp could probably also mean "postpone"... actually that's more likely... me dumb :D
White-Ra english is confusing 
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On April 14 2011 10:49 NASL.tv wrote:
a) He said "hi i make final pp my game" , despite me telling him the day before he could play from a PC cafe
What does "pp my game" mean? PP = please pause?
Ah never mind, I saw above that he probably meant postpone.
So White-Ra probably knew he couldn't make it in time, he asked the event organizers to postpone his game. And after that final, I'm sure White-Ra was getting hundreds of calls / texts / E-mails from various fans / family / others so it's not strange he turned off his phone. He probably didn't read those last E-mails until the day after.
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This sort of thing comes up a lot.
I don't think you can schedule and plan for every eventuality in a schedule, There's a lot of tournaments now, and you don't even know who's going to do what.
Cruncher could be in the Finals for Code A in two months or something.
You set a time you think is likely to work, obviously both July and White-Ra agreed to this scheduled match.
It would have been his responsibility to say 'Well I'll be at DreamHack, can we do it at 8am KST instead of 4am?' I'm sure July wouldn't have objected to that...but you can't decide at 4am to delay it, you'd have to decide before hand and move it with fair notice.
It's really White-Ra's responsibility to contact NASL, not the other way around.
He knew he had a match that conflicted, he should have made arrangements before it...not wait until after it ended then be out of touch for the next 3 hours.
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PP = Postpone lol.
My God, next we'll have people claiming BB means blueberries and not fucking blackberry (regarding the phone, y'know?) >.>
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699 Posts
On April 14 2011 11:01 PraetorianX wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 10:49 NASL.tv wrote:
a) He said "hi i make final pp my game" , despite me telling him the day before he could play from a PC cafe
What does "pp my game" mean? PP = please pause? Ah never mind, I saw above that he probably meant postpone. So White-Ra probably knew he couldn't make it in time, he asked the event organizers to postpone his game. And after that final, I'm sure White-Ra was getting hundreds of calls / texts / E-mails from various fans / family / others so it's not strange he turned off his phone. He probably didn't read those last E-mails until the day after.
Correct. Despite the fact that we had told him in previous emails, "we can't postpone" and "there's a PC cafe 10 minutes away you can go to play" ... He made a choice. As I said, SjoW drove home straight after Dreamhack instead of hanging out with friends or going to a party in order to play. White-Ra could have taken 1 hour out of his schedule to play his NASL match, and then go party.
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Nobody honestly saw something like this coming after they saw the NASL schedule? This kind of situation (not this exact one obviously) was the first thing that came to mind for me.
Edit: And this also...
On April 14 2011 05:23 vrok wrote:
Pretty strange scheduling to be honest when it's all prerecorded anyway, but whatever...
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On April 14 2011 11:09 NASL.tv wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 11:01 PraetorianX wrote:On April 14 2011 10:49 NASL.tv wrote:
a) He said "hi i make final pp my game" , despite me telling him the day before he could play from a PC cafe
What does "pp my game" mean? PP = please pause? Ah never mind, I saw above that he probably meant postpone. So White-Ra probably knew he couldn't make it in time, he asked the event organizers to postpone his game. And after that final, I'm sure White-Ra was getting hundreds of calls / texts / E-mails from various fans / family / others so it's not strange he turned off his phone. He probably didn't read those last E-mails until the day after. Correct. Despite the fact that we had told him in previous emails, "we can't postpone" and "there's a PC cafe 10 minutes away you can go to play" ... He made a choice. As I said, SjoW drove home straight after Dreamhack instead of hanging out with friends or going to a party in order to play. White-Ra could have taken 1 hour out of his schedule to play his NASL match, and then go party. amen, thanks for setting the record strait...even though i thought the first post did that XD
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On April 14 2011 10:54 Seldszar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 10:53 mcc wrote:On April 14 2011 10:44 dacthehork wrote:On April 14 2011 10:42 mcc wrote:On April 14 2011 10:29 trashcan wrote:On April 14 2011 10:24 mcc wrote:On April 14 2011 10:14 PraetorianX wrote:On April 14 2011 10:05 FliedLice wrote:On April 14 2011 10:03 PraetorianX wrote:
Not cool. Why not just give the win to White-Ra? It's not his fault, not even a little bit. Why couldn't you just play the game a different day, when White-Ra has a computer? The Dreamhack Finals was 2 days ago. I don't see how they could conflict. You didn't even think for a single second before making that post, right? Might also want to read the thread... I did read the thread. White-Ra was unavailable for the game, which was totally understandable considering the circumstances. The point is, they should have rescheduled instead of just awarding the win to July. Also, I'm sure White-Ra had a perfectly reasonable explanation for everything that happened. I might disagree with a lot of people in this thread about rescheduling, but no, they should have rescheduled long time before yesterday. As they did not as is their prerogative, the ruling to give win to July was perfectly correct. They just should not have left July waiting for 4h and do it sooner. They don't have to reschedule anything. It's the players responsibility. NASL isn't responsible for making your life fit perfectly. If you accepted NASL's contract and decided to play in it, maybe you should respect them and not attend tournaments that conflict with the schedule you agreed to. With that said NASL went out of their way to try and make this work while White-Ra didn't. It's simple as that and to try and put any blame, even partially ("NASL should have rescheduled"), on NASL is bullshit. Read the thread. I already said I am not blaming NASL for that. I am blaming NASL (and maybe White-ra) for keeping July there for 4 hours. They should have made the ruling after 45 minutes. I am all for following the rules and the decision was correct. That does not change the fact that their scheduling rules and far from perfect (and before you reply read what I mean by bad schedule). As for people saying White-ra is unprofessional, I would love to know how can you be sure ? Do you actually know why he went to the party and not to play ? If he just said, fuck it I want to party then yes he was unprofessional. But what if he thought that he was already forfeit since it was long after the match was supposed to start ? Are you sure that there was no miscommunication between NASL and White-ra ? White Ra didn't contact NASL at all. They tried his phone / email etc but nothing. It wasn't some kind of miscommunication, it was White Ra ignoring nasl after winning a good bit of money, then going to party. If he thought he already forfeit why would he contact NASL ? I often turn off my phone when I am not expecting messages/calls and it is not because I want to ignore someone. I also often ignore calls from unknown numbers altogether. Also wasn't DH winner takes all ? In that case White-ra won nothing. Read NASL.TV post.
I did and only thing I can gather is that White-ra assumed/understood something wrongly and went to a party where he ignored his phone which is not surprising. It is still possible he just said "fuck NASL let's party", but I do not see anything to clearly support that.
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I agree, White-Ra definitely should've contacted NASL early on and asked to reschedule his match with July after DreamHack was over. When you host a tournament, it's up to the players to decide to show up or not, if they don't they should be disqualified. In the Olympics, if one of the athletes don't show up at all on time, you'd be disqualified no matter what your reason is. No one is going to wait 4 hours for you to perform.
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On April 14 2011 10:52 mdb wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 10:49 NASL.tv wrote:
I sent White-Ra two emails, he didn't respond to them. I got an email from him at 8am today (about 16-17 hours after I emailed him).
I know he got the emails, because he had been emailing me from his iphone in the previous days, and had even sent me an email before the final started from his iphone. Therefore, I know he received my emails, and chose not to respond to them.
a) He said "hi i make final pp my game" , despite me telling him the day before he could play from a PC cafe
b) I replied "you can play from a PC cafe thats close by, please keep in touch"
c) 2 hours later I emailed him again and said, "we've been waiting for you for 2 hours where are you"
Unfortunately we can only accommodate for other events so much... we have a pretty rigid schedule, and changing the time for one player means we have to switch around the other player too. When you have a Korean involved it becomes MUCH more difficult because they already sacrifice so much to plan their sleep schedule each week around an NASL match -- just telling them they need to play at a different time is unfair to them.
At some point, you need to take responsibility and manage your schedule more appropriately, or take the time to make arrangements. SjoW for example chose not to go to the afterparty or hang out with his friends, drove home, and played his NASL match. So, whitera told you that he cant make it and asked to reschedule the game and you told him to go to a pc cafe to play?
All in all that's a pretty warped understanding of the post you just read. Good work.
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On April 14 2011 11:01 PraetorianX wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 10:49 NASL.tv wrote:
a) He said "hi i make final pp my game" , despite me telling him the day before he could play from a PC cafe
What does "pp my game" mean? PP = please pause? Ah never mind, I saw above that he probably meant postpone. So White-Ra probably knew he couldn't make it in time, he asked the event organizers to postpone his game. And after that final, I'm sure White-Ra was getting hundreds of calls / texts / E-mails from various fans / family / others so it's not strange he turned off his phone. He probably didn't read those last E-mails until the day after.
If that is your newest excuse for White-Ra not being responsible for this it's pretty pathetic. As a player you have are responsible for your games just as the tournament organizers are, you can't expect them to just do as you wish after dropping them a one-liner and then cut off the contact.
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United States15275 Posts
Can someone explain to me exactly what happened with Naniwa?
Without prejudice.
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On April 14 2011 11:09 NASL.tv wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 11:01 PraetorianX wrote:On April 14 2011 10:49 NASL.tv wrote:
a) He said "hi i make final pp my game" , despite me telling him the day before he could play from a PC cafe
What does "pp my game" mean? PP = please pause? Ah never mind, I saw above that he probably meant postpone. So White-Ra probably knew he couldn't make it in time, he asked the event organizers to postpone his game. And after that final, I'm sure White-Ra was getting hundreds of calls / texts / E-mails from various fans / family / others so it's not strange he turned off his phone. He probably didn't read those last E-mails until the day after. Correct. Despite the fact that we had told him in previous emails, "we can't postpone" and "there's a PC cafe 10 minutes away you can go to play" ... He made a choice. As I said, SjoW drove home straight after Dreamhack instead of hanging out with friends or going to a party in order to play. White-Ra could have taken 1 hour out of his schedule to play his NASL match, and then go party.
Ah since you are reading this thread, if White-ra asked beforehand(like week beforehand) for playing it another day, or just playing it with July and a referee so you can cast it from replays, would his request be granted ? It seems at least the second variant should not be a organizational nightmare if done rarely or am I missing some problem ?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img33.imageshack.us/i/img9647q.jpg)
