Yeah, getting SC2 on TV doesn't quite have the same meaning as getting e-sports on TV 6-7 years ago.
You know, I just sat down and tried to remember when was the last time I've actually watched something from Start to finish on TV, and the last time I can remember doing that was 3 years ago, and I live in Australia where I don't have conveniences like Hulu and only recently have we started to get internet plans that have exceeded 30gigs in bandwidth (at a reasonable price range)
Putting some more thought into it, I think the amount of TV I've watched in the last 2 years is probably close to 2 hours... I can't even remember the last time I actually watched TV 0o (in the last two years or so)
On April 12 2011 11:55 imareaver3 wrote: I'm curious, now, how do MBC and OGN do it? I don't know anything about the logistics of the BW scene, so maybe I'm missing something stupid, but why don't the reasons (Like the impossibility of commercial breaks and general inaccessibility of the game) that seem to logically preclude SC2 on Western TV apply to the Korean TV stations? Is there something fundamentally different about them?
Because gaming is much more socially acceptable in South Korea than in the US. You may be surprised to know that an overwhelming majority of fans at live OSL/MSL matches are girls...who don't even have a true appreciation for what is going on. The Korean BW scene masterfully constructed narrative and emotion around the players, and teams. There are so many other shows on MBC/OGN not even related to the matches themselves but rather the casters, players, teams etc. That is what keeps viewers watching MSL/OSL.
It is fundamentally different because in Korea you can market gamers with sex appeal/mystique. When IGN released their new promos for IPL i almost had a heart attack that they are trying something similar - it doesn't work in the west.
Remember that what is "socially acceptable" will change relatively quickly. There is an entire generation of kids that are growing up and they consider being good at SC2 or any other game as impressive as being good at basketball.
A large percentage of that same generation are still going to grow up watching Western TV like Jersey Shore, and music with the message of "Get money, get ho's." A generation of people who don't see gamers as geeks, nerds and losers is far, far away in my opinion.
I agree, Brad. I just went to CES this weekend, and I still got crap for being a nerd/loser from my friends and family. Granted, they weren't being totally serious, but the sentiment is still there. Even though people these days are growing up with video games, it doesn't mean COMPETITIVE gaming will be socially acceptable. There is more of an influence of the things brad described than of video games.
So yeah, it would be very hard to bring in a casual audience to TV. A lot of people would take one look at a professional videogame competition (they would NOT think "ESPORTS", but "people playing games") and likely change the channel immediately. Or at least that is what the people I know would do.
Besides, as people before me have mentioned, a lot of the target audience solely watches TV online. Its what I do. I barely use my cable package (except for things like Michigan sports away games!), and that is the general trend for a lot of people. Something like streaming (or IPTV) is likely the best option for StarCraft's target audience.
Overall, very well written Kennigit. I agree with pretty much everything you said. This definitely needed to be written.
On April 12 2011 12:33 lunick wrote: Whats wrong with having commercials in between games? Also I think everything is fine just the way it is... There is already tv on the internet and pretty soon people will only watch it on the computer so I think that starcraft is already a head of the game
Consider the fact that starcraft does not lend itself to television broadcast [in the western episodic sense] for a number of reasons.
compared to conventional sports like hockey or football, a single Bo3 of starcraft could last anywhere from 15mins to 2hours +. While the hockey and football matches will last 60mins of gametime [with the occasional overtime]. Professional sports have been tailored to television over the years with planned TV timeouts and breaks between periods. This simply won't work with StarCraft; as one cannot take a timeout or break in the middle of an hour long macro slugfest. [As kennigit was pointing out]
Is this expansion going to go up? We will find out.... after this commercial break! Fuck that ^^
Seriously though, e-sports/ sc2 on television doesn't seem like it's that big of a deal. Whether or not it becomes more acceptable in American culture, having e-sports on TV seems like such a short sited dream.
i never use to know alot of the rules for sports. But i can still watch the game and instantly understand what is going on and the goals of both sides. If someone tunes into a sc match in the first 5 mins of a game where its mostly just building with maybe a few pokes..if you never played the game you wouldnt have a clue.
Surely someone tuning into a RTS game can figure out the basic goal (it's military, so kill the other guy) if they have basic knowledge of what an RTS is; similarly, most people who tune into sports on TV already have very basic knowledge about ball sports; score goals, somehow, with defensive and offensive positions, etc.
Other than that, I don't think someone new to football would understand why one team can keep trying to advance over and over while the other team had to stop; my parents sure didn't, as the only sport they have decent knowledge about is basketball, which is quite the different ball sport than football. In basketball, I don't know what all the markings on the court mean/restrict/indicate, for example the key near the hoop and all those lines. People who aren't familiar with basketball would not be able to easily figure out what all those mean; why did he suddenly stop defending? The commentators don't really talk about such things, and there are so many markings that it would be difficult to figure out which line means what because you can't even see them that well.
Similarly, someone with only basic knowledge of an RTS may not figure out why people are doing these "small" attacks aka drops/harassment instead of attacking the opponent's army directly. They may not know what minerals are or buildings are, and they won't easily figure out what each thing does unless the commentators teach some newbie things so that the audience will learn or else they would have to look them up.
Perhaps I'm trying to compare two things that are too different, but i hope people understand this.
Kickass writeup. I wholeheartedly agree that SC has no chance on television, but I think the most important aspect, like many others have said, is that television is becomming totally irrelevant to the average starcraft fan. I am perfectly happy keeping the current state of streams/VODs as the method of exposure.
On April 12 2011 11:55 imareaver3 wrote: I'm curious, now, how do MBC and OGN do it? I don't know anything about the logistics of the BW scene, so maybe I'm missing something stupid, but why don't the reasons (Like the impossibility of commercial breaks and general inaccessibility of the game) that seem to logically preclude SC2 on Western TV apply to the Korean TV stations? Is there something fundamentally different about them?
Because gaming is much more socially acceptable in South Korea than in the US. You may be surprised to know that an overwhelming majority of fans at live OSL/MSL matches are girls...who don't even have a true appreciation for what is going on. The Korean BW scene masterfully constructed narrative and emotion around the players, and teams. There are so many other shows on MBC/OGN not even related to the matches themselves but rather the casters, players, teams etc. That is what keeps viewers watching MSL/OSL.
It is fundamentally different because in Korea you can market gamers with sex appeal/mystique. When IGN released their new promos for IPL i almost had a heart attack that they are trying something similar - it doesn't work in the west.
Remember that what is "socially acceptable" will change relatively quickly. There is an entire generation of kids that are growing up and they consider being good at SC2 or any other game as impressive as being good at basketball.
100%. I should have written "it doesn't work in the west...yet"
Recently I have been contemplating the "editing" challenges that RTS games present (because of the huge playing field) and I think the only answer is to have companies begin to build in better observer tools that allow different points of view. I think that being able to zoom out further from the action would be helpful when observing positional play. It would also be nice to be able to do some PiP or something.
This would also extend to Halo which I find difficult to watch after short periods of time because of the first person view. It's kind of the same as watching pro-level replays from their POV as they jump all over the map.
Kennigit, you make lots of sense. Hopefully these points are taken into consideration by anyone looking to enhance the viewer experience of SC2.
On April 12 2011 11:25 LoLAdriankat wrote: Pretty sure the 14-25 age group doesn't even care about TV anymore anyway. That age group watches their stuff on Hulu, Youtube, etc.
If NASL was on TV, I couldn't watch it because I don't have cable. Since it's on the internet, I can stream it on my HD television. internet 1-0 tv
On April 12 2011 11:55 imareaver3 wrote: I'm curious, now, how do MBC and OGN do it? I don't know anything about the logistics of the BW scene, so maybe I'm missing something stupid, but why don't the reasons (Like the impossibility of commercial breaks and general inaccessibility of the game) that seem to logically preclude SC2 on Western TV apply to the Korean TV stations? Is there something fundamentally different about them?
Because gaming is much more socially acceptable in South Korea than in the US. You may be surprised to know that an overwhelming majority of fans at live OSL/MSL matches are girls...who don't even have a true appreciation for what is going on. The Korean BW scene masterfully constructed narrative and emotion around the players, and teams. There are so many other shows on MBC/OGN not even related to the matches themselves but rather the casters, players, teams etc. That is what keeps viewers watching MSL/OSL.
It is fundamentally different because in Korea you can market gamers with sex appeal/mystique. When IGN released their new promos for IPL i almost had a heart attack that they are trying something similar - it doesn't work in the west.
Remember that what is "socially acceptable" will change relatively quickly. There is an entire generation of kids that are growing up and they consider being good at SC2 or any other game as impressive as being good at basketball.
On April 12 2011 11:18 Kennigit wrote: A TV station simply cant run a 45 minute game without commercials in North America and still remain profitable.
Out of curiosity, how do they handle this in Korea?
A few people have posted in more detail a page or 2 back, but Korean TV Stations don't have the same kind of broadcast/commercial regulation as in the west. If you take a 60 minute program in North America, you can almost guarantee when the commercials will be, and that the show itself is cut down to 42 minutes long. Korea doesn't have those types of restrictions.
On April 12 2011 12:36 Dommk wrote: Yeah, getting SC2 on TV doesn't quite have the same meaning as getting e-sports on TV 6-7 years ago.
You know, I just sat down and tried to remember when was the last time I've actually watched something from Start to finish on TV, and the last time I can remember doing that was 3 years ago, and I live in Australia where I don't have conveniences like Hulu and only recently have we started to get internet plans that have exceeded 30gigs in bandwidth (at a reasonable price range)
Putting some more thought into it, I think the amount of TV I've watched in the last 2 years is probably close to 2 hours... I can't even remember the last time I actually watched TV 0o (in the last two years or so)
This totally I actually was sort of in the mindset of Starcraft on TV would be a good thing when I started to read this because last time I even thought about e-sports on TV was a book I read about Counter-Strike trying to get on TV (I'm a bit too young to have paid attention as it happened) and I had always sort of just equated TV to being the big next step and legitimizer of e-sports but then I did what this guy did, I stopped and thought about how much stuff I've watched on TV as compared to computer recently, and now I'm just thinking about how I'm sitting on a couch in front of a TV that I don't even have a cable box for because I only use it for Xbox/Gamecube, so really yeah TV doesn't have to be the end goal anymore and this response really shows why.
I know some former CGS employees actually post on TL, it would be great if they could be interviewed on this topic, but i doubt that would ever come to fruition. I would love to hear what Jason Lake would say. Seeing how he was one of the biggest advocates in pushing eSports to the mainstream.
i think, some people have something quite different in mind - MONEY. i mean, alot of people saying some casters etc should be appreciated for promoting esport, but deep down do they really care about esport? :3 if esport grows, good for everyone, and they will be praised as some important figures XD; if esport fails, it is 'natural'.
as well as i think that kennigit have made some very good and valid points, some people may fail to see that, someone is just using sc2 to grab some $$$ from the VC. it is just simple as that.
EPT
