Large Maps and the Zerg Guessing Game - Page 4

On April 04 2011 20:19 Thrombozyt wrote:
You can make a turn-based game mechanically challenging, too by giving it a poorer interface - but that would obviously be stupid so it's not done.

On April 04 2011 20:19 Thrombozyt wrote:
I don't want to derail the thread too much, but a random silver player that comes up with a strategy that defeats the strategy of Idra or Dimaga and knows the tactical ins and outs of his strategy (e.g. how to disguise his intentions, what to scout for, how his strategy should react to his opponents strategy) should lose, because - dispite him being extremely creative and one step ahead throughout the game - he cannot click the buttons fast enough and precisely enough?

On April 04 2011 16:41 TanX wrote:
Played on Typhon Peaks against a Terran as Zerg.

I spawned on the 11 O'clock position and he spawned on the 7 O'clock position - meaning that when I eventually scouted his base, I had to get my overlord all around the map in order to make sure that it arrived (as the ramp is placed along the edge that I would normally pass by - and the base layout means I would need a hero Ovie to have it survive long enough to scout anything placed in-base)... Meanwhile I kept Zerglings at his wall, constantly checking what he was doing.
I could see a single rax from the front, of which he produced some marines.

He moved out with about 4 marines and positioned them as if he was about to lift his CC down to expand, so I kept scouting and droned a little while retaining a few larvas for lings or roaches.
Then I sacrificed 2 Zerglings to run past his marines and into his base, scouting 3 rax MM, and in that same instant he moved out...

I don't know if you have tried that but it takes approximately 2 seconds for the Terran to arrive at your natural, horribly horribly destroying my defences with his MM force - I didn't really stand a chance - didn't even have enough time to get my first batch of roaches out, and at that time my spines were already gone. (I build x2 for defences when I early expo)
Meanwhile, my Overlord wasn't even ready to move into his base to scout. (which would die to his marines anyway)

That made me kind of frustrated.

On April 04 2011 20:19 Thrombozyt wrote:
I don't want to derail the thread too much, but a random silver player that comes up with a strategy that defeats the strategy of Idra or Dimaga and knows the tactical ins and outs of his strategy (e.g. how to disguise his intentions, what to scout for, how his strategy should react to his opponents strategy) should lose, because - dispite him being extremely creative and one step ahead throughout the game - he cannot click the buttons fast enough and precisely enough?

On April 04 2011 20:38 Dalavita wrote:


Difference being that a turn based game wouldn't make a difference what your mechanics were, since you had all the time in the world to pull off what you needed to do. Mechanics are an aspect of RTS games only.



Yes, yes he should. He lacks the mechanics to perform what's needed, which is the skill part of the game.

It's like saying that people in CS if they work together to surround someone and he scores 4 head shots on all of them because he's godly at aiming is unfair.

On April 04 2011 19:52 Ethic wrote:
Get overlord speed, Lair tech is not hard to get to and if you're build orders are fleshed out you can get Overlord speed by 6-7 minute mark.

If you're too much of a cheap ass to get Overlord speed get a Overseer, but tbh, you're better off getting overlord speed.

On April 04 2011 20:48 Thrombozyt wrote:


I think we are talking about different stuff. In SC2 in it's current incarnation he will lose and probably also should lose because that's the way the game is. But you you have the choice of a starcraft game where mechanics do not limit you or a game where you need mechanics, would you prefer the later? Because my comments are about what the game should be in response to 5unrise's comment about how the game should have more mechanical barriers so that players can compensate poor decisions by better mechanics.

On April 04 2011 20:48 Thrombozyt wrote:
I think we are talking about different stuff. In SC2 in it's current incarnation he will lose and probably also should lose because that's the way the game is. But you you have the choice of a starcraft game where mechanics do not limit you or a game where you need mechanics, would you prefer the later? Because my comments are about what the game should be in response to 5unrise's comment about how the game should have more mechanical barriers so that players can compensate poor decisions by better mechanics.

On April 04 2011 20:50 Ichobicho wrote:
Losing when you constantly check the ramp and can't get OL to scout in time(~5:00-30 minutes), but still not being able to figure out what the T/P is doing and then he moves out and steamrolls you. That is the worst way to loose, and it happens a lot.

On April 04 2011 21:05 Dalavita wrote:


Please. You can spot a potential 4gate way before your worker gets killed off. 1 gas? cyber after gateway? Stalker as the second unit produced? Saved up chrono boosts for the cyber?

It's probably a 4gate. Hell, zergs have the additional advantage where they can grab an extractor to either force a build, or delay the death of their drone and get additional scouting.

On April 04 2011 21:05 Dalavita wrote:


I would definitively take the game that requires good mechanics and has the strategical depth over one that only requires strategy to pull off.

Seeing MKP pull off a marine split against mass banes while sniping overlord drops and doing multi pronged attacks with medivacs is impressive because you know how hard it is to pull off, on top of it being a strategical genius play. Also, players who develop excellent mechanics also open up new strategic play because of what they can do with their units. Just like SC1 was an impressive game because it was hard to pull off, on top of people doing genius plays, SC2 follows in its footsteps.

The mechanics are simplified enough that I don't think anyone could complain about them.



Please. You can spot a potential 4gate way before your worker gets killed off. 1 gas? cyber after gateway? Stalker as the second unit produced? Saved up chrono boosts for the cyber?

It's probably a 4gate. Hell, zergs have the additional advantage where they can grab an extractor to either force a build, or delay the death of their drone and get additional scouting.

On April 04 2011 20:50 leadphyc wrote:
dont worry zergs always six pool me and i scout them last and it kills me on the big maps. its really not fair i feel the big maps invite so much more cheese than the other ones just because of how long it takes to scout.