On March 19 2011 06:49 hmunkey wrote: Why is djWheat up there? He's a great guy and all but his opinion on the game means less than mine does, and mine is pretty useless to begin with.
Wuh?
Because your average TLer knows who djWheat is, whereas your average TLer has no idea who you or I are. It isn't about value of opinion, it's about the popularity of the individual.
Something like how having the President of the US's opinion on who is going to win up there would be super badass, even though the President of the US probably knows jack squat about SC2.
On March 19 2011 04:58 HowSoOnIsNow wrote: Have no idea why AriseN flammes that much. Weird. Each time a foreigner is criticize for their comments, he comes in and defend them for the life of his. Are you even a TT1 fan? Seriously?
Is July the best Zerg out there? Not yet. Even if he wins against MC, he`s not the best in my book still. IMLosirA, IMNeastea and Dongrae are better in my mind. Is July a better Zerg than IdrA, in terms of achievement in Korea, yeah. Is July a better player than TT1? I wouldn't understand how can one argue against that. TT1 is still an amateur. He got talent, but still an amateur. I``m not saying he has no chance of becoming Pro,mostly if the north American scene expands, but the guy has to check himself before he wreck himself.
When i was 16, i`d use such qualifiers when i wanted to emit an opinion, problem is that he`s not 16. No one with an once of professionalism would say that July sucks. There`s no respect amongst the self called pros, that`s not cool at all.
This pretty much sums it up.
Hope we can stop the arguing now. I wish we had Pro Picks from Korea like last time so people would see the huge attitude difference, it's so much better when people recognize skill and give credit where credit's due.
And again, you can see the difference in between the Korean PROS who act professionally and construct interesting opinions on the match instead of insipid and uninspired one liners about the said player. I`d like to have TT1 tell that to July`s face. Because, at least in Boxing, they do just that.They don`t hide behind their internet stature. But you know what, he wouldn't have the guts to say that, he'd change his whole stance if he' be in front of him.
Again i don't want to sound like him hating on the guy, because i'm always glad when a fellow Canadian do well in the SC world, but i can't agree with his attitude. You got to keep things real.
Yeah Koreans would never say something like that, unless I'm forgetting something...
Oh yeah, mc said his first round in tsl wasn't a good player!
MC is like i said, entitled to his cockiness, and i doubt he had knowledge of who Ciarra is, he probably got the information from someone else. That's why i refrain from bashing Idra. Also, because, more often than not, IdrA is wrong on players credential.
The main components of my tirade stands still, when you are not a World beater, you keep it on the low and you show that you are the better men with results. Saying otherwise does not promote sportsmanship, and if you want to duke it out, tell the guy in his face, if not, don't act like a bitch hiding behind your computer.
I don't want a scene where everything is serious to the point of being character less, but it's hard to take one seriously when one's making such harsh statements about a GSL finalist. It's also funny that people shits on Rain, because, he might not be the best of the best, but he's back to Code S, something that quite alot of the guys you revere wouldn't be able to achieve.
Like the guys on SoTG saying that NaDa and July matches were horrible,next thing you know, the writers on TL rated it as 4.5 out of 5. There's artificial standards set by people in the community. You can take Tyler for example, he doesn't like how July plays, and that's alright, but I've never heard him say that July just plainly sucks.
Basically, I'm not here to defend July just because he's July or whatever, and I'm not against the critics to his play style, but I'm against that artificial standard created by a few. I'm also against players detrimental to others just because of stylistical differences.
And my dude, if you don't like that, it's of no consequence to me.
People shit on rain because hes not fancy or special, he just plays well. He doesnt stand out in any way besides being a solid player. He doesn't mass marines or have perfect control or play sc2 as a gorilla foreigner like other S class terrans do.
Nada vs July matches were terrible. I dont understand how players of that caliber cant scout baneling busts, it makes me sad. Nada is much better than that. I am excited that july got as far as he did, but him vs MC isnt going to be close.
Because common sense is the solid macro zerg never baneling bust a barrack wall. A solid macro zerg defaults to pumping drones to attempt to catch up after a failed baneling bust. A solid macro zerg plays defensive all game until he is on 7 bases tech switiching to 5 different units after every wave. A solid macro zerg play defensive and drone until last sec after the terran finished siegeing. A solid macro zerg is idra who is like top 16 material.
Means they still suck.. Balance would have 8 in top 20 not 2-3.
Those rankings shouldn't say much considering you have players on there that proved to be not cut out for Code S or A like Makaprime ( sitting on the 10th spot ).
Use whatever stats you like GSL wins, tounament wins. win % etc protoss come up short.
Is this a joke? They are so far ahead of zerg in tournament wins. And in recent wins, then are ahead of terran. Even if they are the most played race, they are far above their % in wins
Unless you can provide the links which show the statistics which you're claiming to have knowledge of, your opinion is not valid, and said with undue confidence.
Look at who makes up the majority of the wins for Protoss, it is either MC, San or HongUn, clearly the better Protoss players out of the 9 Protoss who have made it into Code S this season (compared to the 15 Terran).
And not a single Terran who has amazing TvP (Nada, Top - only one game vs HongUn but he self proclaims himself that he can beat ANY protoss, Rainbow) has vs'd a Protoss
Yeah Terran are so awful!
and:
The fact that Protoss are fewer in number than Terran are affects the statistic as well because, you must consider someone like MC. If there are 10 Protoss, and 30 Terran in the GSL (in a 64 player format)(not accurate), imagine if every single Protoss got 2-1'd by Terrans except for the best three, (we'll use MC, Anypro, and San for this as they were the Protoss that got the farthest this season) who all 2-1 Terran opponents. The stats going into the Ro32 would be PvT: 13-17 with 3 Protoss left and 27 Terrans (extreme of course, this example is only being used to illustrate the effect that disproportionate numbers has on stats, and Zergs are irrelevant). Now MC, San, and Anypro are Terran killers, imagine they all 2-0, and the other Terrans face each other, and the remaining Zergs and such. Now, PvT is at 19-17 :O big difference. Now we reach round 16, with 3 Protoss, and 13 Terrans. Of course, MC 2-0's but San and Anypro only 2-1, as they are facing increasingly difficult opponents. Now PvT is at 25-19. Pass the Ro8, similar results, a 2-0 and two 2-1's. PvT is at 31-21. Now we are in the Semi's, and two Protosses face, one wins, and one loses, but this does not affect PvT at all. On the other side, San, is up against the best Terran still left in the GSL (because he's the only one :p). Even if San gets 3-0'd and then this Terran God 4-0's MC in the Finals, guess PvT is at? 31-28 still Protoss favored. But this Terran God was never in the Semi's (July), it was a Zerg, no Terran to redeem his race's stats like FD did in Season 1, and NesTea did, and MC did. And that, of course, is an EXTREME example, but it is only to show the effect of a minority race having 3 very good players go through the majority race to get to the Semi-Finals, which happened (3 Protoss in the Semi's).
Now you may say that 3 Protoss in the Semi's automatically shows that Protoss is "imba" "OP" or "favored", but lets look back at the previous GSLs, in which stats indicate that Zerg was favored over Terran. 3 Terrans in GSL 1 Semi finals. 3 Terrans in GSL 2 Semi-finals. 2 Terrans in GSL 3 Finals. 3 Terrans in GSL 4 Semi-Finals. BUT, ZERG IS FAVORED IN THOSE SEASONS, TvZ: 48.2%!!!!!!!!!!!
Why? Because people like Fruitdealer and NesTea carved their way through dozens of Terrans, where as the Terrans were only able to take out a few Zergs, as there were less to kill.
One last thing, Look at GSL 3, nobody was complaining Protoss was IMBA back then, even though PvT was at 62.5%.. It was because of a single very skilled player racked up a ton of wins versus Terrans, MC, which can be equated to this season when Three very skilled players racked up a ton of wins versus the bountiful Terrans, San, Anypro, and MC.
Means they still suck.. Balance would have 8 in top 20 not 2-3.
Those rankings shouldn't say much considering you have players on there that proved to be not cut out for Code S or A like Makaprime ( sitting on the 10th spot ).
Use whatever stats you like GSL wins, tounament wins. win % etc protoss come up short.
Is this a joke? They are so far ahead of zerg in tournament wins. And in recent wins, then are ahead of terran. Even if they are the most played race, they are far above their % in wins
And who are you referring to as the most played race? You mean least played race right? If so, I adress this in my wall of text above
looks like it's all about MC and rightfully so, protoss is really strong right now I can't say if it's a balance issue or if protoss is starting to be figured out but it's clear that right now, they are strong as hell.
Here's to hoping July takes it and shows us all how to win ZvP!
On March 19 2011 06:49 hmunkey wrote: Why is djWheat up there? He's a great guy and all but his opinion on the game means less than mine does, and mine is pretty useless to begin with.
Wuh?
Because your average TLer knows who djWheat is, whereas your average TLer has no idea who you or I are. It isn't about value of opinion, it's about the popularity of the individual.
Something like how having the President of the US's opinion on who is going to win up there would be super badass, even though the President of the US probably knows jack squat about SC2.
Except the title of the thread is "pros pick" so your point is completely invalid. Reading can be hard at times, but sometimes it's important to make the effort before posting.
On March 19 2011 13:50 emc wrote: looks like it's all about MC and rightfully so, protoss is really strong right now I can't say if it's a balance issue or if protoss is starting to be figured out but it's clear that right now, they are strong as hell.
Here's to hoping July takes it and shows us all how to win ZvP!
I feel that protoss found a way to play and Terran are still struggling. Terran players really got used to MMM and I haven't really seen any other play except for Jinro vs MC, which I will never forget.
On March 19 2011 06:49 hmunkey wrote: Why is djWheat up there? He's a great guy and all but his opinion on the game means less than mine does, and mine is pretty useless to begin with.
Wuh?
Because your average TLer knows who djWheat is, whereas your average TLer has no idea who you or I are. It isn't about value of opinion, it's about the popularity of the individual.
Something like how having the President of the US's opinion on who is going to win up there would be super badass, even though the President of the US probably knows jack squat about SC2.
Except the title of the thread is "pros pick" so your point is completely invalid. Reading can be hard at times, but sometimes it's important to make the effort before posting.
Wheat is a Professional Caster and a damn good one at that. Notice the title is "pros pick" not "pro players pick"?
On March 19 2011 06:49 hmunkey wrote: Why is djWheat up there? He's a great guy and all but his opinion on the game means less than mine does, and mine is pretty useless to begin with.
Wuh?
Because your average TLer knows who djWheat is, whereas your average TLer has no idea who you or I are. It isn't about value of opinion, it's about the popularity of the individual.
Something like how having the President of the US's opinion on who is going to win up there would be super badass, even though the President of the US probably knows jack squat about SC2.
Except the title of the thread is "pros pick" so your point is completely invalid. Reading can be hard at times, but sometimes it's important to make the effort before posting.
Wheat is a Professional Caster and a damn good one at that. Notice the title is "pros pick" not "pro players pick"?
Yea im a professional spectator so yea my opinion should be up there
July will win. he's too old for this "make it to the finals but don't win" shit. he's done with that child's play. you think a young buck like MC is going to take the title from July? think again. it's like trying to have a fist fight with your old man. for some reason it just never ends well for you
On March 19 2011 04:58 HowSoOnIsNow wrote: Have no idea why AriseN flammes that much. Weird. Each time a foreigner is criticize for their comments, he comes in and defend them for the life of his. Are you even a TT1 fan? Seriously?
Is July the best Zerg out there? Not yet. Even if he wins against MC, he`s not the best in my book still. IMLosirA, IMNeastea and Dongrae are better in my mind. Is July a better Zerg than IdrA, in terms of achievement in Korea, yeah. Is July a better player than TT1? I wouldn't understand how can one argue against that. TT1 is still an amateur. He got talent, but still an amateur. I``m not saying he has no chance of becoming Pro,mostly if the north American scene expands, but the guy has to check himself before he wreck himself.
When i was 16, i`d use such qualifiers when i wanted to emit an opinion, problem is that he`s not 16. No one with an once of professionalism would say that July sucks. There`s no respect amongst the self called pros, that`s not cool at all.
This pretty much sums it up.
Hope we can stop the arguing now. I wish we had Pro Picks from Korea like last time so people would see the huge attitude difference, it's so much better when people recognize skill and give credit where credit's due.
And again, you can see the difference in between the Korean PROS who act professionally and construct interesting opinions on the match instead of insipid and uninspired one liners about the said player. I`d like to have TT1 tell that to July`s face. Because, at least in Boxing, they do just that.They don`t hide behind their internet stature. But you know what, he wouldn't have the guts to say that, he'd change his whole stance if he' be in front of him.
Again i don't want to sound like him hating on the guy, because i'm always glad when a fellow Canadian do well in the SC world, but i can't agree with his attitude. You got to keep things real.
Yeah Koreans would never say something like that, unless I'm forgetting something...
Oh yeah, mc said his first round in tsl wasn't a good player!
MC is like i said, entitled to his cockiness, and i doubt he had knowledge of who Ciarra is, he probably got the information from someone else. That's why i refrain from bashing Idra. Also, because, more often than not, IdrA is wrong on players credential.
The main components of my tirade stands still, when you are not a World beater, you keep it on the low and you show that you are the better men with results. Saying otherwise does not promote sportsmanship, and if you want to duke it out, tell the guy in his face, if not, don't act like a bitch hiding behind your computer.
I don't want a scene where everything is serious to the point of being character less, but it's hard to take one seriously when one's making such harsh statements about a GSL finalist. It's also funny that people shits on Rain, because, he might not be the best of the best, but he's back to Code S, something that quite alot of the guys you revere wouldn't be able to achieve.
Like the guys on SoTG saying that NaDa and July matches were horrible,next thing you know, the writers on TL rated it as 4.5 out of 5. There's artificial standards set by people in the community. You can take Tyler for example, he doesn't like how July plays, and that's alright, but I've never heard him say that July just plainly sucks.
Basically, I'm not here to defend July just because he's July or whatever, and I'm not against the critics to his play style, but I'm against that artificial standard created by a few. I'm also against players detrimental to others just because of stylistical differences.
And my dude, if you don't like that, it's of no consequence to me.
People shit on rain because hes not fancy or special, he just plays well. He doesnt stand out in any way besides being a solid player. He doesn't mass marines or have perfect control or play sc2 as a gorilla foreigner like other S class terrans do.
Nada vs July matches were terrible. I dont understand how players of that caliber cant scout baneling busts, it makes me sad. Nada is much better than that. I am excited that july got as far as he did, but him vs MC isnt going to be close.
People shit on Rain because he cheesed Nestea (in the cheesiest GSL to date, no less) and got into the finals. He's been okay since then. Not great, but no one would we rag on him except for that match. The way Hyperdub is kind of meh.
On March 19 2011 05:22 Jager wrote: I don't see how idra can get away with calling people bad. People can get better at SC2, he will always be an ugly skinny geek.
No need to insult his RL appearance.
It's just sad he feels the need to take credit away from two players that are obviously very good. I hope in time he'll just fade away.
He practices like two hours a day, right? As people get good at SC2 (as opposed to carryover skill from BW), he'll be a B-lister again. Whoever wins, the forum will be complaining that guy's race is imba and he was a bad player, and Idra is a big help to that line of thinking. Alas and alack.
On March 19 2011 06:13 FakeBoxeR wrote: is it bad when over half the responses are "because he plays protoss" ?
See what I mean? It doesn't matter who's better to a lot of people. Just what races are selected.
For my own pick, I placed my Liquibet on July. How has MC been practicing against a Zerg like July? There are no Zergs like him on oGs/Liquid. Whatever July is planning, MC is most certainly not practicing against it. I keep hearing that zerg is the reactive race, and July is the only Z I've seen who's great at reacting. MC can't deal with surprises very well. Look how he fell apart to Jinro in GSL 4, when Jinro surprised him with Mech.
Either way, I expect the games will be fun, and at least one game will be totally one-sided, with one player looking like a Bronze (July does something insane. Who looks like a Bronze depends if MC handles it properly).
On March 19 2011 06:49 hmunkey wrote: Why is djWheat up there? He's a great guy and all but his opinion on the game means less than mine does, and mine is pretty useless to begin with.
Wuh?
Because your average TLer knows who djWheat is, whereas your average TLer has no idea who you or I are. It isn't about value of opinion, it's about the popularity of the individual.
Something like how having the President of the US's opinion on who is going to win up there would be super badass, even though the President of the US probably knows jack squat about SC2.
Except the title of the thread is "pros pick" so your point is completely invalid. Reading can be hard at times, but sometimes it's important to make the effort before posting.
Wheat is a Professional Caster and a damn good one at that. Notice the title is "pros pick" not "pro players pick"?
Yea im a professional spectator so yea my opinion should be up there
I am a professional taxi driver, can i be up there ??
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/SonuvBob/ss/bisu_o_face.jpg)
