I saw a post earlier about a Pros Pick feature for the upcoming GSL finals. As an MMA fan I read the ones Sherdog does all the time, and when I was running my MMA site did them also for a time.
So since I know most of the pros, I sort of thought it would be cool to collect their opinions!
So I asked "Who do you think will win (July or MC) and why?", and here's what I got (will be updating as I get more replies):
Attero
MC because he never lets his opponent take the advantage
Axslav
MC, good early game micro and july plays aggresive
Bad
MC, Protoss
bLuR
MC! Cause protoss is extremely strong vs Z, and MC is amazing at taking advantage of every mistake his opponent makes.
desRow
It is a very close call. I've been loving how july plays lately and agressive zergs are the most scary one. However, I need to support my protoss brother and I think MC has a great BW background and is very talented at SC2 so I believe he will beat july. Just like he did in Season 3
djWHEAT
July. Cause he inspires me! July Zerg has a style that makes me excited as a Zerg player... So regardless of the outcome I expect awesome games!
Future
MC, he had been dominating lately and after seeing the last time they clashed it is clear MC is in a different league the July. Maybe in the future July will be ready but MC takes the series this time.
Jinro
MC, its PvZ between best player in the world and a huge underdog. PvZ is hard enough as it is without having to play the far and away best player in sc2
KawaiiRice
MC - he plays Protoss
KiWiKaKi
MC probably, cause he abuse like no one else
IdrA
mc julys bad mcs protoss
iNcontroL
MC cause he is better
iNkA
mc cus he a boss
Machine
MC, because hes Protoss
Masq
MC isn't going to lose to any bust, which seems to be julys strongpoint If July can catch MC offguard with something sneaky, he can win. But MC is going to expect it and have forcefield ready I think
Ret
MC because he's a boss
Rookie (formerly ReachTheSky)
I think that July will win some unorthodox aggression, MC won't be ready for it
Ryze
I pick MC to win, I think he is going to have a more confident mental state against july going into the match given his previous wins. This will allow him to play more comfortably on stage and I expect to see him play at his potential when they face off, & I dont think july can handle MC playing at his best
Stalife
MC b/c he's perfect, and also protoss is OP atm
Sheth
MC. too good of solid style
SLush
MC. More experience and worst MU for july, and its a bo7 so less luck
ThisIsJimmy
July because hes a golden mouse winner and hes old school , and i want him to win, therefore he will win ! Also, its torches team so you gotta root for him.p.
TT1
MC. Cus hes imba, and july sux and mc is an abuser.
Whiplash
MC,hes 2-0 on julyzerg.and he plays in a style that can handle julyzerg's hyperaggressiveness. I anticipate it will go 3-1 for MC, and 90% that july 6 pools game 1
Zelniq
It will be close, but July's aggressive style will overall hurt him a bit more than it will help. MC will take the series 4-3, but it will be a close final game.
This GSL's finals is truly a win win situation. We could have our first 2 time GSL champion, or we can have a BW legend take what is currently the most prestigious tournament in SC2.
To be honest, if it were any other protoss then MC I'd give July a small advantage, but MC has such amazing control. If July is going to play his game, he's going to need to make whatever aggression he puts out work. I think if July doesn't make big splashes when he takes any chances, he will auto loose vs the consistency of MC's play.
It'll be close, but MC is too ruthless. He never goes for anything wacky or any longshots, just picks the tactics most likely to outright kill his opponent and executes them perfectly.
I'm expecting MC, but if Stork v Fantasy taught me anything, it's that whenever you do a "pro's choice" thing, it always ends up kicking you in the ass later.
lolol loved how like quite a few of the comments were "mc because he's protoss".
But I do think MC will win. I don't see July's aggressiveness working as well but we shall see ^_^
Also who's bad? Never heard of him but you said you got from pro's while I don't think some of them are pro's just wondering who bad is never heard of him
Lol, wow the pros really think that mc will win just because he's protoss? hahahaha. Seriously it's ok to admit that mc is good not just because of his race.
So childish of pros constantly slipping in balance comments. MC being favoured has nothing to do with being protoss, he's the best player in the damn world.
On March 18 2011 13:13 ALang wrote: So childish of pros constantly slipping in balance comments. MC being favoured has nothing to do with being protoss, he's the best player in the damn world.
On March 18 2011 13:13 ALang wrote: So childish of pros constantly slipping in balance comments. MC being favoured has nothing to do with being protoss, he's the best player in the damn world.
No need to assume balance comments.
Maybe they just meant "protoss" with the context of being against July, who's never really shown any good results against protoss.
For some reason, I have a feeling that MC is going to be overly reactive to July's style.
MC is going to be thinking so many different options, especially in the first game. If July, one way or the other takes the first round, I think July will re-live the OSL Finals vs Best.
Maybe MC will be very aggressive to put July in an uncomfortable position. I believe this may provide chances to July due to risk it involves as a Protoss who takes the fight to the zerg's base (much criticized HuK's vZerg style; watch/listen SotG for reference).
In conclusion, even though things may seem in MC's favor, the strong characteristics of July will lead MC to "over-preparation" or "aggression" that will lead to July's first GSL title.
On March 18 2011 13:17 cive wrote: For some reason, I have a feeling that MC is going to be overly reactive to July's style.
MC is going to be thinking so many different options, especially in the first game. If July, one way or the other takes the first round, I think July will re-live the OSL Finals vs Best.
Maybe MC will be very aggressive to put July in an uncomfortable position. I believe this may provide chances to July due to risk it involves as a Protoss who takes the fight to the zerg's base (much criticized HuK's vZerg style; watch/listen SotG for reference).
In conclusion, even though things may seem in MC's favor, the strong characteristics of July will lead MC to "over-preparation" or "aggression" that will lead to July's first GSL title.
I don't think MC is the type to overestimate his opponent. If anything, he'll be overconfident.
MC is just a fucking scary guy to okay, Hes overconfident of himself and thats because hes the fucking best and plays almost flawless. Hes very hard to stop and you never can count on MC making mistakes if you play him. I would try to cheese my ass off as july or try some crazy shit. He wont win a macro game vs the Kratos Protoss.
Ridiculous that everyone complains about Protoss. Its MC, who destroys. He would do that as a Terran aswell.
My brain says MC, my gut says July. Just something about this season like the first GSL with Fruitdealer. July's got momentum and think he'll pull it through.
On March 18 2011 13:30 affliction wrote: MC is just a fucking scary guy to okay, Hes overconfident of himself and thats because hes the fucking best and plays almost flawless. Hes very hard to stop and you never can count on MC making mistakes if you play him. I would try to cheese my ass off as july or try some crazy shit. He wont win a macro game vs the Kratos Protoss.
Ridiculous that everyone complains about Protoss. Its MC, who destroys. He would do that as a Terran aswell.
But not zerg?! lololol
No one's complaining, they're just saying protoss is strong, and the ZvP matchup is probably the hardest matchup in the game right now (besides maybe PvP), there's no denying that the protoss has an advantage over zerg in the firstplace, and when you factor in how the players play, July's screwed.
Good to see IdrA thinks July is terrible but is somehow in the GSL finals. I'm sure if it was his ass in the seat I'd be proclaiming himself best Zerg in the universe.
I truly think this will be a very lopsided finals. July may manage to win one game, but he is really not on MC's level. ZvP is pretty hard to win when you're outclassed; July's style is much better suited for the other two matchups.
i'd love to see july win just to bring down some of mc's obscene cockiness/arrogance, but i truly dont see it happening. will be rooting for july but i seriously think mc is going to take it 4-0 or 4-1. another anticlimactic finals i think T.T
I don't think the solution to ZvP is going to be found in early corruptors....just sayin, strangely enough protoss doesn't rely on opening phoenix/voids a lot, and their pylons don't fly ^^
On March 18 2011 12:54 L3g3nd_ wrote: Lol @ zergs complaining about toss.
"MC, Protoss."
MC, Because hes Protoss"
Zergs? About half of the people claiming Toss is OP were Terran or Toss.
3/4 were zerg, 1 was terran. Jinro acknowledged that ZvP is a really hard matchup, so we could say 3/5's were zerg.
None of them said Protoss was overpowered, by the way, they just said he plays protoss. Take from that what you will, but as a zerg, I just take it as..."damn, ZvP sucks"
Back in BW if you didn't know anything about the players and knew both were good, you pretty much had to give the win to zerg in ZvP, because zerg was just better at that matchup. It's not like it's unwinnable or anything, it just favors the protoss at this point in time.
MC probably going to humiliate the Golden mouse winner and God of War, however I laughed at kiwikaki's comment of him abusing, when kiwikaki can barely hold down his macro. Guy abusing a unique build for a map after another, when he does well in a tournament from actually playing solid give me a call
Where is the professionalism idra? Do you really need to downtalk other players/self promote when everyone already knows you're a good player? Do you have to talk about race everywhere you go? You're no different to CombatEX. It's really sad.
Other than that it I think MC will take it convincingly 4-1/4-2 :D
On March 18 2011 13:40 Tenks wrote: Good to see IdrA thinks July is terrible but is somehow in the GSL finals. I'm sure if it was his ass in the seat I'd be proclaiming himself best Zerg in the universe.
Yeah this mentality is starting to get really annoying. Idra dismisses July cause hes an aggressive Zerg, which he finds to be gimmicky. However the new GSL maps make it very easy for Terran / Toss to get enough resources to support a nearly unkillable army. If you play a defensive style. So Zergs only option is to be aggressive, making good trades preventing the ultimate composition.
Not saying July is playing optimally, in fact i think he'll loose to MC. However i feel once Zergs learn to play aggressive but in a more refined way, than July is playing right now. It will be seen as the right way to play Zerg.
Really, why should the Zerg late game army be able to stand and fight with Terran or Toss late game army? Characteristically it shouldn't be able to.
I remember when july was playing best in the OSL finals after Best had just been beasting and July totally Mindfucked him. However, BW was balanced. In sc2 i don't think july has much of a chance unless he gets inside mc's head and makes him crack.
On March 18 2011 14:03 cozzE wrote: IdrA: "mc julys bad mcs protoss"
Where is the professionalism idra? Do you really need to downtalk other players/self promote when everyone already knows you're a good player? Do you have to talk about race everywhere you go? You're no different to CombatEX. It's really sad.
Other than that it I think MC will take it convincingly 4-1/4-2 :D
Yeah Idra is exactly like Combat-ex except that he doesent lie, cheat and beg to win games he lost. Noone deserves be compared to combat-ex. No one. He is a freaking disgrace.
God damn i promised that i would stop being negative after the ban but god that kid makes me angry -.-
On March 18 2011 14:07 Cyanocyst wrote: Really, why should the Zerg late game army be able to stand and fight with Terran or Toss late game army? Characteristically it shouldn't be able to.
why not? isn't the game supposed to be balanced? do you think it should be auto-win for protoss lategame?!
btw, july is gonna lose 4-0 because what I saw of his games when he played standard he committed a lot of mistakes and against MC it will be unforgiving.
Its not just the zergs complaining, everyone knows that in ZvP you have to outplay your opponent by a lot to beat them. MC being the best player in the world and including the ZvP matchup makes this hugely in his favor.
On March 18 2011 14:03 cozzE wrote: IdrA: "mc julys bad mcs protoss"
Where is the professionalism idra? Do you really need to downtalk other players/self promote when everyone already knows you're a good player? Do you have to talk about race everywhere you go? You're no different to CombatEX. It's really sad.
Other than that it I think MC will take it convincingly 4-1/4-2 :D
God, people on the boards ><
Look, Diamond asked him what his opinion on the match was, and that was it. Stuff like this is why pro players don't participate as much any more in the forums, because they're going to get shit on about every game they lost or comment they made. This is just how he feels about the match, if you wanted know what he thought, why bitch when he tells you?
idra is a dbag with his comments. always whines and thinks zerg is the reason he's not in the finals, not himself. he sticks with 1 strategy and thinks if it doesn't work, then toss and terran are imbalanced (whether it's true or not). he is the most bland and least creative gamer ever. anything not true about what i said?
SpazCraft is going to say July because I want summer up here in Canada. No but seriously I think July's Zerg play has incredibly improved and I see him coming ontop in a close series.
On March 18 2011 13:13 ALang wrote: So childish of pros constantly slipping in balance comments. MC being favoured has nothing to do with being protoss, he's the best player in the damn world.
On March 18 2011 14:03 cozzE wrote: IdrA: "mc julys bad mcs protoss"
Where is the professionalism idra? Do you really need to downtalk other players/self promote when everyone already knows you're a good player? Do you have to talk about race everywhere you go? You're no different to CombatEX. It's really sad.
Other than that it I think MC will take it convincingly 4-1/4-2 :D
God, people on the boards ><
Look, Diamond asked him what his opinion on the match was, and that was it. Stuff like this is why pro players don't participate as much any more in the forums, because they're going to get shit on about every game they lost or comment they made. This is just how he feels about the match, if you wanted know what he thought, why bitch when he tells you?
Because he's the only one that speaks his opinions in a ridiculously rude way? It's fine to have opinions and to speak your mind, but not at the offense of someone else. I do think overall Idra is more solid in sc2 so far, but he's no where near as accomplished as July is overall (bw and sc2 combined). Not the right place to trash talk.
On March 18 2011 14:19 GhostKorean wrote: Is Protoss really considered imbalanced right now? First time I've heard this
Im not sure about PvT but ZvP is incredibly hard for the zerg. The protoss can play passively until he gets a third and its incredibly hard for zerg to deal with that. The zerg basically has to outplay the protoss to win if the protoss has 3 or more bases
When a zerg succeed, you will always hear Idra bitching about it (hi Nestea). I bet he thinks Moon is bad too even if he outclassed him in IEM. But July is in the final and you not, sorry Idra.
On March 18 2011 14:19 akalarry wrote: idra is a dbag with his comments. always whines and thinks zerg is the reason he's not in the finals, not himself. he sticks with 1 strategy and thinks if it doesn't work, then toss and terran are imbalanced. he is the most bland and least creative gamer ever. anything not true about what i said?
july reaction on reading idra's comments
You're right, Idra definitely is bad for not making the finals this season.... sigh.
It's pretty funny that people are blowing up over what Idra said, when I consider Jinro to have said the exact same thing.
julys bad = huge underdog mcs protoss = its PvZ.... PvZ is hard enough as it is..
On March 18 2011 14:19 akalarry wrote: idra is a dbag with his comments. always whines and thinks zerg is the reason he's not in the finals, not himself. he sticks with 1 strategy and thinks if it doesn't work, then toss and terran are imbalanced. he is the most bland and least creative gamer ever. anything not true about what i said?
july reaction on reading idra's comments
You're right, Idra definitely is bad for not making the finals this season.... sigh.
It's pretty funny that people are blowing up over what Idra said, when I consider Jinro to have said the exact same thing.
julys bad = huge underdog mcs protoss = its PvZ.... PvZ is hard enough as it is..
Looks identical to me.
Jinro is not insulting a legend directly. He's using positive comments about MC to make it seem MC will dominate july, whereas Idra is using negative comments about July to say the same thing. One way is more subtle and less rude.
On March 18 2011 14:03 cozzE wrote: IdrA: "mc julys bad mcs protoss"
Where is the professionalism idra? Do you really need to downtalk other players/self promote when everyone already knows you're a good player? Do you have to talk about race everywhere you go? You're no different to CombatEX. It's really sad.
Other than that it I think MC will take it convincingly 4-1/4-2 :D
God, people on the boards ><
Look, Diamond asked him what his opinion on the match was, and that was it. Stuff like this is why pro players don't participate as much any more in the forums, because they're going to get shit on about every game they lost or comment they made. This is just how he feels about the match, if you wanted know what he thought, why bitch when he tells you?
QFT. People really need to stop putting players on such a presidential like pedestal and expect politically correct answers all the time. Comments like the above will only distance the pros from the fans.
On March 18 2011 14:19 akalarry wrote: idra is a dbag with his comments. always whines and thinks zerg is the reason he's not in the finals, not himself. he sticks with 1 strategy and thinks if it doesn't work, then toss and terran are imbalanced. he is the most bland and least creative gamer ever. anything not true about what i said?
july reaction on reading idra's comments
You're right, Idra definitely is bad for not making the finals this season.... sigh.
It's pretty funny that people are blowing up over what Idra said, when I consider Jinro to have said the exact same thing.
julys bad = huge underdog mcs protoss = its PvZ.... PvZ is hard enough as it is..
Looks identical to me.
Jinro is not insulting a legend directly.
So calling someone a "huge underdog" isn't insulting? Seems pretty insulting to me.
On March 18 2011 14:19 akalarry wrote: idra is a dbag with his comments. always whines and thinks zerg is the reason he's not in the finals, not himself. he sticks with 1 strategy and thinks if it doesn't work, then toss and terran are imbalanced. he is the most bland and least creative gamer ever. anything not true about what i said?
july reaction on reading idra's comments
You're right, Idra definitely is bad for not making the finals this season.... sigh.
It's pretty funny that people are blowing up over what Idra said, when I consider Jinro to have said the exact same thing.
julys bad = huge underdog mcs protoss = its PvZ.... PvZ is hard enough as it is..
Looks identical to me.
calling someone a huge underdog means they are bad? LOL
idra is just jealous of any zerg that performs better than him. fact.
On March 18 2011 14:03 cozzE wrote: IdrA: "mc julys bad mcs protoss"
Where is the professionalism idra? Do you really need to downtalk other players/self promote when everyone already knows you're a good player? Do you have to talk about race everywhere you go? You're no different to CombatEX. It's really sad.
Other than that it I think MC will take it convincingly 4-1/4-2 :D
God, people on the boards ><
Look, Diamond asked him what his opinion on the match was, and that was it. Stuff like this is why pro players don't participate as much any more in the forums, because they're going to get shit on about every game they lost or comment they made. This is just how he feels about the match, if you wanted know what he thought, why bitch when he tells you?
Because he's the only one that speaks his opinions in a ridiculously rude way? It's fine to have opinions and to speak your mind, but not at the offense of someone else. I do think overall Idra is more solid in sc2 so far, but he's no where near as accomplished as July is overall (bw and sc2 combined). Not the right place to trash talk.
If you don't agree, that's fine, but don't shit on idra because he did exactly what someone asked. Say you disagree for X reason and move on, not that hard. If you know his remarks make you mad or whatever, don't read them! There's absolutely no reason to come onto the boards and leave snide remarks about any pro for some opinion they have. Why are they going to keep contributing to a monthly feature like this if this is what they're going to get back?
On March 18 2011 14:03 cozzE wrote: IdrA: "mc julys bad mcs protoss"
Where is the professionalism idra? Do you really need to downtalk other players/self promote when everyone already knows you're a good player? Do you have to talk about race everywhere you go? You're no different to CombatEX. It's really sad.
Other than that it I think MC will take it convincingly 4-1/4-2 :D
God, people on the boards ><
Look, Diamond asked him what his opinion on the match was, and that was it. Stuff like this is why pro players don't participate as much any more in the forums, because they're going to get shit on about every game they lost or comment they made. This is just how he feels about the match, if you wanted know what he thought, why bitch when he tells you?
Because he's the only one that speaks his opinions in a ridiculously rude way? It's fine to have opinions and to speak your mind, but not at the offense of someone else. I do think overall Idra is more solid in sc2 so far, but he's no where near as accomplished as July is overall (bw and sc2 combined). Not the right place to trash talk.
Did you even read through the comments? There were plenty of other people who said things similar to that, I don't know why you need to single him out.
MC. Cus hes imba, and july sux and mc is an abuser.
I think people should be entitled to their opinions, and I'm not sure why everyone is clamoring for this "professionalism" now-a-days anyways. I'm also not sure who his opinion is supposed to be offending, I mean really...
On-topic: For a second i read this as who will win TSL, and I was thinking: "Why are they all giving up already!", but then I realized it said GSL, and not TSL -.- . Will be really interesting to see the finals, and amazing if there is an awesome July upset. :p
On March 18 2011 14:03 cozzE wrote: IdrA: "mc julys bad mcs protoss"
Where is the professionalism idra? Do you really need to downtalk other players/self promote when everyone already knows you're a good player? Do you have to talk about race everywhere you go? You're no different to CombatEX. It's really sad.
Other than that it I think MC will take it convincingly 4-1/4-2 :D
God, people on the boards ><
Look, Diamond asked him what his opinion on the match was, and that was it. Stuff like this is why pro players don't participate as much any more in the forums, because they're going to get shit on about every game they lost or comment they made. This is just how he feels about the match, if you wanted know what he thought, why bitch when he tells you?
Because he's the only one that speaks his opinions in a ridiculously rude way? It's fine to have opinions and to speak your mind, but not at the offense of someone else. I do think overall Idra is more solid in sc2 so far, but he's no where near as accomplished as July is overall (bw and sc2 combined). Not the right place to trash talk.
If you don't agree, that's fine, but don't shit on idra because he did exactly what someone asked. Say you disagree for X reason and move on, not that hard. If you know his remarks make you mad or whatever, don't read them! There's absolutely no reason to come onto the boards and leave snide remarks about any pro for some opinion they have. Why are they going to keep contributing to a monthly feature like this if this is what they're going to get back?
Uhh, that's exactly what I did, state why I disagree for X reason. I'm simply doing the same thing Idra's doing, stating my opinion.
On March 18 2011 14:03 cozzE wrote: IdrA: "mc julys bad mcs protoss"
Where is the professionalism idra? Do you really need to downtalk other players/self promote when everyone already knows you're a good player? Do you have to talk about race everywhere you go? You're no different to CombatEX. It's really sad.
Other than that it I think MC will take it convincingly 4-1/4-2 :D
God, people on the boards ><
Look, Diamond asked him what his opinion on the match was, and that was it. Stuff like this is why pro players don't participate as much any more in the forums, because they're going to get shit on about every game they lost or comment they made. This is just how he feels about the match, if you wanted know what he thought, why bitch when he tells you?
QFT. People really need to stop putting players on such a presidential like pedestal and expect politically correct answers all the time. Comments like the above will only distance the pros from the fans.
But some players do not bother to give out an educated opinion. Some of the opinions by pros is rather disappointing by saying that a certain player is granted the GSL 1st place not because of his skill or anything, he was just playing a superior race and lucky as a result. They have a voice not because of contributing excellent strategies to TL, but because of their performance in tournaments.
Something about saying that being Protoss will win makes me completely skeptical. This is not a Soul Calibur IV Tourny where places 1-4 are Xianghua. Yes, Protoss is probably imbalanced in some way but looking at the results, it is not imbalanced enough to make the tourny completely dominated by a single race unlike Soul Cal where a single character out of about 30 dominate.
EDIT To add more, pro players that talk about a certain race being imbalanced seem to justify other players reasons for complaining. Rather than looking at their flaws in their play, they blame it on the game. God awful example.
I hate whining balance discussions as much as anyone else, and its been spreading all over the forum these days.
The pro players really aren't setting a good tone for the forums when pretty much half of them on this page are saying PvZ imba. Nothing wrong with what these people are saying, its just giving off a poor impression and letting new players think they can complain about balance because pros are doing it as well.
On March 18 2011 14:03 cozzE wrote: IdrA: "mc julys bad mcs protoss"
Where is the professionalism idra? Do you really need to downtalk other players/self promote when everyone already knows you're a good player? Do you have to talk about race everywhere you go? You're no different to CombatEX. It's really sad.
Other than that it I think MC will take it convincingly 4-1/4-2 :D
God, people on the boards ><
Look, Diamond asked him what his opinion on the match was, and that was it. Stuff like this is why pro players don't participate as much any more in the forums, because they're going to get shit on about every game they lost or comment they made. This is just how he feels about the match, if you wanted know what he thought, why bitch when he tells you?
Because he's the only one that speaks his opinions in a ridiculously rude way? It's fine to have opinions and to speak your mind, but not at the offense of someone else. I do think overall Idra is more solid in sc2 so far, but he's no where near as accomplished as July is overall (bw and sc2 combined). Not the right place to trash talk.
Did you even read through the comments? There were plenty of other people who said things similar to that, I don't know why you need to single him out.
MC. Cus hes imba, and july sux and mc is an abuser.
I think people should be entitled to their opinions, and I'm not sure why everyone is clamoring for this "professionalism" now-a-days anyways. I'm also not sure who his opinion is supposed to be offending, I mean really...
On-topic: For a second i read this as who will win TSL, and I was thinking: "Why are they all giving up already!", but then I realized it said GSL, and not TSL -.- . Will be really interesting to see the finals, and amazing if there is an awesome July upset. :p
Only similar quote is TT1s. The rest don't straight up diss July, rather they praise MC for being imba. Though both do say protoss is op. That's a similarity. If you're already forgotten, Idra gave Nestea a ton of flak, said he was horrible, and whatnot back when he won season 2. We all know how that turned out.
I love IdrA's comment. I think I've figured him out. When he's serious, he uses punctuation and capitalization, and his spelling is passable. When he is being sarcastic/bm he uses no punctuation or capitalization and he mispells things.
On March 18 2011 14:32 Irave wrote: July's aggressive play really gives him a shot at wining this I believe. This could easily be the quickest bo7 we've seen.
True. The biggest thing going for July right now is that he doesn't play like any other Zergs. It will be hard for MC to prepare for him.
It`s hilarious how TT1 said that July sucks, he`d wipe the floor with the guy. Extravagant comments in regards to the skill he has. If July sucks, so where your skills are rated at?
On March 18 2011 14:33 akalarry wrote: you don't say kobe bryant is bad, you say michael jordan is REALLY good.
if you call someone like kobe bryant bad, then clearly something is clouding your judgment
This is basically what I was saying. You don't call July bad, you call MC really really good. They don't come off the same way even though they basically mean the same thing. July isn't necessarily BAD, he's actually decently good, it's just MC is worlds ahead, that's the difference. Saying July sucks makes it sound like MC is average.
On March 18 2011 14:33 akalarry wrote: you don't say kobe bryant is bad, you say michael jordan is REALLY good.
if you call someone like kobe bryant bad, then clearly something is clouding your judgment
This is basically what I was saying. You don't call July bad, you call MC really really good. They don't come off the same way even though they basically mean the same thing. July isn't necessarily BAD, he's actually decently good, it's just MC is worlds ahead, that's the difference. Saying July sucks makes it sound like MC is average.
Sure you do. In a one versus one environment, calling person A bad is exactly the same thing as calling person B good. They aren't comparing every single person playing Starcraft 2 in the known universe to July and MC, they are just comparing July to MC. And as seen by what the the pros have said, in this matchup, July versus MC, July is bad (which is exactly the same as 'MC is good').
On March 18 2011 14:03 cozzE wrote: IdrA: "mc julys bad mcs protoss"
Where is the professionalism idra? Do you really need to downtalk other players/self promote when everyone already knows you're a good player? Do you have to talk about race everywhere you go? You're no different to CombatEX. It's really sad.
Other than that it I think MC will take it convincingly 4-1/4-2 :D
God, people on the boards ><
Look, Diamond asked him what his opinion on the match was, and that was it. Stuff like this is why pro players don't participate as much any more in the forums, because they're going to get shit on about every game they lost or comment they made. This is just how he feels about the match, if you wanted know what he thought, why bitch when he tells you?
QFT. People really need to stop putting players on such a presidential like pedestal and expect politically correct answers all the time. Comments like the above will only distance the pros from the fans.
But some players do not bother to give out an educated opinion. Some of the opinions by pros is rather disappointing by saying that a certain player is granted the GSL 1st place not because of his skill or anything, he was just playing a superior race and lucky as a result. They have a voice not because of contributing excellent strategies to TL, but because of their performance in tournaments.
They don't have to have an educated opinion. If PainUser or someone was asked and they're a huge July fanboy, they're perfectly justified in saying "I don't like MC, July will win" Don't shit on the player who's giving the opinion, disagree with the opinion. Is it really so hard to say something like
"I don't know, MC was pretty good in S3, and he's been playing pretty well, and ZvP is July's matchup, go MC!"
rather than
"fuck IdrA, he's so obnoxious!"
If he comes on the boards and reads that, do you think he's going to want to do something like this again? No, there's no reason to if all that's going to happen is people yelling at him that he's a douchebag.
On March 18 2011 14:33 akalarry wrote: you don't say kobe bryant is bad, you say michael jordan is REALLY good.
if you call someone like kobe bryant bad, then clearly something is clouding your judgment
This is basically what I was saying. You don't call July bad, you call MC really really good. They don't come off the same way even though they basically mean the same thing. July isn't necessarily BAD, he's actually decently good, it's just MC is worlds ahead, that's the difference. Saying July sucks makes it sound like MC is average.
the thing is july isn't bad at all, that's objective
so whatever idra says after can't be taken serious
On March 18 2011 14:33 akalarry wrote: you don't say kobe bryant is bad, you say michael jordan is REALLY good.
if you call someone like kobe bryant bad, then clearly something is clouding your judgment
This is basically what I was saying. You don't call July bad, you call MC really really good. They don't come off the same way even though they basically mean the same thing. July isn't necessarily BAD, he's actually decently good, it's just MC is worlds ahead, that's the difference. Saying July sucks makes it sound like MC is average.
Sure you do. In a one versus one environment, calling person A bad is exactly the same thing as calling person B good. They aren't comparing every single person playing Starcraft 2 in the known universe to July and MC, they are just comparing July to MC. And as seen by what the the pros have said, in this matchup, July versus MC, July is bad (which is exactly the same as 'MC is good').
All this balance whining is a joke. I love how it switches from TvP impossible to ZvT impossible to XvP impossible, because protoss has found out proper build orders to take advantage of the standard timings of other races. I've seen ling/baneling/corruptor into ultra wreck protoss and completely deny any third while the zerg macros up and goes ultras. Oh noez standard roach play is countered by three gate sentry expand, better do the same build the protoss build is meant to directly take advantage of over and over and whine a race that, before build orders were figured out was supposedly underpowered, is now OP. I remember when ogmsc won the GSL when everyone thought protoss wasn't OP, but now he's going to win again solely based on being protoss? Right.
I want July to win so people can shut up about balance for once. But instead they will probably attribute it to MC playing bad or something else if a Zerg wins instead of the players skill.
Don't understand the July hate, they must have not watched the games. Can't wait for them to get owned in the NASL by July if he gets to play.
On March 18 2011 14:03 cozzE wrote: IdrA: "mc julys bad mcs protoss"
Where is the professionalism idra? Do you really need to downtalk other players/self promote when everyone already knows you're a good player? Do you have to talk about race everywhere you go? You're no different to CombatEX. It's really sad.
Other than that it I think MC will take it convincingly 4-1/4-2 :D
God, people on the boards ><
Look, Diamond asked him what his opinion on the match was, and that was it. Stuff like this is why pro players don't participate as much any more in the forums, because they're going to get shit on about every game they lost or comment they made. This is just how he feels about the match, if you wanted know what he thought, why bitch when he tells you?
Because he's the only one that speaks his opinions in a ridiculously rude way? It's fine to have opinions and to speak your mind, but not at the offense of someone else. I do think overall Idra is more solid in sc2 so far, but he's no where near as accomplished as July is overall (bw and sc2 combined). Not the right place to trash talk.
Did you even read through the comments? There were plenty of other people who said things similar to that, I don't know why you need to single him out.
MC. Cus hes imba, and july sux and mc is an abuser.
I think people should be entitled to their opinions, and I'm not sure why everyone is clamoring for this "professionalism" now-a-days anyways. I'm also not sure who his opinion is supposed to be offending, I mean really...
On-topic: For a second i read this as who will win TSL, and I was thinking: "Why are they all giving up already!", but then I realized it said GSL, and not TSL -.- . Will be really interesting to see the finals, and amazing if there is an awesome July upset. :p
Only similar quote is TT1s. The rest don't straight up diss July, rather they praise MC for being imba. Though both do say protoss is op. That's a similarity. If you're already forgotten, Idra gave Nestea a ton of flak, said he was horrible, and whatnot back when he won season 2. We all know how that turned out.
I quoted those, because one of his original points was:
Do you have to talk about race everywhere you go?
And there were more than that who mentioned race in a more indirect way. I'm just getting tired of seeing people jump at the opportunity to try to stir something up whenever IdrA is mentioned. For example, comparing him to Combat-ex, who's eloquence reaches such heights as "I fucked your mother last night. With my penis.", causes me to take a bit of offense. I don't really see the correlation, and it just looks like a gross overstatement.
On March 18 2011 14:03 cozzE wrote: IdrA: "mc julys bad mcs protoss"
Where is the professionalism idra? Do you really need to downtalk other players/self promote when everyone already knows you're a good player? Do you have to talk about race everywhere you go? You're no different to CombatEX. It's really sad.
Other than that it I think MC will take it convincingly 4-1/4-2 :D
IMMVP lost 4 out of 5 games to slayers_alicia amd MVP_genius the by far best terran in the world lossing four out of five too those to guys i think the pros might be on to something! P>T P>Z
4-0 or 4-1 to MC. It's funny how code S finals always seem to have clear favorite, eventhough skill at top should be more even. Then code A finals actually become the real finals =)
On March 18 2011 14:03 cozzE wrote: IdrA: "mc julys bad mcs protoss"
Where is the professionalism idra? Do you really need to downtalk other players/self promote when everyone already knows you're a good player? Do you have to talk about race everywhere you go? You're no different to CombatEX. It's really sad.
Other than that it I think MC will take it convincingly 4-1/4-2 :D
God, people on the boards ><
Look, Diamond asked him what his opinion on the match was, and that was it. Stuff like this is why pro players don't participate as much any more in the forums, because they're going to get shit on about every game they lost or comment they made. This is just how he feels about the match, if you wanted know what he thought, why bitch when he tells you?
Because he's the only one that speaks his opinions in a ridiculously rude way? It's fine to have opinions and to speak your mind, but not at the offense of someone else. I do think overall Idra is more solid in sc2 so far, but he's no where near as accomplished as July is overall (bw and sc2 combined). Not the right place to trash talk.
Did you even read through the comments? There were plenty of other people who said things similar to that, I don't know why you need to single him out.
MC. Cus hes imba, and july sux and mc is an abuser.
I think people should be entitled to their opinions, and I'm not sure why everyone is clamoring for this "professionalism" now-a-days anyways. I'm also not sure who his opinion is supposed to be offending, I mean really...
On-topic: For a second i read this as who will win TSL, and I was thinking: "Why are they all giving up already!", but then I realized it said GSL, and not TSL -.- . Will be really interesting to see the finals, and amazing if there is an awesome July upset. :p
Only similar quote is TT1s. The rest don't straight up diss July, rather they praise MC for being imba. Though both do say protoss is op. That's a similarity. If you're already forgotten, Idra gave Nestea a ton of flak, said he was horrible, and whatnot back when he won season 2. We all know how that turned out.
I quoted those, because one of your original points was:
And there were more than that who mentioned race in a more indirect way. I'm just getting tired of seeing people jump at the opportunity to try to stir something up whenever IdrA is mentioned. For example, comparing him to Combat-ex, who's eloquence reaches such heights as "I fucked your mother last night. With my penis.", causes me to take a bit of offense. I don't really see the correlation, and it just looks like a gross overstatement.
When did I say the 2nd quote? Definitely wasn't me.
On March 18 2011 14:03 cozzE wrote: IdrA: "mc julys bad mcs protoss"
Where is the professionalism idra? Do you really need to downtalk other players/self promote when everyone already knows you're a good player? Do you have to talk about race everywhere you go? You're no different to CombatEX. It's really sad.
Other than that it I think MC will take it convincingly 4-1/4-2 :D
God, people on the boards ><
Look, Diamond asked him what his opinion on the match was, and that was it. Stuff like this is why pro players don't participate as much any more in the forums, because they're going to get shit on about every game they lost or comment they made. This is just how he feels about the match, if you wanted know what he thought, why bitch when he tells you?
Because he's the only one that speaks his opinions in a ridiculously rude way? It's fine to have opinions and to speak your mind, but not at the offense of someone else. I do think overall Idra is more solid in sc2 so far, but he's no where near as accomplished as July is overall (bw and sc2 combined). Not the right place to trash talk.
Did you even read through the comments? There were plenty of other people who said things similar to that, I don't know why you need to single him out.
MC. Cus hes imba, and july sux and mc is an abuser.
I think people should be entitled to their opinions, and I'm not sure why everyone is clamoring for this "professionalism" now-a-days anyways. I'm also not sure who his opinion is supposed to be offending, I mean really...
On-topic: For a second i read this as who will win TSL, and I was thinking: "Why are they all giving up already!", but then I realized it said GSL, and not TSL -.- . Will be really interesting to see the finals, and amazing if there is an awesome July upset. :p
Only similar quote is TT1s. The rest don't straight up diss July, rather they praise MC for being imba. Though both do say protoss is op. That's a similarity. If you're already forgotten, Idra gave Nestea a ton of flak, said he was horrible, and whatnot back when he won season 2. We all know how that turned out.
I quoted those, because one of your original points was:
And there were more than that who mentioned race in a more indirect way. I'm just getting tired of seeing people jump at the opportunity to try to stir something up whenever IdrA is mentioned. For example, comparing him to Combat-ex, who's eloquence reaches such heights as "I fucked your mother last night. With my penis.", causes me to take a bit of offense. I don't really see the correlation, and it just looks like a gross overstatement.
Agreed. Many pros are posting the exact same sentiments, but it's funny how Idra is singled out out of all of them.
On March 18 2011 14:03 cozzE wrote: IdrA: "mc julys bad mcs protoss"
Where is the professionalism idra? Do you really need to downtalk other players/self promote when everyone already knows you're a good player? Do you have to talk about race everywhere you go? You're no different to CombatEX. It's really sad.
Other than that it I think MC will take it convincingly 4-1/4-2 :D
God, people on the boards ><
Look, Diamond asked him what his opinion on the match was, and that was it. Stuff like this is why pro players don't participate as much any more in the forums, because they're going to get shit on about every game they lost or comment they made. This is just how he feels about the match, if you wanted know what he thought, why bitch when he tells you?
Because he's the only one that speaks his opinions in a ridiculously rude way? It's fine to have opinions and to speak your mind, but not at the offense of someone else. I do think overall Idra is more solid in sc2 so far, but he's no where near as accomplished as July is overall (bw and sc2 combined). Not the right place to trash talk.
Did you even read through the comments? There were plenty of other people who said things similar to that, I don't know why you need to single him out.
MC. Cus hes imba, and july sux and mc is an abuser.
I think people should be entitled to their opinions, and I'm not sure why everyone is clamoring for this "professionalism" now-a-days anyways. I'm also not sure who his opinion is supposed to be offending, I mean really...
On-topic: For a second i read this as who will win TSL, and I was thinking: "Why are they all giving up already!", but then I realized it said GSL, and not TSL -.- . Will be really interesting to see the finals, and amazing if there is an awesome July upset. :p
Only similar quote is TT1s. The rest don't straight up diss July, rather they praise MC for being imba. Though both do say protoss is op. That's a similarity. If you're already forgotten, Idra gave Nestea a ton of flak, said he was horrible, and whatnot back when he won season 2. We all know how that turned out.
I quoted those, because one of your original points was:
Do you have to talk about race everywhere you go?
And there were more than that who mentioned race in a more indirect way. I'm just getting tired of seeing people jump at the opportunity to try to stir something up whenever IdrA is mentioned. For example, comparing him to Combat-ex, who's eloquence reaches such heights as "I fucked your mother last night. With my penis.", causes me to take a bit of offense. I don't really see the correlation, and it just looks like a gross overstatement.
When did I say the 2nd quote? Definitely wasn't me.
On March 18 2011 14:45 Mr.marine wrote: IMMVP lost 4 out of 5 games to slayers_alicia amd MVP_genius the by far best terran in the world lossing four out of five too those to guys i think the pros might be on to something! P>T P>Z
Apparently he's not the best TvPer in the world then, huh? I've seen other terrans crush those two, and IMMVP hardly played perfectly. Maybe if every execution was flawless that would be close to a valid argument, but IMMVP made stupid errors.
On March 18 2011 14:35 HowSoOnIsNow wrote: It`s hilarious how TT1 said that July sucks, he`d wipe the floor with the guy. Extravagant comments in regards to the skill he has. If July sucks, so where your skills are rated at?
I'd just like to make a point about this. You don't need to be qualified about something to make a decision about it. I'm not a professional hockey player but I can say, for instance, Aki Berg(or however you spell his name) is terrible for a pro. Sure, he's a lot better than me. But I can still make a statement about Aki Berg's skill. Plus, it's opinion, which is useless anyways because it's not backed up by anything really.
MC, its PvZ between best player in the world and a huge underdog. PvZ is hard enough as it is without having to play the far and away best player in sc2
On March 18 2011 14:35 HowSoOnIsNow wrote: It`s hilarious how TT1 said that July sucks, he`d wipe the floor with the guy. Extravagant comments in regards to the skill he has. If July sucks, so where your skills are rated at?
I'd just like to make a point about this. You don't need to be qualified about something to make a decision about it. I'm not a professional hockey player but I can say, for instance, Aki Berg(or however you spell his name) is terrible for a pro. Sure, he's a lot better than me. But I can still make a statement about Aki Berg's skill. Plus, it's opinion, which is useless anyways because it's not backed up by anything really.
Well is there anything you can say of July's recent play that shows him that he is "bad for a pro". Not really that's why a lot of people are criticizing TT1s and Idras comment
Y'all are reading way too much into this. I'd guess Idra is laughing his ass off at this entire thread because he loves when his opinions antagonize the community
Anyway July hasn't really done anything to demonstrate that he is super amazing--wins vs. MVP because MVP fucked up badly and Nada because Nada refused to play the matchup correctly don't really show anything, plus Clide and Anypro are nothing special. There's always a chance that he'll win because he is July, but the sane money can only be on MC.
On March 18 2011 14:03 cozzE wrote: IdrA: "mc julys bad mcs protoss"
Where is the professionalism idra? Do you really need to downtalk other players/self promote when everyone already knows you're a good player? Do you have to talk about race everywhere you go? You're no different to CombatEX. It's really sad.
Other than that it I think MC will take it convincingly 4-1/4-2 :D
God, people on the boards ><
Look, Diamond asked him what his opinion on the match was, and that was it. Stuff like this is why pro players don't participate as much any more in the forums, because they're going to get shit on about every game they lost or comment they made. This is just how he feels about the match, if you wanted know what he thought, why bitch when he tells you?
QFT. People really need to stop putting players on such a presidential like pedestal and expect politically correct answers all the time. Comments like the above will only distance the pros from the fans.
But some players do not bother to give out an educated opinion. Some of the opinions by pros is rather disappointing by saying that a certain player is granted the GSL 1st place not because of his skill or anything, he was just playing a superior race and lucky as a result. They have a voice not because of contributing excellent strategies to TL, but because of their performance in tournaments.
They don't have to have an educated opinion. If PainUser or someone was asked and they're a huge July fanboy, they're perfectly justified in saying "I don't like MC, July will win" Don't shit on the player who's giving the opinion, disagree with the opinion. Is it really so hard to say something like
"I don't know, MC was pretty good in S3, and he's been playing pretty well, and ZvP is July's matchup, go MC!"
rather than
"fuck IdrA, he's so obnoxious!"
If he comes on the boards and reads that, do you think he's going to want to do something like this again? No, there's no reason to if all that's going to happen is people yelling at him that he's a douchebag.
I never said anything about players. That is my point, a lot of players are not talking about MC, but rather Protoss.
Example of Bad Comments Bad
MC, Protoss
KawaiiRice
MC - he plays Protoss
Machine
MC, because hes Protoss
All these players did was just mention the name MC. They did not mention his play, his strategy, or possible counters. They just jumped to saying Protoss making it about a balance issue rather than a issue about the player. Also, did not bother to quote IdrA because I have no idea where it stands.
Example of Good Comments
Sheth
MC. too good of solid style
Jinro
MC, its PvZ between best player in the world and a huge underdog. PvZ is hard enough as it is without having to play the far and away best player in sc2
djWHEAT
July. Cause he inspires me! July Zerg has a style that makes me excited as a Zerg player... So regardless of the outcome I expect awesome games!
Ret
MC because he's a boss
ThisIsJimmy
July because hes a golden mouse winner and hes old school , and i want him to win, therefore he will win ! Also, its torches team so you gotta root for him.p.
TT1
MC. Cus hes imba, and july sux and mc is an abuser.
These comments were fan comments about the player. They did not talk about race except when talking about the race they are playing. They give praise (or criticism presented by TT1) and they say nothing about the race. TT1 would probably be labeled as inappropriate but he is just expressing fandom rather than saying a player was given cheat codes.
On March 18 2011 14:19 akalarry wrote: idra is a dbag with his comments. always whines and thinks zerg is the reason he's not in the finals, not himself. he sticks with 1 strategy and thinks if it doesn't work, then toss and terran are imbalanced. he is the most bland and least creative gamer ever. anything not true about what i said?
july reaction on reading idra's comments
You're right, Idra definitely is bad for not making the finals this season.... sigh.
It's pretty funny that people are blowing up over what Idra said, when I consider Jinro to have said the exact same thing.
julys bad = huge underdog mcs protoss = its PvZ.... PvZ is hard enough as it is..
Looks identical to me.
calling someone a huge underdog means they are bad? LOL
idra is just jealous of any zerg that performs better than him. fact.
On March 18 2011 14:35 HowSoOnIsNow wrote: It`s hilarious how TT1 said that July sucks, he`d wipe the floor with the guy. Extravagant comments in regards to the skill he has. If July sucks, so where your skills are rated at?
I'd just like to make a point about this. You don't need to be qualified about something to make a decision about it. I'm not a professional hockey player but I can say, for instance, Aki Berg(or however you spell his name) is terrible for a pro. Sure, he's a lot better than me. But I can still make a statement about Aki Berg's skill. Plus, it's opinion, which is useless anyways because it's not backed up by anything really.
Well is there anything you can say of July's recent play that shows him that he is "bad for a pro". Not really that's why a lot of people are criticizing TT1s and Idras comment
i think idras problem with him is that gimmicky all-in risky builds have carried him through a lot of the tougher opposition, and he had an easier time than one could imagine in the knockout phases to the final. his hardest opponent was nada who seemed behind the zvt metagame (according to idra, who is probably right) + won several rounds with all-ins. if he wasnt such a bw legend i suspect hed have recieved more criticism from other sources too.
On March 18 2011 14:35 HowSoOnIsNow wrote: It`s hilarious how TT1 said that July sucks, he`d wipe the floor with the guy. Extravagant comments in regards to the skill he has. If July sucks, so where your skills are rated at?
I'd just like to make a point about this. You don't need to be qualified about something to make a decision about it. I'm not a professional hockey player but I can say, for instance, Aki Berg(or however you spell his name) is terrible for a pro. Sure, he's a lot better than me. But I can still make a statement about Aki Berg's skill. Plus, it's opinion, which is useless anyways because it's not backed up by anything really.
Well is there anything you can say of July's recent play that shows him that he is "bad for a pro". Not really that's why a lot of people are criticizing TT1s and Idras comment
Look at the question posed: Who do you think will win (July or MC) and why?
Saying "July sux" in response to that question means the exact same thing as "MC is too good." I don't understand how people are blowing up over these opinions.
The pros were posed the question to pick who was better, July or MC. They aren't comparing the whole SC2 community in relative skill level.
Was rooting for NaDa, but he lost.... .... so now have to root for July, always root for the golden mouse... xD.... though MC will probably take it convincingly....
Mc would be a big fauvorite against any zerg as far as im concerned, he's so goddamn good. Though i've always considered julyzerg one of those guys who kicks up just as well as he kicks down, it will be an exciting finals for sure and my heart will always be with the zerg ^_^ july fighting!
On March 18 2011 14:41 Heavenly wrote: All this balance whining is a joke. I love how it switches from TvP impossible to ZvT impossible to XvP impossible, because protoss has found out proper build orders to take advantage of the standard timings of other races.
At least I think the one thing we can all agree on, PvP really is impossible.
On March 18 2011 15:00 Canucklehead wrote: Lol at idra's and tt1's comment. TT who? I think mc is going to win too, but the god of war is by no means bad.
TT the guy that took second at the MLG Dallas, and it's 4th highest seed in MLG right now......
The responses to this thread make me a sad panda. No one can ever appreciate something cool that's being done for them, they just have to find a way to make some drama or criticize someone.
On March 18 2011 15:00 Canucklehead wrote: Lol at idra's and tt1's comment. TT who? I think mc is going to win too, but the god of war is by no means bad.
TT the guy that took second at the MLG Dallas, and it's 4th highest seed in MLG right now......
Who? I only remember jinro winning mlg dallas and the huge delays, but didn't even remember who he jinrolled!
Isn't it amazing that zergs do well in recent tourneys, yet still so much zerg qq? July in finals and losira won code a. Idra should practice more instead of using the game is broken excuse over and over when other zergs are performing well.
What's the problem? Dude, these guys are giving off opinions not facts, they aren't doing the commentary...they're just trying to fool around and have some fun.
And MC, this time there won't be "drone drone drone" for you...
It wouldn't matter who MC was playing against, I would still have him down as the winner, but in this case against a cheesy zerg I just don't see how he can lose a best of 7. It just seems like if he sits back and plays safe he should be able to win every time. The only reason I suggest MC might lose a game is that Julys style is a complete gamble and he might just luck out in a game.
I seriously hope I'm wrong, but I'm expecting a very one sided match.
The more I read comments on TL the more I realize there are literally dozens(if not hundreds) of people hanging on Idras' every word, looking for ANY and EVERY angle they can possibly get in to criticize the guy.
Jesus Christ people just let go of your angst, let go of your anal retentiveness, just take a deep breath and LET GO of your hate. It was a harmless comment which emulates most every other reply made-he's a blunt call-it-like-you-see-it personality, quick to anger/tilt- but he isn't a malicious frothing at the mouth idiot (combatex)
He is an entertaining player who puts out great games and so far has spot on predictions for GSL (MvP run comes to mind).
I hope hes wrong this time though because I REALLY want July to win. If there is anyone to yank victory from an overwhelming favorite he is the guy to do it.
I also heard on Huks' stream that MC was already getting drunk and celebrating his "victory". Would love for July to bust him open with some sick creative play. JULY HWAIGHTING!
Lol at Idra and TT1 calling Julyzerg bad. There is a reason July made the finals. He is immune to scrubs in ZvT and ZvP. Unlike our foreign heroes. MC is the favourite , because he plays protoss as most pros say and PvZ isn't balanced . There isn't a significant skill gap between MC and July and if MC played terran i would peak July to win without a second thought . Against MC he has to play pretty exceptional to beat him so the adds aren't in JulyZerg's favour .
God, ffs shut up about IdrA. Almost everyone interviewed said MC was going to win, but since he's the best zerg outside of Korea he has to catch shit for saying he thinks July's going to lose just like everyone else?
On March 18 2011 15:24 starcraft2rush wrote: The more I read comments on TL the more I realize there are literally dozens(if not hundreds) of people hanging on Idras' every word, looking for ANY and EVERY angle they can possibly get in to criticize the guy. !
There are more idra white knights than there are idra haters on this site. All you had to do was see the live thread when jinro played idra in gsl. Majority was rooting for idra in that series cause he's american while jinro is swedish. Most Americans from what I've seen don't seem to have a problem with idra's bm.
On March 18 2011 14:54 theqat wrote: Y'all are reading way too much into this. I'd guess Idra is laughing his ass off at this entire thread because he loves when his opinions antagonize the community
Anyway July hasn't really done anything to demonstrate that he is super amazing--wins vs. MVP because MVP fucked up badly and Nada because Nada refused to play the matchup correctly don't really show anything, plus Clide and Anypro are nothing special. There's always a chance that he'll win because he is July, but the sane money can only be on MC.
lol...you want players playing with an observer monitor when they play July too?
There is no excuse at this level for not playing good enough or making errors and failing to win.
On March 18 2011 13:36 Lokian wrote: July is totally taking this. I don't know what these pros are talking about, July has more cards to reveal than MC.
Clearly
Just kidding
But in all seriousness, MC should have this 4-2, if he even gives up that many games.
He hasn't looked worried, shaken up, or fragile at all this season. He's been dominating everyone, and July, while winning overall, has been far from perfect.
On March 18 2011 15:24 raga4ka wrote: Lol at Idra and TT1 calling Julyzerg bad. There is a reason July made the finals. He is immune to scrubs in ZvT and ZvP. Unlike our foreign heroes.
I think MC will win even though I want July to win. Just that July's style might catch him off guard once or twice or unorthodox timings and who knows, July might win some games if not the series.
I find that, to some extent, July is in the same position that BoxeR and NaDa are in. As aging pro-gamers making the transition to SC2, they are able to build on an immense amount of history and experience, but are unable to adapt to the hardcore-ness of the young blood. MC 4-1
July 4-0. And it has nothing to do with rooting for the underdog, julyzerg is the god of war and if anyone can win a major league with everything against him(opponent, mu, month etc.) it's july. Tushin hwaiting!
I really agree with Jinro's summary, MC is just far and away a better player. MC has been playing like this alot longer than July has. But if anyone can force results, it's July.
July has re-educated the masses about Zerg and what can be achieved. I remember how Zerg players were crying how they need a buff, and then July shows how its done. Quite SC2 landscape-changing stuff actually.
This is the best finals for a longtime, Im just looking forward to these 2 bosses duking it out tomor!! :D
On March 18 2011 14:54 theqat wrote: Y'all are reading way too much into this. I'd guess Idra is laughing his ass off at this entire thread because he loves when his opinions antagonize the community
Anyway July hasn't really done anything to demonstrate that he is super amazing--wins vs. MVP because MVP fucked up badly and Nada because Nada refused to play the matchup correctly don't really show anything, plus Clide and Anypro are nothing special. There's always a chance that he'll win because he is July, but the sane money can only be on MC.
lol...you want players playing with an observer monitor when they play July too?
There is no excuse at this level for not playing good enough or making errors and failing to win.
yet it happens all the time. Are you suggesting that pro players play to their potential all the time and their potential fluctuates drastically month to month or game to game? What a joke
On March 18 2011 15:24 raga4ka wrote: Lol at Idra and TT1 calling Julyzerg bad. There is a reason July made the finals. He is immune to scrubs in ZvT and ZvP. Unlike our foreign heroes.
Nicely put
July is pretty bad, he really shouldnt have won against nada. Nada played terribly and didnt adjust for july's strat. And Anypro shouldnt have been in the semi's.
July has had probably the easiest road to the finals in GSL history. He may be a god in BW, but MC is gonna 4-0 him.
On March 18 2011 15:26 TT1 wrote: wow tt1 wat a douche
Oh and, you know, calling a GSL finalist, and a BW legend, a player that sucks, you sound ridiculous.
... just, think a little before you talk.
/facepalm
People just don't think before they talk do they, with all their BM. Look at what this scrub has to say
Q: Your opponent is ieS-Ciara, a Zerg from Denmark. Do you know anything about him?
All I know is that he’s not that great a player.
-interview with oGs.MC
What a scrub, he has opinions and everything, he obviously can't know what he's talking about, or have an honest opinion! He sounds ridiculous, what with his opinions and what not, he really needs to think before he talks! Fie on him! Rabble, Rabble, Rabble! I shall post in a forum about my chagrin on the subject and he will read it and be ashamed!
PPL can try to downplay July's achievement all they want. It's just jealousy, July is the best Zerg around atm period. ie. I don't see any other Zerg player in the finals of the GSL.
On March 18 2011 16:02 RinconH wrote: Idra's foolish.
If July's aggressive playstyle enters the meta-game then it will make Zerg stronger.
Z/T players will have to stop cutting corners and start game planning for aggressive zerg play.
Even the threat of aggressive zerg play will allow macro players a better chance.
in TvZ against an aggresive zerg, you can just build a defensive that cant be broken, enough tank/thor and some marines with a PF cant be broken by a zerg who cut drones at 50 and doesnt have teir 3.
It worked vs Nada because nada did the standard 2 base pressure.
If Nada had simply taken a 3rd and defended, he woulda won easily. However Nada didnt adapt. a good terran would beat this kind of play pretty handily
People still discuss idra as if he cares even slightly, why is this?
The man speaks his mind, he doesn't trash talk people for no reason, he doesn't form an opinion because he's jealous, he just says what he believes... always.
Also, I believe july already is playing with refined aggression. Maybe not the most refined, but for some reason I get the impression that he always has his magic number of drones before he goes into hyper aggression (based on what he scouted) either that, or his prestige from BW is blinding me.
I hope for july cuz i h8 toss but i think MC will take it he absues SC2 like no one else he can do alot of allins in different timings and PvZ is rly hard at the moment maybe July will come up with a good build an win the series.FAT zerg hwaiting!
On March 18 2011 13:04 darmousseh wrote: Lol, wow the pros really think that mc will win just because he's protoss? hahahaha. Seriously it's ok to admit that mc is good not just because of his race.
it is because hes good AND because protoss has an advantage vs zerg (And terran) atm.
Before that thread it was w/e who wins gsl, but now I hope July wins this so I can laugh at all those pros who were so sure about MC's flawless victory.
Lots of people commenting in this thread sound like they didn't even watch the round of 32. July v MC in that round was just disgustingly bad. So far July has not shown any reason why the series wont look like their first encounter. MC to take the championship.
Reading pros call July "bad" or "trash" is the equivalent of some minor league AA scrub badmouthing the skills of a regular MLB player. This is particularly amusing when the offender is TT1, whose only noteworthy accomplishment in Starcraft is hacking.
We are all entitled to our opinions as spectators but so-called pros should really take the higher ground and watch what they say.
I LOVE the comments because it makes me root for July even more lol. I like both players and it would be cool to see MC win GSL twice, but gotta root for July!
On March 18 2011 16:38 Saeglopur wrote: Reading pros call July "bad" or "trash" is the equivalent of some minor league AA scrub badmouthing the skills of a regular MLB player. This is particularly amusing when the offender is TT1, whose only noteworthy accomplishment in Starcraft is hacking.
We are all entitled to our opinions as spectators but so-called pros should really take the higher ground and watch what they say.
Can't wait for e-sports to grow up.
MC 4 - 1 July
LOL. eSports grow up? Good luck waiting for that. eSports been like this since forever and has gone far like this.
You know whats funny? The people that said July is bad could never in a billizion years evne make it to the finals of an GSL. I think the best out of them is idra and he got top 8 of GSL once before getting rolled. Then he complain about balance Zerg QQ cant win. Now he bashes on a finalist. Lulz much. If a finalist is that bad, then he must be more terrible.
On March 18 2011 16:49 xbankx wrote: You know whats funny? The people that said July is bad could never in a billizion years evne make it to the finals of an GSL. I think the best out of them is idra and he got top 8 of GSL before getting rolled. Ten complain about balance. Now he bashes on a finalist. Lulz much. If a finalist is that bad, then he must be more terrible.
Go watch some of JulyZerg's Code A games. Go do it. Show me one person in the world that saw those games and went "You know, July might be one of the best players in the world. He'll probably make it to the finals next season". Hell no! July looked fucking terrible in Code A, and has since seemingly improved, but also hasn't seemed to win games by force of skill, but by fucking strangeness. It's like if it were a boxing match, July would be the guy boxing with three arms. Does that make him skilled? Not necessarily. Does that make him hard as hell to fight? Sure does!
July's play is different and interesting, neither of which necessarily indicate skill. I mean, the guy fucking dropped banelings on thors. How the hell is that in any way skilled?
On March 18 2011 14:07 Cyanocyst wrote: Really, why should the Zerg late game army be able to stand and fight with Terran or Toss late game army? Characteristically it shouldn't be able to.
why not? isn't the game supposed to be balanced? do you think it should be auto-win for protoss lategame?!
btw, july is gonna lose 4-0 because what I saw of his games when he played standard he committed a lot of mistakes and against MC it will be unforgiving.
Just because a maxed army of one race is more efficient than the others, doesn't mean its not balanced. Your not playing to Zerg strengths, if you just make a big ball of units and try to kill the other persons ball when he moves out. (A smart toss or Terran would only move out when their army is at a significant advantage)
July can win with cute agressive plays. But MC is better than that, he doesn't die to bull like that. Expect to see atleast 50 forcefields in each and every game vs july. Tushin won't stand a chance whatever he does.
I really don't care about him constantly bming everyone, he could well be trolling and try to stick to his reputation but the endless balance whining is getting tiresome.
edit: and the funniest part is that when he ll be right, noone will listen to him cause he always cry "imbalance" at various stages of the game's development
On March 18 2011 15:24 raga4ka wrote: Lol at Idra and TT1 calling Julyzerg bad. There is a reason July made the finals. He is immune to scrubs in ZvT and ZvP. Unlike our foreign heroes.
Nicely put
July is pretty bad, he really shouldnt have won against nada. Nada played terribly and didnt adjust for july's strat. And Anypro shouldnt have been in the semi's.
July has had probably the easiest road to the finals in GSL history. He may be a god in BW, but MC is gonna 4-0 him.
July's starting group had both MC and MVP and Nada. I don't think he had that easy of a road up tbh!
But with how good MC is, there's no way July can beat MC. Plus, he's protoss so... But I truly hope for a close set, maybe 4-3 or so. I bet July will crack down MC atleast once with some awesome bust!
On March 18 2011 16:02 RinconH wrote: Idra's foolish to denigrate July's style. If anything it is in his best interests to promote it.
If July's aggressive playstyle enters the meta-game then it will make Zerg stronger.
P/T players will have to stop cutting corners and start game planning for aggressive zerg play.
Even the threat of aggressive zerg play will allow macro players a better chance.
You would be right if Idra had displayed a "normal way of thinking" towards the game and the metagame. But he prefers to repeat a single style of play (which he has perfected) even if it puts him at an obvious disadvantage in certain situations (vs Squirtle at IEM?) and then shout "imbalance" when he doesn't win (to any opponent who has completely figured him out).
MC beat some noob who wasn't even amateur at broodwar.
july is a fucking champion, first zerg to win an osl, been in 5 finals and lost only to oov and nada. july 4-0, easy. suicide toss is the under dog here.
mc better take this, if he loses to muta/bling which is realistically the only thing july knows how to do (even if he's got super pro mechanics)[the only game he went roach was against mc who lold in his face], i'll eat my face in frustration
i'm actually scared about this, since mc might have an offday and lose focus after a couple of july's allins, when under normal conditions the skill gap is pretty high between the two. hell, toss op etc., mc would normally wreck july even if their races were interchanged
and i find kiwi's line very funny. jinro puts it quite nicely, the guy is is far and away the best player in sc2, i expect him to win this season and another one soon setting him on track for the elusive bonjwa title. i mean, guy's got such a mystical understanding of timings his play looks abusive
also, july's getting all the love because 1. he's july (true, <3) 2. he's zerg aka underdog - main point 3. he's playing completely differently from 99% of zergs
BUT if these 1 and 2 weren't the case he'd be classified as an abuser and alliner, because he got to the finals allining -fact- (yes, i also call 5 base zerg playing nothing but muta for 30 minutes with no transitions even planned allin), had he been a random toss or terran doing equivalent allins through to the finals he's have been buried under the community hate and -insert race- outcries
EVEN IF his mechanics, unit control are outstanding and he does expo properly after his initial bling busts
if july is winning, IdrA will probably tweet " Thanks MC for making Zergs look good" same way he did when FD trashed Rainbow.
I don't mind the balance insinuations so much but it seems like he is always calling zergs who win bad/lucky/all-in to justify his points.
I do agree though that PvZ seems P favoured at the moment and i think imbalanced is not such a taboo word. It is just like BW prior the revolution where ZvP is auto win for the Z.
The game will change ( i know the ling baneling ultra style seems like it is working well for some people)
I think the first 2 GSLs have showed that you can't just name which race is the 'strongest' at that time and say they'll win. In 1 series it's all up to the players. But still MC is gonna take it, because as many have said already; MC is a boss.
I would be SHOCKED more than MVP going to Code-A sort of shocked that MC would lose this. July is just not good. He's not. He really really really is not good. He catches people off-guard sure, but it's going to be a one sided fight with MC compleltly outclassing July in Macro, Micro, Strategy and awareness. All parts of this game MC has an advantage over July.
On March 18 2011 15:24 raga4ka wrote: Lol at Idra and TT1 calling Julyzerg bad. There is a reason July made the finals. He is immune to scrubs in ZvT and ZvP. Unlike our foreign heroes.
What are you talking about, IdrA only loses when his opponent does stupid builds *runs*
Anyways, I think July is even a bigger underdog vs MC than Rain was, simply because of the current stance of PvZ. I don't know if protoss is truly overpowered in this matchup, but it really does seem like few zergs can overcome a toss who gets his deathball rolling recently. And MC just doesn't make mistakes, PvZ may not be his best matchup, but it's rocksolid. He will never lose to any cute stuff, I think if anything then he could lose to an extraordinary macro-zerg. But that's not July, at least not from the games I've seen from him.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MC,hes 2-0 on julyzerg.and he plays in a style that can handle julyzerg's hyperaggressiveness. I anticipate it will go 3-1 for MC, and 90% that july 6 pools game 1 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lol WHOS GONNA WIN Whiplash you havent decided yet ?
On March 18 2011 13:40 GGzerG wrote: July is going to win because he is JulyZerg...This is going to be just like when JulyZerg won the OSL... HYPE ... GOGO Zerg fighting !
edit : I hope i'm pro enough to be in the pro list!
Sorry but this isn't bw, mechanics in sc2 make you the better player however protoss makes protoss the better player
On March 18 2011 13:40 Tenks wrote: Good to see IdrA thinks July is terrible but is somehow in the GSL finals. I'm sure if it was his ass in the seat I'd be proclaiming himself best Zerg in the universe.
IdrA is nothing at all like combatEX. combatEX attempts to use insults to gain a mental advantage in his games. He spews bullshit from his mouth and is a bad player not because he talks shit but because he is so mechanically inferior to IdrA. IdrA speaks what he feels, he is not going out of his way to down talk julyzerg he is simply sticking to his principles. as he said "Zerg is a macro race and it is the only way to play it" obviously july enjoy cheesing from time to time so IdrA sees him as an inferior zerg player because he gets lucky with cheese. The game is imbalanced and he won with cheese, I think that upsets IdrA and myself because it portrays the image of balance to see a zerg in the finals when you really aren't looking at how he got there and who he beat.
On March 18 2011 15:24 raga4ka wrote: Lol at Idra and TT1 calling Julyzerg bad. There is a reason July made the finals. He is immune to scrubs in ZvT and ZvP. Unlike our foreign heroes.
Nicely put
July is pretty bad, he really shouldnt have won against nada. Nada played terribly and didnt adjust for july's strat. And Anypro shouldnt have been in the semi's.
July has had probably the easiest road to the finals in GSL history. He may be a god in BW, but MC is gonna 4-0 him.
July's starting group had both MC and MVP and Nada. I don't think he had that easy of a road up tbh!
But with how good MC is, there's no way July can beat MC. Plus, he's protoss so... But I truly hope for a close set, maybe 4-3 or so. I bet July will crack down MC atleast once with some awesome bust!
thats incorrect.
July's group had hyperdub not Nada.
Also July lost to MC, and beat MVP twice to advance, considering MVP just went down to Code A, that isnt much of a surprise.
He then faced Clide, who is nothing special, Nada (who played badly) and finally Anypro who simply isnt that good. It was an easy road to the finals.
On March 18 2011 16:10 Parcelleus wrote: Yeah cos Nada didnt know what he was doing ? lol
He did and it didnt work vs July period.
No. Nada didnt know what he was doing. He played that match poorly.
Its not insulting to admit a player you admire played poorly. It doesnt take away from the player. EVERYONE plays bad at some point
yeah every1 is perfect with hindsight, we all know that.
July won the match and moved into the finals period, no matter what excuses you want to dream up.
what? so we should just say "X won, who cares why the only thing that matters is X won and Y lost. No matter if theres a reason, all we need to know is X won"
I hope you see how naive and uninformative that is
On March 18 2011 16:10 Parcelleus wrote: Yeah cos Nada didnt know what he was doing ? lol
He did and it didnt work vs July period.
No. Nada didnt know what he was doing. He played that match poorly.
Its not insulting to admit a player you admire played poorly. It doesnt take away from the player. EVERYONE plays bad at some point
yeah every1 is perfect with hindsight, we all know that.
July won the match and moved into the finals period, no matter what excuses you want to dream up.
what? so we should just say "X won, who cares why the only thing that matters is X won and Y lost. No matter if theres a reason, all we need to know is X won"
I hope you see how naive and uninformative that is
Your twisting what I was saying.
Of course it's interesting to talk about why someone may of lost, but at the end of the day, both players had the same conditions, and whoever plays best on the day will win. There is nothing naive about that. Obviously July was the better player on the day.
On March 18 2011 20:28 dezi wrote: Amazing how IdrA can also turn a simple question about who will win a tournament into a zerg QQ. I don't think this is needed ...
lol, that is idra. He is entertaining though because he is oblivious to everything and think he is the best and he only lose games due to imbalance. Apparently he doesnt ever play bad, which is why he is a scrub who goes top 8 most of the time and after maybe 2-3 years when everyone else's mechanic catches up. He will fade away.
Honestly July's playstyle is very flawed, he is way too aggressive, as long as you can defend harass well and you get a better economy, July's going to lose. July got to the finals of this GSL the same way players like Rain did, extreme luck. If July manages to win a game it'd probably be from a 6 pool.
On March 18 2011 14:03 cozzE wrote: IdrA: "mc julys bad mcs protoss"
Where is the professionalism idra? Do you really need to downtalk other players/self promote when everyone already knows you're a good player? Do you have to talk about race everywhere you go? You're no different to CombatEX. It's really sad.
Other than that it I think MC will take it convincingly 4-1/4-2 :D
Yeah Idra is exactly like Combat-ex except that he doesent lie, cheat and beg to win games he lost. Noone deserves be compared to combat-ex. No one. He is a freaking disgrace.
God damn i promised that i would stop being negative after the ban but god that kid makes me angry -.-
They are similar.
Anyway it's pretty obvious that MC will win, July is good but he's very inconsistent. When he's on top of his game I can see him taking a few games off MC but yeah, otherwise he'll get 4-0'd.
hm suicide toss vs the god of war... if it was BW there would be no question here. Sadly it isnt BW though so the random scrub (-> IrOn) is gonna win this D:
On March 18 2011 20:28 dezi wrote: Amazing how IdrA can also turn a simple question about who will win a tournament into a zerg QQ. I don't think this is needed ...
Ive only seen him bm or QQ. If it weren't for his skill he'd be a pariah in community.
On March 18 2011 20:28 dezi wrote: Amazing how IdrA can also turn a simple question about who will win a tournament into a zerg QQ. I don't think this is needed ...
You mean amazing how like third of the players who answered managed to do that?
Ps.
Q: MC said to win the finals, a zerg opponent will be the best bet. July: Indeed, due to ZvP matchup. I can only sigh.
The races characteristic is wierd. A 200/200 maxed out engage basically Protoss could have won with just a net loss of 30 food count units. Then another push from Protoss Zerg would have KO. Zerg is too fragile. ZvP is indeed hard to fight.
On March 18 2011 20:39 LetoAtreides82 wrote: Honestly July's playstyle is very flawed, he is way too aggressive, as long as you can defend harass well and you get a better economy, July's going to lose. July got to the finals of this GSL the same way players like Rain did, extreme luck. If July manages to win a game it'd probably be from a 6 pool.
This is horrible. All the zergs who tried to defend play defensive against protoss get rolled over by that deathball that even a 400 supply zerg army can't kill. July's playstyle I'd say is the one if anything that might be able to break MC. Though he does get overaggro at times - eg. baneling dropping thors vs clide!
Comparing him to Rain is just bad. July's macro is way better than Rain's. He didn't 1/2 base-all-in his way into the finals.
I've been doubting July since the group stages and he's proved me wrong every time, so I'm changing tack here and picking July... then again I want July to win and since he's been winning when I pick against him maybe I should do that again... :D
On March 18 2011 20:28 dezi wrote: Amazing how IdrA can also turn a simple question about who will win a tournament into a zerg QQ. I don't think this is needed ...
You mean amazing how like third of the players who answered managed to do that?
Q: MC said to win the finals, a zerg opponent will be the best bet. July: Indeed, due to ZvP matchup. I can only sigh.
The races characteristic is wierd. A 200/200 maxed out engage basically Protoss could have won with just a net loss of 30 food count units. Then another push from Protoss Zerg would have KO. Zerg is too fragile. ZvP is indeed hard to fight.
Somewhat different level between "MC gonna win cos he's protoss" and July talking about how he finds the match-up difficult. Also, from the same interview:
Q: As of now, Zerg who advances to Ro8 take the finals. A: There is alot differences between the past and now. Compared to last time, now racial balance is much better.
About Idra.. it's just normal for him to balance whine, it's what he does, he would be doing it whatever race he played. He and TT1 should show some respect though to a player who has accomplished far more than they ever have and probably ever will.
On March 18 2011 20:39 LetoAtreides82 wrote: Honestly July's playstyle is very flawed, he is way too aggressive, as long as you can defend harass well and you get a better economy, July's going to lose. July got to the finals of this GSL the same way players like Rain did, extreme luck. If July manages to win a game it'd probably be from a 6 pool.
This is horrible. All the zergs who tried to defend play defensive against protoss get rolled over by that deathball that even a 400 supply zerg army can't kill. July's playstyle I'd say is the one if anything that might be able to break MC. Though he does get overaggro at times - eg. baneling dropping thors vs clide!
Comparing him to Rain is just bad. July's macro is way better than Rain's. He didn't 1/2 base-all-in his way into the finals.
July is levels ahead of Rain, but then again July is levels below MC.
some people need to get off idra's nuts. It's unprofessional and illogical to call someone far better and more accomplished than you "bad" while giving a backhanded excuse as to why you cant make it into the semi-finals of any tournament with koreans.
On March 18 2011 20:28 dezi wrote: Amazing how IdrA can also turn a simple question about who will win a tournament into a zerg QQ. I don't think this is needed ...
You mean amazing how like third of the players who answered managed to do that?
Ps.
Q: MC said to win the finals, a zerg opponent will be the best bet. July: Indeed, due to ZvP matchup. I can only sigh.
The races characteristic is wierd. A 200/200 maxed out engage basically Protoss could have won with just a net loss of 30 food count units. Then another push from Protoss Zerg would have KO. Zerg is too fragile. ZvP is indeed hard to fight.
Somewhat different level between "MC gonna win cos he's protoss" and July talking about how he finds the match-up difficult. Also, from the same interview:
Q: As of now, Zerg who advances to Ro8 take the finals. A: There is alot differences between the past and now. Compared to last time, now racial balance is much better.
About Idra.. it's just normal for him to balance whine, it's what he does, he would be doing it whatever race he played. He and TT1 should show some respect though to a player who has accomplished far more than they ever have and probably ever will.
Of course July isn't going to say in an interview he is going to lose the finals. July balance whined and this isn't the first time, no way around that. Most top korean zergs do.
Amazed by the disrespect of July. Kind of sad tbh.
I too think that MC will win, but I don't get the disrespect. Would be awesome if July won and have all these top players again scream "cheese", "risky play" and "fluke" and all that bullshit that for some reason seems to be tabu when you play a game of SC2.
Both these players take advantage of the opponents mistake and play mindgames, one gets praised and the other is a baddie. Just funny .
July will win this final, he has the history with him (FruitDealer winning when ZvT was a bit like XvP now) and his OSL final. MC doesn't stand a chance even if he is the best protoss and protoss the strongest race atm.
I think July uses one aspect of Zerg better than anyone else, and that is just beeing mistaken with stupid all-in/agression mode: The fact that Zerg can techswitch in amazing speed. No Terran could, let's say, switch from bio to mech within a minute, but Zerg can switch from normal game into all-in baneling in no time. When that's not scouted, someone can be pretty dead (such as NaDa).
Also, playing this because he believes it's likely to work is different from not beeing able to play differently. And Terrans as well as Protoss are rarely really safe against such moves in moments where they dont have good scouting information.
On March 18 2011 16:10 Parcelleus wrote: Yeah cos Nada didnt know what he was doing ? lol
He did and it didnt work vs July period.
No. Nada didnt know what he was doing. He played that match poorly.
Its not insulting to admit a player you admire played poorly. It doesnt take away from the player. EVERYONE plays bad at some point
I'm baffled how you can say that players of July and Nada's caliber don't know what their doing . Most of the pros have reasoning beyond our understandings for doing what they do in games . When there are top players playing against each other there is no telling how well for example Nada's push will do . Yes Nada didn't play perfectly he obviously made mistakes so did July , but the games they played was absolutely the highest level of what SC2 has shown us so far . People think that when Nada attacks and it gets destroyed he doesn't know what he is doing lol . Nada's pushes may have not worked against July , but they may have right out flatten Idra who plays a different style then July or a slightly inferior zerg then does 2 .
This is like players questioning Flash when he loses , yes even he makes mistakes . So to summarize i think you are just hating on July and probably Nada . Both players prayed at a pretty high level depending on what SC2 has shown us so far .
And you are not the only one here . There will always be haters who will disrespect July for the style he plays . Players who think that when people cheese they are weak . When in fact it's the player that loses is weak against cheese . Right now i personally want July to win just to shut up the haters .
idra can complain and play his macro style for 10 years because "that is how zerg should be played". ..meanwhile in GSL: fruitdealer wins gsl, nestea wins gsl, july is in the finals
July vs NaDa showed that July's tactic was simply super effective against standard playing style. There was nothing wrong with him playing that way, because it worked. It is not a logical conclusion to say that he cannot play differently only because he sticked to that playstyle - there was no reason to play differently, because his way of playing worked!
I'm still convinced that a player like July has an edge over a player like MC. Call me irrational, but July has already proven hundreds of people wrong time and time again, and while it may not be as apparent just by watching the games, he's just legendary and one of the best RTS players of all time and has just reached finals of the biggest SC2 tournament. I don't care how sloppy his game LOOKS, it's no accident or coincidence that he was the one who managed to reach the finals while playing sloppy, while some of the so-called best players in the world dropped to Code A.
Somehow I doubt a player of his calibre will let this chance slip. He will silence the non-believers once again.
MC is obiously the favorite for this game, but July has more experience. I think it can go both way; MC can roflestomp him 4-0 , but if July manages to take a few games off MC , MC can start to choke and July might take the finals. So in my opinion ( not a pro :p ) , it's going to be either 4-0 for MC or 4-3 for July.
On March 18 2011 21:26 Talin wrote: I'm still convinced that a player like July has an edge over a player like MC. Call me irrational, but July has already proven hundreds of people wrong time and time again, and while it may not be as apparent just by watching the games, he's just legendary and one of the best RTS players of all time and has just reached finals of the biggest SC2 tournament. I don't care how sloppy his game LOOKS, it's no accident or coincidence that he was the one who managed to reach the finals while playing sloppy, while some of the so-called best players in the world dropped to Code A.
Somehow I doubt a player of his calibre will let this chance slip. He will silence the non-believers once again.
I think the same will happen , but i have more doubt then ever , because you can't win by just being one of the best at RTS games of all time when the game isn't as balanced as it could be right now .
I would be willing to make a wager to anyone that if july does beat MC and he does it throughnon "Idra's I will make drone all game long Ah! imba world imba world", Idra will still bash July for being bad.
But if July does win, perhaps the notion that you make 4 Zerglings in the first 12 minute of the match and otherwise drone your ass off, will be looked at more critically and the meta game might change.
It takes greatness to change Starcraft like that, no reason as to why July cant do it, Moon showed some new ideas and ways to play other than the standard, boring, drone drone and more drone.
These predictions always give me a good laugh as there's always a lot of comment for the fotm... Yes, MC is protoss, and protoss is the 'OP' race right now, if we read anything anyone has to say about the game. But it was exactly the same for the first 2 seasons, where it was Zerg vs Terran, and everyone saying the terran would win, terran's OP, etc...
Anyway, I think MC will win, because he's a real badass. An overall really good player, awesome macro, great micro, sick timing, unbelievable unit control, extremely good game sense, and isn't afraid of using both cheese and standard play.
He will win, but not because he plays protoss, but because IMO he's the best at it at the moment.
MC Likey 1 Base. July Likey 1.5 Base. MC Likey Air Units July Likey Zergling Baneling MC 3-0 bunker rush with PROTOSS and win reminding me of another finals.... Perhaps Bunker = Cannon, but we see oh yes we see.
Everyone who asks what you have to do to be good to IdrA...he probably doesn't like July due to his super aggro playstyle. Not to mention, he loves to be hated, so typing a barely coherent sentence and getting a ton of flak for it makes him smile.
I want it to be July 4-3 but I doubt MC is beatable in a BO7 at the moment.
I think desrow has it confused because oGsMc DOES NOT have a great BW background. JulyZerg had a much stronger background. MC won how many games as a pro gamer in Brood war? 1 out of 10...wow
I think JulyZerg will suprise us all. Because in Brood War his strongest MU was ZvP and he's getting better and better at SC2 plus he's focusing only on ZvP because the remaining players left in code S are P. Where MC has to worry about PvP and PvZ. We will see.
On March 18 2011 22:11 Demonace34 wrote: Everyone who asks what you have to do to be good to IdrA...he probably doesn't like July due to his super aggro playstyle. Not to mention, he loves to be hated, so typing a barely coherent sentence and getting a ton of flak for it makes him smile.
I want it to be July 4-3 but I doubt MC is beatable in a BO7 at the moment.
Idra doesn't like July because July stomped him on live TV in the brood war MSL Tournament.
On March 18 2011 22:16 BlazeFury01 wrote: I think desrow has it confused because oGsMc DOES NOT have a great BW background. JulyZerg had a much stronger background. MC won how many games as a pro gamer in Brood war? 1 out of 10...wow
I think JulyZerg will suprise us all. Because in Brood War his strongest MU was ZvP and he's getting better and better at SC2 plus he's focusing only on ZvP because the remaining players left in code S are P. Where MC has to worry about PvP and PvZ. We will see.
I'm not confused sir. I know July's background > MC's background. MC's has a good enough BW background tho and is sick good in sc2 to beat july's handsdown
On March 18 2011 22:16 BlazeFury01 wrote: I think desrow has it confused because oGsMc DOES NOT have a great BW background. JulyZerg had a much stronger background. MC won how many games as a pro gamer in Brood war? 1 out of 10...wow
I think JulyZerg will suprise us all. Because in Brood War his strongest MU was ZvP and he's getting better and better at SC2 plus he's focusing only on ZvP because the remaining players left in code S are P. Where MC has to worry about PvP and PvZ. We will see.
I'm not confused sir. I know July's background > MC's background. MC's has a good enough BW background tho and is sick good in sc2 to beat july's handsdown
I see. It looked like you we're saying MC's background > July's. We'll we shall see! I hope for some good games and no all in builds lol
On March 18 2011 22:29 Frankon wrote: MInd says MC. Heart says July.
When July wins i want to see Idra and his "July is bad. He doesnt macro as good as I"
lol we've seen plenty of games where idra gets his "macro style game" and still loses lol so he needs to drop the "I'm the worlds best macroer" because he clearly isn't. I've seen him float thousands of minerals in his so called "macro game" lol
All the "MC because he plays protoss" lines are really hitting a nerve with me. It's frustrating not only as a July fan to see them make it out like his level of play means nothing, and also it has to be insulting to MC fans as well. These are pros that aren't saying MC has any better skill, just that he picked the "right" race to play. Way to completely shut down a player's ability just to make a snarky comment on balance.
Also, I really think July has this. His form has been insane this season.
On March 18 2011 22:16 BlazeFury01 wrote: I think desrow has it confused because oGsMc DOES NOT have a great BW background. JulyZerg had a much stronger background. MC won how many games as a pro gamer in Brood war? 1 out of 10...wow
I think JulyZerg will suprise us all. Because in Brood War his strongest MU was ZvP and he's getting better and better at SC2 plus he's focusing only on ZvP because the remaining players left in code S are P. Where MC has to worry about PvP and PvZ. We will see.
I'm not confused sir. I know July's background > MC's background. MC's has a good enough BW background tho and is sick good in sc2 to beat july's handsdown
I see. It looked like you we're saying MC's background > July's. We'll we shall see! I hope for some good games and no all in builds lol
In a Bo7 with July there will be at least 2 games with semi all-ins and some kind of cheese . July doesn't like to play standart all the time it's not his style .
MC is just a better player right now, there's no if ands or buts about it. Idra said it best imo, despite the hidden QQ. Actually, basically all the pros had hidden QQ in there. It's funny how ~ season 2 - 3 protoss was like the most UP race, then zerg gets buffed a bunch and protoss gets 10 second faster phoenix... and all of a sudden protoss is the most OP thing this side of beta roaches lol
Anyway, this isn't a balance thread <.<, it's just funny how players have improved and started using the tools at hand. Maybe now it's Terran and Zerg's turn to adapt and become OP.
There are so many people who think MC will win. Well considering that the last few encounters MC have won against JulyZerg, it is likely true. I just hope that July has come up with a new style to give us plenty of good games and hopefully be a contender for the championship.
Why is that so hard to believe. ZvP is the hardest match up right now.
For Protoss, yeah, there is a timing at around 80-90 supply where zerg can just get 150 food from roach / ling / hydra - gl to any toss dealing with that with 90 supply.
Why is that so hard to believe. ZvP is the hardest match up right now.
For Protoss, yeah, there is a timing at around 80-90 supply where zerg can just get 150 food from roach / ling / hydra - gl to any toss dealing with that with 90 supply.
GO GO July!!!
you say it like a 90 supply protoss army doesnt beat 150 supply zerg.
Why is that so hard to believe. ZvP is the hardest match up right now.
For Protoss, yeah, there is a timing at around 80-90 supply where zerg can just get 150 food from roach / ling / hydra - gl to any toss dealing with that with 90 supply.
GO GO July!!!
you say it like a 90 supply protoss army doesnt beat 150 supply zerg.
Because players like Idra, 150 supply zerg will mean 120 drones, yeah.
Why is that so hard to believe. ZvP is the hardest match up right now.
For Protoss, yeah, there is a timing at around 80-90 supply where zerg can just get 150 food from roach / ling / hydra - gl to any toss dealing with that with 90 supply.
GO GO July!!!
you say it like a 90 supply protoss army doesnt beat 150 supply zerg.
Because players like Idra, 150 supply zerg will mean 120 drones, yeah.
Lol? It will mean 60/70 drones, 80 at max. That leaves 120 supply left in the least for army. Which is 60 zerg units ( roach, hydra, corruptor, muta or infestor ).
4-0 July-MC will be the biggest and best possible outcome for me(Anti-climax is always interesting), also rofl @ everyone's comments about ''well uhm he is protoss so, nice try Julyzerg but no''. Wait and see people, wait and see, July going to upset some people oldschool style.
IMNestea Q: Every Zerg that reached the finals so far has won. What are your thoughts about July's chances? A: July's situation is tougher than when FruitDealer and I went to the finals. After looking at the maps I would rate July's chances at 3 : 7, but I have trust in his experience and unpredictability.
TSL.FruitDealer I hope July does not stress himself out while training, and have trust in his macromanagement skills. I know that it's very easy to get stressed out while training. It will be extremely hard to win, and I hope he comes to the finals as relaxed as possible.
MVP.Genious I think oGsMC will win, although I hope he doesn't because then it will take that much longer to take the Protoss number 1 spot from him. I can help with July's training if he wants me to.
Why is that so hard to believe. ZvP is the hardest match up right now.
For Protoss, yeah, there is a timing at around 80-90 supply where zerg can just get 150 food from roach / ling / hydra - gl to any toss dealing with that with 90 supply.
GO GO July!!!
you say it like a 90 supply protoss army doesnt beat 150 supply zerg.
Because players like Idra, 150 supply zerg will mean 120 drones, yeah.
Lol? It will mean 60/70 drones, 80 at max. That leaves 120 supply left in the least for army. Which is 60 zerg units ( roach, hydra, corruptor, muta or infestor ).
Stop generalizing please.
I think the statement was a bit tongue and cheek. Point still stands. Zerg's advantage feels like it's around that 7-10 or 8-12 minute mark before toss has much of a ball and a zerg can flood roaches to discourage any movement out. (ofc ability to apply counterpressure can be difficult)
MC will win because he's better and is protoss. From 99% of games I saw of July he's baneling busting every terran (aka "aggressive" play called allin in my world), so I'd guess he will do at least one 6pool, maybe 1 macro game and rest will be ling/roach "aggression", but since MC is better he might drop one or two games but either way 4-1 or 4-2 for MC
Surprisingly little mention of the fact that MC is just a better player than July at the moment, regardless of race. It's sad that if MC stomps July it'll be called Protoss imba while if July wins he'll be proclaimed a God, just like Fruitdealer.
I wouldn't count July out since he almost always dictates the pace of the match. But he goes overboard sometimes (and he will) and MC punishes over-aggression hard.
Either way, these will be fun games to watch. I'd rather see an aggressive zerg that can play mindgames. Most other zergs are boring as hell.
Rofl people saying July sucks :D People that aren't even in the GSL say July sucks :D July plays to win that's why he does all those baneling busts and other weird stuff that people think is bad, but if it was bad why did he make it to the finals? IdrA made this macro heavy style popular, but zerg can be aggressive in SC2, even on the very highest level. But MC crushed July before so I think he'll do it again. I'm still hoping that July thinks of something awesome to destroy MC it would be the greatest GSL final ever. Go July!
On March 18 2011 22:29 Frankon wrote: MInd says MC. Heart says July.
When July wins i want to see Idra and his "July is bad. He doesnt macro as good as I"
lol we've seen plenty of games where idra gets his "macro style game" and still loses lol so he needs to drop the "I'm the worlds best macroer" because he clearly isn't. I've seen him float thousands of minerals in his so called "macro game" lol
Probably because he's already maxed and you need to float those minerals to remax quickly
The first season July tried out he failed first round in the qualifiers, and commented later that this was the point he tried to start learning sc2 for sc2, but I still be a lot of weird stuff in his play because of his bw background.
ZvP is very hard right now, so this will make it much harder for July to win, plus MC is a brutally good player.
The thing that suprises me about how people are receiving July is they seem to think he is a one trick pony, which is the opposite. Artosis sounds the way he does when July does something odd because he knows July can do anything. He can Idra style macro, he can cheese, he can play aggressively or passively. That is, his style is that he has no style, and you cannot predict what he will do. As soon as someone starts thinking he can only play 1 way they have already lost. With that said, July is a big time underdog, but i believe the only thing standing between him and victory is motivation.
I should add that July has only done blind cheese 2 of his games this seasongame 2 v MVP and the 6 pool, everything else as been reactionary play. Vs NaDa he got preasured by a bunker attack, then NaDa double expanded behind a wall with a few marines, a baneling bust as a reaction to this greedy play is the right call. Other than the two games i mentioned they have either been straight up macro play or reactionary aggression.
Why is that so hard to believe. ZvP is the hardest match up right now.
For Protoss, yeah, there is a timing at around 80-90 supply where zerg can just get 150 food from roach / ling / hydra - gl to any toss dealing with that with 90 supply.
GO GO July!!!
you say it like a 90 supply protoss army doesnt beat 150 supply zerg.
Because players like Idra, 150 supply zerg will mean 120 drones, yeah.
Lol? It will mean 60/70 drones, 80 at max. That leaves 120 supply left in the least for army. Which is 60 zerg units ( roach, hydra, corruptor, muta or infestor ).
Stop generalizing please.
I think the statement was a bit tongue and cheek. Point still stands. Zerg's advantage feels like it's around that 7-10 or 8-12 minute mark before toss has much of a ball and a zerg can flood roaches to discourage any movement out. (ofc ability to apply counterpressure can be difficult)
Here's the thing though, protoss doesn't HAVE to win around 7 or 10 minutes. Whereas zerg in the midgame needs to have chipped away a fair deal from the protoss forces to be on even footing for the lategame. If a protoss simcities well and turtles on 3 bases, making sure to not be caught off guard by drops or silly tech switches, zerg has no chance in hell to break the protoss.
A zerg on 5 bases is just as lethal to a protoss as a zerg on 3 bases, maybe even less lethal considering less army goes to supply. But due to the protosses immense defenders advantage ( and toss has more incitive to , 200/200 protoss army IS the most costefficient army there is hands down.) zerg has no bussiness taking on the army unless it actually moves out of the base.
Combined this with the fact that MC is a pretty damn fine macro-player, I believe we will see july attack in the midgame, but MC defending amazingly, and eventually crushing through july's tattered economy.
TL DR; Zerg has to win in the early or midgame, protoss doesn't need to win in the early or midgame. July always attacks in the midgame; MC defends and wins.
On March 18 2011 23:40 Saechiis wrote: Surprisingly little mention of the fact that MC is just a better player than July at the moment, regardless of race. It's sad that if MC stomps July it'll be called Protoss imba while if July wins he'll be proclaimed a God, just like Fruitdealer.
I'm honestly suprised people think July is going to win. MC 4-0ing is the most likely thing to happen, maybe a 4-1 if July can hit some kind of timing on him
"It is a very close call. I've been loving how july plays lately and agressive zergs are the most scary one. However, I need to support my protoss brother and I think MC has a great BW background and is very talented at SC2 so I believe he will beat july. Just like he did in Season 3"
u mention MC's "great" BW background and not July's? wtf..
Pre-GSL S3 interview he said "I'm gonna win, so someone good actually wins... well fruitdealer was good but nestea is just bad" And this followed by nestea becoming the undisputable best zerg while idra did nothing.
And now he is saying "julys bad" even though he did something he never did nor will ever do; reach the finals in a GSL.
I really hope July wins for the oldschool factor, but MC is the favorite by miles. Hoping for good games at least.
On March 18 2011 22:33 AJMcSpiffy wrote: All the "MC because he plays protoss" lines are really hitting a nerve with me. It's frustrating not only as a July fan to see them make it out like his level of play means nothing, and also it has to be insulting to MC fans as well. These are pros that aren't saying MC has any better skill, just that he picked the "right" race to play. Way to completely shut down a player's ability just to make a snarky comment on balance.
Also, I really think July has this. His form has been insane this season.
I agree, I mean would anyone bet on any of the pros to beat MC or July in a BO7? Still its a great post to have and I like that the pros are sharing their views and having a bit of a laugh
I dont agree on the result though, MC to win it 4-1
On March 18 2011 16:38 Saeglopur wrote: Reading pros call July "bad" or "trash" is the equivalent of some minor league AA scrub badmouthing the skills of a regular MLB player. This is particularly amusing when the offender is TT1, whose only noteworthy accomplishment in Starcraft is hacking.
We are all entitled to our opinions as spectators but so-called pros should really take the higher ground and watch what they say.
Can't wait for e-sports to grow up.
MC 4 - 1 July
My thoughts exactly....all of these "pros" who commented didn't have 1/10th of his skill in BW so for them to call him bad is hilarious at best.
On March 18 2011 23:31 nokz88 wrote: Some other pro's thoughts about the finals:
IMNestea Q: Every Zerg that reached the finals so far has won. What are your thoughts about July's chances? A: July's situation is tougher than when FruitDealer and I went to the finals. After looking at the maps I would rate July's chances at 3 : 7, but I have trust in his experience and unpredictability.
TSL.FruitDealer I hope July does not stress himself out while training, and have trust in his macromanagement skills. I know that it's very easy to get stressed out while training. It will be extremely hard to win, and I hope he comes to the finals as relaxed as possible.
MVP.Genious I think oGsMC will win, although I hope he doesn't because then it will take that much longer to take the Protoss number 1 spot from him. I can help with July's training if he wants me to.
On March 18 2011 23:31 nokz88 wrote: Some other pro's thoughts about the finals:
IMNestea Q: Every Zerg that reached the finals so far has won. What are your thoughts about July's chances? A: July's situation is tougher than when FruitDealer and I went to the finals. After looking at the maps I would rate July's chances at 3 : 7, but I have trust in his experience and unpredictability.
TSL.FruitDealer I hope July does not stress himself out while training, and have trust in his macromanagement skills. I know that it's very easy to get stressed out while training. It will be extremely hard to win, and I hope he comes to the finals as relaxed as possible.
MVP.Genious I think oGsMC will win, although I hope he doesn't because then it will take that much longer to take the Protoss number 1 spot from him. I can help with July's training if he wants me to.
I would wager most of the, "Toss OP," comments were made rather tongue-in-cheek, save IdrA's of course.
Ultimately, I think MC's going to have the advantage. July's great and has improved his SC2 play a lot, but I can't see his generally ling and bling heavy armies doing well against MC's signature 5 or 6-gate sentry pushes. Granted, I can't remember any notable ZvP games July played this season, so he might have another strategy up his sleeve.
On March 18 2011 23:31 nokz88 wrote: Some other pro's thoughts about the finals:
IMNestea Q: Every Zerg that reached the finals so far has won. What are your thoughts about July's chances? A: July's situation is tougher than when FruitDealer and I went to the finals. After looking at the maps I would rate July's chances at 3 : 7, but I have trust in his experience and unpredictability.
TSL.FruitDealer I hope July does not stress himself out while training, and have trust in his macromanagement skills. I know that it's very easy to get stressed out while training. It will be extremely hard to win, and I hope he comes to the finals as relaxed as possible.
MVP.Genious I think oGsMC will win, although I hope he doesn't because then it will take that much longer to take the Protoss number 1 spot from him. I can help with July's training if he wants me to.
On March 18 2011 20:33 xbankx wrote: lol, that is idra. He is entertaining though because he is oblivious to everything and think he is the best and he only lose games due to imbalance. Apparently he doesnt ever play bad, which is why he is a scrub who goes top 8 most of the time
A "scrub" who goes top 8 most of the time? That doesn't really make sense.
It's a pity that this finals probably won't be remembered as a good one if MC wins. MC is an amazing player, but if he wins everyone will attribute it to him being protoss in pvz, when he's been dominating just about everyone.
On March 18 2011 23:31 nokz88 wrote: Some other pro's thoughts about the finals:
IMNestea Q: Every Zerg that reached the finals so far has won. What are your thoughts about July's chances? A: July's situation is tougher than when FruitDealer and I went to the finals. After looking at the maps I would rate July's chances at 3 : 7, but I have trust in his experience and unpredictability.
TSL.FruitDealer I hope July does not stress himself out while training, and have trust in his macromanagement skills. I know that it's very easy to get stressed out while training. It will be extremely hard to win, and I hope he comes to the finals as relaxed as possible.
MVP.Genious I think oGsMC will win, although I hope he doesn't because then it will take that much longer to take the Protoss number 1 spot from him. I can help with July's training if he wants me to.
On March 19 2011 02:45 Zorgaz wrote: Funny have almost all None P players kinda say MC cause he is P and P>Z xd.
Kinda how i reasoned while doing my TSL bracket i guess ^^
Not "almost all". Aside from two idiots who I'm sure are actually serious, the other few appear to be joking.
Posts like this, ahhhhhhhhhh.
On March 19 2011 02:45 HowSoOnIsNow wrote: I`m no IdrA fan, and his obsession with the obligatory macro play is going to be his downfall, but comparing him to Combat-EX is just laughable.
No it's not, they're both a disgrace to the sc2 community.
Only difference is Idra has actually accomplished something. Not nearly as much as the player he's critizing I might add, and I'm certain he never will because July is on a different level.
But yeah it's laughable to see people complain about CombatEX BMing Idra when the only reason he's so popular is because he can't grow up.
On March 18 2011 23:31 nokz88 wrote: Some other pro's thoughts about the finals:
IMNestea Q: Every Zerg that reached the finals so far has won. What are your thoughts about July's chances? A: July's situation is tougher than when FruitDealer and I went to the finals. After looking at the maps I would rate July's chances at 3 : 7, but I have trust in his experience and unpredictability.
TSL.FruitDealer I hope July does not stress himself out while training, and have trust in his macromanagement skills. I know that it's very easy to get stressed out while training. It will be extremely hard to win, and I hope he comes to the finals as relaxed as possible.
MVP.Genious I think oGsMC will win, although I hope he doesn't because then it will take that much longer to take the Protoss number 1 spot from him. I can help with July's training if he wants me to.
Q: Your opponent is ieS-Ciara, a Zerg from Denmark. Do you know anything about him?
All I know is that he’s not that great a player.
-interview with oGs.MC
What a scrub, he has opinions and everything, he obviously can't know what he's talking about, or have an honest opinion! He sounds ridiculous, what with his opinions and what not, he really needs to think before he talks! Fie on him! Rabble, Rabble, Rabble! I shall post in a forum about my chagrin on the subject and he will read it and be ashamed!
The difference is that it`s Mc, a GSL champion, double finalist with a good shot to be the first player to win the GSL twice, the best Protoss on the planet.....and on the other end of the spectrum, there`s TT1 claiming that an exBw osl champion, who`s in the final after his first season in Code S (Technically second, but still) sucks. TT1, a guy with a pretty small pedigree and a shady past.
I didnt even talk about IdrA, because he can somehow back it up with a few titles, but TT1?
Confucius said it best, He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good.
First few times I saw july play I thought he really sucked. Then I noticed that he kept winning even though his play style didnt seem that great. Hoping he can prove everyone wrong and show that his style can own a Protoss like MC.
This series will show if July just benefited from lots of luck in his GSL run or if he can truly be seen as one of the most scary zergs in sc2.
On March 19 2011 03:03 shire wrote: july will 4-0 MC like when he won his 3rd OSL title + golden mouse, eventhough almost everyone doubt he would win. you heard it here first!
you aren't the first person to say july will 4-0 mc. Theres a entire fanclub of his who ignore reality. lol.
On March 19 2011 03:03 Srule wrote: First few times I saw july play I thought he really sucked. Then I noticed that he kept winning even though his play style didnt seem that great. Hoping he can prove everyone wrong and show that his style can own a Protoss like MC.
This series will show if July just benefited from lots of luck in his GSL run or if he can truly be seen as one of the most scary zergs in sc2.
Even though MVP's slumping, I hardly think you can attribute him being taken out due to pure luck. One of July's biggest strengths is that he never over-produces drones, and knows exactly when his opponent's most vulnerable. He's gotten a lot better this season, and it shows.
On March 19 2011 02:45 Zorgaz wrote: Funny have almost all None P players kinda say MC cause he is P and P>Z xd.
Kinda how i reasoned while doing my TSL bracket i guess ^^
Not "almost all". Aside from two idiots who I'm sure are actually serious, the other few appear to be joking.
Posts like this, ahhhhhhhhhh.
Yes I'm sure they said it as ''kind of a joke''. But when the ''joke'' is so universal it usually reflects reality in some way.
I'm not saying P>Z as a race. But the fact that Z players are struggling more with the matchup with P players is a fact... Doesn't mean the matchup is imbalanced, just means that the Z still haven't figured everything out yet. Just as when everyone cried about the marauder (lol). It has received 0 changes yet no good player really seems to feel its ''OP'' anymore.
On March 19 2011 02:58 Deadlyfish wrote: I feel like July is like Rain. Cheesed his way to the final, and clearly isnt the second best player, so he will get slaughtered by MC
Balance doesnt even matter. If MC played zerg and July played protoss i'd still give the win to MC. So much better.
Wtf? How can you compare July to Rain? His 3:2 series over NaDa, what was that, a fluke? Even though almost all of his wins were macro games?
Rain is trash, and the only reason he's back in Code S is because he had the weakest Up/Down Group. July is a great player, but definitely not in the same league as MC and I still think MC will win, but don't pretend like all July can do is cheese.
I don't see how July is "bad". He's doing as much as anyone to develop Zerg, finding new creative styles, and dominating match-ups he should lose. If July's bad then all Zergs are bad. Will he beat MC? I don't know, but it will be epic.
July has some questionable builds and strategies, but the guy has game sense and probably more experience than any other player. While unlikely, I could definitely see him upsetting.
While the rational part of me says, yeah, MC has got this in the bag, I still want to root for July. Another one-sided GSL finals would be disappointing.
MC because he's so solid, he hasn't lost any games so far or very few, right? July tends to do split-second decisions that sometimes rip his opponents apart, sometimes make him lose the game. I'd just say zerg is at a severe disadvantage against MC's style of protoss.
On March 18 2011 16:38 Saeglopur wrote: Reading pros call July "bad" or "trash" is the equivalent of some minor league AA scrub badmouthing the skills of a regular MLB player.
Just like you could make that comparison about some jobber in the forums making those kind of comments about some of the best players in NA?
This is particularly amusing when the offender is TT1, whose only noteworthy accomplishment in Starcraft is hacking.
And IdrA, who happens to be the best zerg outside of Korea, but I guess he clearly doesn't know anything either.
Yeah, and TT1, who's only achievement is hacking...and placing second to the best foreigner Terran at the last big American LAN, and being top 5 in seeding for this season, and getting payed to play a game he loves. All fairly trivial accomplishments.
I honestly can't believe this thread is still being a shitfest on TT1 and IdrA. Why do you want to know their opinions on the subject if you're just going to bash them? Particularly the people who are outraged on how the "lesser" IdrA would dare talk about someone supposedly better than he is (lol), and then in turn try to discredit him for his play? The irony is palpable.
On March 18 2011 16:38 Saeglopur wrote: Reading pros call July "bad" or "trash" is the equivalent of some minor league AA scrub badmouthing the skills of a regular MLB player.
Just like you could make that comparison about some jobber in the forums making those kind of comments about some of the best players in NA?
This is particularly amusing when the offender is TT1, whose only noteworthy accomplishment in Starcraft is hacking.
And IdrA, who happens to be the best zerg outside of Korea, but I guess he clearly doesn't know anything either.
Yeah, and TT1, who's only achievement is hacking...and placing second to the best foreigner Terran at the last big American LAN, and being top 5 in seeding for this season, and getting payed to play a game he loves. All fairly trivial accomplishments.
I honestly can't believe this thread is still being a shitfest on TT1 and IdrA. Why do you want to know their opinions on the subject if you're just going to bash them? Particularly the people who are outraged on how the "lesser" IdrA would dare talk about someone supposedly better than he is (lol), and then in turn try to discredit him for his play? The irony is palpable.
We're bashing them? Pretty sure they went and bashed one of the greatest zergs of all time without rhyme or reason. They were stupid comments of which they have no right to make.
On March 18 2011 16:38 Saeglopur wrote: Reading pros call July "bad" or "trash" is the equivalent of some minor league AA scrub badmouthing the skills of a regular MLB player.
Just like you could make that comparison about some jobber in the forums making those kind of comments about some of the best players in NA?
This is particularly amusing when the offender is TT1, whose only noteworthy accomplishment in Starcraft is hacking.
And IdrA, who happens to be the best zerg outside of Korea, but I guess he clearly doesn't know anything either.
Yeah, and TT1, who's only achievement is hacking...and placing second to the best foreigner Terran at the last big American LAN, and being top 5 in seeding for this season, and getting payed to play a game he loves. All fairly trivial accomplishments.
I honestly can't believe this thread is still being a shitfest on TT1 and IdrA. Why do you want to know their opinions on the subject if you're just going to bash them? Particularly the people who are outraged on how the "lesser" IdrA would dare talk about someone supposedly better than he is (lol), and then in turn try to discredit him for his play? The irony is palpable.
We're bashing them? Pretty sure they went and bashed one of the greatest zergs of all time without rhyme or reason. They were stupid comments of which they have no right to make.
But he isn't one of the greatest zergs of all time in Starcraft 2. They are far more justified making those comments than all the people trashing idra in this very thread.
On March 19 2011 03:48 dunc wrote: Not sure why you'd lol at that? July is miles better than Idra.
Thats where your wrong.
Well the results in SC1&2 speak otherwise...
edit:
>>But he isn't one of the greatest zergs of all time in Starcraft 2. They are far more justified making those comments than all the people trashing idra in this very thread.<<
Well, not yet... but he *is* playing in a GSL finals today! (and I never said it was right that anyone was bashing Idra's gameplay, but his comment sure is dumb and is worthy of being "trashed"!)
I want July to win because it would be totally bad ass, and seeing all these players say what they think about it would only make it even sweeter. Unfortunately for July, MC is one of the truly best at the game and Protoss is at worst even with zerg but most of all MC is just a boss so he's gonna win it. Still hoping for July to pull something out of his hat, he can do it if anyone.
On March 19 2011 03:48 dunc wrote: Not sure why you'd lol at that? July is miles better than Idra.
Thats where your wrong.
hm who's had the better results? Who is in the finals of the most important and most competetive tournament in the world right now?
No, he is better. He actually produces results rather than gets on shows to cry about his race and blame all his losses on that. He pushes himself and improves.
On March 19 2011 03:48 dunc wrote: Not sure why you'd lol at that? July is miles better than Idra.
Thats where your wrong.
hm who's had the better results? Who is in the finals of the most important and most competetive tournament in the world right now?
No, he is better. He actually produces results rather than gets on shows to cry about his race and blame all his losses on that. He pushes himself and improves.
Until this gsl his results were subpar and his matches in code A were painful to watch. Whether he just got lucky this season or not remains to be seen.
He beat Nada without bothering to build a Hive, if I allow myself to assume that someone told him about the existence of broodlords and ultras in SC2 between the semi's and now he'll win.
If no one told him he'll probably still win but I'll get to listen to a few hours of Tastosis saying "he should probably get Broodlords...."
On March 19 2011 03:55 Gescom wrote: Well, not yet... but he *is* playing in a GSL finals today! (and I never said it was right that anyone was bashing Idra's gameplay, but his comment sure is dumb and is worthy of being "trashed"!)
Well, you're saying that he has no right to comment on July because obviously July's better (lol) because he's placing better in 1 tournament (where every season prior he finished well below him). You then proceed to say that his comment was "dumb" and worthy of being trashed.
So, by your reasoning, in order to be uniquely qualified to speak on IdrA's qualification to talk about someone else's play and classify it as "dumb" you need better tournament results than him. Considering your on these forums speaking English, I find that highly unlikely unless your name happens to be Jonathan Walsh. Otherwise it's just hypocritical.
Look, you're perfectly justified in saying that you think July is good and disagreeing with a pro player, but saying that their comments are dumb, berating them, etc, particularly when they're taking time out of their schedules to provide something cool for you do read, is ridiculous. It's fine to say something like...
"I disagree because July played well this season, and his aggressive play style might catch MC off guard considering he's usually pretty overconfident!"
It's less than good to say something like...
"Lol, IdrA calling July bad?! The best he ever finished was 8th, what does he know!"
One's productive, and one's not. I'm not singling you out, I'm just trying to comment to all the people who just come to these forums to cause drama. Enjoy the content people are going out of their way to bring you and don't shit on the players who are contributing time to bring you that content.
On March 19 2011 03:55 Gescom wrote: Well, not yet... but he *is* playing in a GSL finals today! (and I never said it was right that anyone was bashing Idra's gameplay, but his comment sure is dumb and is worthy of being "trashed"!)
Well, you're saying that he has no right to comment on July because obviously July's better (lol) because he's placing better in 1 tournament (where every season prior he finished well below him). You then proceed to say that his comment was "dumb" and worthy of being trashed.
So, by your reasoning, in order to be uniquely qualified to speak on IdrA's qualification to talk about someone else's play and classify it as "dumb" you need better tournament results than him. Considering your on these forums speaking English, I find that hardly unlikely unless your name happens to be Jonathan Walsh. Otherwise it's just hypocritical.
Look, you're perfectly justified in saying that you think July is good and disagreeing with a pro player, but saying that their comments are dumb, berating them, etc, particularly when they're taking time out of their schedules to provide something cool for you do read, is ridiculous. It's fine to say something like...
"I disagree because July played well this season, and his aggressive play style might catch MC off guard considering he's usually pretty overconfident!"
It's less than good to say something like...
"Lol, IdrA calling July bad?! The best he ever finished was 8th, what does he know!"
One's productive, and one's not. I'm not singling you out, I'm just trying to comment to all the people who just come to these forums to cause drama. Enjoy the content people are going out of their way to bring you and don't shit on the players who are contributing time to bring you that content.
Damn, you're annoying.
It's not that you can't comment on a player but as a pro you're going to be quoted and as such you should be more careful with your wording. Idra is being a retard. As July is proving at the moment, he's better than Idra considering he's in the finals of the most competetive tournament in the world and what has Idra accomplished lately?
On March 19 2011 03:55 Gescom wrote: Well, not yet... but he *is* playing in a GSL finals today! (and I never said it was right that anyone was bashing Idra's gameplay, but his comment sure is dumb and is worthy of being "trashed"!)
Well, you're saying that he has no right to comment on July because obviously July's better (lol) because he's placing better in 1 tournament (where every season prior he finished well below him). You then proceed to say that his comment was "dumb" and worthy of being trashed.
So, by your reasoning, in order to be uniquely qualified to speak on IdrA's qualification to talk about someone else's play and classify it as "dumb" you need better tournament results than him. Considering your on these forums speaking English, I find that hardly unlikely unless your name happens to be Jonathan Walsh. Otherwise it's just hypocritical.
Look, you're perfectly justified in saying that you think July is good and disagreeing with a pro player, but saying that their comments are dumb, berating them, etc, particularly when they're taking time out of their schedules to provide something cool for you do read, is ridiculous. It's fine to say something like...
"I disagree because July played well this season, and his aggressive play style might catch MC off guard considering he's usually pretty overconfident!"
It's less than good to say something like...
"Lol, IdrA calling July bad?! The best he ever finished was 8th, what does he know!"
One's productive, and one's not. I'm not singling you out, I'm just trying to comment to all the people who just come to these forums to cause drama. Enjoy the content people are going out of their way to bring you and don't shit on the players who are contributing time to bring you that content.
I'm not saying IdrA has no right comment on his play because July is better. I'm saying, someone who is a REAL champion at something doesn't come out and say "oh, so and so sucks". Given July's history in SC, I think he deserves the utmost of respect. No one talked shit about Michael Jordan on the Wizards or Wayne Gretzky on the Rangers. IdrA nor TT1 should not be talking shit about other pro players' gameplay. It's a "dumb" comment by IdrA to trash talk another player so non-chalantly. It's not good for the game. Period.
>>particularly when they're taking time out of their schedules to provide something cool for you do read, is ridiculous<<
I'm sure it was difficult for IdrA/TT1 to take time to post "lol july sux". It was very cool and interesting for me to read that.
>>Look, you're perfectly justified in saying that you think July is good and disagreeing with a pro player, but saying that their comments are dumb, berating them, etc, particularly when they're taking time out of their schedules to provide something cool for you do read, is ridiculous. It's fine to say something like...
"I disagree because July played well this season, and his aggressive play style might catch MC off guard considering he's usually pretty overconfident!"<<
I'd say it was dumb for ANY player to make that comment regardless of their skill level.
You can keep trying wiggling out of the "but so did Rain and Rainbow" logic with tenuous, opinionated claims about the quality of games they played, but the point stands. If they were saying the same thing about Rain, you wouldn't be here arguing. You should also note that they were specifically asked to state their opinions and so they did.
I'm surprised so many pros think MC will win only "because he's protoss".
MC is really really good and has shown a consistently higher level of play than july for months. Is it that hard to believe he might win due to being better currently and not due to balance issues?
>>You should also note that they were specifically asked to state their opinions and so they did<<
They're professional players. You don't make those comments, you be gracious -- especially when talking about a huge respected community member. That should be pretty easy to grasp... but, apparently it's not; and that's the reason esports will never be as big in the west as it is in Korea.
On March 19 2011 04:19 tarath wrote: I'm surprised so many pros think MC will win only "because he's protoss".
MC is really really good and has shown a consistently higher level of play than july for months. Is it that hard to believe he might win due to being better and not due to balance issues?
I'm fairly confident when saying all the quoted players who invoked "protoss" actually think MC is very good and the better SC2 player currently.
On March 19 2011 04:19 Gescom wrote: >>You should also note that they were specifically asked to state their opinions and so they did<<
They're professional players. You don't make those comments, you be gracious.
That's purely an opinion and you are of course entitled to it. However, I, and apparently many others, would rather see them answering honestly.
On March 19 2011 04:19 tarath wrote: I'm surprised so many pros think MC will win only "because he's protoss".
MC is really really good and has shown a consistently higher level of play than july for months. Is it that hard to believe he might win due to being better and not due to balance issues?
I'm fairly confident when saying all the quoted players who invoked "protoss" actually think MC is very good and the better SC2 player currently.
Hopefully this is the case. It would be sad if MC doesn't get credit for how badass he is because toss has done well this season.
I hope people keep in mind that he also won season 3 when every other toss was getting roflstomped by every terran who knew how to 2base all in.
MC has been an amazing player throughout the various stages of the metagame and implying he'd only win due to imba is shitty.
On March 18 2011 16:38 Saeglopur wrote: Reading pros call July "bad" or "trash" is the equivalent of some minor league AA scrub badmouthing the skills of a regular MLB player.
Just like you could make that comparison about some jobber in the forums making those kind of comments about some of the best players in NA?
This is particularly amusing when the offender is TT1, whose only noteworthy accomplishment in Starcraft is hacking.
And IdrA, who happens to be the best zerg outside of Korea, but I guess he clearly doesn't know anything either.
Yeah, and TT1, who's only achievement is hacking...and placing second to the best foreigner Terran at the last big American LAN, and being top 5 in seeding for this season, and getting payed to play a game he loves. All fairly trivial accomplishments.
I honestly can't believe this thread is still being a shitfest on TT1 and IdrA. Why do you want to know their opinions on the subject if you're just going to bash them? Particularly the people who are outraged on how the "lesser" IdrA would dare talk about someone supposedly better than he is (lol), and then in turn try to discredit him for his play? The irony is palpable.
One is a hacker that I never liked much. The other is a good macro zerg who qqs all day long. Both their opinion means nothing. Idra will QQ when he wins 99% of the game because the last 1% obviously got to be from imbalance. Idra QQed when roaches were 1 supply and you know he QQs when he was playing the best race in BW(most successful) and still said the least successful race in BW is OP. You can't stop the guy. The guy is a scrub in the end. You can never be the best when you QQ that much. Boxer did not become a legend because he was like "toss op, zerg op" in bw. He effing sat down and came up with new strats. That is the difference between a legend and a scrub. Idra thinks he figured out everything about the game in 8 month. Brood war is still evolving today after like 10 years.
Guess what, the difference between some "lesser players" on the forum is when we lose we lost because we know we played worse. When he loses, its gotta be imba.
On March 18 2011 14:45 Mr.marine wrote: IMMVP lost 4 out of 5 games to slayers_alicia amd MVP_genius the by far best terran in the world lossing four out of five too those to guys i think the pros might be on to something! P>T P>Z
You know supernova 2-0ed alica just days before that right?
On March 19 2011 04:25 Gescom wrote: @syllogism: I'm sure the sponsors love those comments as well. lol
Their sponsors probably don't know, but their managers likely recognize these comments are completely inconsequential.
By the way do you think MC's ego/confidence is winning or losing him fans, especially in Korea.
Generally speaking, I'm under the impression that the Korean audience greatly dislikes cocky attitude in players. I remember Genius being berated for this a while back. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Even FBH was a hugely polarizing figure, and 99% of TL fucking loves the guy. (myself included)
Lol i like how idra calls july bad. I wonder if he would've called MVP bad before MVP got eliminated from the ro32 or got bumped down to code a. This game is too volatile to call these finals so confidently imo
On March 18 2011 14:45 Mr.marine wrote: IMMVP lost 4 out of 5 games to slayers_alicia amd MVP_genius the by far best terran in the world lossing four out of five too those to guys i think the pros might be on to something! P>T P>Z
You know supernova 2-0ed alica just days before that right?
MVP just played like shit.
Alicia pulled a proxy stargate that got scouted.
Didn't play standard at all against Supernova, he didn't care about Code A once he got into top 8.
On March 18 2011 14:45 Mr.marine wrote: IMMVP lost 4 out of 5 games to slayers_alicia amd MVP_genius the by far best terran in the world lossing four out of five too those to guys i think the pros might be on to something! P>T P>Z
You know supernova 2-0ed alica just days before that right?
MVP just played like shit.
And Polt 2-0'd Supernova. So does that mean Polt > Mvp???
On March 18 2011 16:38 Saeglopur wrote: Reading pros call July "bad" or "trash" is the equivalent of some minor league AA scrub badmouthing the skills of a regular MLB player.
Just like you could make that comparison about some jobber in the forums making those kind of comments about some of the best players in NA?
This is particularly amusing when the offender is TT1, whose only noteworthy accomplishment in Starcraft is hacking.
And IdrA, who happens to be the best zerg outside of Korea, but I guess he clearly doesn't know anything either.
Yeah, and TT1, who's only achievement is hacking...and placing second to the best foreigner Terran at the last big American LAN, and being top 5 in seeding for this season, and getting payed to play a game he loves. All fairly trivial accomplishments.
I honestly can't believe this thread is still being a shitfest on TT1 and IdrA. Why do you want to know their opinions on the subject if you're just going to bash them? Particularly the people who are outraged on how the "lesser" IdrA would dare talk about someone supposedly better than he is (lol), and then in turn try to discredit him for his play? The irony is palpable.
One is a hacker that I never liked much. The other is a good macro zerg who qqs all day long. Both their opinion means nothing. Idra will QQ when he wins 99% of the game because the last 1% obviously got to be from imbalance. Idra QQed when roaches were 1 supply and you know he QQs when he was playing the best race in BW(most successful) and still said the least successful race in BW is OP. You can't stop the guy. The guy is a scrub in the end. You can never be the best when you QQ that much. Boxer did not become a legend because he was like "toss op, zerg op" in bw. He effing sat down and came up with new strats. That is the difference between a legend and a scrub. Idra thinks he figured out everything about the game in 8 month. Brood war is still evolving today after like 10 years.
Guess what, the difference between some "lesser players" on the forum is when we lose we lost because we know we played worse. When he loses, its gotta be imba.
Clearly, one of the best foreigners in the world is a scrub. I now see the error of my ways and shall take every opportunity to show my chagrin at his outrageous opinions! Clearly I, JoeBlow 64792 have A much better grasp of what is and is not really good play! I am entitled to my opinion while he is not! Rabble! Rabble, Rabble, Rabble! Excuse me while I spend the rest of my day guffawing about this outrageous content that people went out of their way to bring me! Guffaw!
On March 18 2011 16:38 Saeglopur wrote: Reading pros call July "bad" or "trash" is the equivalent of some minor league AA scrub badmouthing the skills of a regular MLB player.
Just like you could make that comparison about some jobber in the forums making those kind of comments about some of the best players in NA?
This is particularly amusing when the offender is TT1, whose only noteworthy accomplishment in Starcraft is hacking.
And IdrA, who happens to be the best zerg outside of Korea, but I guess he clearly doesn't know anything either.
Yeah, and TT1, who's only achievement is hacking...and placing second to the best foreigner Terran at the last big American LAN, and being top 5 in seeding for this season, and getting payed to play a game he loves. All fairly trivial accomplishments.
I honestly can't believe this thread is still being a shitfest on TT1 and IdrA. Why do you want to know their opinions on the subject if you're just going to bash them? Particularly the people who are outraged on how the "lesser" IdrA would dare talk about someone supposedly better than he is (lol), and then in turn try to discredit him for his play? The irony is palpable.
One is a hacker that I never liked much. The other is a good macro zerg who qqs all day long. Both their opinion means nothing. Idra will QQ when he wins 99% of the game because the last 1% obviously got to be from imbalance. Idra QQed when roaches were 1 supply and you know he QQs when he was playing the best race in BW(most successful) and still said the least successful race in BW is OP. You can't stop the guy. The guy is a scrub in the end. You can never be the best when you QQ that much. Boxer did not become a legend because he was like "toss op, zerg op" in bw. He effing sat down and came up with new strats. That is the difference between a legend and a scrub. Idra thinks he figured out everything about the game in 8 month. Brood war is still evolving today after like 10 years.
Guess what, the difference between some "lesser players" on the forum is when we lose we lost because we know we played worse. When he loses, its gotta be imba.
Clearly, one of the best foreigners in the world is a scrub. I now see the error of my ways and shall take every opportunity to show my chagrin at his outrageous opinions! Clearly I, JoeBlow 64792 have A much better grasp of what is and is not really good play! I am entitled to my opinion while he is not! Rabble! Rabble, Rabble, Rabble! Excuse me while I spend the rest of my day guffawing about this outrageous content that people went out of their way to bring me! Guffaw!
yes thx for the 5 word comment. You make it sound like the time for them to say "MC, MC protoss. JULY bad" has so much effort. I never liked Idra or TT1 in the past and yes Idra is a scrub. Congratz on being one of the best foreign zergs.
Means they still suck.. Balance would have 8 in top 20 not 2-3.
Those rankings shouldn't say much considering you have players on there that proved to be not cut out for Code S or A like Makaprime ( sitting on the 10th spot ).
Means they still suck.. Balance would have 8 in top 20 not 2-3.
Now i don't really want to start anything because i don't really know if protoss is imba or not, but those stats dont really mean shit. There are too many variables involved to determine whether or not a race is balanced or not just based on the top 20 players on sc2ranks.
Means they still suck.. Balance would have 8 in top 20 not 2-3.
Those rankings shouldn't say much considering you have players on there that proved to be not cut out for Code S or A like Makaprime ( sitting on the 10th spot ).
Use whatever stats you like GSL wins, tounament wins. win % etc protoss come up short.
Have no idea why AriseN flammes that much. Weird. Each time a foreigner is criticize for their comments, he comes in and defend them for the life of his. Are you even a TT1 fan? Seriously?
Is July the best Zerg out there? Not yet. Even if he wins against MC, he`s not the best in my book still. IMLosirA, IMNeastea and Dongrae are better in my mind. Is July a better Zerg than IdrA, in terms of achievement in Korea, yeah. Is July a better player than TT1? I wouldn't understand how can one argue against that. TT1 is still an amateur. He got talent, but still an amateur. I``m not saying he has no chance of becoming Pro,mostly if the north American scene expands, but the guy has to check himself before he wreck himself.
When i was 16, i`d use such qualifiers when i wanted to emit an opinion, problem is that he`s not 16. No one with an once of professionalism would say that July sucks. There`s no respect amongst the self called pros, that`s not cool at all.
Means they still suck.. Balance would have 8 in top 20 not 2-3.
Now i don't really want to start anything because i don't really know if protoss is imba or not, but those stats dont really mean shit. There are too many variables involved to determine whether or not a race is balanced or not just based on the top 20 players on sc2ranks.
EDIT: just as the others above me said.
Those are opinions. I myself think FF will be a problem and already are with MC. But Math don't lie.
Means they still suck.. Balance would have 8 in top 20 not 2-3.
Now i don't really want to start anything because i don't really know if protoss is imba or not, but those stats dont really mean shit. There are too many variables involved to determine whether or not a race is balanced or not just based on the top 20 players on sc2ranks.
EDIT: just as the others above me said.
Those are opinions. I myself think FF will be a problem and already are with MC. But Math don't lie.
You don't know math. Just give it up. Don't post about balance.
On March 19 2011 04:58 HowSoOnIsNow wrote: Have no idea why AriseN flammes that much. Weird. Each time a foreigner is criticize for their comments, he comes in and defend them for the life of his. Are you even a TT1 fan? Seriously?
Is July the best Zerg out there? Not yet. Even if he wins against MC, he`s not the best in my book still. IMLosirA, IMNeastea and Dongrae are better in my mind. Is July a better Zerg than IdrA, in terms of achievement in Korea, yeah. Is July a better player than TT1? I wouldn't understand how can one argue against that. TT1 is still an amateur. He got talent, but still an amateur. I``m not saying he has no chance of becoming Pro,mostly if the north American scene expands, but the guy has to check himself before he wreck himself.
When i was 16, i`d use such qualifiers when i wanted to emit an opinion, problem is that he`s not 16. No one with an once of professionalism would say that July sucks. There`s no respect amongst the self called pros, that`s not cool at all.
This pretty much sums it up.
Hope we can stop the arguing now. I wish we had Pro Picks from Korea like last time so people would see the huge attitude difference, it's so much better when people recognize skill and give credit where credit's due.
don't think any of us should take some of the more bold comments that serious. Of course they realize they're good players. But the real comments from the other pros were spot on, pvz looks fairly P favored in most pro matches and this is MC who is the best, so 4-0 or 4-1 I predict.
On March 19 2011 04:58 HowSoOnIsNow wrote: Have no idea why AriseN flammes that much. Weird. Each time a foreigner is criticize for their comments, he comes in and defend them for the life of his. Are you even a TT1 fan? Seriously?
Is July the best Zerg out there? Not yet. Even if he wins against MC, he`s not the best in my book still. IMLosirA, IMNeastea and Dongrae are better in my mind. Is July a better Zerg than IdrA, in terms of achievement in Korea, yeah. Is July a better player than TT1? I wouldn't understand how can one argue against that. TT1 is still an amateur. He got talent, but still an amateur. I``m not saying he has no chance of becoming Pro,mostly if the north American scene expands, but the guy has to check himself before he wreck himself.
When i was 16, i`d use such qualifiers when i wanted to emit an opinion, problem is that he`s not 16. No one with an once of professionalism would say that July sucks. There`s no respect amongst the self called pros, that`s not cool at all.
This pretty much sums it up.
Hope we can stop the arguing now. I wish we had Pro Picks from Korea like last time so people would see the huge attitude difference, it's so much better when people recognize skill and give credit where credit's due.
And again, you can see the difference in between the Korean PROS who act professionally and construct interesting opinions on the match instead of insipid and uninspired one liners about the said player. I`d like to have TT1 tell that to July`s face. Because, at least in Boxing, they do just that.They don`t hide behind their internet stature. But you know what, he wouldn't have the guts to say that, he'd change his whole stance if he' be in front of him.
Again i don't want to sound like him hating on the guy, because i'm always glad when a fellow Canadian do well in the SC world, but i can't agree with his attitude. You got to keep things real.
On March 19 2011 04:58 HowSoOnIsNow wrote: Have no idea why AriseN flammes that much. Weird. Each time a foreigner is criticize for their comments, he comes in and defend them for the life of his. Are you even a TT1 fan? Seriously?
Is July the best Zerg out there? Not yet. Even if he wins against MC, he`s not the best in my book still. IMLosirA, IMNeastea and Dongrae are better in my mind. Is July a better Zerg than IdrA, in terms of achievement in Korea, yeah. Is July a better player than TT1? I wouldn't understand how can one argue against that. TT1 is still an amateur. He got talent, but still an amateur. I``m not saying he has no chance of becoming Pro,mostly if the north American scene expands, but the guy has to check himself before he wreck himself.
When i was 16, i`d use such qualifiers when i wanted to emit an opinion, problem is that he`s not 16. No one with an once of professionalism would say that July sucks. There`s no respect amongst the self called pros, that`s not cool at all.
This pretty much sums it up.
Hope we can stop the arguing now. I wish we had Pro Picks from Korea like last time so people would see the huge attitude difference, it's so much better when people recognize skill and give credit where credit's due.
And again, you can see the difference in between the Korean PROS who act professionally and construct interesting opinions on the match instead of insipid and uninspired one liners about the said player. I`d like to have TT1 tell that to July`s face. Because, at least in Boxing, they do just that.They don`t hide behind their internet stature. But you know what, he wouldn't have the guts to say that, he'd change his whole stance if he' be in front of him.
Again i don't want to sound like him hating on the guy, because i'm always glad when a fellow Canadian do well in the SC world, but i can't agree with his attitude. You got to keep things real.
Isn't the whole korean thing more of a cultural difference than anything else? I mean, us North American people are dickheads by standard. Polite people are less common to come by than trolls, both in real life and on the internet. I like to think most of us are used to it.
...and enmity between players doesn't hurt anything. It adds tension and gets fans shouting at each other, but that's kinda been the nature of sports since forever. It has very little to do with "professionalism", as a gentleman's duel isn't really how sports works. People are mad at IdrA for the same reason a whole bunch of Canadians know the Maple Leafs are the most roflbad team to ever be in the NHL.
On March 19 2011 05:22 Jager wrote: I don't see how idra can get away with calling people bad. People can get better at SC2, he will always be an ugly skinny geek.
No need to insult his RL appearance.
It's just sad he feels the need to take credit away from two players that are obviously very good. I hope in time he'll just fade away.
On March 19 2011 04:58 HowSoOnIsNow wrote: Have no idea why AriseN flammes that much. Weird. Each time a foreigner is criticize for their comments, he comes in and defend them for the life of his. Are you even a TT1 fan? Seriously?
Is July the best Zerg out there? Not yet. Even if he wins against MC, he`s not the best in my book still. IMLosirA, IMNeastea and Dongrae are better in my mind. Is July a better Zerg than IdrA, in terms of achievement in Korea, yeah. Is July a better player than TT1? I wouldn't understand how can one argue against that. TT1 is still an amateur. He got talent, but still an amateur. I``m not saying he has no chance of becoming Pro,mostly if the north American scene expands, but the guy has to check himself before he wreck himself.
When i was 16, i`d use such qualifiers when i wanted to emit an opinion, problem is that he`s not 16. No one with an once of professionalism would say that July sucks. There`s no respect amongst the self called pros, that`s not cool at all.
Am I a tt1 fan?absolutly. Also worth noting im a fan of idra mc and july, or really anyone who plays well and gives me something cool to watch
Why am I defending the comments they made? Because theyre giving us cool content, and I don't feel the need to cause drama. I'm only flaming people who are flaming in the first place. Shocker, people don't like to be flamed but love flaming people.
Oh by the way, tt1 is already a pro player, so I'd say he has a shot, for sure
On March 19 2011 05:22 Jager wrote: I don't see how idra can get away with calling people bad. People can get better at SC2, he will always be an ugly skinny geek.
Sure, Idra can't insult people based on their game, but you can insult people based on their looks? Right.
On March 19 2011 04:58 HowSoOnIsNow wrote: Have no idea why AriseN flammes that much. Weird. Each time a foreigner is criticize for their comments, he comes in and defend them for the life of his. Are you even a TT1 fan? Seriously?
Is July the best Zerg out there? Not yet. Even if he wins against MC, he`s not the best in my book still. IMLosirA, IMNeastea and Dongrae are better in my mind. Is July a better Zerg than IdrA, in terms of achievement in Korea, yeah. Is July a better player than TT1? I wouldn't understand how can one argue against that. TT1 is still an amateur. He got talent, but still an amateur. I``m not saying he has no chance of becoming Pro,mostly if the north American scene expands, but the guy has to check himself before he wreck himself.
When i was 16, i`d use such qualifiers when i wanted to emit an opinion, problem is that he`s not 16. No one with an once of professionalism would say that July sucks. There`s no respect amongst the self called pros, that`s not cool at all.
This pretty much sums it up.
Hope we can stop the arguing now. I wish we had Pro Picks from Korea like last time so people would see the huge attitude difference, it's so much better when people recognize skill and give credit where credit's due.
And again, you can see the difference in between the Korean PROS who act professionally and construct interesting opinions on the match instead of insipid and uninspired one liners about the said player. I`d like to have TT1 tell that to July`s face. Because, at least in Boxing, they do just that.They don`t hide behind their internet stature. But you know what, he wouldn't have the guts to say that, he'd change his whole stance if he' be in front of him.
Again i don't want to sound like him hating on the guy, because i'm always glad when a fellow Canadian do well in the SC world, but i can't agree with his attitude. You got to keep things real.
Yeah Koreans would never say something like that, unless I'm forgetting something...
Oh yeah, mc said his first round in tsl wasn't a good player!
On March 19 2011 04:58 HowSoOnIsNow wrote: Have no idea why AriseN flammes that much. Weird. Each time a foreigner is criticize for their comments, he comes in and defend them for the life of his. Are you even a TT1 fan? Seriously?
Is July the best Zerg out there? Not yet. Even if he wins against MC, he`s not the best in my book still. IMLosirA, IMNeastea and Dongrae are better in my mind. Is July a better Zerg than IdrA, in terms of achievement in Korea, yeah. Is July a better player than TT1? I wouldn't understand how can one argue against that. TT1 is still an amateur. He got talent, but still an amateur. I``m not saying he has no chance of becoming Pro,mostly if the north American scene expands, but the guy has to check himself before he wreck himself.
When i was 16, i`d use such qualifiers when i wanted to emit an opinion, problem is that he`s not 16. No one with an once of professionalism would say that July sucks. There`s no respect amongst the self called pros, that`s not cool at all.
This pretty much sums it up.
Hope we can stop the arguing now. I wish we had Pro Picks from Korea like last time so people would see the huge attitude difference, it's so much better when people recognize skill and give credit where credit's due.
And again, you can see the difference in between the Korean PROS who act professionally and construct interesting opinions on the match instead of insipid and uninspired one liners about the said player. I`d like to have TT1 tell that to July`s face. Because, at least in Boxing, they do just that.They don`t hide behind their internet stature. But you know what, he wouldn't have the guts to say that, he'd change his whole stance if he' be in front of him.
Again i don't want to sound like him hating on the guy, because i'm always glad when a fellow Canadian do well in the SC world, but i can't agree with his attitude. You got to keep things real.
Yeah Koreans would never say something like that, unless I'm forgetting something...
Oh yeah, mc said his first round in tsl wasn't a good player!
you can only attack mc for that if he ends up losing to his first round in TSL. but since we know he is going to roflstomp that zerg, he is only speaking the truth
MC will win, he is a lot better than July currently. July can probably take one or two games out off MC because he is unpredictable, but it is also a huge weakness, because his style isn't consistent enough, and he will lose in a long serie.
Means they still suck.. Balance would have 8 in top 20 not 2-3.
Those rankings shouldn't say much considering you have players on there that proved to be not cut out for Code S or A like Makaprime ( sitting on the 10th spot ).
Use whatever stats you like GSL wins, tounament wins. win % etc protoss come up short.
Is this a joke? They are so far ahead of zerg in tournament wins. And in recent wins, then are ahead of terran. Even if they are the most played race, they are far above their % in wins
There is a noticeable imbalance with protoss atm. It is very noticeable at the top level of play. The huge amount of responses that bring up him winning because he is protoss is true but he is also a good player. Overall people need to stop, there is a skill required to be at this level, but atm there are many people hovering about the same skill level, MvP, MC, Nestea, MKP. they are all very solid players. But race atm plays a huge factor.
Means they still suck.. Balance would have 8 in top 20 not 2-3.
Those rankings shouldn't say much considering you have players on there that proved to be not cut out for Code S or A like Makaprime ( sitting on the 10th spot ).
Use whatever stats you like GSL wins, tounament wins. win % etc protoss come up short.
Is this a joke? They are so far ahead of zerg in tournament wins. And in recent wins, then are ahead of terran. Even if they are the most played race, they are far above their % in wins
Unless you can provide the links which show the statistics which you're claiming to have knowledge of, your opinion is not valid, and said with undue confidence.
as good as MC is i've never seen a "How the hell did he do that?" moment from him. on the other hand, seems like most july games have this element.
I'm really hoping july can entertain us with his style, wether he wins or not, I just don't want it to be the a boring Forcefield,/colossus/stalkers pvz steamroll.
but then again, july might opt for going 6 pool every game or something boring like that as well.
On March 19 2011 04:58 HowSoOnIsNow wrote: Have no idea why AriseN flammes that much. Weird. Each time a foreigner is criticize for their comments, he comes in and defend them for the life of his. Are you even a TT1 fan? Seriously?
Is July the best Zerg out there? Not yet. Even if he wins against MC, he`s not the best in my book still. IMLosirA, IMNeastea and Dongrae are better in my mind. Is July a better Zerg than IdrA, in terms of achievement in Korea, yeah. Is July a better player than TT1? I wouldn't understand how can one argue against that. TT1 is still an amateur. He got talent, but still an amateur. I``m not saying he has no chance of becoming Pro,mostly if the north American scene expands, but the guy has to check himself before he wreck himself.
When i was 16, i`d use such qualifiers when i wanted to emit an opinion, problem is that he`s not 16. No one with an once of professionalism would say that July sucks. There`s no respect amongst the self called pros, that`s not cool at all.
This pretty much sums it up.
Hope we can stop the arguing now. I wish we had Pro Picks from Korea like last time so people would see the huge attitude difference, it's so much better when people recognize skill and give credit where credit's due.
And again, you can see the difference in between the Korean PROS who act professionally and construct interesting opinions on the match instead of insipid and uninspired one liners about the said player. I`d like to have TT1 tell that to July`s face. Because, at least in Boxing, they do just that.They don`t hide behind their internet stature. But you know what, he wouldn't have the guts to say that, he'd change his whole stance if he' be in front of him.
Again i don't want to sound like him hating on the guy, because i'm always glad when a fellow Canadian do well in the SC world, but i can't agree with his attitude. You got to keep things real.
Yeah Koreans would never say something like that, unless I'm forgetting something...
Oh yeah, mc said his first round in tsl wasn't a good player!
MC is like i said, entitled to his cockiness, and i doubt he had knowledge of who Ciarra is, he probably got the information from someone else. That's why i refrain from bashing Idra. Also, because, more often than not, IdrA is wrong on players credential.
The main components of my tirade stands still, when you are not a World beater, you keep it on the low and you show that you are the better men with results. Saying otherwise does not promote sportsmanship, and if you want to duke it out, tell the guy in his face, if not, don't act like a bitch hiding behind your computer.
I don't want a scene where everything is serious to the point of being character less, but it's hard to take one seriously when one's making such harsh statements about a GSL finalist. It's also funny that people shits on Rain, because, he might not be the best of the best, but he's back to Code S, something that quite alot of the guys you revere wouldn't be able to achieve.
Like the guys on SoTG saying that NaDa and July matches were horrible,next thing you know, the writers on TL rated it as 4.5 out of 5. There's artificial standards set by people in the community. You can take Tyler for example, he doesn't like how July plays, and that's alright, but I've never heard him say that July just plainly sucks.
Basically, I'm not here to defend July just because he's July or whatever, and I'm not against the critics to his play style, but I'm against that artificial standard created by a few. I'm also against players detrimental to others just because of stylistical differences.
And my dude, if you don't like that, it's of no consequence to me.
On March 19 2011 05:22 Jager wrote: I don't see how idra can get away with calling people bad. People can get better at SC2, he will always be an ugly skinny geek.
Sure, Idra can't insult people based on their game, but you can insult people based on their looks? Right.
He can and does? Just don't be surprised when someone insults him in one way or another.
MC will completely outplay July and easily win, and despite the fact the players and not the races are the reason for the result people will use it as "evidence" for imbalance.
On March 18 2011 14:07 Cyanocyst wrote: Yeah this mentality is starting to get really annoying. Idra dismisses July cause hes an aggressive Zerg, which he finds to be gimmicky. However the new GSL maps make it very easy for Terran / Toss to get enough resources to support a nearly unkillable army. If you play a defensive style. So Zergs only option is to be aggressive, making good trades preventing the ultimate composition.
Not saying July is playing optimally, in fact i think he'll loose to MC. However i feel once Zergs learn to play aggressive but in a more refined way, than July is playing right now. It will be seen as the right way to play Zerg.
Really, why should the Zerg late game army be able to stand and fight with Terran or Toss late game army? Characteristically it shouldn't be able to.
Agreed. Just look at the PvZ match up in Brood War as proof. Zerg was absolutely dominating Protoss so hard it wasn't even fun to watch. Then Bisu came..
Means they still suck.. Balance would have 8 in top 20 not 2-3.
Those rankings shouldn't say much considering you have players on there that proved to be not cut out for Code S or A like Makaprime ( sitting on the 10th spot ).
Use whatever stats you like GSL wins, tounament wins. win % etc protoss come up short.
Is this a joke? They are so far ahead of zerg in tournament wins. And in recent wins, then are ahead of terran. Even if they are the most played race, they are far above their % in wins
Unless you can provide the links which show the statistics which you're claiming to have knowledge of, your opinion is not valid, and said with undue confidence.
On March 19 2011 04:58 HowSoOnIsNow wrote: Have no idea why AriseN flammes that much. Weird. Each time a foreigner is criticize for their comments, he comes in and defend them for the life of his. Are you even a TT1 fan? Seriously?
Is July the best Zerg out there? Not yet. Even if he wins against MC, he`s not the best in my book still. IMLosirA, IMNeastea and Dongrae are better in my mind. Is July a better Zerg than IdrA, in terms of achievement in Korea, yeah. Is July a better player than TT1? I wouldn't understand how can one argue against that. TT1 is still an amateur. He got talent, but still an amateur. I``m not saying he has no chance of becoming Pro,mostly if the north American scene expands, but the guy has to check himself before he wreck himself.
When i was 16, i`d use such qualifiers when i wanted to emit an opinion, problem is that he`s not 16. No one with an once of professionalism would say that July sucks. There`s no respect amongst the self called pros, that`s not cool at all.
This pretty much sums it up.
Hope we can stop the arguing now. I wish we had Pro Picks from Korea like last time so people would see the huge attitude difference, it's so much better when people recognize skill and give credit where credit's due.
And again, you can see the difference in between the Korean PROS who act professionally and construct interesting opinions on the match instead of insipid and uninspired one liners about the said player. I`d like to have TT1 tell that to July`s face. Because, at least in Boxing, they do just that.They don`t hide behind their internet stature. But you know what, he wouldn't have the guts to say that, he'd change his whole stance if he' be in front of him.
Again i don't want to sound like him hating on the guy, because i'm always glad when a fellow Canadian do well in the SC world, but i can't agree with his attitude. You got to keep things real.
Yeah Koreans would never say something like that, unless I'm forgetting something...
Oh yeah, mc said his first round in tsl wasn't a good player!
MC is like i said, entitled to his cockiness, and i doubt he had knowledge of who Ciarra is, he probably got the information from someone else. That's why i refrain from bashing Idra. Also, because, more often than not, IdrA is wrong on players credential.
The main components of my tirade stands still, when you are not a World beater, you keep it on the low and you show that you are the better men with results. Saying otherwise does not promote sportsmanship, and if you want to duke it out, tell the guy in his face, if not, don't act like a bitch hiding behind your computer.
I don't want a scene where everything is serious to the point of being character less, but it's hard to take one seriously when one's making such harsh statements about a GSL finalist. It's also funny that people shits on Rain, because, he might not be the best of the best, but he's back to Code S, something that quite alot of the guys you revere wouldn't be able to achieve.
Like the guys on SoTG saying that NaDa and July matches were horrible,next thing you know, the writers on TL rated it as 4.5 out of 5. There's artificial standards set by people in the community. You can take Tyler for example, he doesn't like how July plays, and that's alright, but I've never heard him say that July just plainly sucks.
Basically, I'm not here to defend July just because he's July or whatever, and I'm not against the critics to his play style, but I'm against that artificial standard created by a few. I'm also against players detrimental to others just because of stylistical differences.
And my dude, if you don't like that, it's of no consequence to me.
People shit on rain because hes not fancy or special, he just plays well. He doesnt stand out in any way besides being a solid player. He doesn't mass marines or have perfect control or play sc2 as a gorilla foreigner like other S class terrans do.
Nada vs July matches were terrible. I dont understand how players of that caliber cant scout baneling busts, it makes me sad. Nada is much better than that. I am excited that july got as far as he did, but him vs MC isnt going to be close.
On March 19 2011 06:49 hmunkey wrote: Why is djWheat up there? He's a great guy and all but his opinion on the game means less than mine does, and mine is pretty useless to begin with.
Wuh?
Because your average TLer knows who djWheat is, whereas your average TLer has no idea who you or I are. It isn't about value of opinion, it's about the popularity of the individual.
Something like how having the President of the US's opinion on who is going to win up there would be super badass, even though the President of the US probably knows jack squat about SC2.
On March 19 2011 04:58 HowSoOnIsNow wrote: Have no idea why AriseN flammes that much. Weird. Each time a foreigner is criticize for their comments, he comes in and defend them for the life of his. Are you even a TT1 fan? Seriously?
Is July the best Zerg out there? Not yet. Even if he wins against MC, he`s not the best in my book still. IMLosirA, IMNeastea and Dongrae are better in my mind. Is July a better Zerg than IdrA, in terms of achievement in Korea, yeah. Is July a better player than TT1? I wouldn't understand how can one argue against that. TT1 is still an amateur. He got talent, but still an amateur. I``m not saying he has no chance of becoming Pro,mostly if the north American scene expands, but the guy has to check himself before he wreck himself.
When i was 16, i`d use such qualifiers when i wanted to emit an opinion, problem is that he`s not 16. No one with an once of professionalism would say that July sucks. There`s no respect amongst the self called pros, that`s not cool at all.
This pretty much sums it up.
Hope we can stop the arguing now. I wish we had Pro Picks from Korea like last time so people would see the huge attitude difference, it's so much better when people recognize skill and give credit where credit's due.
And again, you can see the difference in between the Korean PROS who act professionally and construct interesting opinions on the match instead of insipid and uninspired one liners about the said player. I`d like to have TT1 tell that to July`s face. Because, at least in Boxing, they do just that.They don`t hide behind their internet stature. But you know what, he wouldn't have the guts to say that, he'd change his whole stance if he' be in front of him.
Again i don't want to sound like him hating on the guy, because i'm always glad when a fellow Canadian do well in the SC world, but i can't agree with his attitude. You got to keep things real.
Yeah Koreans would never say something like that, unless I'm forgetting something...
Oh yeah, mc said his first round in tsl wasn't a good player!
MC is like i said, entitled to his cockiness, and i doubt he had knowledge of who Ciarra is, he probably got the information from someone else. That's why i refrain from bashing Idra. Also, because, more often than not, IdrA is wrong on players credential.
The main components of my tirade stands still, when you are not a World beater, you keep it on the low and you show that you are the better men with results. Saying otherwise does not promote sportsmanship, and if you want to duke it out, tell the guy in his face, if not, don't act like a bitch hiding behind your computer.
I don't want a scene where everything is serious to the point of being character less, but it's hard to take one seriously when one's making such harsh statements about a GSL finalist. It's also funny that people shits on Rain, because, he might not be the best of the best, but he's back to Code S, something that quite alot of the guys you revere wouldn't be able to achieve.
Like the guys on SoTG saying that NaDa and July matches were horrible,next thing you know, the writers on TL rated it as 4.5 out of 5. There's artificial standards set by people in the community. You can take Tyler for example, he doesn't like how July plays, and that's alright, but I've never heard him say that July just plainly sucks.
Basically, I'm not here to defend July just because he's July or whatever, and I'm not against the critics to his play style, but I'm against that artificial standard created by a few. I'm also against players detrimental to others just because of stylistical differences.
And my dude, if you don't like that, it's of no consequence to me.
People shit on rain because hes not fancy or special, he just plays well. He doesnt stand out in any way besides being a solid player. He doesn't mass marines or have perfect control or play sc2 as a gorilla foreigner like other S class terrans do.
Nada vs July matches were terrible. I dont understand how players of that caliber cant scout baneling busts, it makes me sad. Nada is much better than that. I am excited that july got as far as he did, but him vs MC isnt going to be close.
Because common sense is the solid macro zerg never baneling bust a barrack wall. A solid macro zerg defaults to pumping drones to attempt to catch up after a failed baneling bust. A solid macro zerg plays defensive all game until he is on 7 bases tech switiching to 5 different units after every wave. A solid macro zerg play defensive and drone until last sec after the terran finished siegeing. A solid macro zerg is idra who is like top 16 material.
Means they still suck.. Balance would have 8 in top 20 not 2-3.
Those rankings shouldn't say much considering you have players on there that proved to be not cut out for Code S or A like Makaprime ( sitting on the 10th spot ).
Use whatever stats you like GSL wins, tounament wins. win % etc protoss come up short.
Is this a joke? They are so far ahead of zerg in tournament wins. And in recent wins, then are ahead of terran. Even if they are the most played race, they are far above their % in wins
Unless you can provide the links which show the statistics which you're claiming to have knowledge of, your opinion is not valid, and said with undue confidence.
Look at who makes up the majority of the wins for Protoss, it is either MC, San or HongUn, clearly the better Protoss players out of the 9 Protoss who have made it into Code S this season (compared to the 15 Terran).
And not a single Terran who has amazing TvP (Nada, Top - only one game vs HongUn but he self proclaims himself that he can beat ANY protoss, Rainbow) has vs'd a Protoss
Yeah Terran are so awful!
and:
The fact that Protoss are fewer in number than Terran are affects the statistic as well because, you must consider someone like MC. If there are 10 Protoss, and 30 Terran in the GSL (in a 64 player format)(not accurate), imagine if every single Protoss got 2-1'd by Terrans except for the best three, (we'll use MC, Anypro, and San for this as they were the Protoss that got the farthest this season) who all 2-1 Terran opponents. The stats going into the Ro32 would be PvT: 13-17 with 3 Protoss left and 27 Terrans (extreme of course, this example is only being used to illustrate the effect that disproportionate numbers has on stats, and Zergs are irrelevant). Now MC, San, and Anypro are Terran killers, imagine they all 2-0, and the other Terrans face each other, and the remaining Zergs and such. Now, PvT is at 19-17 :O big difference. Now we reach round 16, with 3 Protoss, and 13 Terrans. Of course, MC 2-0's but San and Anypro only 2-1, as they are facing increasingly difficult opponents. Now PvT is at 25-19. Pass the Ro8, similar results, a 2-0 and two 2-1's. PvT is at 31-21. Now we are in the Semi's, and two Protosses face, one wins, and one loses, but this does not affect PvT at all. On the other side, San, is up against the best Terran still left in the GSL (because he's the only one :p). Even if San gets 3-0'd and then this Terran God 4-0's MC in the Finals, guess PvT is at? 31-28 still Protoss favored. But this Terran God was never in the Semi's (July), it was a Zerg, no Terran to redeem his race's stats like FD did in Season 1, and NesTea did, and MC did. And that, of course, is an EXTREME example, but it is only to show the effect of a minority race having 3 very good players go through the majority race to get to the Semi-Finals, which happened (3 Protoss in the Semi's).
Now you may say that 3 Protoss in the Semi's automatically shows that Protoss is "imba" "OP" or "favored", but lets look back at the previous GSLs, in which stats indicate that Zerg was favored over Terran. 3 Terrans in GSL 1 Semi finals. 3 Terrans in GSL 2 Semi-finals. 2 Terrans in GSL 3 Finals. 3 Terrans in GSL 4 Semi-Finals. BUT, ZERG IS FAVORED IN THOSE SEASONS, TvZ: 48.2%!!!!!!!!!!!
Why? Because people like Fruitdealer and NesTea carved their way through dozens of Terrans, where as the Terrans were only able to take out a few Zergs, as there were less to kill.
One last thing, Look at GSL 3, nobody was complaining Protoss was IMBA back then, even though PvT was at 62.5%.. It was because of a single very skilled player racked up a ton of wins versus Terrans, MC, which can be equated to this season when Three very skilled players racked up a ton of wins versus the bountiful Terrans, San, Anypro, and MC.
Means they still suck.. Balance would have 8 in top 20 not 2-3.
Those rankings shouldn't say much considering you have players on there that proved to be not cut out for Code S or A like Makaprime ( sitting on the 10th spot ).
Use whatever stats you like GSL wins, tounament wins. win % etc protoss come up short.
Is this a joke? They are so far ahead of zerg in tournament wins. And in recent wins, then are ahead of terran. Even if they are the most played race, they are far above their % in wins
And who are you referring to as the most played race? You mean least played race right? If so, I adress this in my wall of text above
looks like it's all about MC and rightfully so, protoss is really strong right now I can't say if it's a balance issue or if protoss is starting to be figured out but it's clear that right now, they are strong as hell.
Here's to hoping July takes it and shows us all how to win ZvP!
On March 19 2011 06:49 hmunkey wrote: Why is djWheat up there? He's a great guy and all but his opinion on the game means less than mine does, and mine is pretty useless to begin with.
Wuh?
Because your average TLer knows who djWheat is, whereas your average TLer has no idea who you or I are. It isn't about value of opinion, it's about the popularity of the individual.
Something like how having the President of the US's opinion on who is going to win up there would be super badass, even though the President of the US probably knows jack squat about SC2.
Except the title of the thread is "pros pick" so your point is completely invalid. Reading can be hard at times, but sometimes it's important to make the effort before posting.
On March 19 2011 13:50 emc wrote: looks like it's all about MC and rightfully so, protoss is really strong right now I can't say if it's a balance issue or if protoss is starting to be figured out but it's clear that right now, they are strong as hell.
Here's to hoping July takes it and shows us all how to win ZvP!
I feel that protoss found a way to play and Terran are still struggling. Terran players really got used to MMM and I haven't really seen any other play except for Jinro vs MC, which I will never forget.
On March 19 2011 06:49 hmunkey wrote: Why is djWheat up there? He's a great guy and all but his opinion on the game means less than mine does, and mine is pretty useless to begin with.
Wuh?
Because your average TLer knows who djWheat is, whereas your average TLer has no idea who you or I are. It isn't about value of opinion, it's about the popularity of the individual.
Something like how having the President of the US's opinion on who is going to win up there would be super badass, even though the President of the US probably knows jack squat about SC2.
Except the title of the thread is "pros pick" so your point is completely invalid. Reading can be hard at times, but sometimes it's important to make the effort before posting.
Wheat is a Professional Caster and a damn good one at that. Notice the title is "pros pick" not "pro players pick"?
On March 19 2011 06:49 hmunkey wrote: Why is djWheat up there? He's a great guy and all but his opinion on the game means less than mine does, and mine is pretty useless to begin with.
Wuh?
Because your average TLer knows who djWheat is, whereas your average TLer has no idea who you or I are. It isn't about value of opinion, it's about the popularity of the individual.
Something like how having the President of the US's opinion on who is going to win up there would be super badass, even though the President of the US probably knows jack squat about SC2.
Except the title of the thread is "pros pick" so your point is completely invalid. Reading can be hard at times, but sometimes it's important to make the effort before posting.
Wheat is a Professional Caster and a damn good one at that. Notice the title is "pros pick" not "pro players pick"?
Yea im a professional spectator so yea my opinion should be up there
July will win. he's too old for this "make it to the finals but don't win" shit. he's done with that child's play. you think a young buck like MC is going to take the title from July? think again. it's like trying to have a fist fight with your old man. for some reason it just never ends well for you
On March 19 2011 04:58 HowSoOnIsNow wrote: Have no idea why AriseN flammes that much. Weird. Each time a foreigner is criticize for their comments, he comes in and defend them for the life of his. Are you even a TT1 fan? Seriously?
Is July the best Zerg out there? Not yet. Even if he wins against MC, he`s not the best in my book still. IMLosirA, IMNeastea and Dongrae are better in my mind. Is July a better Zerg than IdrA, in terms of achievement in Korea, yeah. Is July a better player than TT1? I wouldn't understand how can one argue against that. TT1 is still an amateur. He got talent, but still an amateur. I``m not saying he has no chance of becoming Pro,mostly if the north American scene expands, but the guy has to check himself before he wreck himself.
When i was 16, i`d use such qualifiers when i wanted to emit an opinion, problem is that he`s not 16. No one with an once of professionalism would say that July sucks. There`s no respect amongst the self called pros, that`s not cool at all.
This pretty much sums it up.
Hope we can stop the arguing now. I wish we had Pro Picks from Korea like last time so people would see the huge attitude difference, it's so much better when people recognize skill and give credit where credit's due.
And again, you can see the difference in between the Korean PROS who act professionally and construct interesting opinions on the match instead of insipid and uninspired one liners about the said player. I`d like to have TT1 tell that to July`s face. Because, at least in Boxing, they do just that.They don`t hide behind their internet stature. But you know what, he wouldn't have the guts to say that, he'd change his whole stance if he' be in front of him.
Again i don't want to sound like him hating on the guy, because i'm always glad when a fellow Canadian do well in the SC world, but i can't agree with his attitude. You got to keep things real.
Yeah Koreans would never say something like that, unless I'm forgetting something...
Oh yeah, mc said his first round in tsl wasn't a good player!
MC is like i said, entitled to his cockiness, and i doubt he had knowledge of who Ciarra is, he probably got the information from someone else. That's why i refrain from bashing Idra. Also, because, more often than not, IdrA is wrong on players credential.
The main components of my tirade stands still, when you are not a World beater, you keep it on the low and you show that you are the better men with results. Saying otherwise does not promote sportsmanship, and if you want to duke it out, tell the guy in his face, if not, don't act like a bitch hiding behind your computer.
I don't want a scene where everything is serious to the point of being character less, but it's hard to take one seriously when one's making such harsh statements about a GSL finalist. It's also funny that people shits on Rain, because, he might not be the best of the best, but he's back to Code S, something that quite alot of the guys you revere wouldn't be able to achieve.
Like the guys on SoTG saying that NaDa and July matches were horrible,next thing you know, the writers on TL rated it as 4.5 out of 5. There's artificial standards set by people in the community. You can take Tyler for example, he doesn't like how July plays, and that's alright, but I've never heard him say that July just plainly sucks.
Basically, I'm not here to defend July just because he's July or whatever, and I'm not against the critics to his play style, but I'm against that artificial standard created by a few. I'm also against players detrimental to others just because of stylistical differences.
And my dude, if you don't like that, it's of no consequence to me.
People shit on rain because hes not fancy or special, he just plays well. He doesnt stand out in any way besides being a solid player. He doesn't mass marines or have perfect control or play sc2 as a gorilla foreigner like other S class terrans do.
Nada vs July matches were terrible. I dont understand how players of that caliber cant scout baneling busts, it makes me sad. Nada is much better than that. I am excited that july got as far as he did, but him vs MC isnt going to be close.
People shit on Rain because he cheesed Nestea (in the cheesiest GSL to date, no less) and got into the finals. He's been okay since then. Not great, but no one would we rag on him except for that match. The way Hyperdub is kind of meh.
On March 19 2011 05:22 Jager wrote: I don't see how idra can get away with calling people bad. People can get better at SC2, he will always be an ugly skinny geek.
No need to insult his RL appearance.
It's just sad he feels the need to take credit away from two players that are obviously very good. I hope in time he'll just fade away.
He practices like two hours a day, right? As people get good at SC2 (as opposed to carryover skill from BW), he'll be a B-lister again. Whoever wins, the forum will be complaining that guy's race is imba and he was a bad player, and Idra is a big help to that line of thinking. Alas and alack.
On March 19 2011 06:13 FakeBoxeR wrote: is it bad when over half the responses are "because he plays protoss" ?
See what I mean? It doesn't matter who's better to a lot of people. Just what races are selected.
For my own pick, I placed my Liquibet on July. How has MC been practicing against a Zerg like July? There are no Zergs like him on oGs/Liquid. Whatever July is planning, MC is most certainly not practicing against it. I keep hearing that zerg is the reactive race, and July is the only Z I've seen who's great at reacting. MC can't deal with surprises very well. Look how he fell apart to Jinro in GSL 4, when Jinro surprised him with Mech.
Either way, I expect the games will be fun, and at least one game will be totally one-sided, with one player looking like a Bronze (July does something insane. Who looks like a Bronze depends if MC handles it properly).
On March 19 2011 06:49 hmunkey wrote: Why is djWheat up there? He's a great guy and all but his opinion on the game means less than mine does, and mine is pretty useless to begin with.
Wuh?
Because your average TLer knows who djWheat is, whereas your average TLer has no idea who you or I are. It isn't about value of opinion, it's about the popularity of the individual.
Something like how having the President of the US's opinion on who is going to win up there would be super badass, even though the President of the US probably knows jack squat about SC2.
Except the title of the thread is "pros pick" so your point is completely invalid. Reading can be hard at times, but sometimes it's important to make the effort before posting.
Wheat is a Professional Caster and a damn good one at that. Notice the title is "pros pick" not "pro players pick"?
Yea im a professional spectator so yea my opinion should be up there
I am a professional taxi driver, can i be up there ??
On March 19 2011 08:49 Daozzt wrote: This is pretty much July vs BeSt OSL all over again.
except the ZvP matchup in BW is considered Zerg favored while the ZvP matchup in SC2 is considered Protoss favored
Sadly that's true. Beside if your Losira. If it was Losira playing, i'd say that he'd win for sure. Next Season, that guy is in the final, royal roader muthafuckas!! Mark my words.
On March 19 2011 06:49 hmunkey wrote: Why is djWheat up there? He's a great guy and all but his opinion on the game means less than mine does, and mine is pretty useless to begin with.
Wuh?
Because your average TLer knows who djWheat is, whereas your average TLer has no idea who you or I are. It isn't about value of opinion, it's about the popularity of the individual.
Something like how having the President of the US's opinion on who is going to win up there would be super badass, even though the President of the US probably knows jack squat about SC2.
Except the title of the thread is "pros pick" so your point is completely invalid. Reading can be hard at times, but sometimes it's important to make the effort before posting.
Wheat is a Professional Caster and a damn good one at that. Notice the title is "pros pick" not "pro players pick"?
Yea im a professional spectator so yea my opinion should be up there
i rly dislike it when they say MC because he is protoss ... there was more Z GSL winners then P and of course it is HARD to play zerg vs protoss but i think on a level where july is now, everything is possible !
anypro is a super strong protoss and july crush his face so hard ^^ i think this zerg whine is just anoying
On March 19 2011 06:49 hmunkey wrote: Why is djWheat up there? He's a great guy and all but his opinion on the game means less than mine does, and mine is pretty useless to begin with.
Wuh?
Because your average TLer knows who djWheat is, whereas your average TLer has no idea who you or I are. It isn't about value of opinion, it's about the popularity of the individual.
Something like how having the President of the US's opinion on who is going to win up there would be super badass, even though the President of the US probably knows jack squat about SC2.
Except the title of the thread is "pros pick" so your point is completely invalid. Reading can be hard at times, but sometimes it's important to make the effort before posting.
It's also interesting to see that two out of the three players who said July were just rooting for him, but did not give a clear indication they expected July to win. The one who actually did predict he would win thought July would do so through some unorthodox aggression. Maybe July was planning some sort of special attack but he was just spent his time responding to MC's attack poorly
EPT
Attero
Bad
bLuR
, and i want him to win, therefore he will win ! Also, its torches team so you gotta root for him.p.
![[image loading]](http://forums.clubrsx.com/images/smilies/dgaf.png)
.... so now have to root for 
![[image loading]](http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/75/asdffkj8.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/SonuvBob/ss/bisu_o_face.jpg)
