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1. Don't BM randomly. "gonna rape you"? How uncalled for.
2. The Zerg just get spamming Zerglings and trying to kill you for like the first 9 minutes. Just at the ten minute mark, he donates 40 Zergling to kill 7 Zealots and a sentry. Everything after that point is a formality. A formality that takes 12 minutes, but a formality nonetheless. At the 11 minute mark, he only has 34 drones, no lair, and both his queens are chilling at the natural leaving his main hatch larva-inject-free. Do you have a replay of this against a competent Zerg?
3. As was pointed out: There are four paths out of his natural. You were blocking one of them, and it wasn't the one with an expansion behind it. He could've taken the low ground third, sent a chunk of his army down there, and flanked you from two paths if you tried to sneak in. He instead chose to take the contain like a bitch. Indeed, at the 22 minute mark, you ACTUALLY SAY TO THE ZERG, and I'm quoting "You could just walk around". Which he could.
4. Seriously, this Zerg is fucking awful. This is diamond league? Even I, a mere platinum, macro better than this. Granted, he forgot to put drones in his third geyser for half the game, but still! He preferred to bitch about balance than to do anything.He even stayed on hatch tech, not starting his lair until the 20 minute mark.
5. If you have map dominance (albeit only because Zerg can't play), start the nexus at your third before you're down to three mostly-mined-out patches in your main.
So yes. FFs on Typhon are imba against shitty Zergs who are too busy whining about balance to do anything at all about it.
On March 18 2011 20:05 DoctorPhil wrote:
the other guy asked to see it. This was also the first time I did it so i wasn't good at that strategy yet. If he tries to flank me I have a pylon there to see it (only not in that game) and I move in to snipe his expo while I block him out of it.
So he sends a small portion of his army, and goads you into leaving the choke so he can get a surround. Granted, it would help if he dropped even a single creep tumor all game (is EU diamond like NA Silver?), but still.
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Typhon is such an ugly map, but the new Xel'Naga Fortress looks really nice, can't wait to see it.
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I'm not trying to prove what a total pro I am, if that's what you're thinking. I'm only saying typhon looks protoss favored to me.
Also please read my comment at the first link. He didn't seem to mind the BM anyway.
Here's another one I just now played. This guy isn't 3k masters like the last, but he played a lot better. He tried some different things like taking the low 3rd and walking lings into my expo. I felt a lot more pressure this time. He also made me waste a lot of FFs.
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=196590
It's easy to see what one could have done better from a replay, but when you're in the actual game and are under pressure it becomes much harder to keep a clear mind and make the right choices.
What's so good about this strategy is that I'm constantly at his doorstep and he can't see how much units I have. He has to overcommit to army units, as far as he knows I could be going for a huge game ending push every single moment. Therefore he can't drone up, i'm always ahead when it comes to eco for this reason.
5) I don't really need to when he's on 2 bases.
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On March 18 2011 21:30 DoctorPhil wrote:I'm not trying to prove what a total pro I am, if that's what you're thinking. I'm only saying typhon looks protoss favored to me. Also please read my comment at the first link. He didn't seem to mind the BM anyway. Here's another one I just now played. This guy isn't 3k masters like the last, but he played a lot better. He tried some different things like taking the low 3rd and walking lings into my expo. I felt a lot more pressure this time. http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=196590It's easy to see what one could have done better from a replay, but when you're in the actual game and are under pressure it becomes much harder to keep a clear mind and make the right choices. What's so good about this strategy is that I'm constantly at his doorstep and he can't see how much units I have. He has to overcommit to army units, as far as he knows I could be going for a huge game ending push every single moment. Therefore he can't drone up, i'm always ahead when it comes to eco for this reason. 5) I don't really need to when he's on 2 bases.
That build is probably one of the scariest things I have ever seen in SC2, 6 pool in every Typhon ZvP match it is.
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Typhon peaks is rediculously air favored. Banshees are going to be really strong. The cliffs everywhere make it impossible to deal with them.
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Dual Sight looks fucking awsome , will the new maps be avaible on bnet?
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I think Dual Sight is really awesome! I love the Char (?) tileset, I wish more maps used it. Plus I think adding in Typhon is a good move as well, I've enjoyed playing on it in ladder.
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Dual Sight by LSPrime
Finally Ive been naggin on this since forever and I know its petty, but its just a me thing, like the Gore Option or the Colors in GSL
FINALLY some lava Tile Maps "dance"
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That 3k master played bad. He should have provoked your sentries to force you to use up some of your energy. Instead he just ran in there hoping he had enough to kill your army even though your sentries were at full energy. You also played risky, moving so close to his base with just a few sentries and some zealots, he could have caused a lot of damage.
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You make me so happy Gom.
with the exception of the blizzard map every one of these looks like you can take a 3rd reasonably safely... I really hope this encourages Terran to go mech against toss... I think tvp is the matchup thats going to change the most from these new maps.
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I like the added rocks to the 3rd on the New Terminus. 3rd was wayy too easy to take on the old version.
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Only thing I have to say is that they should fix metalopolis like MLG did (unless they have and I'm stupid).
Otherwise it looks pretty cool.
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United States7481 Posts
On March 19 2011 06:42 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
Only thing I have to say is that they should fix metalopolis like MLG did (unless they have and I'm stupid).
Otherwise it looks pretty cool.
starting last season, gom has modified Metalopolis and Xel'naga caverns so that tehre's an extra unbuildable hex at the back of the bottom of the main ramp, so you can't block somebody in with 2 buildings but at the same time you can build a wall from the front of your ramp to your cc. so it's still different from mlg metalopolis, where i don't think you can do this, and also because it doesn't modify spawn position possibility.
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On March 18 2011 21:30 DoctorPhil wrote:I'm not trying to prove what a total pro I am, if that's what you're thinking. I'm only saying typhon looks protoss favored to me. Also please read my comment at the first link. He didn't seem to mind the BM anyway. Here's another one I just now played. This guy isn't 3k masters like the last, but he played a lot better. He tried some different things like taking the low 3rd and walking lings into my expo. I felt a lot more pressure this time. He also made me waste a lot of FFs. http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=196590It's easy to see what one could have done better from a replay, but when you're in the actual game and are under pressure it becomes much harder to keep a clear mind and make the right choices. What's so good about this strategy is that I'm constantly at his doorstep and he can't see how much units I have. He has to overcommit to army units, as far as he knows I could be going for a huge game ending push every single moment. Therefore he can't drone up, i'm always ahead when it comes to eco for this reason. 5) I don't really need to when he's on 2 bases.
I didn't mean to imply that you were bad. I win games early and then wait for the opponent to gg for 10 minutes all the time. Of course things are more obvious when observing than when playing. But the Zerg didn't play at all properly, so I'm not sure that'd work anywhere near as well against a pro-level Z.
In this new replay, the Z sends a bunch of lings to your natural to counter at the 9 minute mark. Smart, but not smart enough. He could have hit the back of your contain force with the lings that ran around, while hitting the front with roaches. That would've killed you pretty hard. Hell, had he sent 1 ling to your natural, he would've seen the nexus, and been able to know he could crush your army. Then, after doing so, he could expand safely and catch back up.
Actually, that game really highlighted the strengths and the weaknesses of taking that choke: You can block things pretty well, but you have to go out into the open to kill anything, and lings can run around to flank pretty easily. It's strong, yeah, but I don't think it's at all imba, from the games I've seen. If it is that abusable, we'll see it abused, though, and I guess then we'll know.
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On March 19 2011 06:34 crown77 wrote:
You make me so happy Gom.
with the exception of the blizzard map every one of these looks like you can take a 3rd reasonably safely... I really hope this encourages Terran to go mech against toss... I think tvp is the matchup thats going to change the most from these new maps.
Having a third protected by the same choke that protects your main and natural surely makes it hard to take a third on Typhon...
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I actually prefer Terminus SE to Terminus RE. Interesting that it's blizzard-ier now, though.
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Disappointed that Gom have changed Terminus, It was easily my favourite map, as it wasn't uncommon to see 3 base terran v 5 base zerg 12 minutes in
It seems everyone wants to avoid this?
why?
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New terminus seems a bit... ugly I guess. But its the same basic layout so hopefully the games will be just as good.
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On March 19 2011 11:29 Exstasy wrote:
Disappointed that Gom have changed Terminus, It was easily my favourite map, as it wasn't uncommon to see 3 base terran v 5 base zerg 12 minutes in
It seems everyone wants to avoid this?
why?
Balance issues. If T, or especially P, is allowed to turtle to freely, they hit a 200/200 deathball before the Zerg has enough bases to deal with it via 300 food pushes. I think the backdoor natural in Crevasse went from 2 base to 1 gas for a similar reason. I don't think mass base on mass base is too imba right now, but allowing players to turtle entirely safely puts the Z at a disadvantage.
Zerg right now is a bit sine-wave in terms of balance: Weak early game, balanced mid game, weak at the start of the late game (right when the Protoss gets the 200/200 death ball), and getting progressively stronger as the game goes on to more and more bases. Players like July and Losira are making early Zerg aggression stonger, but until either the method for dealing with a 200/200 timing push is discovered or lategame Zerg is patched, Z needs to be able to do damage in the midgame to be able to survive in the late game. People who complain about balance focus on the units, but it's the timings that are much more important. On Terminus SE, Zerg can slow down the Protoss Deathball more, and thus be better equipped to deal with it when it arrives, by dint of just plain having more dudes.
That's my theory, anyway. Balance is a tricky thing. As the metagame evolves, certain attacks and timings will become almost mandatory. In BW, Terrans run up to a Z's base (to force sunkens) and run right back (to have defense for imminent mutalisks). This kind of wackiness is pretty important.
That's my theorycrafting, anyway. It's still got an super-easy third, just not a nigh-invincible one.
It's interesting to me that both Typhon and the new Terminus have backdoor rocks into the third. I wonder if the reasoning is the same in both cases.
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I don't really like unsymmetrical three-player maps like Xelnaga fortress. There's just too much positional imbalance in my opinion.
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EPT
