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I use a Linux OS on my laptop because its old and Windows won't install for whatever reason. I can watch every major SC2 tournament that has been held, including ones that used Octoshape (like MLG) on this laptop. I use my PC when I am going to play games, otherwise I'll surf, watch streams, and chat from this one. I don't want to have to sit in my computer chair in my office when I want to just watch some commentated games.
GSL streams were easy to view in VLC if you just did a little work-around, and to my knowledge used the same keys and passes to spread the server load the exact same way as if I had used GOMStreamer to open the stream link. The issue is when people SHARE a single VLC stream link, because those using that link are not getting individual keys/passes (they are all using the same one) to spread the load from their client.
This leads me to believe that GOM's heavy handed approach of 'black-out' to all other streaming clients than their proprietary one shows a lack of understanding of the viewer base.
I'd like to ask: How popular is Mac/Apple in Korea? How about Linux? Is there a history of cross-compatibility among Korean internet-based companies providing support, or even acknowledging that market?
Perhaps the fact is that GOM wants people to use GOMPlayer/Streamer to see their productions. If this is true, they should invest in either supporting a work-around (ie. a separate "Unsupported OS SQ Link" button that uses GOM's load-spreading, as to prevent link-sharing and overload), or providing a client for their software that is cross-compatible.
To do neither and 'black-out' any others simply puts GOM in a bad light, they look like bad-guys in effect, and thats the last thing you want as a company...
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When steam for mac came out, all games with mac compatibility had a 15-20% rise in sales. I'm very surprised that they don't make a mac compatible version, heck, they probably could hire someone online to do it in a week.
I don't like how people are complaining about re-streams. I want to watch live, but they are not giving me an option to at all. I mean, what's wrong with pirating something if it's your only means of getting it and no one else is getting harmed? I thank people who re-stream it, they are providing a free service for us, by stealing a free service.
Eh screw it, evil GOM theory time: They are only doing this because they want more money from subscriptions, guaranteeing all mac users will have to pay.
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On March 15 2011 07:14 Munk-E wrote:
When steam for mac came out, all games with mac compatibility had a 15-20% rise in sales. I'm very surprised that they don't make a mac compatible version, heck, they probably could hire someone online to do it in a week.
I don't like how people are complaining about re-streams. I want to watch live, but they are not giving me an option to at all. I mean, what's wrong with pirating something if it's your only means of getting it and no one else is getting harmed? I thank people who re-stream it, they are providing a free service for us, by stealing a free service.
Eh screw it, evil GOM theory time: They are only doing this because they want more money from subscriptions, guaranteeing all mac users will have to pay.
I'm pretty sure they wouldn't do this. If they wanted money, I can think of plenty of other things to do than extort a minority customer base. Besides, even paying Mac users can't watch the live streams so that's clearly not what's happening here.
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On March 14 2011 22:23 -Archangel- wrote:
I am sorry to burst your bubble, but MAC users are even more rare then Windows Vista users.
I really see no reason for them to really support Mac to gain 100 viewers. I am a windows 7 user as everyone else should be, however 100 people can go a long way, imagine 100 more people spreading good things about GSL and what a fine job their doing. And now we have 100 (based on your estimation) not happy with Gom and being forced to purchase VoDs. Although I agree with you that MAC users are few in number, gom should still help out the minority when they have a MAC based stream.
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For what it's worth, a lot of people do have streaming problems normally anyway (e.g. Huk's recent up/down game got cut because the stream crashed).
So arguing that Mac users shouldn't complain because GOMTV has always delivered to paying customers is a little bit silly because it's just not true and doesn't make much sense.
If you're not having a problem with streaming and just want to stand on a soapbox, find another thread.
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I'm not a fan of vendor lock-in so I'm very much against GOM streams only working through their own player. Having said that, I can understand why it's a requirement if it adds extra features to balance load between stream servers. I question whether they would have any issues with load distribution if they made it easier for people with alternative media players to access the stream through their website without resorting to third party browser scripts.
Also, what are these ads that people get while watching the stream through the GOM Player? I've been using the GOM Player since I have a Windows 7 install on this PC for gaming, but I don't remember seeing any ads on the stream, unless people are just talking about the sponsor logos.
Regarding OS statistics, if teamliquid.net keeps any log files, those would be more useful than the ones linked from the W3Schools site. Alternatively a poll like someone suggested previously.
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On March 15 2011 07:07 LegendaryZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 07:04 Cerotix wrote:On March 15 2011 06:54 LegendaryZ wrote:On March 15 2011 06:44 Sabu113 wrote:You assumed in your opening paragraph that for some reason that because I own a mac I am an apple fanatic. You assumed that I would be a privy to all of Apple's past business decisions and a tacit supporter of its nice monopoly through the app store. Choosing that language makes it seem like the standard forum warrior Mac vs apple fight. The goal of the thread is to create enough of ruckus that GOM realizes the urgency of the problem and provides a solution sooner rather than later. A big thread will raise eyebrows and add more credence to any case to offer a Mac Gom client now. Alternatively, hopefully the thread will generate solutions to the problem of viewing the lives stream on a mac. "Get windows" is not a real solution nor a practical one for many people. Being satisfied with what they have now is an empty statement as they have disabled alternative viewing options and as such made this thread necessary. To be perfectly honest, I am not sure what you are adding to the discussion. + Show Spoiler +
Also... entitlted? seriously? Yes no one is entitled to any product even a free one. The company is entitled to a little push back when they discriminate against a potential customer base.
They've already stated that they're working on a solution for Mac users. It'll come when it comes. Until then, what more do you want? It seems that there are potential security and performance issues with allowing streaming to clients such as VLC, so I really don't understand why you would fault them for anything here. They aren't discriminating against anyone. The fact that they're working on a client to satisfy Mac users speaks to that. Also, how does starting a thread on TL.net work to further benefit the situation at hand? If the idea is to let GomTV know that this is something you care about, you should be contacting them about it rather than whining about it here. Either way, Gom clearly has their reasons for taking the actions they're taking and I don't think anyone here is in a position to question their decisions without information as to their motives. In the meantime, they are delivering what they promised to their paying customers. That's all that really matters at this point. Many people, myself included, have contacted GOM about this problem, there is a thread that was started on their forums that is linked a few pages back, I also tweeted Tasteless, Artosis and the official GOMTV twitter regarding this issue. The reason there is a thread here on TL.net is not only because we are a compendium of users with lots of ideas for possible workarounds, as well as the fact that there are a few GOM employees that both have TL accounts, and frequent the forums quite often. And as to your last point, no they are not delivering what they promised to paying customers, because everybody on a non-windows OS is getting screwed out of live streams. and of course we are in a position to question the motives of GOM, as a paying customer, I expect an explanation when there is a change in service that renders a large portion of why I bought the seasons pass null. Until there is a satisfactory answer from a GOM employee, this thread will continue. Live streaming was not something that was promised on non-Windows OS's in the first place, so how can you say that they're screwing people out of anything? When did they ever promise to allow people to stream of VLC or other third party programs? Simply put, you're getting what you paid for. The problem is that you assumed that you were going to get something that was never really part of the agreement in the first place, which is your own fault, not the company's.
GOMTV Apartheid? If I pay the same amount of money for my seasons pass as you do, I expect the same features as you get on your windows machine. If this is the new stance of GOM, there should be a reduced rate for people who are not able to watch the live stream.
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On March 15 2011 07:02 Aberu wrote:
GOMplayer helps block restreaming, in case you all didn't know. That's a big enough reason for them to not want people to use VLC.
Then why have all the restreams I've seen used the GOM Player? Restreaming is not limited to a certain piece of software. The popular streaming websites (UStream, LiveStream, Justin.tv) allow you to just capture whatever is currently showing on your screen and stream that. It doesn't matter if the content on the screen is provided by the GOM Player, VLC, or whatever else you may use.
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I can't believe someone really thinks they are actively blocking non-windows users.
It should be obvious they are trying to endorse the GOM Player by blocking other players. Locking out viewers with other OS is just a side effect.
It's also no secret that the GOM Player has a P2P component which helps GOM to lower their traffic which directly leads to lower costs for traffic which directly leads to more budget for other things. Like paying Artosis more money. I heard he can't even afford meat.
Everyone running the GOM Player supports distributing the stream. And as I believe the guys at GOM, saying that they love Starcraft, I hope they will be able boost the bitrate a little some day to avoid the stream go blur-mode as soon as there is a huge battle.
Helping them to distribute the stream might give them the potential to do so.
I feel a little sorry for the guys that paid premium and use other OS without support for the GOMPlayer. But I don't know if there were ever promises made that other OS would be supported.
Anyways, it might be an option to set up a windows virtual machine. Shouldn't be that hard to execute and makes you a more handsome nerd.
I don't think waiting for OS X or Linux support would be advisable. Everyone can look up the OS distribution via web analysis companies' websites. They are both on low single digit numbers and if you combine that with gamers (/viewers) you'll even get a way lower share. I don't think that would be a smart decision by GOM, from a market-oriented point of view, to develop other OS players.
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One of the major aspects of Blizzard that I have always noticed is that they insist on releasing mac versions for their games along side their windows counterparts. They understand that the extra development time is worth dipping your product into a pool of users that already have/had limited options at their disposal.
I'm frankly shocked more companies haven't realized this - if you make a mac client you're more likely to get a disproportionately higher amount of users/viewers relative to the windows alternative simply because there's less *stuff* available on a mac to begin with.
Blizzard already did a lot of the work by having Starcraft on a mac - its Gom losing out on viewers by not allowing mac users (who already know about/want to watch Starcraft) to view their streams.
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On March 14 2011 22:23 -Archangel- wrote:
I am sorry to burst your bubble, but MAC users are even more rare then Windows Vista users.
I really see no reason for them to really support Mac to gain 100 viewers.
That's not the issue at all.
They already support the platform by making a Mac version of the GOM player available. What's wierd is that the Mac GOM player can't get anything live? Mac users are forced to simply watch the Vods even though we use the same program to watch the games...
Not sure what GOMtv are thinking here, If more people could watch the stuff live they'd get more business. I know I would certainly buy a season ticket every season if I could watch all the match's live.
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Bumping for relevance.
Also, there seems to be more backing behind my post (14 posters now). Seems like nothing, but the more people to post here can only have a positive influence.
My thread can be found here.
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It makes sense that they would be working on releasing a Gom player for mac. Its there property and creating a stream link on VLC is illegal, they want to promote GOMplayer, not VLC. Once they get their Mac GOM player released it should all settle down and be fine
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On March 15 2011 05:07 last light wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 05:04 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:
I don't get why people hate the GOM player. I just downloaded it to watch the GSL from time to time. Its pretty harmless otherwise. Did you not read the OP? Did you not read the message at the top of the thread heeding everyone to read the OP before they posted?
I did read it, but perhaps I should have elaborated. It seems like there are a group of people who are window users (mac users are for obvious reasons) who don't like using GOMtv player. Perhaps I read a series of posts in the wrong context, but that was what I was trying to get at.
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On March 15 2011 08:40 Ridiculisk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 22:23 -Archangel- wrote:
I am sorry to burst your bubble, but MAC users are even more rare then Windows Vista users.
I really see no reason for them to really support Mac to gain 100 viewers. That's not the issue at all. They already support the platform by making a Mac version of the GOM player available. What's wierd is that the Mac GOM player can't get anything live? Mac users are forced to simply watch the Vods even though we use the same program to watch the games... Not sure what GOMtv are thinking here, If more people could watch the stuff live they'd get more business. I know I would certainly buy a season ticket every season if I could watch all the match's live.
If they wanted people to watch it "live" they would offer restream for EU and US in their prime time instead of having it for US in the middle of the night and for EU in the middle of a working day.
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On March 15 2011 09:49 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 08:40 Ridiculisk wrote:On March 14 2011 22:23 -Archangel- wrote:
I am sorry to burst your bubble, but MAC users are even more rare then Windows Vista users.
I really see no reason for them to really support Mac to gain 100 viewers. That's not the issue at all. They already support the platform by making a Mac version of the GOM player available. What's wierd is that the Mac GOM player can't get anything live? Mac users are forced to simply watch the Vods even though we use the same program to watch the games... Not sure what GOMtv are thinking here, If more people could watch the stuff live they'd get more business. I know I would certainly buy a season ticket every season if I could watch all the match's live. If they wanted people to watch it "live" they would offer restream for EU and US in their prime time instead of having it for US in the middle of the night and for EU in the middle of a working day.
And then have tons of people complain about how one side gets it earlier than the other?
I think the crux to this thread is the Mac version of Gomplayer. It's not that Gom wants to alienate Mac users, since they actually do have the Mac version in design (or at least they say they do).
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Mac users can use boot camp and linux users can use VMware -> problem solved.
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On March 15 2011 10:20 Abstinence wrote:
Mac users can use boot camp and linux users can use VMware -> problem solved.
Because I want to pay for Microsoft's OS and buy another hard drive to support Windows applications. Yeah, no. Just give me that Mac OSX GOM Player and I'll be on with my day.
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I think its fair to stop people from using something other than GOM player. It makes sense really.
But they should really get their Mac GOM player working with the GSL stream.
Also, to answer poster above me, Mac computers are not at all popular in Korea. They do love iPhones though 
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On March 14 2011 22:21 Bumblebees wrote:As you can see here: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/g3lyp/fixing_vlc_issues_with_live_gomtv_streams/ among other places, it appears that GOM has been actively blocking and stopping non-windows users from accessing their streams. Every time a new method is found to view the stream, it is disabled quite quickly. (there have been discussions on IRC about a few other methods, which were all disabled within ~15 minutes of being figured out) I'm very confused by this. The GOM player for mac will not play the GSL stream, and there is no GOM player for linux. Are we relegated to simply paying for VODs and not even being able to enjoy a feature of the GSL that users of a specific platform get for free!? I can't imagine this sort of thing being good for their business or e-sports in general. Disallowing paying customers from using your service post-purchase is quite outrageous.
Yeah Gom was definately making it harder for anyone not using windows to see gsl last night. They even did that hard restart of the stream which made people miss huk match. That sent people into a rage and there were still some people that couldn't reconnect without having to reboot their computers. There was a good stretch of time also that you couldn't access hq stream and only get the normal broadcast. Gom player is good but I don't think it's so cool or important to make it harder for other non-gom-players to connect. All of this would be a non issue if gomtv would compile a player for linux and mac.
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