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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
On March 13 2011 00:25 Apolo wrote: There goes the immortal HT combos, mech play, people so much wanted to see in pvt. Gj Blizzard. You mean the mechplay that doesn't work and that is hardcountered x20 by protoss? We will never see that, even when marauders have 10 hp and even when stim is removed. | ||
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DrGreen
Poland708 Posts
On March 13 2011 00:44 DoubleReed wrote: Other casters aren't such a huge friggin' target. They're so big that they have common pathing problems ffs. Not to mention the armored tag to receive extra damage. The ghost has more health than an infestor and it's like 1/3 the size. It's ridiculous. +20 health isn't that much, but apparently it's too much lol. Whatever, it's not any worse than it is now. They could have nerfed the health down to 70 or 60 if they wanted to... HTs are light so they also take additional damage from certain units and have 11 hp less then Infestor. And yeah... Infestor might have problems with pathing cause of its size, but so do immortals/stalkers/tanks/thors. Just learn to control units in battle and it wont be a problem. | ||
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JohnQPublic
United States123 Posts
Amulet may be too strong but even with it templar aren't as good as colossus. Does this not concern anyone? By the time you can reasonably get a HT with 175 energy to be able to storm after emp you could have 5-6 colossus and some phoenix support. The recent San vs SC matches where some of the first I've seen that actually showcased templar tech. Without going too far into the matches for the sake of spoilers SC grossly mishandled his ghost control. San consistently got feedbacks on all of SC ghosts when in a perfect even match THIS SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN. For those of you that are unaware EMP has a range of 10 with a radius of 1 making its effective range 11, feedback is range 9. If you invest as much in ghost as they do in templars it is actually nearly impossible to get storms off with proper control. Once we start to see people actually use ghosts to their full potential (you cannot argue that we are currently, sorry) even with the current state the ghosts come out on top, without amulet I do not know why anyone would go templar. The stubbornness that blizz is showing with patching is very worrying. With all issues the game has in terms of balance whether you subscribe to the zerg whining or not I don't think anyone was thinking "My god protoss is going nothing but storm every game and my emps do nothing to counter it". In fact 80% of my games against or as protoss I see colossus yet there is apparently no issue with them. Zergs have been complaining about balance for the last 6 months and nothing has been done to give zergs even a little bit of hope. This may be a strange concept to those of you that don't play zerg but simply put it is just less fun. It has always felt as if you needed to outplay your opponent quite a bit in order to come out on top. Zerg is harder to play and in a game where everything can be done better why would you ever play zerg? It is frustrating to lose because of minor mistakes when it takes a fairly major one for you to win. As terran vs zerg you know what you are facing because there is only 1 solid strategy and a couple all-ins you have to worry about. Zerg vs terran there is 5-6 ways you can lose instantly in the first 6 minutes and another 20 in the next 4. Just a little push for zerg might actually get me to stop playing random and finally be able to commit myself to the race I want to play. Edit: I sort of came off as if the infestor buff didn't matter. It does it is actually really nice but realistically it doesn't fix any of the reasons zerg is so frustrating to play and thats what I'm really worried about. | ||
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Owii
United States357 Posts
Not only is this pretty damn funny, it's also true. I think that blizzard keeps ignoring what the main issue is, and that's how damned strong the colo is. They're tying to find a perfect balance between ghosts/HT/infestors when colo is still better than HT in all 3 matchups, and in nearly all situations. Until this is addressed, I don't think that the "caster wars" that everyone wants to see will be very common, at least in the PvX matchups. | ||
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Ayush_SCtoss
India3051 Posts
I still don't agree with the amulet removal but we will see how that change affects the scene. | ||
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LesPhoques
Canada782 Posts
Never liked colossi, especially in pvp | ||
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parn
France296 Posts
SC1 offered the possibility to just mass T1 units and outmacro your opponent with tons of zealots/goons, which is almost impossible in SC2. Almost impossible to beat Roaches/Hydras or MM with Zealots/Stalkers/Sentries only, even if you're like 2-3 bases more than your opponent (which also rarely happen in high level games). Best example is of course PvP, showing how ridiculously huge is the gap of investment effectiveness between Colossus and T1 units. In SC1, reavers were the strongest and most expansive units (reavers + shuttle + scarabs) but also the first to die in most of fights, i mean, it never ended with a reaver battle. | ||
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TeWy
France714 Posts
It would be so better if they made the hydraliskoffcreep/archons/mothership/ultralisks/warp-prism/reapers/carriers/raven decent instead of nerfing every good units. What will happen if even before the 2 expansions each race has 2-3 SC1 scout-like unit ??? All these things are interconnected btw... Maybe if Warp-prism was really good, I mean having more than 140 HP an not being absolutely outrun by muta and stimmed-marines, Protoss could rely on multi-task instead of this gigantic stupid deathball of HT/Colossi, thus we wouldn't have to whine about an eventual Khaldarin amulet nerf... | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51632 Posts
On March 13 2011 00:47 Dente wrote: You mean the mechplay that doesn't work and that is hardcountered x20 by protoss? We will never see that, even when marauders have 10 hp and even when stim is removed. Mech is not hard countered by protoss. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
True, it's not that hard although we have immortals. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
Still ht templar soo intense, snipe feedback storm emp fighting it out while the armys wait in save distance hehe. Hope micro will go that far as people will manage to do this while the army fights hehe. | ||
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
On March 13 2011 00:56 LesPhoques wrote: Remove colossi, don't touch amulet, add reaver and arbiter and I am happy. Never liked colossi, especially in pvp If they would change collosi with reaver and add arbiter with scourge that would best thing ever  | ||
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Sanguinarius
United States3427 Posts
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
On March 13 2011 00:58 TeWy wrote: Why are they obsessed about details when there basically are units in SC2 that you almost never see at the Master/semi-pro/pro level ? It would be so better if they made the hydraliskoffcreep/archons/mothership/ultralisks/warp-prism/reapers/carriers/raven decent instead of nerfing every good units. What will happen if even before the 2 expansions each race has 2-3 SC1 scout-like unit ??? All these things are interconnected btw... Maybe if Warp-prism was really good, I mean having more than 140 HP an not being absolutely outrun by muta and stimmed-marines, Protoss could rely on multi-task instead of this gigantic stupid deathball of HT/Colossi, thus we wouldn't have to whine about an eventual Khaldarin amulet nerf... Why is Blizzard obsessed with details? Because they tweaked a unit a little bit? They do that every patch, and it's the reason the balance is actually decent right now. What do you think will happen if they overhaul the game every single patch? | ||
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TeWy
France714 Posts
On March 13 2011 01:06 Grumbels wrote: Why is Blizzard obsessed with details? Because they tweaked a unit a little bit? They do that every patch, and it's the reason the balance is actually decent right now. What do you think will happen if they overhaul the game every single patch? Balance is not high because of Blizzard stupid tweaks, let me assure you of that. For playing the game since Beta, I know several nerfs/buffs that have been absolutely catastrophic and that weren't reverted for some reasons (HSM nerf for instance now you NEVER see it, pretty much same thing for reaper and now it will be the same for Mothership), some changes have been made and then have been reverted few months later, Zealot buildtime comes to mind but there are way more... People are getting better and are somehow balancing the game on their own because of the map-making and their sense of timing, that's it... What changes have been detrimental since Beta ? Warp-gate nerf, barrack nerf, stalker buff, roaches nerf, ultralisk buff, nexus HP buff, phoenix buff, on these ones everyone aggree... asides from that ? Probably tank nerf ... asides from that ? That's it. 7-8 good crucial changes out of more than 1 hundred in 1 year, what about the bad changes or the missing changes ? I'm pretty sure the number exceeds 7-8 by quite a lot. Now don't misunderstand me, I'm not claiming I could necessarily do a better job, just that Blizzard balancing process has been very doubtful since Warcraft 3 and WoW. | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
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Turbo.Tactics
Germany675 Posts
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Icekommander
Canada483 Posts
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`Forte
United States128 Posts
Blizzard has an awful balancing mentality. Any time something might be a problem, they just remove it. Maybe Amulet was too strong, but the last thing you should do is completely remove the strategy. Probably, Terran players haven't experimented with Ghosts enough--they really haven't been used much at a pro level, and EMP is a good skill regardless of whether or not you have HTs. Even if Amulet was too strong, a slight nerf (like it giving 15 energy), or a complete removal with other buffs to make up for it (like HT speed, or Storm doing more damage over time) is a much better option. In the current metagame, Amulet hasn't even been shown to be an overpowering strategy--it's mainly just all in theory. Buffing>>>Nerfing in terms of balance. For example, 5-rax reaper, pylon/cannon blocking ramp, 2-rax bunker push, all things that are very effective vs. Zerg. Instead of looking at the root of the problem, being that Zerg doesn't have great early defensive options, they just nerf the strategies that exploit that. With Blizzard's hardcore "if-something's-kinda-good-then-completely-remove-it" nerfing, each time they nerf, they're just removing a lot of viable strategies from the game. I'd rather play a slightly imbalanced game with many options than a balanced game with very few. Short version, I'm more concerned about the precedent behind nerfing Amulet rather than nerfing Amulet itself. If Blizzard nerfs everything that could potentially be too strong, we'll have a very boring game in a short time. It'd also help if people didn't have such a knee-jerk reaction to everything--the amount of people who legitimately thought mass Queens could be OP after Daily #256 was scary. Quite frankly, the game hasn't been out long enough for strategies to flesh out, so drastic nerfs should not be taking place. | ||
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.kv
United States2332 Posts
The ghost "nerf" I think is just to counter the EMP rush so protoss can still have a couple sentries to cast 1 FF each...50 energy -> 175 energy...well that's just way too long for HTs to even be viable not to mention they can just stack their EMPs and then bam....HTs are useless once again lol...i mean they will gather up enough energy definitely the energy upgrade | ||
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