I can tell you that with the upcoming TSL, MLG, and NASL that I am finding my interest in the GSL really wearing down. Especially with foreigners beginning to leave/not do so well. I admit that the GSL is probably the highest caliber of play but that does not mean it is the most entertaining. I am thinking that this past season will be my last premium ticket.
Anyways, I figured this would be a worthy discussion. With the foreigner scene booming so hard and the new seasons of NA/EU tournaments opening up, will you stay subscribed/interested in GSL?
Poll: Has your interest in GSL lowered?
No, GSL is still my top priority. (1260)
57%
Yes, I don't think I'll be buying more premium tickets. (390)
18%
Yes, but I'll stay subscribed because it is still awesome/other reasons. (303)
14%
No, I am as interested in it as the foreigner scene. (258)
12%
2211 total votes
Your vote: Has your interest in GSL lowered?
(Vote): Yes, I don't think I'll be buying more premium tickets. (Vote): Yes, but I'll stay subscribed because it is still awesome/other reasons. (Vote): No, I am as interested in it as the foreigner scene. (Vote): No, GSL is still my top priority.
Yes because I value skilled play above all else. Doesn't matter the color of the man playing as long as he delivers. As of now, Korean play is above foreign play, so I'll stick to it.
GSL's going to be my top priority until I know that the best play is in another league. I support foreign players and I'd love to see the foreign scene do well, and I hope that the NASL will turn things around, but I think the best play is still in the GSL.
Just the opposite. It increases with each season cause I want to watch the best. I will only watch select nasl games as I already spend hours watching gsl, so don't have time to watch nasl as well. Some people like the MLS, while others prefer to watch the european soccer leagues. To each their own, but I will be sticking with the best.
On March 10 2011 11:52 rysecake wrote: Yes because I value skilled play above all else. Doesn't matter the color of the man playing as long as he delivers. As of now, Korean play is above foreign play, so I'll stick to it.
I can respect that. My main thing is that my favorite players are sort of displacing themselves amongst the foreigner scene rather than trying so hard to get to GSL. I guess I am more loyal to the players than to the actual play itself, which is sort of weird to say.
Code S is still exciting. I'm losing a just a little bit of interest in Code A, but as soon as Seed, Yonghwa and bomber make it through qualifiers should start to get exciting.
No, because I'm never able to watch much anyways, and don't have a credit card to buy a ticket. So every time I watch it at 2 in the morning on Saturday feels like an awesome adventure of watching high level play. The low stream quality for me also makes it very endearing for some reason.
I'll continue to watch it when I have time. I'll also continue to never pay for the vods.
Really stoked for the NASL/TSL, if the vods are free I doubt I'll spend much time watching the GSL anymore unless there's a really good game that's also the first set of the series.
GSL finals will always be a spectacular event though, I'll never miss it live
GSL top priority. I don't really care about foreigners or whatever like some people do, I just wanna see really good games. There was a time when I was doubtful because all anyone was doing ever was cheesing/all-inning (generalization but it was so bad) but with the new maps and players becoming better at defending all-ins the caliber of play went back up. While you may find occasional amazing foreigner games the average GSL game is more entertaining than the average foreigner tournament game IMO.
that may change though, the one real variable is that the NASL hasn't shown how good it's going to be yet, MLG says that this season is the first "real" season for SCII, so the foreigner scene could get better. God knows I don't want to keep staying up until 3-4am to watch matches.
Gsl is still what I will watch, mostly because of the time zone. Australia is 2 hours behind korea which makes the 8pm starting time perfect for some post dinner entertainment
Honestly I really only watch GSL for the Foreigners and while they do provide top games and innovations to the game. I am more interested in Foreign Esports and really excited to see what MLG and NASL will bring. I think the most fun I have ever had watching Starcraft2 was during MLG Dallas at the finals last year. The over the shoulder shot of Tyler playing against Painuser was really cool I liked that they did that though I wish it could have been casted and they did a picture in picture or something like that. Though I like the idea of having tournaments where I could attend and play with like with the Open Tournament with NASL and buying a player pass at MLG which traveling is super important since I work a full time Job. So to answer your question, No GSL is not a top priority for me I prob will stop watching 100% of the games once NASL and MLG start up in April.
Code A has never been better, it feels like some of the players in this season's code A are better than a portion of the code S players. I think Supernova has great potential and I'm excited to see how he does in code S next season.
I'll also follow TSL, but that's simply because of the Korean invites.
If NASL turns out well then I might tune in on that. The thing is, GSL already has enough SC2 going on to keep me content. The fact of the matter is, if you want to see what the current Starcraft 2 state looks like, just watch the GSL games.
I want to watch whomever the best players are. GSL is undoubtedly the toughest tournament with the best players. As much as foreigners keep getting hyped, they can't perform against even mediocre GSL players, with the exception of Jinro.
Guys like Ace and Moon, often criticized as terrible by foreigners, just steam rolled through IEM despite tons of the best foreigners being there. GSL is where it's at.
Code S all the way. The level of play at the moment just seems to be unmatched and I feel the difference will only get bigger as time progresses. Will be keeping track of the foreign tournaments as well but won't be setting aside time for the games until the very last stages of the tournaments.
wow I'm surprised.. I'm always up at the live stream time but I can't even manage to sit through a full game anymore. I thought other people would have the same opinion I guess not
Not the best GSL this season, but GSTL was awesome and though Code A was shit before it's now actually worth watching now. Probably won't buy it for the month of my final exams but thats it
GSL is my top priority. I love supporting foreigners but I feel like the quality of the matches hasn't quite caught up yet, although I hope it will at some point.
Every GSL code A just keeps improving and eventually I expect code A to be exactly as exciting as code S if not for name recognition then at least for the calibre of the players.
GL to anyone who seeks to dethrone GSL as the premier league. It won't be easy...
I don't hold much faith in the competition available at the NASL, ya Idra will be competing other than that, who has won anything that will be involved in NASL?
Definitely losing interest in Code A, I only watched it this season to see the Foreigners. Not interested in any of the Top 4 in Code A right now. Code S is still awesome even without Jinro/Idra
On March 10 2011 12:02 Baffels wrote: I don't hold much faith in the competition available at the NASL, ya Idra will be competing other than that, who has won anything that will be involved in NASL?
Games are getting better and less cheesy, tastosis remain as funny as always, no reason to stop watching. I dont understand all the foreigner bla bla bla, i just want to see good games, idc if the players are asian, european, american, black, white or asian :D
On March 10 2011 12:02 Baffels wrote: I don't hold much faith in the competition available at the NASL, ya Idra will be competing other than that, who has won anything that will be involved in NASL?
I am still interested in the GSL since it started, but because of the time different I haven't watched a lot of games. The only way that I follow the league is by checking scores when I wake up the next morning.
Nope GSL is still what i care about most. If NASL, ESL, TSL, MLG, Dream Hack can bridge my thirst for competitive Sc2 play from Gsl to Gsl. Then its serving me to its fullest capacity.
Also idk why some many people are against Code A. It was a lot more painful to watch last season. I would argue that much of the code A matches have been more entertaining that the Code S ones.
Besides MC i feel most the players remaining in Code S got their by their opponent playing poorly more so than, themselves playing greatly. Code S has been quite underwhelming actually.
On March 10 2011 11:54 baoluvboa wrote: By watching the terrible play in NASL in comparison to GSL, it would only increase my interest.
Where can we find these NASL games you're watching?
Where can I find someone so oblivious to the current skill level disparity of the game? Oh wait...
So you're already judging something you haven't seen yet? Awesome!
This isn't really up for debate anymore. The difference in skill level due to cultural beliefs resulting in Korean being ahead of NA/Europe shouldn't come as a surprise anymore. I have played/watched NA pros and I know I can catch up with them if I play more games but impossible to do the same versus the Koreans.
I'm sticking with the GSL until the NASL or something else can give me a reason not too. I spend hours watching the VODs and I still can't keep up. I still find the Korean players more skilled and more exciting to watch than their Foreign counterparts, The Korean strategies seem to (generally) set the pace for the foreign scene.
Ask me again in a year, when NASL or MLG has had a fair shot at it, but as of right now I don't see anything from them that will make me watch less GSL. I'll catch the foreigners if GSL isn't on, it's clearly a big match or something comes highly recommended, but that's about it.
With so few foreigners doing well I am definitely losing interest. I think when the NASL starts up I will likely watch a lot more of that. I prefer watching players that interact more with the community. However, I still love the casting archon better then any other casters so I may still subscribe to GSL for them.
On March 10 2011 11:54 baoluvboa wrote: By watching the terrible play in NASL in comparison to GSL, it would only increase my interest.
Where can we find these NASL games you're watching?
Where can I find someone so oblivious to the current skill level disparity of the game? Oh wait...
Where can I find someone who dismisses something before it starts, without even knowing who is participating? Xeris just posted that there WILL be Koreans in the NASL.
But they'll play terrible right? Because it's not the GSL? Because you don't have to pay for it? Because they don't have a similar prize pool (oh wait)? Because it will be top players from all over the world instead of just top Koreans?
Maybe the Koreans are more skilled right now, but give pros stateside such a large monetary reason to be the best that they can physically be, and I bet they'll catch up immediately.
Anyway, I agree with Grobyc. Where's the "Yes but I never bought any tickets in the first place." option?
On March 10 2011 12:07 DirtYLOu wrote: I think that GOMTV's priority should be GSTL, not GSL. GSTL is such more entertaining and all that drama would do only better in SC2...
I'll watch TSL3, but the matches I'm most excited to watch are the ones with the Koreans in them. TSL3, with all the excellent foreigners both known and unknown qualifiers, is perhaps the best opportunity for foreigners to prove that they can play on par with the top Koreans. I don't think they stand a chance, but who knows with latency.
I feel that with the upcoming NASL and MLG I do feel more drawn to that,
The reason for this is that the western pro scene feels more like 'home' in a sense, By now we all have our favourite streamer who we will be rooting for at MLG and it adds a bit more of a personal bit to it as opposed to the korean pro scene.
In my opinion GSL is a bit more stiff and really has no room crazy stuff to happen (not that i've seen anyway)
Bosu said something that hit the marker to; "I prefer watching players that interact more with the community."- I agree!
On March 10 2011 11:52 rysecake wrote: Yes because I value skilled play above all else. Doesn't matter the color of the man playing as long as he delivers. As of now, Korean play is above foreign play, so I'll stick to it.
I can respect that. My main thing is that my favorite players are sort of displacing themselves amongst the foreigner scene rather than trying so hard to get to GSL. I guess I am more loyal to the players than to the actual play itself, which is sort of weird to say.
I get attached to players as well, which is why you will probably find rage posts from me when people like Mvp lose. I'm happy that the foreigner scene is expanding but for me, incredible play is a primary attraction, and watching games by Mvp, MC, etc. are what give me that exhilarating feeling. So yea, I actually follow the players more than the play itself so to speak, it's just that my favorite players are korean haha
I really don't get the criticism of Korean play. They play to win, as any professional should. Sometimes that means a protracted macro game, sometimes that means a timing push that ends the game at 10 minutes, sometimes it means an all-in because of a greedy opponent. They just do what is best in the situation. This sometimes results in the same build several times in a row, or a highly varied Bo5 where we never see the same build twice.
I'm attracted to players who prove themselves the most skilled, I don't care what colour skin they have or what language they speak. A lot of foreigners talk tough, let's see them prove themselves in TSL3 and any other major tournament where they have to face solid Koreans.
I will follow Tastosis and the best players in the world wherever they go. GSL definitely still the one for me, although I will follow as many other leagues as possible. Very excited about NASL and TSL in particular.
the tournament with the best players is the most important one to watch imo, secondary priority being best casters. currently gsl has both and i wouldent stop paying for gsl to pay for something else unless it had allready finished a season with gsl level quality.
i certainly wouldent mind seeing more foreigners, especially north american players doing well in tournaments but id rather watch the highest level of play. also while i dont mind watching games cast from replays seeing the players in the studio is pretty nice.
also for me nasl will be watchable pretty easily without paying, 2 streams a day with better quality than goms paid stream sounds nice.
On March 10 2011 12:07 DirtYLOu wrote: I think that GOMTV's priority should be GSTL, not GSL. GSTL is such more entertaining and all that drama would do only better in SC2...
Indeed, A SC2 Proleague would be so amazing.
Personally i would like a longer more drawn out version of GSTL. However i disagree with it being GoM's main focus.
The problem for me is that I struggle to enjoy watching a competitive tournament like MLG if I know it's actually just not all the best players in the world. It's like, yeah he won MLG, but what does that even mean? He's the best of the worst? It just doesn't seem properly competitive at that point and I lose interest. Not completely, obviously I'll still enjoy watching some of my favourite players, but the attraction of GSL is knowing that these are absolutely THE BEST players out there, and this one guy beat them all out for the crown and a life-changing amount of money.
Also Toastasis casts the GSL and I doubt there will be such a dynamic duo for a very long long time. I actually just love watching those guys so much, they could be reporting the weather and I'd still be doing barrel rolls about it.
I dont really watch Code A unless like its a foreigner playing, but code S is where its at, i never really watched Code A even with tastotis was casting it
I'll watch whatever's the highest level of play (and anything involving TL), which is definitely GSL at the moment. I'm not really that hyped for NASL if they're really going to do the max 5 Koreans thing even though I understand their reasons for it.
I'm definitely less interested in this season's GSL though, but that's because most of what I think are the best players right now have already been eliminated.
The quality and high level of play is important to me, so my interest in the GSL is still high. The best players are in the GSL. Having foreigners participate in the GSL is a sweet bonus, too.
The NASL will more than likely be on at a more reasonable hour so i will definitely be watching it more, but in no way is my interest in the GSL lowering. If anything it is growing due to the level of skill greatly increasing in both code A and S. But my body does often hate me for staying up til 2/3am and having to wake up 5 hours later.
This is the post regarding people talking about skill level, etc.
To have good games, you don't have to have to watch Best Protoss play against Best Terran. People of similar skill will bring exciting games, whether semi-professional or professional players. As long as both players play at their best and are around equally skillful, games will be amazing. I don't think gap between Korea and foreign scene is big and NASL will be my top priority when it will come out. Then it will be GSL.
On March 10 2011 12:19 LesPhoques wrote: This is the post regarding people talking about skill level, etc.
To have good games, you don't have to have to watch Best Protoss play against Best Terran. People of similar skill will bring exciting games, whether semi-professional or professional players. As long as both players play at their best and are around equally skillful, games will be amazing. I don't think gap between Korea and foreign scene is big and NASL will be my top priority when it will come out. Then it will be GSL.
If that was true, why did mediocre GSL Code A drop out Ace 10-0 his way through the top foreigners at IEM? Why did top foreigners like Huk and Ret bomb out at GSL Code A despite impressive performances in foreigner tournaments?
My favorite players compete in GSL (Fruitdealer, NeaTea, Losira, Jinro, NaDa and Ace). Must watch for me. I look forward getting home from school watching them when I know a marquee match has been played, I also get up on my days off to watch them. Premium ticket is also at a bargain price. Simply cannot go wrong.
The only sc2 I pay attention to is the gsl, so it's a pretty safe bet that I'll keep subscribing. Outside of korea the only foreigner I'll pay attention to is the tsl3 of course. Part of what turns me off from foreigner stuff is the awful casting, outside of day9 I generally have to mute everything.
On March 10 2011 12:19 LesPhoques wrote: This is the post regarding people talking about skill level, etc.
To have good games, you don't have to have to watch Best Protoss play against Best Terran. People of similar skill will bring exciting games, whether semi-professional or professional players. As long as both players play at their best and are around equally skillful, games will be amazing. I don't think gap between Korea and foreign scene is big and NASL will be my top priority when it will come out. Then it will be GSL.
You're confusing the level of play in a game with how exciting the game is to watch. Of course having the best players in the world play doesn't always mean the games are extremely tense and exciting (just watch some of the Flash vs Jaedong games -_-;; ) and semi pros can still produce cool games, but to me the level of play displayed in a game is more important than how close and exciting it is. I'll take watching MVP roflstomp Hyperdub over a tense series between lalush and lzgamer any day.
Only this season a little cuz a lot of my favourite players got knocked out relatively quickly. Also that one day when the stream was just completely unwatchable leaves a really bad impression for this season I guess. Still a lot of good players in gsl, maps are epic, will still follow and look forward to next season as always.
Playing: I never liked PLAYING ladder. Now that SC2 is not even installed on my PC anymore (bz with life), I'm losing interest even more. I made a thread about this before. Many people here actually don't play ladder either.
Freshness: GSL 1 & 2 were VERY exciting. It's awesome to follow all pros with each distinct styles. As a casual SC2 lover, it got old suddenly. Look at HD & Husky views, they're dropping significantly compared to last summer/fall. The game itself is losing popularity I think.
In Korea, pro scene on national level works and SC can live on. In US, there are SO many games to keep everyone's attention, esp Modern Warfare, Halo stuff. I realized SC2 is just another game to the mainstream gamers.
Too much stuff going on: 'GSL' last year was easy to follow- just simple brackets. Now there are GSL, Code S, Code A, and 2398473 different tournaments that also decide GSL. Since I lost interest, it's hard to bother to follow fully.
Lack of foreigners: Last year was best with colorful players like idrA, TLO, Jinro, that Chinese kid, etc. Now they all left because, let's be honest, they can't handle the Koreans. I know Jinro, Huk, and few are still here, but meh...
Time: I made the commitment to wake up at 5-6am to watch. With my waning interest, it's hard to wake up for it. And because I don't watch it, I lose further interest. Spending $$ on ticket is now out of the question.
On March 10 2011 12:19 LesPhoques wrote: This is the post regarding people talking about skill level, etc.
To have good games, you don't have to have to watch Best Protoss play against Best Terran. People of similar skill will bring exciting games, whether semi-professional or professional players. As long as both players play at their best and are around equally skillful, games will be amazing. I don't think gap between Korea and foreign scene is big and NASL will be my top priority when it will come out. Then it will be GSL.
The casual gamers probably won't notice the difference too much, but as a ~~3500 masters I see a huge difference watching Incontrol's stream versus Huk's stream. The difference in skill levels of both the streamers and their opponents (korean server versus Na server) is huge. Another thing is that most NA gamers are now doing coaching for a lot of money and I doubt the time spent on coaching while beneficial for the community (debatable) is increasing their own skill level.
So when I watch NA/EURO leagues vs the GSL, GSL just seems so smooth while the NA/EURO players make many mistakes.
I only watch it when someone i like or a big name is playing in code S. I have no money to buy a ticket, and it is on so late so i'm only willing to sacrifice sleep for the best player.
On March 10 2011 11:58 Grobyc wrote: Needs a "Yes, but never had a premium ticket in the first place" poll option.
eh if you never had a premium ticket in the first place your opinion inn the poll doesnt really mean much imo this is for people who liked the gsl in the first place
The only thing I miss is the Code S interviews by Artosis and John, I miss the troll interviews. If we didn't have the John + HuK interviews then I wouldn't watch them most likely.
On March 10 2011 12:19 LesPhoques wrote: This is the post regarding people talking about skill level, etc.
To have good games, you don't have to have to watch Best Protoss play against Best Terran. People of similar skill will bring exciting games, whether semi-professional or professional players. As long as both players play at their best and are around equally skillful, games will be amazing. I don't think gap between Korea and foreign scene is big and NASL will be my top priority when it will come out. Then it will be GSL.
If that was true, why did mediocre GSL Code A drop out Ace 10-0 his way through the top foreigners at IEM? Why did top foreigners like Huk and Ret bomb out at GSL Code A despite impressive performances in foreigner tournaments?
I'm not saying the skill difference between Koreans and foreigners is small, but Huk did make it farther than Ace in code A so I think that's a bad example.
The recent IEM results certainly are convincing, but they're not remarkable as the Korean structure of e-sports simply builds the best players. The money is there, the housing is there, all they have to focus on in life is being the best.
That system simply isn't there for any place outside of Korea. Yet. With the multitudes of large tournaments in the west and the growth of e-sports teams, specifically with regard to money alone, we're going to build a system to mimic theirs and hopefully get world-class foreigners. The NASL, the TSL, MLG, IEM, and Dreamhack will all contribute to this future of esports, and this is just the beginning.
Judging by some of the posts in this thread it legitimately sounds like people think Koreans are genetically modified to be winning machines in RTS games. I wouldn't be surprised if the results at IEM aren't indicative of future tournaments, if only because of the increasing popularity of e-sports outside of Korea.
That said, for now I don't blame anybody for ignoring other tournaments to focus on the GSL. I'll probably be doing the same. But if any one of those tournaments produce games that are even remotely close to the skill level / entertainment value of the GSL code S matches, AND if they release the games for free, I can see my future self following the GSL only in the battle reports in the news post, and I bet a lot of people will follow suit.
On March 10 2011 11:58 Grobyc wrote: Needs a "Yes, but never had a premium ticket in the first place" poll option.
eh if you never had a premium ticket in the first place your opinion inn the poll doesnt really mean much imo this is for people who liked the gsl in the first place
Just because people don't buy tickets, that doesn't mean they don't like the GSL. I stay up and watch the GSL matches whenever possible and have never bought a ticket.
As a fan of ESPORTS and especially as a veteran of this community I like to think Grobyc's opinion matters just as much as anybody else in this thread.
On March 10 2011 12:12 Zzoram wrote: I really don't get the criticism of Korean play. They play to win, as any professional should. Sometimes that means a protracted macro game, sometimes that means a timing push that ends the game at 10 minutes, sometimes it means an all-in because of a greedy opponent. They just do what is best in the situation. This sometimes results in the same build several times in a row, or a highly varied Bo5 where we never see the same build twice.
I'm attracted to players who prove themselves the most skilled, I don't care what colour skin they have or what language they speak. A lot of foreigners talk tough, let's see them prove themselves in TSL3 and any other major tournament where they have to face solid Koreans.
I can't speak for other people, but I think it's because there has been a surprising lack of solid play in the GSLs, particularly in the <ro8 in both the S and A class.
The stereotypical foreign approach seems to be to try to bring the game more or less into the lategame and win with macro. But in the GSL, especially early seasons, there are a lot of all-in moves, and there were a lot of games where players would just trade heavy blows with one another and see who comes out standing. Like how drunk cowboys fight in movies -- not a lot of finesse. Things seem to have gotten better, though, IMO.
My interest in Code A has drastically lowered with the carousel of commentators. GOM needs to find the consistency that is there in Tastosis. With Code A, you never know what level of commentary you are going to get because there is always a distinct lack of chemistry that is really taking away from the increased level of play (compared to last season).
i've been enjoying code A much more this season because there's so many good players coming through the ranks now and bad one's getting sifted out. Code S is still good, july/nada series was really entertaining. Wth so many tournaments I only really want to watch/pay for the highest level of skill and that is still the gsl. Really looking forward to tsl though because it has a nice international line up.
My interest fades as the foreigners drop. This month the story of Sans dominance after claiming he didn't think he would do well, or wanted to do well has been entertaining. The tournament just doesn't have the new amazing feel it had when it was new, so abusing my sleep schedule nightly just doesn't seem worth it anymore.
On March 10 2011 12:12 Zzoram wrote: I really don't get the criticism of Korean play. They play to win, as any professional should. Sometimes that means a protracted macro game, sometimes that means a timing push that ends the game at 10 minutes, sometimes it means an all-in because of a greedy opponent. They just do what is best in the situation. This sometimes results in the same build several times in a row, or a highly varied Bo5 where we never see the same build twice.
I'm attracted to players who prove themselves the most skilled, I don't care what colour skin they have or what language they speak. A lot of foreigners talk tough, let's see them prove themselves in TSL3 and any other major tournament where they have to face solid Koreans.
I can't speak for other people, but I think it's because there has been a surprising lack of solid play in the GSLs, particularly in the <ro8 in both the S and A class.
The stereotypical foreign approach seems to be to try to bring the game more or less into the lategame and win with macro. But in the GSL, especially early seasons, there are a lot of all-in moves, and there were a lot of games where players would just trade heavy blows with one another and see who comes out standing. Like how drunk cowboys fight in movies -- not a lot of finesse. Things seem to have gotten better, though, IMO.
Foreigners all playing greedy doesn't mean they play more solid. Knowing when to all-in to punish greed is part of solid play.
The final eight for Code A might've been better than the final eight for Code S this season. The good players are only just coming through the ranks. Of course, TSL is going to blow everything out of the water as usual, but GSL is slowly getting better.
I'm reluctant to admit that Kelly put me off from watching any of the code A matches. But now that she's gone it's all good. GSL has the best players, best production, and best commentators (for code S at least).
To be honest, for me I find if I watch the foreign scene I get bored where as GSL seems to actually make me wanna watch more of it.
Maybe its the casting, maybe its the quality.
However I will say I do not watch every game because it would just take up too much of my day, I work from 730 ish till 5-530 every day so I do not get alot of free time, so I will pick and choose my games based on the players in them I will pick 1 player from each group to follow and when they get knocked out I stop watching that group unless they all get knocked out then I will pick a new "round" of guys. Currently I only have July and Losira left to watch (I prefer watching zerg play).
I used to watch every match but I found I did not have enough time for the rest of my life outside of work and GSL. (Probably the same reason Tastosis stopped casting Code A)
Code A is getting better and better (you see a lot of previous season two base plays and new builds), and effectively following in the footsteps of previous code S and open season GSLs while code S is now much more macro-based, epic games that tend to lend itself to consistency rather than creative play. I don't know about the NASL, but after seeing so many foreigners get roflstomped, I doubt there'll be a better league in than the GSL. Plus Idra left. He'll be on a completely different level of play when he joins the NASL.
On March 10 2011 12:12 Zzoram wrote: I really don't get the criticism of Korean play. They play to win, as any professional should. Sometimes that means a protracted macro game, sometimes that means a timing push that ends the game at 10 minutes, sometimes it means an all-in because of a greedy opponent. They just do what is best in the situation. This sometimes results in the same build several times in a row, or a highly varied Bo5 where we never see the same build twice.
I'm attracted to players who prove themselves the most skilled, I don't care what colour skin they have or what language they speak. A lot of foreigners talk tough, let's see them prove themselves in TSL3 and any other major tournament where they have to face solid Koreans.
I can't speak for other people, but I think it's because there has been a surprising lack of solid play in the GSLs, particularly in the <ro8 in both the S and A class.
The stereotypical foreign approach seems to be to try to bring the game more or less into the lategame and win with macro. But in the GSL, especially early seasons, there are a lot of all-in moves, and there were a lot of games where players would just trade heavy blows with one another and see who comes out standing. Like how drunk cowboys fight in movies -- not a lot of finesse. Things seem to have gotten better, though, IMO.
Foreigners all playing greedy doesn't mean they play more solid. Knowing when to all-in to punish greed is part of solid play.
Agreed. It's just that a lot of the play in the GSL hasn't been solid -- it's been agressive to a fault. The people who complain about Korean play probably prefer when players err on the side of greedy.
I'm not saying the skill difference between Koreans and foreigners is small, but Huk did make it farther than Ace in code A so I think that's a bad example.
The recent IEM results certainly are convincing, but they're not remarkable as the Korean structure of e-sports simply builds the best players. The money is there, the housing is there, all they have to focus on in life is being the best.
Yes HuK made it further than Ace but if HuK vs. Ace, Ace would probably win. Your statement about HuK getting further meaning he's better than Ace is invalid. Ace actually qualified for GSL while HuK never did. But I do like HuK one of my favorite foreigners, and I hope he stays awhile.
You might say Ace qualified in the easier GSL (GSL 2). WRONG he also qualified for this season too! After getting knocked out last season by TOP, which this is the far most hardest GSL to qualify in.
only ever watched code A for protoss/foreigners. code s still delivers as much as it ever had, and tastosis makes it even better.
however, i'm a pretty diehard sc2 watcher, so whenever there is a chance for good games i'm going to watch. whether that's GSL, NASL, IEM, GCPL, even a craftcup final if somebody i enjoy watching is playing that's all that matters really. GSL just has constant quality content so that gets the most of my time.
GSL will be my top priority until MLG and NASL start rolling out. Then, I don't know. It will depend on their production quality and player quality. Hopefully we'll see good games there, and American tournaments become a big deal.
honestly it sounds like code a is getting kinda shit on relative to their skill level. casting isint as good as code s and it sucks alot of the code a players arent well known but each season the games are dramatically better. i wouldent be surprised if next season 75% of the code a players could get 1st at a non korean tournament as long as there arent other koreans better than them there.
i try to watch every eu/na tournament with a prize over $5k and i never feel i learn that much compared to gsl games. if i am impressed theres probably players who trained in korea involved(winning).
On March 10 2011 12:45 RobbybabyDTF wrote: Should make an option for interest going up by the season, as that is the case for me and my friends. Rooting for MC and Huk <33333
Sorry to break it to you but Huk lost a few days ago.
I like Huk too, but he played pretty poorly when he lost. Particularly the + Show Spoiler +
shitty cannon all-in where he spent 550 minerals on nothing.
On March 10 2011 11:58 Grobyc wrote: Needs a "Yes, but never had a premium ticket in the first place" poll option.
This.
I haven't watched nearly as much of this season as I have in the past. Getting up at 4AM to watch live finally caught up to me this season.
All the upsets should have made for a more interesting season, but instead it zapped my interest level. Also, with no Idra and Jinro falling early and Huk being Huk, I just don't have a "local" guy to root for.
Really looking forward to MLG Dallas and the start of NASL.
Not that interested in the upcoming GSL "World Championship". Hopefully GSL May will peak my interest.
On March 10 2011 12:45 RobbybabyDTF wrote: Should make an option for interest going up by the season, as that is the case for me and my friends. Rooting for MC and Huk <33333
Sorry to break it to you but Huk lost a few days ago.
I like Huk too, but he played pretty poorly when he lost. Particularly the + Show Spoiler +
shitty cannon all-in where he spent 550 minerals on nothing.
Up and Down matches he has to play still don't worry chum
GSL is still the only SC2 production that I will pay for every time hands down, so much better than anything "premium" that IEM/MLG/Assembly etc has done
Tastosis+best players in the world+production value=mega win
for me currently as a casual player but avid watcher of anything i can get my hands on sc2 related GSL is my top priority. Other events would grab my interest but their organization and presentation of their content detours me. One for example would be the IEM, luckily TeamLiquid threads keep me up to date with whats happening and informed of the results but their site and how they have countless streams and weird times/delays totally turn me off. I love how with GOMtv they have the production quality good schedule and great site delivering direct common sense content so untill then they will always be my #1. I currently have big hopes tho for the NASL if they can deliver good consistent well planned out content they will have my money every time.
Code A was very disappointing today, but thus far has featured much better play than in previous seasons, and some more varied builds.
Code S has been brilliant and unpredictable this season, with some Zerg play that has really challenged the orthodoxy, and been really engaging If you didn't enjoy July v Nada, there's no hope for you. The new maps have changed things for the better in a big way as well, and I think that has really shaken things up at the top.
While the idea of the game progressing in the west is attractive to me, I still want to watch the highest level of play, and I think it would be a massive result if the other competitions almost functioned as feeder leagues in the same way that the lesser football leagues do for the premiership, la liga etc.
I really believe the GSL will continue to develop, there's nothing like it in terms of production and quality, and there's no reason to think that will change in the near future. The game is still quite young, and no one has really emerged as a super dominant force as of yet, because the meta game is so fluid, and the map pool has changed so significantly. I think as certain players develop a history and defining play style, the human aspects of the game can become more relevant as they were with Brood War spectating.
The GSL season ticket is a fantastic value, as far as I'm concerned.
Tushin is back on top, so GSL is my priority for now. However, that might change once TSL starts, depending on how well the foreigners do against the koreans. If it becomes BW WCG, then it reduces to another chance to watch the top korean pros play, which is never bad but at the same time not as interesting from a competitive point of view.
On March 10 2011 12:45 RobbybabyDTF wrote: Should make an option for interest going up by the season, as that is the case for me and my friends. Rooting for MC and Huk <33333
Sorry to break it to you but Huk lost a few days ago.
I like Huk too, but he played pretty poorly when he lost. Particularly the + Show Spoiler +
shitty cannon all-in where he spent 550 minerals on nothing.
Up and Down matches he has to play still don't worry chum
I honestly really love the GSL, but I have trouble staying up so often to watch the whole thing Not everyone has the luxury of being able to stay up all night to watch all of Code S (or even code A for that matter) whenever its live, and for me personally, watching VODs just isn't the same as watching it love
If anything, except for GSL 1 where Fruitdealer won I am even more interested in the GSL. The play is just getting better and the maps are getting better too. GSTL was also quite great. NASL I will probably be interested in too but GSL is actually for me growing better as time goes on. TSL looks good too.
I think people are losing more interest in the GSL is because of the new maps. I think they liked watching the players play on the maps that they laddered on.
On March 10 2011 12:56 Louuster wrote: Tushin is back on top, so GSL is my priority for now. However, that might change once TSL starts, depending on how well the foreigners do against the koreans. If it becomes BW WCG, then it reduces to another chance to watch the top korean pros play, which is never bad but at the same time not as interesting from a competitive point of view.
The best players winning is never a bad thing from a competitive point of view.
I wonder what will happen in Koreans dominate MLG/TSL/NASL. Will they get banned?
While I am less interested in watching every single second of the GSL, thats more out of becoming a bit used to the whole thing, its less thrilling. Now that i have the premium ticket, its only really the big name games that I watch Live, and its quite common for me to only watch 1 or 2 matches in a night's of games then watch the rest in VOD form over breakfast the next day or something.
YEEEESSS! My expectation for the GSL has totaly lowerd now that Artosis and Tastless are'nt casting as much, and now they've got that Korean chick, gah, whata shame. My interest for Code A was never high at all except for the foreginers playin, and now it'll be about the same for Code S, althought ill probably be interested in the semi-finals and finals reguardless of foreginers.
GSL is great and the time zone isn't an issue for me obviously. It is true that I'm more interested when a TLer is playing but that's natural. I will also say I am enjoying Code A games a lot more this Season.
NASL will be at a silly time, though of course I'm still interested in it.
Edit: I agree in general it's more interesting watching games on maps I ladder on, because I will follow them better; this despite the fact that larger maps were sorely needed.
Watching live is always more exciting, and with the crappy GSL timeslot of 4am EST, I can see why that would damper interest. However, watching GSL games live is still the highest level of competition and most exciting Starcraft II there is to watch.
One thing I don't get is why are some people ONLY interested in watching the foreigners play? Even if the foreigners aren't as good as the Koreans, they will stop watching when they get knocked out. It makes no sense to me whatsoever... if the best players in the world are playing in the GSL, then I'll continue to watch.
On March 10 2011 12:45 RobbybabyDTF wrote: Should make an option for interest going up by the season, as that is the case for me and my friends. Rooting for MC and Huk <33333
Sorry to break it to you but Huk lost a few days ago.
I like Huk too, but he played pretty poorly when he lost. Particularly the + Show Spoiler +
shitty cannon all-in where he spent 550 minerals on nothing.
Up and Down matches he has to play still don't worry chum
Who is going to be in his bracket?
It hasn't been decided yet. The top 2 players in Code A get to choose their bracket, then everyone else gets a random bracket.
On March 10 2011 13:00 Clare wrote: One thing I don't get is why are some people ONLY interested in watching the foreigners play? Even if the foreigners aren't as good as the Koreans, they will stop watching when they get knocked out. It makes no sense to me whatsoever... if the best players in the world are playing in the GSL, then I'll continue to watch.
It's the whiteness factor. Many white people want to watch white people win. People rarely admit it, but it's the truth. A lot of the Europeans have mangled English and boring interviews as well, but their whiteness makes them more interesting to many people than a superior Korean player.
On March 10 2011 12:56 JerKy wrote: I honestly really love the GSL, but I have trouble staying up so often to watch the whole thing Not everyone has the luxury of being able to stay up all night to watch all of Code S (or even code A for that matter) whenever its live, and for me personally, watching VODs just isn't the same as watching it love
The VODs are so nice in high quality tho ^_^ Plus they are SUPER EASY TO FIND unlike for other tournaments/organizations. Bam right there on the front page.
On March 10 2011 13:00 Clare wrote: One thing I don't get is why are some people ONLY interested in watching the foreigners play? Even if the foreigners aren't as good as the Koreans, they will stop watching when they get knocked out. It makes no sense to me whatsoever... if the best players in the world are playing in the GSL, then I'll continue to watch.
It's the whiteness factor. Many white people want to watch white people win. People rarely admit it, but it's the truth. A lot of the Europeans have mangled English and boring interviews as well, but their whiteness makes them more interesting to many people than a superior Korean player.
So they kinda view it as a white vs Asian thing? That's weird.
GSL will always be a priority for me. Mvp NesTea MC just have no analogues in the western SC2 scene. If NASL manages to get around 8 - 12 top Koreans in their league then it would lend much more credibility to NASL. I will watch them anyway just giving pririty to the GSL.
Well, I am still interested in it, I just never get to watch it because I can't stay up till like 7 am on the weekdays to watch SC2. If I could stay up, I would still watch Code S, not so much Code A though.
I am interested in it, but not paying for the premium tickets. Stream quality has never been good for me, I only watch when it's not a hassle (what is it, friday or saturday nights USA time when they do the early show?)
I can't realistically expect GSL to broadcast in NA time, that would be unrealistic, but it's the cold hard facts that better stream quality in theory, better time zones and names I may recognize a bit more (I only know about 1/3 of the GSL field) just leads to more NASL and MLG interest for me.
Its the best option for now but i'll be switching over to the NASL most likely. Having more well-known (in the western scene) players is a big plus for me. I could care less what country they're from, I just want people I can root for in more than just the GSL even if the other competitions aren't as glorious or whatever.
On March 10 2011 13:01 Essentia wrote: I have 0 interest in GSL ever since IdrA withdrew and moved back to USA.
Idra is good but Jinro is a much cooler guy to watch play and hear in interviews.
Besides, Idra talks a ton of shit and people eat it up but he's often wrong. Remember when he called Nestea talentless? Yet Nestea turned out to be the best Zerg player, and probably still is, in the world.
The GSL is great and I love watching Jinro, Huk, Haypro and others fight up the ranks, and the great play of all the competitors is a blast to watch. Honestly though even if there were no foreigners in the tournament and everyone sucked I'd still watch it for tastosis. And I pay for the premium stream.
On March 10 2011 13:00 Clare wrote: One thing I don't get is why are some people ONLY interested in watching the foreigners play? Even if the foreigners aren't as good as the Koreans, they will stop watching when they get knocked out. It makes no sense to me whatsoever... if the best players in the world are playing in the GSL, then I'll continue to watch.
It's the whiteness factor. Many white people want to watch white people win. People rarely admit it, but it's the truth. A lot of the Europeans have mangled English and boring interviews as well, but their whiteness makes them more interesting to many people than a superior Korean player.
So they kinda view it as a white vs Asian thing? That's weird.
I root for foreigners because they're the underdogs and are easier to relate to becuase they are closer to my age and culture. I feel like an outsider to the Korean SC scene so I root for the outsiders. Also, foreigners never ever had a chance in BW for the past decade or so. A lot of the big fans of foreigners remember having that feeling with BW. It's nice to see foreigners having a decent go and it feels like a wall has broken down.
On March 10 2011 13:08 Saig0n wrote: GSL is extremely entertaining, however I look forward to the NASL and MLG even more. I just love rooting for foreigners.
Oh I do too. I really like a lot of foreigners. I just don't fool myself into thinking they're the best in the world. Foreigners certainly stand a lot closer to top Koreans in SC2 than they did in BW, but that gap is only widening with time.
We keep hearing about foreigner training houses, but that's yet to happen and it really doesn't look like it ever seriously will. If it does, it'll be a temporary half-way house at best, not like a Korean pro-team house where they actually live together training for years instead of months.
My interest dropped mildly this season with all the big names getting KOed early, but the games are still good, and that's all I really care about. I pretty much lost interest in non-foreign Code A games last season, but this season is so much better.
GSL is my top priority. I see no reason to settle for anything less than the highest level of play. I couldn't care less if there were foreigners or not. I just want to see the most skilled players duke it out. I'll probably get some flak for saying this, but it confuses me when people are only interested in the GSL for the foreigners. Do you not care at all about the actual play itself, only about your favorite "foreign" players (which I find mildly annoying since it implies discrimination against Koreans IMO. Do you like your "foreign" players just because they are "foreign"? What happened to enjoying the game itself?) I've seen so many people complain after a foreigner got eliminated from the GSL time and time again that "there's no reason to continue watching". Ugh.
On March 10 2011 13:00 Clare wrote: One thing I don't get is why are some people ONLY interested in watching the foreigners play? Even if the foreigners aren't as good as the Koreans, they will stop watching when they get knocked out. It makes no sense to me whatsoever... if the best players in the world are playing in the GSL, then I'll continue to watch.
It's the whiteness factor. Many white people want to watch white people win. People rarely admit it, but it's the truth. A lot of the Europeans have mangled English and boring interviews as well, but their whiteness makes them more interesting to many people than a superior Korean player.
Don't BS please, lots of foreigners are of asian descent. It's the fact that we know them from small tournaments that Koreans don't know about, streams, and forum posts, much like Korean fans know the lesser-known Koreans.
Cella is much more widely known than most Koreans of his skill level because he streams, Select isn't white but he's as well or more well known to foreigners than a lot of white players. Using the race card is just so wrong here.
On March 10 2011 13:00 Clare wrote: One thing I don't get is why are some people ONLY interested in watching the foreigners play? Even if the foreigners aren't as good as the Koreans, they will stop watching when they get knocked out. It makes no sense to me whatsoever... if the best players in the world are playing in the GSL, then I'll continue to watch.
It's the whiteness factor. Many white people want to watch white people win. People rarely admit it, but it's the truth. A lot of the Europeans have mangled English and boring interviews as well, but their whiteness makes them more interesting to many people than a superior Korean player.
Don't BS please, lots of foreigners are of asian descent. It's the fact that we know them from small tournaments that Koreans don't know about, streams, and forum posts, much like Korean fans know the lesser-known Koreans.
Cella is much more widely known than most Koreans of his skill level because he streams, Select isn't white but he's as well or more well known to foreigners than a lot of white players. Using the race card is just so wrong here.
I'm not saying it's the only factor, but it's definitely a really big one that people aren't willing to admit. Select doesn't get half the attention that he should, everyone was shitting on his play despite making it to the MLG finals having to play more matches than anyone else at that tournament.
Even in the coverage of GSL qualifiers, Incontrol gets a ton of screen time but Select, who is likely a much better foreigner player, gets almost nothing. Plus when you hear people talk about foreigners in GSL, they always forget guys like Sen and Loner. Why do you think that is?
i lost a little bit of interest when they changed it to code:A/S. just seperates players and makes it harder to follow. i understand the need for 2 divisions, but i dont like it.
My interest in the GSL season depends entirely on who is still in it. This season has probably attracted the lowest interest from me yet because of the Ro32. It's the same for a lot of the BW people, where everyone goes up in arms and thinks it's the end of BW when Flash and JD and Bisu get eliminated prematurely. For me those players like Nestea MVP Boxer etc all went out in the first round and it was like.....well...fuck
Tastosis is still the best casting team, almost worth buying premium tickets for that alone.
Code A I don't know though. Both seasons they've had some good games, but the last few rounds have been really disappointing. It's almost like the players stop caring once they get tot he up-and-down matches.
On March 10 2011 13:00 Clare wrote: One thing I don't get is why are some people ONLY interested in watching the foreigners play? Even if the foreigners aren't as good as the Koreans, they will stop watching when they get knocked out. It makes no sense to me whatsoever... if the best players in the world are playing in the GSL, then I'll continue to watch.
It's the whiteness factor. Many white people want to watch white people win. People rarely admit it, but it's the truth. A lot of the Europeans have mangled English and boring interviews as well, but their whiteness makes them more interesting to many people than a superior Korean player.
Don't BS please, lots of foreigners are of asian descent. It's the fact that we know them from small tournaments that Koreans don't know about, streams, and forum posts, much like Korean fans know the lesser-known Koreans.
Cella is much more widely known than most Koreans of his skill level because he streams, Select isn't white but he's as well or more well known to foreigners than a lot of white players. Using the race card is just so wrong here.
I'm not saying it's the only factor, but it's definitely a really big one that people aren't willing to admit. Select doesn't get half the attention that he should, everyone was shitting on his play despite making it to the MLG finals having to play more matches than anyone else at that tournament.
Even in the coverage of GSL qualifiers, Incontrol gets a ton of screen time but Select, who is likely a much better foreigner player, gets almost nothing. Plus when you hear people talk about foreigners in GSL, they always forget guys like Sen and Loner. Why do you think that is?
I feel like you are definitely hitting some piece of an uncomfortable truth around here. Indeed, I've complained in the past about people forgetting players like Sen and Loner when talking about foreigners. It's pretty annoying.
Yes, I stopped caring when less and less foreigners showed up for it. Also Idk the quality of the game have gotten better however there are still pretty serious disappointing match ups every now and then and It gets annoying when bad players still get into code S
I love GSL and with foreigners fighting in it, it's even more interesting. Jinro is out and Huk is out till the up and down, but I still watch it. I used to watch BW so much that I just love the Korean scene. As for Code A, well this season is a bit harder to watch. I pretty much watched every game in all 5 GSL, but this Code A I've been skipping quite a few. I'll tune in to the finals tho, that's for sure.
Also, Tastosis can sometime add so much to a game. The players make the game, sure, but sometimes the caster can give out something quite entertaining.
GSL is still tops for me. I'm excited to see the development of the NASL in particular, but few things interest me other than that in the foreigner scene.
It's just the Koreans play for a freaking living and 24/7 at that! They are all about perfecting their starcraft skills - which is just so impressive and that's why I check it out.
On March 10 2011 13:00 Clare wrote: One thing I don't get is why are some people ONLY interested in watching the foreigners play? Even if the foreigners aren't as good as the Koreans, they will stop watching when they get knocked out. It makes no sense to me whatsoever... if the best players in the world are playing in the GSL, then I'll continue to watch.
It's the whiteness factor. Many white people want to watch white people win. People rarely admit it, but it's the truth. A lot of the Europeans have mangled English and boring interviews as well, but their whiteness makes them more interesting to many people than a superior Korean player.
Don't BS please, lots of foreigners are of asian descent. It's the fact that we know them from small tournaments that Koreans don't know about, streams, and forum posts, much like Korean fans know the lesser-known Koreans.
Cella is much more widely known than most Koreans of his skill level because he streams, Select isn't white but he's as well or more well known to foreigners than a lot of white players. Using the race card is just so wrong here.
Even in the coverage of GSL qualifiers, Incontrol gets a ton of screen time but Select, who is likely a much better foreigner player, gets almost nothing. Plus when you hear people talk about foreigners in GSL, they always forget guys like Sen and Loner. Why do you think that is?
It's a good point but keep in mind, you're only talking about the English speaking world (that uses TL). Go to a Chinese-speaking forum and there won't be any confusion about whether Sen is a foreigner.
GSL keeps getting better and better, last season Code A had some real embarrassingly low level play now you got "nobodies" coming out in full force playing like they could make a run at top4 of Code S. Only downside I have with GSL is the time that it's on, really messes with my sleep and I really dislike watching things that aren't live so if I miss a game I almost never go back to watch it unless it gets an insane amount of hype as a great game.
Outside of the GSL the level of play is a lot of the time is far from impressive to watch sometimes its even down right sad and it's like I'm seriously paying to watch this? I'll give NASL, MLG and TSL a shot, but my expectations aren't too high for them. I don't have the standard foreigner fanboi issues, I don't care who the player is outside of the booth I just want to see the game being played at the highest level possible.
On March 10 2011 13:00 Clare wrote: One thing I don't get is why are some people ONLY interested in watching the foreigners play? Even if the foreigners aren't as good as the Koreans, they will stop watching when they get knocked out. It makes no sense to me whatsoever... if the best players in the world are playing in the GSL, then I'll continue to watch.
It's the whiteness factor. Many white people want to watch white people win. People rarely admit it, but it's the truth. A lot of the Europeans have mangled English and boring interviews as well, but their whiteness makes them more interesting to many people than a superior Korean player.
Don't BS please, lots of foreigners are of asian descent. It's the fact that we know them from small tournaments that Koreans don't know about, streams, and forum posts, much like Korean fans know the lesser-known Koreans.
Cella is much more widely known than most Koreans of his skill level because he streams, Select isn't white but he's as well or more well known to foreigners than a lot of white players. Using the race card is just so wrong here.
Even in the coverage of GSL qualifiers, Incontrol gets a ton of screen time but Select, who is likely a much better foreigner player, gets almost nothing. Plus when you hear people talk about foreigners in GSL, they always forget guys like Sen and Loner. Why do you think that is?
It's a good point but keep in mind, you're only talking about the English speaking world (that uses TL). Go to a Chinese-speaking forum and there won't be any confusion about whether Sen is a foreigner.
I don't think the fact that people speak English on the forum reduces their capacity to identify who is or is not Korean in any way.
1) The new car smell has worn off, and like anything, its now taken for granted. 2) Lots of favourites were eliminated early this season. The remaining players (for the most part) were quite uninteresting, or the results of upcoming matches were fairly predictable. 3) Attention is being diverted by other big tournaments with other big names. Some of these events might occur in more convenient timeslots than the GSL, so the focus has shifted.
For me, GSL is still just as awesome, I dont miss a single game. Been buying premium tickets since day 1 and will continue to do so for as long as I have an active internet connection.
On March 10 2011 13:00 Clare wrote: One thing I don't get is why are some people ONLY interested in watching the foreigners play? Even if the foreigners aren't as good as the Koreans, they will stop watching when they get knocked out. It makes no sense to me whatsoever... if the best players in the world are playing in the GSL, then I'll continue to watch.
It's the whiteness factor. Many white people want to watch white people win. People rarely admit it, but it's the truth. A lot of the Europeans have mangled English and boring interviews as well, but their whiteness makes them more interesting to many people than a superior Korean player.
Don't BS please, lots of foreigners are of asian descent. It's the fact that we know them from small tournaments that Koreans don't know about, streams, and forum posts, much like Korean fans know the lesser-known Koreans.
Cella is much more widely known than most Koreans of his skill level because he streams, Select isn't white but he's as well or more well known to foreigners than a lot of white players. Using the race card is just so wrong here.
I'm not saying it's the only factor, but it's definitely a really big one that people aren't willing to admit. Select doesn't get half the attention that he should, everyone was shitting on his play despite making it to the MLG finals having to play more matches than anyone else at that tournament.
Even in the coverage of GSL qualifiers, Incontrol gets a ton of screen time but Select, who is likely a much better foreigner player, gets almost nothing. Plus when you hear people talk about foreigners in GSL, they always forget guys like Sen and Loner. Why do you think that is?
Sen just hasn't done much lately, he was really popular in December, and he doesn't speak English well at all.
completely lost interest in it after season 2. only matches i watch now are the foreigners and the finals.
don't know why. i like the games i watch, but i just don't feel like i have the time or money to watch everything.
i guess i just feel i'd rather spend the time practicing myself. i used to love watching pro matches, but now i feel that time not spent practicing myself is time wasted.
Skipped a lot of the Code A series even though I said I would watch everything at the start. I don't think I need to explain why that happened. Not amused with a few of the players that have made it into the Ro8 but still enjoying Code S.
Dao or w/e isn't cutting it and kelly was /meh. They need to keep artosis or tasteless in code A until they find a good established Code A caster. Just do it on a 3 person rotation.
On March 10 2011 13:00 Clare wrote: One thing I don't get is why are some people ONLY interested in watching the foreigners play? Even if the foreigners aren't as good as the Koreans, they will stop watching when they get knocked out. It makes no sense to me whatsoever... if the best players in the world are playing in the GSL, then I'll continue to watch.
It's the whiteness factor. Many white people want to watch white people win. People rarely admit it, but it's the truth. A lot of the Europeans have mangled English and boring interviews as well, but their whiteness makes them more interesting to many people than a superior Korean player.
Don't BS please, lots of foreigners are of asian descent. It's the fact that we know them from small tournaments that Koreans don't know about, streams, and forum posts, much like Korean fans know the lesser-known Koreans.
Cella is much more widely known than most Koreans of his skill level because he streams, Select isn't white but he's as well or more well known to foreigners than a lot of white players. Using the race card is just so wrong here.
I'm not saying it's the only factor, but it's definitely a really big one that people aren't willing to admit. Select doesn't get half the attention that he should, everyone was shitting on his play despite making it to the MLG finals having to play more matches than anyone else at that tournament.
Even in the coverage of GSL qualifiers, Incontrol gets a ton of screen time but Select, who is likely a much better foreigner player, gets almost nothing. Plus when you hear people talk about foreigners in GSL, they always forget guys like Sen and Loner. Why do you think that is?
Sen just hasn't done much lately, he was really popular in December, and he doesn't speak English well at all.
Look at the poll at the end and say TL views all Asians the same.
I didn't say TL views all Asians the same, but part of TL certainly doesn't seem to care as much about the Chinese foreigners. As for the poll, I believe that was still during the time between S2 and S3 when Idra couldn't stop talking about how bad Nestea was and how lucky he was to face MarineKingPrime who Idra also thought was bad. TL latching onto Idra's words and thinking Nestea was actually bad was not a surprise, despite Nestea having a 5-0 ZvZ record in GSL before facing Sen.
Top 8 I'll watch (unless it's houngun or mkp) but the rest I don't even bother unless I'm feeling down and need a new strat to try bashing newbies. A lot of the games are just so bad before round of 16. (not as bad as before code S, but still bad)
On March 10 2011 13:35 Count9 wrote: Top 8 I'll watch (unless it's houngun or mkp) but the rest I don't even bother unless I'm feeling down and need a new strat to try bashing newbies. A lot of the games are just so bad before round of 16. (not as bad as before code S, but still bad)
For me gsl is getting more fun as I am starting to really have a feel for all the players. I think the gap in skill level between koreans and foreigners just continues to widen as well so the differencei in the quality of the games is really noticeable when I try and watch non gsl.
It's because the foreigners are part of this community. You see them streaming and posting from time to time on the same website you do, so you've got a connection to them. I have 0 connection to someone like Byun.
Also, foreigners are special. When there 2 foreigners in the GSL, you root for them. In fact I was rooting for the Koreans during IEM, because they were special. It's not because of racism or anything.
Not really - this season you just don't see some of your favourite players going deep, just saddens me a little. On the other side, new players have a chance to come out big - look at sanZenith. All in all I'll get me the premium ticket for the next tourney as well since it is kinda cheap and it's totally legit to pay for things I enjoy.
On March 10 2011 13:35 Count9 wrote: Top 8 I'll watch (unless it's houngun or mkp) but the rest I don't even bother unless I'm feeling down and need a new strat to try bashing newbies. A lot of the games are just so bad before round of 16. (not as bad as before code S, but still bad)
MKP is a pretty great Terran and deserves to be in Code S. People are always bitching about how players don't have style, but MKP certainly does. He has a unique style that nobody else plays, he's hyper aggressive, and he's been pretty successful. You'd think that would make him into a fan favourite, but yet everyone shits on his play.
He lost to MVP and everyone was ridiculously happy to see him go down, but beating tons of great players only to lose to the best in the world in no way makes MKP bad.
I don't think people understand MKP's record. His only GSL Bo3/5/7 losses are to:
MVP MC Nestea
Who are probably the best players in the world of their respective races.
MKP is a fucking beast and TL hates him because Idra and Incontrol senselessly hate him on State of the Game.
Quite the opposite. Back in season 1 and 2 I used to find it quite boring, all the games would be all ins or just pretty boring games in general. My interest went to a low point around midway through season 4. Then the gstl happened, I decided to watch the finals for the heck of it and was blown away, interest is back up.
But in general I kinda look forward to western events like the MLG. I liked all the MLGs that happened last year. Maybe because I know the players and teams better, like tl,eg and fnatic, or maybe because the players here dont really do all-ins that much so that leads to macro games more often than not.
I watched most big us and europe tournaments so far and I have to say, they are not even close to gsl in terms of fun and quality.The only exception was the reddit invitational tournament. That was awesome. I can only imagine that gsl will get better because the bad players get thrown out and the strategies on the new maps get more refined. On the other hand most european top players seem to stagnate. For example whitera's pvz at IEM is still the same after 3-4 month.
gsl still has the best players. and with the world thing it could get more interesting. i really dont think foreigners will ever be able to top gsl even nasl probably wont top it.
No interest lost for me. For the first time we are finally seeing some Protoss players doing well, and some better representation in the top 4 than almost all T's. Plus, my mancrush oGsMC is decimating everyone and making a strong case for the first repeat champion.
And how can anyone deny the powerhouse than is MANzenith?
My only loss of interest is with Code A. The games are far better but the casters can't touch Tastosis and my favourite players Squirtle and Ace dropped out in the first round. Guess it was worth it to let them dominate IEM, but still.
On March 10 2011 13:35 Count9 wrote: Top 8 I'll watch (unless it's houngun or mkp) but the rest I don't even bother unless I'm feeling down and need a new strat to try bashing newbies. A lot of the games are just so bad before round of 16. (not as bad as before code S, but still bad)
Why won't you watch mkp?
I don't think his style is fun or exciting to watch and I don't feel like I learn anything from him when I watch him. His builds feel like a good builds for him rather than good builds period, and until I become him, I can't really use them effectively so I just don't learn anything. (until I get another 100 apm and more multitasking)
On March 10 2011 13:41 Zzoram wrote: MKP is a pretty great Terran and deserves to be in Code S. People are always bitching about how players don't have style, but MKP certainly does. He has a unique style that nobody else plays, he's hyper aggressive, and he's been pretty successful. You'd think that would make him into a fan favourite, but yet everyone shits on his play.
He lost to MVP and everyone was ridiculously happy to see him go down, but beating tons of great players only to lose to the best in the world in no way makes MKP bad.
I don't think people understand MKP's record. His only GSL Bo3/5/7 losses are to:
MVP MC Nestea
Who are probably the best players in the world of their respective races.
MKP is a fucking beast and TL hates him because Idra and Incontrol senselessly hate him on State of the Game.
I won't try to deny that MKP is good, but it's a bit annoying how conveniently cherrypicked your record of MKP is. He lost to Alive in the GSTL and to sC and IncA in Ro32 this season.
On March 10 2011 13:00 Clare wrote: One thing I don't get is why are some people ONLY interested in watching the foreigners play? Even if the foreigners aren't as good as the Koreans, they will stop watching when they get knocked out. It makes no sense to me whatsoever... if the best players in the world are playing in the GSL, then I'll continue to watch.
It's the whiteness factor. Many white people want to watch white people win. People rarely admit it, but it's the truth. A lot of the Europeans have mangled English and boring interviews as well, but their whiteness makes them more interesting to many people than a superior Korean player.
Don't BS please, lots of foreigners are of asian descent. It's the fact that we know them from small tournaments that Koreans don't know about, streams, and forum posts, much like Korean fans know the lesser-known Koreans.
Cella is much more widely known than most Koreans of his skill level because he streams, Select isn't white but he's as well or more well known to foreigners than a lot of white players. Using the race card is just so wrong here.
Even in the coverage of GSL qualifiers, Incontrol gets a ton of screen time but Select, who is likely a much better foreigner player, gets almost nothing. Plus when you hear people talk about foreigners in GSL, they always forget guys like Sen and Loner. Why do you think that is?
It's a good point but keep in mind, you're only talking about the English speaking world (that uses TL). Go to a Chinese-speaking forum and there won't be any confusion about whether Sen is a foreigner.
I don't think the fact that people speak English on the forum reduces their capacity to identify who is or is not Korean in any way.
But he's right -- when people talk about the foreign players Sen and Loner rarely come up. Look at the Foreigner Specials on this forum. The Asian foreigners don't get mentioned, for example.
No, I still am most interested in the GSL- but I've never had any money for premium tickets. However, I can't physically keep staying up til 4am in the morning and then go to work the next day, so I don't keep up as much anymore.
On March 10 2011 13:00 Clare wrote: One thing I don't get is why are some people ONLY interested in watching the foreigners play? Even if the foreigners aren't as good as the Koreans, they will stop watching when they get knocked out. It makes no sense to me whatsoever... if the best players in the world are playing in the GSL, then I'll continue to watch.
It's the whiteness factor. Many white people want to watch white people win. People rarely admit it, but it's the truth. A lot of the Europeans have mangled English and boring interviews as well, but their whiteness makes them more interesting to many people than a superior Korean player.
Don't BS please, lots of foreigners are of asian descent. It's the fact that we know them from small tournaments that Koreans don't know about, streams, and forum posts, much like Korean fans know the lesser-known Koreans.
Cella is much more widely known than most Koreans of his skill level because he streams, Select isn't white but he's as well or more well known to foreigners than a lot of white players. Using the race card is just so wrong here.
Even in the coverage of GSL qualifiers, Incontrol gets a ton of screen time but Select, who is likely a much better foreigner player, gets almost nothing. Plus when you hear people talk about foreigners in GSL, they always forget guys like Sen and Loner. Why do you think that is?
It's a good point but keep in mind, you're only talking about the English speaking world (that uses TL). Go to a Chinese-speaking forum and there won't be any confusion about whether Sen is a foreigner.
I don't think the fact that people speak English on the forum reduces their capacity to identify who is or is not Korean in any way.
But he's right -- when people talk about the foreign players Sen and Loner rarely come up. Look at the Foreigner Specials on this forum. The Asian foreigners don't get mentioned, for example.
I'm confused. I agree with everything you said there. I was merely taking issue with how you seemed to be saying that the fact that these forums are English forums gives some sort of "excuse" for not recognizing non-Korean asians as foreigners.
When Tiger Woods was playing in a tournament, twice as many people would watch it. When there's no foreigners in the tournament I tend to lose interest. I enjoy the style of the tournament with a few matches each night for a month, so I will probably continue buying a ticket (especially with the $10 price).
On March 10 2011 13:41 Zzoram wrote: MKP is a pretty great Terran and deserves to be in Code S. People are always bitching about how players don't have style, but MKP certainly does. He has a unique style that nobody else plays, he's hyper aggressive, and he's been pretty successful. You'd think that would make him into a fan favourite, but yet everyone shits on his play.
He lost to MVP and everyone was ridiculously happy to see him go down, but beating tons of great players only to lose to the best in the world in no way makes MKP bad.
I don't think people understand MKP's record. His only GSL Bo3/5/7 losses are to:
MVP MC Nestea
Who are probably the best players in the world of their respective races.
MKP is a fucking beast and TL hates him because Idra and Incontrol senselessly hate him on State of the Game.
I won't try to deny that MKP is good, but it's a bit annoying how conveniently cherrypicked your record of MKP is. He lost to Alive in the GSTL and to sC and IncA in Ro32 this season.
In single matches.
Ask any foreign pro if a Bo3/5/7 is a better way to compare two players than a single game. They'll all tell you the same thing, a series carries much more weight comparing skill between two players.
On March 10 2011 13:53 TurtlePerson2 wrote: When Tiger Woods was playing in a tournament, twice as many people would watch it. When there's no foreigners in the tournament I tend to lose interest. I enjoy the style of the tournament with a few matches each night for a month, so I will probably continue buying a ticket (especially with the $10 price).
The difference is that Tiger Woods was the best in the world for years, sitting at the top of the world rankings and winning tons of major tournaments against the next best in the world.
None of the foreigners are anywhere near that level of prestige.
On March 10 2011 13:35 Count9 wrote: Top 8 I'll watch (unless it's houngun or mkp) but the rest I don't even bother unless I'm feeling down and need a new strat to try bashing newbies. A lot of the games are just so bad before round of 16. (not as bad as before code S, but still bad)
Why won't you watch mkp?
I don't think his style is fun or exciting to watch and I don't feel like I learn anything from him when I watch him. His builds feel like a good builds for him rather than good builds period, and until I become him, I can't really use them effectively so I just don't learn anything. (until I get another 100 apm and more multitasking)
That's actually the thrill I get when I watch a player like MKP. For me at least I find it boring when a player does a build that even a common player like me can do effectively (cool you can 4 gate? so can i). Nothing excites me more than watching him do a 6 way marine split within seconds to dodge speed banelings. Yea common people like us can't do it, but that's what makes it special.
It's kinda like watching jaedong's muta micro. Can we do it? Hell no. But it sure is hell entertaining to watch him do it.
I will be watching the recommended vods but really need to split my time more effectively. no more BanBans and bitbybits for me. Also no more mc vs hongun style games either (note; not necessarily no PvPs, just no more of what happened in that series - very boring to watch)
On March 10 2011 11:53 Canucklehead wrote: Just the opposite. It increases with each season cause I want to watch the best. I will only watch select nasl games as I already spend hours watching gsl, so don't have time to watch nasl as well. Some people like the MLS, while others prefer to watch the european soccer leagues. To each their own, but I will be sticking with the best.
lol what??? i don't see how you could be losing interest without losing interest in starcraft 2 in general. sure there's people who watch only for foreigners, so if you care less with idra gone, that's understandable, but on the flipside there are more foreigners placing higher than there were in the beginning, and there are very few god awful terrible players left in either code A or code S. overall i think unless you only care about foreigners, i can't rationalize being less interested without getting bored of starcraft 2 entirely.
my problem with GSL has always been how there manages to be this one guy who sucks but gets super deep in the tournament, and that's just not happening anymore. the guys who suck suck less, and they get crushed like they should be. this is the season i bought my first ticket because i finally felt like it was a tournament that i could enjoy the whole way through, whereas i only enjoyed the end of the tournament in previous seasons.
i am personally not that excited for NASL, i mean i'm hyped for it but i'm always skeptical of promises and hype machines until things actually fall into place. i am SUPER hyped for TSL, mainly because it reminds me of a SC2 WCG except with non-koreans having more of a chance, and i love MLG and have been a fan of it since before i got into RTS. everything is of lower interest to me than GSL though, i would only pay to watch GSL at this point.
Well i can't really see how NASL is going to be better than GSL. NASL will not be live and its production will not be as good. The players are not as good, nor are the casters.
The only thing that the NASL trumps GSL with is its prize pool.
That said i will still watch both but i don't think that NASL makes me less interested
On March 10 2011 14:03 KMARTRULES wrote: Well i can't really see how NASL is going to be better than GSL. NASL will not be live and its production will not be as good. The players are not as good, nor are the casters.
The only thing that the NASL trumps GSL with is its prize pool.
That said i will still watch both but i don't think that NASL makes me less interested
Incontrol is a funny guy on a podcast, but he's really no match for Artosis as a caster.
I'll still watch NASL games with names I care about, same with TSL3/MLG, but I'm not going to stop watching GSL.
The quality of competitors in Code S and even in Code A is steadily increasing; the games are getting more exciting and the map pool is becoming insanely awesome.. GSL attracts the best players in the world; and now that the regular season has commenced, the elite will surface at the top..
More alternatives on the scene - NASL, MLG etc doesn't mean interests have to be lowered, just split between more options.. GSL was the first epic tournament in terms of players and prizes so it will always remain my top priority
No, I still like watching GSL. If a new TV show comes out do you lose interest in watching your old TV show? No, you PVR one of them if you wanna watch both.
Opening these threads are stupid. While you're at it, why don't you put a poll on whether or not the new season of Jersey Shore is making you lose interest in GSL, since its airing soon and all.
Here: I did one for you.
Poll: Does the new show Being Human draw you away from GSL?
No, I'll still watch GSL b/c obviously having new shows doesn't mean I can't watch other shows. (4)
67%
Yes, I'm mentally incapable to process two different shows, even if aired separately. (2)
33%
6 total votes
Your vote: Does the new show Being Human draw you away from GSL?
(Vote): No, I'll still watch GSL b/c obviously having new shows doesn't mean I can't watch other shows. (Vote): Yes, I'm mentally incapable to process two different shows, even if aired separately.
No. After being hyped up for IEM and then being 100% completely letdown, still-haven't-seen-the-shitty-games-i-don't-care-about-any more-from-shitty-europeans-and-ace because of how shittily the VODs were handled (and even live), I realize GSL is still the best and all other tournies sound good when they have a shiny TL post but in reality are amateur as fuck.
On March 10 2011 13:00 Clare wrote: One thing I don't get is why are some people ONLY interested in watching the foreigners play? Even if the foreigners aren't as good as the Koreans, they will stop watching when they get knocked out. It makes no sense to me whatsoever... if the best players in the world are playing in the GSL, then I'll continue to watch.
It's the whiteness factor. Many white people want to watch white people win. People rarely admit it, but it's the truth. A lot of the Europeans have mangled English and boring interviews as well, but their whiteness makes them more interesting to many people than a superior Korean player.
Don't BS please, lots of foreigners are of asian descent. It's the fact that we know them from small tournaments that Koreans don't know about, streams, and forum posts, much like Korean fans know the lesser-known Koreans.
Cella is much more widely known than most Koreans of his skill level because he streams, Select isn't white but he's as well or more well known to foreigners than a lot of white players. Using the race card is just so wrong here.
Even in the coverage of GSL qualifiers, Incontrol gets a ton of screen time but Select, who is likely a much better foreigner player, gets almost nothing. Plus when you hear people talk about foreigners in GSL, they always forget guys like Sen and Loner. Why do you think that is?
It's a good point but keep in mind, you're only talking about the English speaking world (that uses TL). Go to a Chinese-speaking forum and there won't be any confusion about whether Sen is a foreigner.
I don't think the fact that people speak English on the forum reduces their capacity to identify who is or is not Korean in any way.
But he's right -- when people talk about the foreign players Sen and Loner rarely come up. Look at the Foreigner Specials on this forum. The Asian foreigners don't get mentioned, for example.
I'm confused. I agree with everything you said there. I was merely taking issue with how you seemed to be saying that the fact that these forums are English forums gives some sort of "excuse" for not recognizing non-Korean asians as foreigners.
I'm probably just not communicating well. The only point I was trying to make was that while on this forum it might seem that Asian foreigners are ignored, to a lot of Chinese fans Loner feels like a 'foreign' player. So it's a bit narrow to say that Loner gets missed as a foreigner because he gets missed here -- not that we should be proud of that fact to the extent that it's true.
I'm as excited as ever when it comes to Code-S, I've been thoroughly enjoying almost every single match. Just take the most recent RO8 battle - Nada vs JulyZerg.. freaking NUTS!
Code-A... is another story. To be 100% honest, I would still enjoy Code-A quite a bit with Tasteless or Artosis casting with Kelly. Now that it's Kelly + Doa, I haven't been as enthralled. Hopefully this will change though.
On March 10 2011 14:11 HunterStarcraft wrote: I'm as excited as ever when it comes to Code-S, I've been thoroughly enjoying almost every single match. Just take the most recent RO8 battle - Nada vs JulyZerg.. freaking NUTS!
Code-A... is another story. To be 100% honest, I would still enjoy Code-A quite a bit with Tasteless or Artosis casting with Kelly. Now that it's Kelly + Doa, I haven't been as enthralled. Hopefully this will change though.
See, a lot of people thought those games were fun to watch. Then Idra says they suck and their games suck and TL doesn't know what to think anymore.
On March 10 2011 13:00 Clare wrote: One thing I don't get is why are some people ONLY interested in watching the foreigners play? Even if the foreigners aren't as good as the Koreans, they will stop watching when they get knocked out. It makes no sense to me whatsoever... if the best players in the world are playing in the GSL, then I'll continue to watch.
It's the whiteness factor. Many white people want to watch white people win. People rarely admit it, but it's the truth. A lot of the Europeans have mangled English and boring interviews as well, but their whiteness makes them more interesting to many people than a superior Korean player.
Don't BS please, lots of foreigners are of asian descent. It's the fact that we know them from small tournaments that Koreans don't know about, streams, and forum posts, much like Korean fans know the lesser-known Koreans.
Cella is much more widely known than most Koreans of his skill level because he streams, Select isn't white but he's as well or more well known to foreigners than a lot of white players. Using the race card is just so wrong here.
Even in the coverage of GSL qualifiers, Incontrol gets a ton of screen time but Select, who is likely a much better foreigner player, gets almost nothing. Plus when you hear people talk about foreigners in GSL, they always forget guys like Sen and Loner. Why do you think that is?
It's a good point but keep in mind, you're only talking about the English speaking world (that uses TL). Go to a Chinese-speaking forum and there won't be any confusion about whether Sen is a foreigner.
I don't think the fact that people speak English on the forum reduces their capacity to identify who is or is not Korean in any way.
But he's right -- when people talk about the foreign players Sen and Loner rarely come up. Look at the Foreigner Specials on this forum. The Asian foreigners don't get mentioned, for example.
I'm confused. I agree with everything you said there. I was merely taking issue with how you seemed to be saying that the fact that these forums are English forums gives some sort of "excuse" for not recognizing non-Korean asians as foreigners.
I'm probably just not communicating well. The only point I was trying to make was that while on this forum it might seem that Asian foreigners are ignored, to a lot of Chinese fans Loner feels like a 'foreign' player. So it's a bit narrow to say that Loner gets missed as a foreigner because he gets missed here -- not that we should be proud of that fact to the extent that it's true.
I don't play SC2 but I love watching the best of the best play this game. The GSL is also the only place I can watch Artosis and Tasteless cast so no, GSL is still my top priority.
I'm much more attached to the foreign scene than the Korean scene, so now that TLO, IdrA, Ret, etc are gone my interest is waning. Also, with the MLG season nearing, IEM games happening, and the NASL and TSL3 to look forward too, there's just a lot more going on outside of Korean atm.
With Idra dropping out of the GSL my interest level was probably cut in half but i still like to watch the terrans play and that is really just to help my own play. For entertainment I would rather watch MLG or even incontrol's stream over GSL. The reason I was rooting hard for Idra is because he worked really hard for a long time and just wanted it to pay off in a really big way so that was what made it exciting for me. Starcraft 2 is always enjoyable to watch and artosis and tasteless are funny dudes so definitely a great show but I just have no attachment to the players i guess and that is what makes it exciting for me.
I never subscribed to GSL in the first place but yes my interest in the GSL has dropped along with my interest in Starcraft. On the other hand I'm extremely excited for the NASL because the stream will be a lot closer to my time zone than Korea.
On March 10 2011 12:56 Louuster wrote: Tushin is back on top, so GSL is my priority for now. However, that might change once TSL starts, depending on how well the foreigners do against the koreans. If it becomes BW WCG, then it reduces to another chance to watch the top korean pros play, which is never bad but at the same time not as interesting from a competitive point of view.
The best players winning is never a bad thing from a competitive point of view.
I wonder what will happen in Koreans dominate MLG/TSL/NASL. Will they get banned?
Of course they'll get banned. Then the organizers will talk about how this is a event for foreigners and that koreans have many events that they can play in already (ignoring the fact that foreigners can go to Korea and play in korean leagues). Just think TSL2.
The poll options are really non-representative...but I'm still very excited for GSL (this season was a bit of a let down), but if the highest level players remain in GSL (+ you get Tastosis), it's still the premier tournament.
does anyone think idra is still a top zerg anymore? Hi, I won a beta tournament and a single MLG. Yet I can't actually beat any top pros. Clearly this gives me the right to bitch about imbalance because I am so knowledgeable. There is only one way to play zerg which is hatch first and terran can easily beat hatch first so they are clearly overpowered.
On March 10 2011 11:58 Grobyc wrote: Needs a "Yes, but never had a premium ticket in the first place" poll option.
eh if you never had a premium ticket in the first place your opinion inn the poll doesnt really mean much imo this is for people who liked the gsl in the first place
I did like GSL in the first place and was just as excited as anyone else, but I was fine with the free LQ stream (didn't really have spare cash for HQ regardless), and just paid less and less attention with every passing week.
On March 10 2011 14:44 bigbeau wrote: does anyone think idra is still a top zerg anymore? Hi, I won a beta tournament and a single MLG. Yet I can't actually beat any top pros. Clearly this gives me the right to bitch about imbalance because I am so knowledgeable. There is only one way to play zerg which is hatch first and terran can easily beat hatch first so they are clearly overpowered.
Idra has fallen off quite a lot since the first GSL, not because he's worse, but because other people got better. He still speaks like he's the top dog though.
On March 10 2011 14:44 bigbeau wrote: does anyone think idra is still a top zerg anymore? Hi, I won a beta tournament and a single MLG. Yet I can't actually beat any top pros. Clearly this gives me the right to bitch about imbalance because I am so knowledgeable. There is only one way to play zerg which is hatch first and terran can easily beat hatch first so they are clearly overpowered.
Idra has fallen off quite a lot since the first GSL, not because he's worse, but because other people got better. He still speaks like he's the top dog though.
thats my point. he laddered so hard before everyone else did so he was good when everyone else was still learning. now theyve laddered as much as he had and now theyre far better than him. and yet he thinks he is the authority on zerg when really hes just the authority on awkward missed high fives
On March 10 2011 14:44 bigbeau wrote: does anyone think idra is still a top zerg anymore? Hi, I won a beta tournament and a single MLG. Yet I can't actually beat any top pros. Clearly this gives me the right to bitch about imbalance because I am so knowledgeable. There is only one way to play zerg which is hatch first and terran can easily beat hatch first so they are clearly overpowered.
Only one way to play? huh?
I think he's really, really good, I just wish he wouldn't tap out of matches so damn fast when things don't go his way. We've seen play in both code A and code S this season where player X was dominating and threw it away with a mistake allowing player Y to win. Heck, it happened in every single HuK and July match in the last few weeks. Idra talks such a big game, says his opponents suck, but then gives those same opponents WAY too much credit and doesn't think he can get them to panic or make a mistake, so he taps out with near-even food when a push fails or something else dumb occurs.
I say float your CCs to the corners, drop a random infestation pit, place a hidden pylon, etc. and keep HWAITING to the last supply!
Wheres the "it's still increasing" option? NASL is just increasing the hype I have over watching pro SC2.
Code A isn't really offering the highest quality of games - mostly what I watch for in code A is looking out for improvement / rising stars. Will likely be the same in NASL - watching out for who's really starting to blow up and become freaking awesome.
On March 10 2011 14:44 bigbeau wrote: does anyone think idra is still a top zerg anymore? Hi, I won a beta tournament and a single MLG. Yet I can't actually beat any top pros. Clearly this gives me the right to bitch about imbalance because I am so knowledgeable. There is only one way to play zerg which is hatch first and terran can easily beat hatch first so they are clearly overpowered.
Yes, he still is a top zerg. He's a very consistent player and his results in the GSL have shown this. Rather than completely dismiss his criticisms of the game as "bitching," you should try to address the points he makes so that you don't come off as being a complete jackass.
Also, why are you bringing this up in a thread about GSL?
I love the pressure they are now playing under. They have to be aggressive and at the same time do it flawlessly or in a split second they might look like newbs :D
On March 10 2011 11:58 Zzoram wrote: I want to watch whomever the best players are. GSL is undoubtedly the toughest tournament with the best players. As much as foreigners keep getting hyped, they can't perform against even mediocre GSL players, with the exception of Jinro.
Guys like Ace and Moon, often criticized as terrible by foreigners, just steam rolled through IEM despite tons of the best foreigners being there. GSL is where it's at.
+1
This is what I love about recent comments regarding GSL games. People fail to understand that the way they playing and pushing each other, there is not much space for "ohh he should've done this or that". I think general "top" not pro players are already hills behind whoever is playing in Korea, and that lead will only increase unless they train with them daily like foreigners in Korea do.
My interest is pretty much lost for code A unless the report thread has a lot of votes of recommendation for the games. Code S doesn't really seem too interesting until the top 8, a good amount of the ro32 and even some ro16 games were disappointing this season compared to the past. But I still like the format of a month long tournament compared to the weekend long ones like MLG since I can get all of the coverage that I want spread over that entire month, but that's just me
To be honest, I find myself losing interest lately in any tournament that doesn't have Koreans in it. I'm much more likely to watch GSL or something like the FX Open which has both foreigners and Koreans playing.
GSL has the best players, and it's on at a good time for me. The NASL is gonna be at like 4am KST, so I won't be able to watch it. I will follow it, but only to check the results...I don't see myself actually watching many of the games, at least not in the group stages.
I must agree with FuRong. I just prefer tournaments with Koreans. This is just my opinion but, no matter what anyone says, I think Koreans are still a level higher than most of the foreigners. NASL and TSL are going to be awesome so, these 3 tourneys will be my top priority!
I voted for #2. Yes, I won't be buying any more premium tickets; however, I never bought premium tickets. I always stayed up late to watch them live. Because of this, I put more dedication into watching these games and so now that NA upcoming tournaments like MLG and NASL are upcoming has caused my attention towards GSL to not be what it used to be.
There are many reasons my highest interest remains the GSL.
1) Amount of content. They literally put on the biggest, best SC2 tournament every month. It's on six days a week and there are so many games to watch.
2) Professional presentation. Live games with the players right there so we can see their reactions, taunts, etc. Obviously the overall quality of the music, transitions, pregame buildup, etc. is quite high.
3) Tastetosis. What can I say about this duo that hasn't been said before? There simply could not be another combination of casters that top these two.
4) The storylines. We've had quite a bit of time to see storylines emerge which adds so much drama to the game. Just to name a few: SanZenith's rise to Code S standards, Jinro 2-0'ing MC after MC 4-0'd him the previous season, JulyZerg's struggle to find his niche, etc. This combined with the normal drama of "can this guy beat (Nestea/MVP/etc)?" makes for such exciting matches.
5) These guys still *are* the best players in the world. The Western scene is robust and growing, but Korean pros still dominate in terms of sheer skill.
6) Easy access. It can get difficult to track all the little, short tournaments going on in the West. The GSL makes accessing their content easy and being broadcast at the same time six nights a week makes it that much easier.
7) Code A is bursting with potential. I'm really interested in the up-and-coming Code A players. So many storylines can be created this way and I'm really excited to see it happen.
Basically, the GSL just offers such a large quantity of quality content that no one can come close to matching just yet. We'll see how the NASL pans out, though, as that's the only thing on the horizon that I can see even coming close to touching a big production like the GSL.
no GSL is as exciting as ever, especially with the upcoming up/down matches. Also a wc3 legend could possibly go to the round of 4 to face MC who is looking like he could take a second GSL.
On March 10 2011 15:05 FuRong wrote: To be honest, I find myself losing interest lately in any tournament that doesn't have Koreans in it. I'm much more likely to watch GSL or something like the FX Open which has both foreigners and Koreans playing.
GSL has the best players, and it's on at a good time for me. The NASL is gonna be at like 4am KST, so I won't be able to watch it. I will follow it, but only to check the results...I don't see myself actually watching many of the games, at least not in the group stages.
lol your world is so backwards. 4am is exactly what time GSL comes on for me, however i still prefer it. Most the time i end up watching vods. Unless it's going to be an Epic day.
I don't mean any disrespect by the backwards comment, im just envious of your time zone relative to GSL.
I'm not an expert -- just a fan -- so I have to base that off our tournament results.
It will be interesting to see how the Koreans perform in the TSL. If they continue to dominate, I'll probably still subscribe to the GSL.
But I'm definitely excited about the NASL, just because of my familiarity of the players. The only knock against the GSL is that it's harder to learn more about the players themselves.
If GSL games continue to be the highest level, I'll watch GSL. If NASL in particular manages to match the game quality, I'll probably drop the GSL entirely. (almost) Might watch the most epic of the epic, but otherwise all NASL.
I'm going to stop watching Code A (A decision made easier due to the lack of Tasteless and Artosis) and replace it with MLG/NASL but Code S GSL is going to be the number one tournament in the world for the foreseeable future and everybody knows it.
My interest in GSL is dropping, and I never had interest in other tourneys either.
It's mostly the dwindling amount of Tasteless/Artosis.
Kelly's accent is really quite horrible. She pronounces everything incredibly stupidly. That other guy (whose name I don't even know) is alright but it sounds like everything is forced, like he just says things because other casters do.
Honestly, I don't think the NASL will be a credible league like the GSL unless they allow any Korean to participate through a fair qualification process. If they don't, they''re basically creating a tournament that is outwardly not allowing the best to participate, which means winning it doesn't mean anything in terms of comparative skill.
If they do however allow any and all Koreans to participate, I'll stop watching GSL entirely.
In the end, despite my posts earlier in the thread regarding my love for GSL, I think that this doesn't need to be a competition. If NASL does well, it will also increase the popularity of esport in the western world which no doubt will increase the sponsorship for Korean esport since it is a globalized capitalistic world. I hope there won't be a direct competition between the fans so that both leagues can grow.
I'd say I'm more interested than ever in GSL. The level of play in both code A and code S has been higher than it's ever been, probably a lot due to the new maps (GSTL was awesome too after a sloiw start).
Btw, I think what people need to realize is that NASL is designed to give competition to foreigners, specifically Americans, so that they grow in skill to match or out-match Koreans.
The only reason Korean pros are more skilled on average is because their culture currently supports e-sports a lot more than America's. The NASL is an effort to get Americans more interested in, and actively competitive in SC2.
Edit: To continue: If Koreans dominated NASL like they do GSL, then Americans and Europeans would never get the same motivation to compete as they would if they were given a chance to win for a while.
My interest has actually been the highest its been for a while. The games between NaDa and July were amazing and I can't wait to see July win the whole thing.
On March 10 2011 15:24 Buddhist wrote: My interest in GSL is dropping, and I never had interest in other tourneys either.
It's mostly the dwindling amount of Tasteless/Artosis.
Kelly's accent is really quite horrible. She pronounces everything incredibly stupidly. That other guy (whose name I don't even know) is alright but it sounds like everything is forced, like he just says things because other casters do.
(ノ`٥´)ノ what is this shit? (ノ`٥´)ノ
now you know how your American accent sounds to the rest of the world
On March 10 2011 15:29 mardi wrote: My interest has actually been the highest its been for a while. The games between NaDa and July were amazing and I can't wait to see July win the whole thing.
This. One of the most epic Bo5's I've ever seen on GSL.
If NASL was open to the public, that, by far, would hold my prioritized interest. But, it isn't, so I will stick with the GSL for now. I only wish the format would change for GSL. I do not see how Code S/Code A is more beneficial than giant open tourneys.
On March 10 2011 15:24 Buddhist wrote: My interest in GSL is dropping, and I never had interest in other tourneys either.
It's mostly the dwindling amount of Tasteless/Artosis.
Kelly's accent is really quite horrible. She pronounces everything incredibly stupidly. That other guy (whose name I don't even know) is alright but it sounds like everything is forced, like he just says things because other casters do.
(ノ`٥´)ノ what is this shit? (ノ`٥´)ノ
now you know how your American accent sounds to the rest of the world
Er, no.
Every native English speaker pronounces the "i" in "stim" the same way. It's not steam, it's stim.
Americans and Canadians pronounce almost everything the EXACT same way, too, and UK/Australian accents sound quite nice.
I wouldn't even be bothered by almost any of her accent, I find it far less a problem than most people, but what REALLY annoys me is her seeming laziness. It's not hard to just NOT pronounce "stim" wrong, like seriously. Stim, not steam.
I know they have the "ih" sound in asia.
edit: Also everything she says has the infliction of a question on it, and she leaves off the s from words.
He forget to siege his tank? He need to steam his marine?
On March 10 2011 15:32 Rkie wrote: If NASL was open to the public, that, by far, would hold my prioritized interest. But, it isn't, so I will stick with the GSL for now. I only wish the format would change for GSL. I do not see how Code S/Code A is more beneficial than giant open tourneys.
The lack of double elimination is pretty dumb too.
If I ran a tourney, I'd prioritize player skill over everything else, and that means >bo1, and >single elimination ALWAYS.
But I guess current tourney organizers don't agree in putting emphasis on player skill.
I haven't watched code A this season, but I try to watch as much code S as possible. I don't think I've watched as much as I did in the first few seasons.
Tough question to answer. I would say my interest in the tournament itself has lowered. I rarely put it on to watch players I have no 'investment' in. Although I wont miss out on the games which interest me the most. This is for Code S and Code A
On March 10 2011 15:24 Buddhist wrote: My interest in GSL is dropping, and I never had interest in other tourneys either.
It's mostly the dwindling amount of Tasteless/Artosis.
Kelly's accent is really quite horrible. She pronounces everything incredibly stupidly. That other guy (whose name I don't even know) is alright but it sounds like everything is forced, like he just says things because other casters do.
(ノ`٥´)ノ what is this shit? (ノ`٥´)ノ
now you know how your American accent sounds to the rest of the world
The US' only official language is English. On the other hand in Singapore while other languages are officially recognized, English is also on that list.
On March 10 2011 14:44 bigbeau wrote: does anyone think idra is still a top zerg anymore? Hi, I won a beta tournament and a single MLG. Yet I can't actually beat any top pros. Clearly this gives me the right to bitch about imbalance because I am so knowledgeable. There is only one way to play zerg which is hatch first and terran can easily beat hatch first so they are clearly overpowered.
Idra has fallen off quite a lot since the first GSL, not because he's worse, but because other people got better. He still speaks like he's the top dog though.
Last time I checked he has improved his standing pretty much in every GSL since the first one:S
I watch GSL less and less as the season goes on because I tend to only watch a few players play and if they get eliminated then theres less people to watch.
I still watch it everyday, but the problem is that their "Premium ticket" service seems to be throttling bandwidth to Singapore. Everyone seems to be enjoying a seamless HQ stream whereas I suffer a lag-ridden stream. Furthermore, the VoDs take forever to load; I remember an 8 minute match which took about 1 hour to load. Due to those reasons, I've decided to stop getting the Premium service.
I'm still interested in GSL, I'll still pay for the premium ticket (for now) but depending on the NASL quality / production values, I might change to watching that only.
Scarcity brings interest, if there's one thing I don't like about GSL is the sheer amount of games we're bombarded with. So I'm very interested in TSL, for example, but if NASL churns out as many games as GSL, then I'm likely to prefer GSL games over NASL's simply because I expect their quality to be higher. 'Course this is just initial impressions, I can't really make a judgment until I've watched those.
On March 10 2011 15:24 Buddhist wrote: My interest in GSL is dropping, and I never had interest in other tourneys either.
It's mostly the dwindling amount of Tasteless/Artosis.
Kelly's accent is really quite horrible. She pronounces everything incredibly stupidly. That other guy (whose name I don't even know) is alright but it sounds like everything is forced, like he just says things because other casters do.
(ノ`٥´)ノ what is this shit? (ノ`٥´)ノ
now you know how your American accent sounds to the rest of the world
Er, no.
Every native English speaker pronounces the "i" in "stim" the same way. It's not steam, it's stim.
Americans and Canadians pronounce almost everything the EXACT same way, too, and UK/Australian accents sound quite nice.
I wouldn't even be bothered by almost any of her accent, I find it far less a problem than most people, but what REALLY annoys me is her seeming laziness. It's not hard to just NOT pronounce "stim" wrong, like seriously. Stim, not steam.
I know they have the "ih" sound in asia.
edit: Also everything she says has the infliction of a question on it, and she leaves off the s from words.
He forget to siege his tank? He need to steam his marine?
are you fucking kidding me english is a) impossibly hard as a second language, it's a miracle she can speak it as well as she does b) she's very understandable. if you were learning japanese/casting in japanese, some obvious inflections to them would be incredibly subtle to you. she's obviously been working on her accent because it's improve a ton, but you can't expect her to pronounce everything 100% properly in a language that is BASED on exceptions and not rules to pronunciation/spelling. i noticed the stim/steam thing too but it's not laziness, i'm sure she's put in a ton of fucking work.
and yes i hated her at first but now i think she's decent. it's just ANY casting combo that lacks artosis fucking sucks because you get no analysis on a pro level, but you guys seem to not mention that and just focus on her accent. the problem is way more the lack of artosis, be real.
I also thought that with the new big "foreign" tournaments, GSL will loose ground. However, I still have to witness a tournament that comes close to GSL's quality. IEM looked like a school-play in comparison to GSL. I have the distinct feeling that the non-Korean world doesn't take e-sports as seriously as the Koreans do and until this changes, GSL will remain the number 1 for me.
P.S. I'm not talking about the quality of the games or the players (although these are also in favor of the GSL) but rather of the overall quality of the tournament: stream, casters, organization, ability to follow a schedule, booths, etc.
I am only interested in the games I can see live now. Before I would stay up endless hours of the night to watch.. but I dont know.. especially with more foreigners leaving, my interest is definitely on the decline.. but I think that is more from an entertainment point of view. I love seeing great games. But I feel replays are better served for informative study.
Yes and No i feel that its the same thing over and over again. Alot of the games are tvt tvp pvp. Zv* is lacking and if so its going to be an allings. SC right now feels very bland but still very interesting=). I found this old interview and Nony made a really good point. Have a look.
GSL is on the cutting edge of skill and the metagame, period. The stuff that's being pulled off in GSL is refined and sometimes revolutionary, and oftentimes those builds and strategies find their way into NA and EU tournaments shortly after being revealed in GSL. Also, GSL has been the first major tournament to use the new map pool, which has produced some hugely entertaining games so far.
Nevertheless, Day9 once said that the best games come from players' mistakes, and since GSL players make far fewer mistakes than the average non-Korean player, the games are sometimes too aggressive and straightforward to my liking. Pros are able to take advantage of every minuscule sign of weakness and inflate it into a huge advantage, thus quickly crushing their opponent. Less skilled players may not be able to do this, and may produce some intense, back and forth games as a result.
GSL is still the highest level tournament in the world, and I often watch it to see the highest level of play currently. NA and EU tournaments are decent, but the passivity of non-Koreans is annoying to watch after seeing the insane antics of MKP, Kyrix, and JulyZerg.
my GSL interest has decreased alot, but i dont think the problem lies in the GSL but that there is so much starcraft stuff is going on atm, its kinda of being overflooded with esport
Not at all. In fact, I chose the "No, I am as interested in it as the foreigner scene." option as it has helped pique my interest in the whole pro scene.
I suppose that being from the SEA region helps me enjoy the scene as a whole, seeing as the progaming scene here is nowhere near the level of liveliness of NA/EU. I don't have the same inclination that fans from EU/NA have for their own scene, as a result. So I just get excited for whatever tourney, whether its an NA tourney, an EU tourney, or the GSL since I know I'm more or less going to see either my favorite players or good play.
I love watching it for a number of reasons. - Its got the best players in the world there (anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves) - Just watching the skill level is fantastic. - Its got Artosis commentating. He leaves all other caster/commentators for dead. His passion and knowledge is insane. - A big thing for me is the timezone. Its in my primetime, so i can still live, eat, breath normal hours :D - I have no problem with kelly, Doa etc. Living in most multicultural city in the world helps to easily understand accents and language though i guess. Although that being said, some people within the community are so ignorant and naiive that they would find anything to complain about on these forums i guess. I think they are doing a great job. And with Kelly leaving, i feel sorry for HuK - John. 'nuff said.
Honestly, i'm not particularly interested in the NASL at all. IdrA is the only real drawcard. If i had to choose between that and the european leagues, i would watch the Euro's any day of the week. Their sense of competition, FUN, and laid back attitudes fits well with how i live, and i generally find them more comfortable to watch.
only because the NASL hasn't really kicked off yet, but following seasons I probably will still choose LIVE GSL over pre-recorded nasl. But then LIVE NASL over LIVE GSL. Then again, I do still have time to watch both.
for me it's more that I still am very much interested in the GSL but becoming even more interested in the foreign scene with all the upcoming leagues/tournies and the existing ones getting bigger and better.
On March 10 2011 16:16 TL.happYhOUR wrote: Yes and No i feel that its the same thing over and over again. Alot of the games are tvt tvp pvp. Zv* is lacking and if so its going to be an allings. SC right now feels very bland. I was just watch this old interview and Nony made a good point early and i feel it is so. Have a look http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgSXEf5udNE&feature=related
This youtube video couldn't have been more wrong. If you want more styles, put more features in the game (aka more units, maybe bigger maps, maybe higher food count) if you want more shit to do, expand the game, don't rag on mechanics being efficient. Shouldn't ever have to fight with the computer about how you control your economy and units.
Computers some day will be mind-interface, should we still resort to keyboards then? No, expand the game... more entertaining anyways.
Oh, and I also love Tasteless and Artosis as well as the general atmosphere of GSL casts.
The abundant use of ingame music as well as out-of-game songs really adds tons of life to the cast whereas other casts are casted in musical silence, which just feels boring in my eyes.
Tastosis is the perfect mix of entertainment and education. Artosis is an encyclopedia of knowledge, and his analysis is second to none, except for maybe Day9. Tasteless also has excellent commentary, though his main strength is his ability to seamlessly infuse the cast with some of the best humor I've heard anywhere.
Seriously, Tastosis is the gem of GSL and any other cast. They've casted Warcraft 3, had no clue what was going on in that game, yet still made that cast one of the most entertaining casts available anywhere. They could start their own show in Comedy Central, and it would be much funnier than the majority of other shows.
On March 10 2011 14:11 HunterStarcraft wrote: I'm as excited as ever when it comes to Code-S, I've been thoroughly enjoying almost every single match. Just take the most recent RO8 battle - Nada vs JulyZerg.. freaking NUTS!
Code-A... is another story. To be 100% honest, I would still enjoy Code-A quite a bit with Tasteless or Artosis casting with Kelly. Now that it's Kelly + Doa, I haven't been as enthralled. Hopefully this will change though.
See, a lot of people thought those games were fun to watch. Then Idra says they suck and their games suck and TL doesn't know what to think anymore.
God Nada vs July was so epic and exciting.
Sometimes Idra makes me sad.
And honestly, if he's so much better than July/Nada then he probably should have stuck around for 1 more season as he should have no trouble getting to the finals if someone as awful as July/Nada can make the semis right?
On March 10 2011 16:11 Vei wrote: are you fucking kidding me english is a) impossibly hard as a second language, it's a miracle she can speak it as well as she does
Really? Curious, of all the languages I've learned or tried to learn, I felt English was by far the easiest.
EDIT: Mind you, I agree that she speaks the language very well. Accents are such a detail. FURTHER EDIT: Then again, I imagine that the difficulty of learning any language is relative to your native language. As a native French speaker, I would suppose learning English was easier for me than it was for Kelly if she started off with an oriental language. After all, a significant portion of the English language comes from French.
I think its nice to have quite a lot tournament coming still the level of GSL is quite above the other league, its just my personal opinion after having heard White-Ra really has a strong opinion about the level of Korean players in an interview and seen the IEM being dominated by 3 GSL code A Korean players. To me the number of players or how it organizing is not really matter so as long as GSL still remain the league of the best, it is still my top priority
I don't watch GSL because of the foreigners but because of the incredible skill and good commentary. When a foreigner is playing I'm always cheering for him, but I won't stop watching GSL as long as it is the highest level of gameplay.
GSL has fantastic production quality. Its very enjoyable to watch. Its obviously more competitive than any other league at the moment. That being said, I still probably am in favor of MLG and hopefully NASL. It just seems more personal having it in the States. Ive been to mutiple MLG events for for non-SC2 events and it was a blast. I guess I just can't relate to the GSL as well. Still, as long as Tastosis is going strong, I will be tuning into the GSL as much as I can.
GSL is becoming better with each season and if anything, my interest in it increases.
Obviously I'm also looking forward to all other events and leagues, but let's be honest: There's not much on the horizon. TSL3 will be awesome of course, but it's a one-time thing. Only the NASL could come close but I'm pretty sure that (in the beginning) it won't deliver what I enjoy so much about the GSL - high level games and high level commentary. That may improve, of course, but the foreigner performances so far (Assembly, IEM etc) couldn't really compare to what we're used from the Koreans.
GSL still has the best production value. Things are easy to find etc. The koreans have been doing this for years. It's hard to catch up. Sure, I like guys like Huk and WhiteRa, but I'll just have to stick to seeing select games of theirs casted on Youtube or something.
On March 10 2011 15:24 Buddhist wrote: My interest in GSL is dropping, and I never had interest in other tourneys either.
It's mostly the dwindling amount of Tasteless/Artosis.
Kelly's accent is really quite horrible. She pronounces everything incredibly stupidly. That other guy (whose name I don't even know) is alright but it sounds like everything is forced, like he just says things because other casters do.
(ノ`٥´)ノ what is this shit? (ノ`٥´)ノ
now you know how your American accent sounds to the rest of the world
Er, no.
Every native English speaker pronounces the "i" in "stim" the same way. It's not steam, it's stim.
Americans and Canadians pronounce almost everything the EXACT same way, too, and UK/Australian accents sound quite nice.
I wouldn't even be bothered by almost any of her accent, I find it far less a problem than most people, but what REALLY annoys me is her seeming laziness. It's not hard to just NOT pronounce "stim" wrong, like seriously. Stim, not steam.
I know they have the "ih" sound in asia.
edit: Also everything she says has the infliction of a question on it, and she leaves off the s from words.
He forget to siege his tank? He need to steam his marine?
are you fucking kidding me english is a) impossibly hard as a second language, it's a miracle she can speak it as well as she does b) she's very understandable. if you were learning japanese/casting in japanese, some obvious inflections to them would be incredibly subtle to you. she's obviously been working on her accent because it's improve a ton, but you can't expect her to pronounce everything 100% properly in a language that is BASED on exceptions and not rules to pronunciation/spelling. i noticed the stim/steam thing too but it's not laziness, i'm sure she's put in a ton of fucking work.
and yes i hated her at first but now i think she's decent. it's just ANY casting combo that lacks artosis fucking sucks because you get no analysis on a pro level, but you guys seem to not mention that and just focus on her accent. the problem is way more the lack of artosis, be real.
should be noted that English is the official language of Singapore
Don't think any foreign tournament will compare to GSL, not anytime soon anyway.
That said I was sad this season because all the players I'm a fan of are out but I still watched because there were some amazing unknown players left in both Code A and S.
Of course not! I might watch NASL in addition to the GSL, but that depends on the time it is streamed, as well as the level of play inside of it. I hope the western esports scene finally gets together and starts forming team houses like in Korea, especially since, it seems, you can make money off it here easier than in Korea with all the various tournaments around. :-)
On March 10 2011 16:16 TL.happYhOUR wrote: Yes and No i feel that its the same thing over and over again. Alot of the games are tvt tvp pvp. Zv* is lacking and if so its going to be an allings. SC right now feels very bland. I was just watch this old interview and Nony made a good point early and i feel it is so. Have a look http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgSXEf5udNE&feature=related
This youtube video couldn't have been more wrong. If you want more styles, put more features in the game (aka more units, maybe bigger maps, maybe higher food count) if you want more shit to do, expand the game, don't rag on mechanics being efficient. Shouldn't ever have to fight with the computer about how you control your economy and units.
Computers some day will be mind-interface, should we still resort to keyboards then? No, expand the game... more entertaining anyways.
Starcraft games can already be determined by single units. should we add more of that? Adding new units can be good but its more than that. For example the hellion drop can gg you of your not ready for it. but if you are and kill it it doesn't even punish terran hard enough for chosing to get it. There should be a risky factor.Like if protoss rushes for dts and it fails the amount of resourses invested in to teching up for dts and having it fails set you back. It can produce interesting games but there is that risk factors. Also scouting can be really difficult early game. Should we bring back lurkers when hydras are tier 2 after lair btw hydras is so expensive what more do we pay for lurkers? 300 food food is very interesting but who knows we might see a 300 army death ball or 300 zerg push? but this is not a balance decision im no expert. im just saying Gsl is really the highest level of completion for sc2 but there is alot of tvt tvp and mirror. How interesting can that be if you watch it over and over again? So back to the tread i will still follow gsl because it is after all the highest level. Pros seem to agree that the korean ladder is the hardest by far. So new interesting builds will most likely come from the gsl and i would like to witness it when it happens.
I really find code A hard to watch now, no offense to these new people, I just don't enjoy their casting. They need to bring in someone new who can be analytical and fill the void left by Artosis.
My interest is increasing with the recent improvements of code A players and new maps. As a paying customer i'm really pleased, and i will continue to pay for the amazing production value and entertainment.
Can't really understand people who talk about free stuff. One whole season of GSL has been between 10-20 bucks, that's one or two pizzas.
GSL provides the absolute best SC2 play there is and it's only getting better with every season with stuff like maps and skill level of some code A players. They also provide the best caster there is, Artosis. I've watched every single game since the first season and I have no intention of stopping. I love high level Starcraft. I couldn't care less about the lack of foreigners in GSL. That's just proof that Koreans are better. I don't care about foreigners that aren't able to compete at the highest level.
I'll watch TSL for sure but since TL in general gets off on seeing the best of the best as well they've made sure to field some of the best players from GSL. It's only a single one time tournament though so it isn't really relevant. MLG is just a weekend and is as such, also irrelevant, in comparison with GSL. We'll see how NASL turns out, but if they don't field some heavy hitters from Korea I'll probably end up watching only Idra's games.
On March 10 2011 16:52 esaul17 wrote: I missed that interview, what did White-Ra say?
Did you see some GSL matches recently?
White-Ra: Yes I did, but I did not focus too much on them.
There were many All-in-Games.
White-Ra: I don't like these tactics. I do love skill-based games. I do not like the way Koreans play.
Why not?
White-Ra: Because there aren't many good gamers. We don't see matches like the matches between European and American gamers. We do have more guys who show an interesting playstyle. The Koreans do not play with big engagements. And I don't think that this is good for the community.
This post seemed really racist, what with all the talk about foreigners etc. I watch games in the GSL because they are the ones with the players that have the overall highest skill. The caliber of the tournament is much greater, as is the competitiveness, so I simply do not care for lack of foreigners.
GSL is just so exciting, and besides, it'll be hard to surpass the great casting Archon that is Tasteosis who greatly enhance the spectating experience. Games in code S GSL are also generally more impressive that what you can find elsewhere.
On March 10 2011 16:52 esaul17 wrote: I missed that interview, what did White-Ra say?
Did you see some GSL matches recently?
White-Ra: Yes I did, but I did not focus too much on them.
There were many All-in-Games.
White-Ra: I don't like these tactics. I do love skill-based games. I do not like the way Koreans play.
Why not?
White-Ra: Because there aren't many good gamers. We don't see matches like the matches between European and American gamers. We do have more guys who show an interesting playstyle. The Koreans do not play with big engagements. And I don't think that this is good for the community.
My interest in the GSL is still quite high. I love the Code S matches, and there have been some epic Code A matches so far but the only thing that gets me for the code A matches is the lack of tastetosis, Kellys accent is hard to listen to sometimes, but I have no doubt that she is working hard at it, I think a lot of people have been over critical of her and I'd be very surprised if she hasn't noticed some of it as well which is pretty unfortunate because casting professional SC2 games where things can happen so fast at times in a second language can't be all that easy and there are bound to be mistakes.
Plus the production quality is pretty outstanding especially when compared to everything else.
ATM GSL is my only interest, don't have time to watch other tournaments, and i don't rate players geographically, I just love to watch intensive games, don't care who is on other side of keyboard...
I will watch all competitions as I love watching sc2. Don't even play it much myself anymore. GSL will always be the highest calibre, but watching MLG etc is still good.
Why do we have to choose? I'm going to be following all intently, but frankly I respect the fact that GSL is still going to be the top competition in the world.
On March 10 2011 16:52 esaul17 wrote: I missed that interview, what did White-Ra say?
Did you see some GSL matches recently?
White-Ra: Yes I did, but I did not focus too much on them.
There were many All-in-Games.
White-Ra: I don't like these tactics. I do love skill-based games. I do not like the way Koreans play.
Why not?
White-Ra: Because there aren't many good gamers. We don't see matches like the matches between European and American gamers. We do have more guys who show an interesting playstyle. The Koreans do not play with big engagements. And I don't think that this is good for the community.
LOL, what a troll White-Ra is. He is welcome to go over to GSL and show us the "skill based" games, whatever that means.
That was an awful and, really not exepcted, thing to say from such a respected player as him.
He comes out, at best, looking like a troll.
I think that interview was after IEM kiev, not hannover, during which the GSL was a stupid all-in fest, especially TvZ. White-Ra's comments were justified. Now im sure he would say different things.
I stopped looking when they switched format. I liked the format they had last year but now with up and down matches, A and S class etc it is just confusing. Also it is to many matches, I have to prioritze my SC time and it more fun to play then to watch.
Yes, although I'm usually up at the hours GSL is on I like to buy the premium tickets so that I can rewatch PvX games since they are more entertaining since I play Protoss.
to lazy to install the gom player thingie or whatever i need heh. But my interest is rising in watching the gsl, as macro only gamestyles are getting rarer ^^.
On March 10 2011 15:24 Buddhist wrote: My interest in GSL is dropping, and I never had interest in other tourneys either.
It's mostly the dwindling amount of Tasteless/Artosis.
Kelly's accent is really quite horrible. She pronounces everything incredibly stupidly. That other guy (whose name I don't even know) is alright but it sounds like everything is forced, like he just says things because other casters do.
(ノ`٥´)ノ what is this shit? (ノ`٥´)ノ
now you know how your American accent sounds to the rest of the world
Er, no.
Every native English speaker pronounces the "i" in "stim" the same way. It's not steam, it's stim.
Americans and Canadians pronounce almost everything the EXACT same way, too, and UK/Australian accents sound quite nice.
I wouldn't even be bothered by almost any of her accent, I find it far less a problem than most people, but what REALLY annoys me is her seeming laziness. It's not hard to just NOT pronounce "stim" wrong, like seriously. Stim, not steam.
I know they have the "ih" sound in asia.
edit: Also everything she says has the infliction of a question on it, and she leaves off the s from words.
He forget to siege his tank? He need to steam his marine?
are you fucking kidding me english is a) impossibly hard as a second language, it's a miracle she can speak it as well as she does b) she's very understandable. if you were learning japanese/casting in japanese, some obvious inflections to them would be incredibly subtle to you. she's obviously been working on her accent because it's improve a ton, but you can't expect her to pronounce everything 100% properly in a language that is BASED on exceptions and not rules to pronunciation/spelling. i noticed the stim/steam thing too but it's not laziness, i'm sure she's put in a ton of fucking work.
and yes i hated her at first but now i think she's decent. it's just ANY casting combo that lacks artosis fucking sucks because you get no analysis on a pro level, but you guys seem to not mention that and just focus on her accent. the problem is way more the lack of artosis, be real.
The lack of pro-level analysis is obvious.
What people seem to not understand is: Yes, I can understand everything she says. However, "stim" is not "steam", and that's not subtle at all.
On March 10 2011 17:59 Weavel wrote: GSL is still the best tournament there is. Awesome casters, players and maps. It's getting better season by season.
I dunno about getting better season by season, but the rest of the points are so true.
But no, i'm not losing interest in GSL. Just having less time watching the games.
GSL is still my biggest interest in SC2 by far. Best players, best production, etc etc.
TSL will be awesome and I can't wait for that, but it's not like it's as regular an occurence as the other big events.
MLG's should be pretty good and I'll try catch them when I can, hopefully we can get a nice international attendance at them too.
Don't really care too much about the NASL right now in comparison to the others, though hopefully their first season is worth watching a bit of. More interested in seeing the development of the FXOpen events tbh.
I continue to watch Code S and code A. If i have time i will watch the NASL, but i don't think i will pay for that as well. The best players, the best casters and the best show is (for now) in korea in the gsl. If that will change in the future I might consider switching, but as of now i will continue watch gsl
tsl main tournaments will be main prio, but it's no lan, and the tournaments will be far in between. i have almost no interest for watching tlopens.
gsl will remain no.1 overall, and i strongly doubt mlg or nasl will usurp that spot this year
the level of play, innovation, skill, and production values inherent to such a huge(ly competitive) lan tournament, coupled with the extremely high production is a tough nut to crack. mlg and whatever other leagues are gonna have to step it up hardcore to reach that level, and i don't see it happening at least for the first 3/4ths of 2011.
2-3mb hq streams do not compensate for the production quality, longer duration, nonstop live coverage, and so on + the significantly higher skill ceiling of the korean tournament.
even with the way the mlg and nasl are shaping up atm, -!admittedly from the little info released-, eye candy for few $ and popular names do nothing for me to overlook the huge gap in professionalism and scale compared to the gsl
i understand other people want to cheer for their westerners and all, but i'm not that guy. i care about the best and most entertaining players, if they're all korean i'll watch them play, if they're all american, then i'll watch them. i also care about the insanely competitive qualifier process - let's see some westerner training houses develop for several months and some more hardcore professional training, then i might be more interested in the western tournaments
NOTE: i will still follow them, i think the eu-na tourneys this year are gonna be hugely entertaining and the scene will blow up, i am definitely looking forward to it; however, we're a long way off from me not paying my season ticket, and even if things go smooth and the foreign scene explodes over a few months, gsl will still be top3 at worst.
On March 10 2011 16:52 esaul17 wrote: I missed that interview, what did White-Ra say?
Did you see some GSL matches recently?
White-Ra: Yes I did, but I did not focus too much on them.
There were many All-in-Games.
White-Ra: I don't like these tactics. I do love skill-based games. I do not like the way Koreans play.
Why not?
White-Ra: Because there aren't many good gamers. We don't see matches like the matches between European and American gamers. We do have more guys who show an interesting playstyle. The Koreans do not play with big engagements. And I don't think that this is good for the community.
LOL, what a troll White-Ra is. He is welcome to go over to GSL and show us the "skill based" games, whatever that means.
That was an awful and, really not exepcted, thing to say from such a respected player as him.
He comes out, at best, looking like a troll.
I think that interview was after IEM kiev, not hannover, during which the GSL was a stupid all-in fest, especially TvZ. White-Ra's comments were justified. Now im sure he would say different things.
That's good to hear. I'm a pretty big White-Ra fan, and if that was still his opinion in the wake of this current GSL and the most recent IEM, I'd be very disappointed.
I liked it much more when everything was cast by the amazing Tastetosis. The new casters are only 5-10% as entertaining or intelligent about the game. I will probably still watch all GSL and the new tournaments. Incontrol Day9 TLO and Rotterdam are way better commentary than the code A casters.
GSL Code S casted by Tastetosis is the Main Event, and looks like it will be for a long time to come. Best players, huge prizes, beautiful booths, best casting Archon, LIVE events, high production values/editing. Who is gonna compete with that any time soon? I venture to say, nobody.
On March 10 2011 16:52 esaul17 wrote: I missed that interview, what did White-Ra say?
Did you see some GSL matches recently?
White-Ra: Yes I did, but I did not focus too much on them.
There were many All-in-Games.
White-Ra: I don't like these tactics. I do love skill-based games. I do not like the way Koreans play.
Why not?
White-Ra: Because there aren't many good gamers. We don't see matches like the matches between European and American gamers. We do have more guys who show an interesting playstyle. The Koreans do not play with big engagements. And I don't think that this is good for the community.
I stopped watching during the cheese-fest days, i was also of the same thinking as white-ra...that eu/us is miles ahead of korea (at least at that time).
And now, i just can't pay for premium (nor i ever did) so i am not watching...and restreamers are getting banned so it's hard to find them anyway.
As long as tournaments are free to watch i am fine with it...
On March 10 2011 18:22 Gotmog wrote: I stopped watching during the cheese-fest days, i was also of the same thinking as white-ra...that eu/us is miles ahead of korea (at least at that time).
And now, i just can't pay for premium (nor i ever did) so i am not watching...and restreamers are getting banned so it's hard to find them anyway.
As long as tournaments are free to watch i am fine with it...
EU/NA was NEVER ahead of Korea. They play to win. If doing an all-in is the best way to win because many aren't able to defend it, there's nothing wrong with that. It's necessary to separate good builds from bad and good players from bad. It's part of becoming a good player. If anything you should blame Blizzard for their horrible maps.
On March 10 2011 16:52 esaul17 wrote: I missed that interview, what did White-Ra say?
Did you see some GSL matches recently?
White-Ra: Yes I did, but I did not focus too much on them.
There were many All-in-Games.
White-Ra: I don't like these tactics. I do love skill-based games. I do not like the way Koreans play.
Why not?
White-Ra: Because there aren't many good gamers. We don't see matches like the matches between European and American gamers. We do have more guys who show an interesting playstyle. The Koreans do not play with big engagements. And I don't think that this is good for the community.
LOL, what a troll White-Ra is. He is welcome to go over to GSL and show us the "skill based" games, whatever that means.
That was an awful and, really not exepcted, thing to say from such a respected player as him.
He comes out, at best, looking like a troll.
I think that interview was after IEM kiev, not hannover, during which the GSL was a stupid all-in fest, especially TvZ. White-Ra's comments were justified. Now im sure he would say different things.
That's good to hear. I'm a pretty big White-Ra fan, and if that was still his opinion in the wake of this current GSL and the most recent IEM, I'd be very disappointed.
Stay the course. White-ra is and forever will be rational, manner and gosu. Hes sort of the ex-soviet bloc version of nony
TBH, I think the market is oversaturated with SC2 games. With BW, there are only 3OSL/3MSL/1 PL per year. Finals are coordinated by season and occur around the same time of the year, to mutually help each other build up hype. MSL/OSL never scheduled matches in the same timeframe. With SC2, not only are there 2 GSL tournaments (Code A/Code S) per month, there's NASL, IEM, MLG, TSL, and tons of smaller tournaments. While this is a sign of a vibrant programing scene, which is good, it also lessens the appeal of any one particular tournament as there's just so many options out there. It's not uncommon to see 3 to 4 tournaments/streams to be up at the same time. This, I think is the problem with GSL. By crowning two champions a month, they reduce the novelty of the whole event, and makes it a lot less appealing. Although it sounds silly, but I think less SC2 would make GSL more exciting.
I feel the GSL is very much the most interesting thing to watch, the players find ways to be aggressive throughout the game and the casters are of high quality.
most other tournaments i like watching, but it doesn't seem as full of entertainment.
To watch and learn from pros i'd take replays over casting any day.
i only watch GSL because of the foreigners.. And now that theres only basically Jinro and maybe HuK in it, i just dont find myself watching regularly anymore.. Dont think this is going to change either, considering the influx of overseas tournaments. No foreign team is going to send players to Korea..
On March 10 2011 11:51 GhostFall wrote: code A im losing interesting in. code S still high
I agree, not because of the players or whatever. The commentators are the reason for my loss of interest in Code A (and the reason I'm not buying any more season passes), although, i still watch the games on mute if a foreigner is playing .
Code S is still amazing as tasteless and artosis are still commentators .
Tastosis is the best casting combo i know of (probably the best, although i don't know alot of other casters). They need a couple who have good team chemistry like tastosis for code A, maybe not as good, but something decent at least. So yeah, Code S has been as good as always (better when they introduced new maps) but I had to mute the volume and turn on kpop as a substitute while watching Code A.
On March 10 2011 11:58 Grobyc wrote: Needs a "Yes, but never had a premium ticket in the first place" poll option.
pretty much this. with idra/ret leaving that just leaves jinro/huk and other old bw players that i'm interested in. guess i might watch the final if july gets there, but too much interesting bw going on right now.
tl's policy of not linking to restreams doesn't help matters
GSL > all for me. I follow the BW pro scene religiously and care most about skill and not where the player is from. Seeing players of the calibre of MC, MVP or Nestea is much much more interesting to me than foreigners who'd be Code A at their very best. I like Jinro because of his style and not that he's white.
The production value is that of the MSL and the prestige comparable to winning an OSL. And with Artosis and Tasteless we have great commentators. I love all the GSL Maps! The all-in's show just a general problem with the game.
GSL is going on when I am at school. If no bigger or better turny is playing at that time I will still watch it when I am at school, since then it is the only time I watch SC streams.
On March 10 2011 18:22 Gotmog wrote: I stopped watching during the cheese-fest days, i was also of the same thinking as white-ra...that eu/us is miles ahead of korea (at least at that time).
And now, i just can't pay for premium (nor i ever did) so i am not watching...and restreamers are getting banned so it's hard to find them anyway.
As long as tournaments are free to watch i am fine with it...
EU/NA was NEVER ahead of Korea. They play to win. If doing an all-in is the best way to win because many aren't able to defend it, there's nothing wrong with that. It's necessary to separate good builds from bad and good players from bad. It's part of becoming a good player. If anything you should blame Blizzard for their horrible maps.
Also, GSL is free to watch live.
Well...seems that both white-ra and day9 agree partially at least...so i don't think things were that black and white. But yah...they played to win for sure, and would've dominated on our ladders as well. ( but i wouldn't call that good play)
On March 10 2011 18:22 Gotmog wrote: I stopped watching during the cheese-fest days, i was also of the same thinking as white-ra...that eu/us is miles ahead of korea (at least at that time).
And now, i just can't pay for premium (nor i ever did) so i am not watching...and restreamers are getting banned so it's hard to find them anyway.
As long as tournaments are free to watch i am fine with it...
EU/NA was NEVER ahead of Korea. They play to win. If doing an all-in is the best way to win because many aren't able to defend it, there's nothing wrong with that. It's necessary to separate good builds from bad and good players from bad. It's part of becoming a good player. If anything you should blame Blizzard for their horrible maps.
Also, GSL is free to watch live.
The problem is there are few holes in EU/NA players builds even at pro level. I feel it is wrong not to exploit these holes. It is like I'd expand three times at the start without any units and expecting to win. No player will want to play macro game with that player, it's just doesn't feel right in SC2 (yes I get that this things happen in BW but different mechanics and people know so much about BW,m there are hardly any punishing builds for them). White-ra had a hole in his build so did other players in IEM, the koreans (mainly Ace) found their weakness and used all-in (well not all the time but a lot of the time they would use the exact same timing and punish the build). I feel pretty down White-ra said this after IEM, very sad indeed, although I can understand his anger losing before he could finish his macro build. However a good player needs to refine their build rather than just say it's because of 'all-in', I'm sure Ace would not have all-ined if he did not see the obvious weakness in White-ra's build. Look at the replay again, yes, it is the same all in, targeting one point when white-ra is very weak (too weak infact).
For me, GSL is getting MORE interesting. In past seasons i often found the strategies/BOs used somewhat questionable, but now this really has changed and nowadays its really refined stuff.
The first seasons, i actually watched very few to no games, now i even watch T/P games.
Time zones and school mean I have little opportunity to watch GSL, forcing me to buy premium tickets for vods so I don't watch GSL much at all. TSL I will definitely watch - the european scene is just more interesting to follow for me.
On March 10 2011 18:22 Gotmog wrote: I stopped watching during the cheese-fest days, i was also of the same thinking as white-ra...that eu/us is miles ahead of korea (at least at that time).
And now, i just can't pay for premium (nor i ever did) so i am not watching...and restreamers are getting banned so it's hard to find them anyway.
As long as tournaments are free to watch i am fine with it...
EU/NA was NEVER ahead of Korea. They play to win. If doing an all-in is the best way to win because many aren't able to defend it, there's nothing wrong with that. It's necessary to separate good builds from bad and good players from bad. It's part of becoming a good player. If anything you should blame Blizzard for their horrible maps.
Also, GSL is free to watch live.
Well...seems that both white-ra and day9 agree partially at least...so i don't think things were that black and white. But yah...they played to win for sure, and would've dominated on our ladders as well. ( but i wouldn't call that good play)
Agreed, past tense. They agreed as of many seasons ago. Im sure now its quite clear to everyone that GSL shows great macro games at the absolute highest level of play.
At first I liked the new maps, I liked the changes and I was in full support of the reasoning behind it.
Then I started to realize that I watch GSL because the games inspire me to do similar stuff on the ladder. I was actually learning how to play the game by watching GSL. And the new maps arent helping me WHATSOEVER on the ladder, because not only are the maps themself irrelevant to me, the playstyle and strategies these maps induce are irrelevant too, you simply cannot translate those builds and strategies to the official ladder maps.
If they keep using maps that arent relevant to my laddering, I wont continue to watch GSL. No matter how skilled the Koreans may be, no matter how spectacular and entertaining the actual games may be. They might as well be playing a completely different game. I have lost all interest in any GSL games that are played out on non-ladder maps, and non-ladder maps are featured in the vast majority of GSL games right now.
If the GSL goes back to ladder maps, I'll keep watching. Maybe they can mix in one or two of the official 2v2 maps for more macro intensive games? But please, keep the games somewhat relevant to ladder scrubs like me who mainly watch GSL to improve their own play.
On March 10 2011 20:01 MrBadMan wrote: At first I liked the new maps, I liked the changes and I was in full support of the reasoning behind it.
Then I started to realize that I watch GSL because the games inspire me to do similar stuff on the ladder. I was actually learning how to play the game by watching GSL. And the new maps arent helping me WHATSOEVER on the ladder, because not only are the maps themself irrelevant to me, the playstyle and strategies these maps induce are irrelevant too, you simply cannot translate those builds and strategies to the official ladder maps.
If they keep using maps that arent relevant to my laddering, I wont continue to watch GSL. No matter how skilled the Koreans may be, no matter how spectacular and entertaining the actual games may be. They might as well be playing a completely different game. I have lost all interest in any GSL games that are played out on non-ladder maps, and non-ladder maps are featured in the vast majority of GSL games right now.
If the GSL goes back to ladder maps, I'll keep watching. Maybe they can mix in one or two of the official 2v2 maps for more macro intensive games? But please, keep the games somewhat relevant to ladder scrubs like me who mainly watch GSL to improve their own play.
Isn't blizzard adding GSL maps to the ladder pool? Problem solved.
I got your point and it's good no argue about that, but i cant see full reason not to watch sc2 games because they are playing a different map than you are. I'm sure there is a way to use the same strategies and playstyles in the current ladderpool, even if the koreans are doing it on GSL map.
I hope the maps get sorted out somehow(and you continue watching GSL again!). Adding more (GSL) maps to the ladderpool and taking some away, would be the best possible way to do so.
I always thought that NASL limiting the amount of Koreans competing was a dick move considering how generous and nice the GSL has been to foreigners. But then I realised that NASL might kill the GSL because of the larger prize money if they didn't.
GSL all the way, the level is higher and waaaaay more entertaining. There are few foreigner players that I do like to watch but it's a pretty small group compared to the many many many koreans I love
GSL is the best of the best, i'll be watching NASL, TSL, MLG but GSL will be the best tournament ever for me because of the high quality of play, awesome production, and the games just get better and better with the new maps, Koreans will sweep the floor in every tournament and that will only make GSL more popular than it is now.
I don't really like the remaining players too much and it's again very annoying to just have one Zerg in the Top8 (and the fact that you almost never see July play a long macro-game -.-°).
Besides, many other Tournaments use new Maps now as well, which was my main reason besides Artosis to watch GSL.
I still watch it if I can though, I just wish there were more Zergs and really good players like Nestea, MVP and Jinro in the Top-4.
I liked the previous seasons a tinsy-winsy bit more only because it was a clear 64-player knockout tournament, now I'm just not sure if I get the whole Code A / Code S / Up'n'down matches and group stages. However the skill is still amazing and I'm watching it mainly for the Taste-osis Casting Archon.
Still this season's final is finally going to be something new
My interest in the GSL depends largely on the games. If there is a streak with "boring games" I will lose interest, but the new GSL maps have done a lot to increase interest in the game this season. Obviously the effect of patches and such might change it as well and if the BC speed increase makes them finally worthwile for the Progamers to use the matches might become even more interesting. There are still a lot of underused units though to provide maximum variety in the used tactics.
Current interest: 7(10) ... +1 for GSL maps, -1 for "boring" maps like Metalopolis
MLG burned me many times with 2 hour delays, constant commercials, odd production values. 40 min of waiting between games etc. This argument can be thrown at IEM, Assembly, Dreamhack and every other live tournament out there that isent GSL
TSL wont have those problems but we will still be watching replays, which while still fantastic especially with the players they got is not as exciting as watching it live
NASL i have no opinions on yet, but i assume it will be similar to TSL, being that the only downside to these 2 are that they arent actually live games.
Then you also have the best players in SC2 right now in GSL, aswell as the best casters (Tastosis) and a tournament that is well run, with almost no delays or any major problems. When i see that GSL is starting in 1h and 1m i know its starting in 1h and 1m. When i see that MLG is starting in 1h and 1m, i know its starting around 4+hours and ?? minutes. Note: I am not trying to troll any organisation here, these have been my experiences with them throughout the years even before SC2 came out.
Yea, if anything I think my interest in GSL is growing. I havent had a premium ticket but I may have to get one for the next season. With each season weve seen considerably less all-ins and now we're beginning to see many long and intense macro games. It's no doubt that the quality of games and players has risen with each season. I'm also exciting to see more team leagues. Foreign tournies are still going to hold my interest but they cannot replace the quality of the GSL players and the games they provide.
It's tough to say. I recently got really into GSL as a result of the January/Team leagues. I think my Code A interest is decreasing while my interest in Code S is increasing. As written was written above, I think the player quality has gone up substantially each season. I'll definitely keep watching the GSL with just as much, if not more frequency.
This Season started pretty awesome, but after nearly all big-names are out, i'm a bit sad. Also as a Terran, the PvP and PvZ Matchups aren't as interesting as a TvZ or TvP. But this season is actually better just because of the new maps. Last Season i saw bunker-rush after bunker-rush, after bunker-rush. :O
I'm still loving the GSL (Code S) for two reasons: it is definitely the highest caliber of play... and because of Tastetosis, the casting archon! Those guys could be commentating paint dry, and I'd probably still watch it
People here still think EU/NA play is as strong as Korea? Umm hate to break it to you but Korea has always been ahead/will forever be ahead until the rest of the world starts training as intensely as the Koreans do. Top foreigners are no where near top koreans (with a few exceptions). Not sure why people are so naive.
I watch starcraft 2 because it is highly interesting as a COMPETITIVE game. And if someone starts a incredibly huge tournament with the intention of trying to keep the Korean participants artificially low, then the tournament loses its legatimacy and I lose the interest.
If that will be the case with the NASL remains to be seen, but I'm rooting for it not to be the case. This is merely a reply to xeris's interview saying people would rather enjoy seeing foreigners play than koreans.
On March 10 2011 11:51 GhostFall wrote: code A im losing interesting in. code S still high
This basically sums it up for me as well. If there isn't a big name in code A that I already know/am a fan of, I won't watch. Call it what you will, but I want AT LEAST Artosis or Tasteless casting Code A. I realize they need time off and generally I have no major issues with Kelly or Doa but it's just...not good enough.
well, I only watch code A when foreigners are playing.. or next code A since some big code S names might be down there. Code S is still good. hopefully Jinro will get ro4 or more again next season
Im enjoying this GSL season quite a lot with all the upsets and unexpected eliminations leading to a huge "up & down" series incoming soon. So my interest isnt lowering at all.
This doesnt mean i dont follow the EU, NA, and to a less extent, SEA. I enjoy the weekly online tournaments and the bigger events such as MLG, IEM, Dreamhack and so on. Obviously im looking forward to see how well the NASL gets established with all this events already being around for quite a while. Hopefully will be doing good.
So for me the GSL is the "main event" but i do invest time following as much of the foreign tournament scene as possible.
Code A has the best games but casting is not so good at times. Code S has huge blowouts but the best casting. I cant see myself not watching gsl in the future. It is too convenient for my timezone so it will always be prioritised over ESL MLG NASL
My interest in code A is gone since HuK is gone, but code S remains high. I generally like to watch and cheer for good foreigner play. However, I think my entertainment from the gsl is still there mainly because of tastosis.
im only interested when foreigners play. when i see korean sc2 it just seems like they are riding the flavour of the month abuse train until a style that beats it in invented. eventually when sc2 gets older all these players who can only 'fotm' will drop out and be replaced by people who can actually macro well on any number of bases.
this is part of why i was only interested in jinro and idras games, you knew you were gonna get a game with someone who is trying to make sc2 their career rather than purely someone trying to win this 1 tourney before better players come up and crush them.
that being said, there are a few koreans who play and i just think wow, that seems so strong and that inspires me to go and try and emulate them, and there are plenty of foreigners who you watch and think, wow this guy is actually pretty terrible. so i try to keep up with gsl matches even if most of them arent what im looking for
People that say that they strongly favor watching Code S over code A confirm by that that quality of the games is not their top priority, even if they claim otherwise.
As the novelty of the idea behind the GSL wears off, I'd say my interest is waning. I'm more interested in the euro/na players, since the korean ones have like, no emotion.
17% wont buy anymore... pretty much. poll misses the "havent bought yet but will in future" option.
well, for my case, gsl is only all in and that sucks. King of All-In, oGsMC, is the favourite to win it all. the 2 games today werent allin but the guys who won will be killed by an all-inner in the semis, and the finals will be All Ins all over again (MC vs July/somebody else) with the All-In-King winning it all.
too predictable. too much all-in. the games today were great though
Nationality is unimportant to me. Wherever the top players go, I watch. Koreans and Korean-trained progamers are still the top dogs, so that is what I shall continue watching. That being said, I still fully intend to watch NASL, IEM, MLG, etc as they will still be entertaining in their own way. It's like the difference between watching college sports and professional sports. The collegiates may not be as skilled as the professionals, but they're still wildy entertaining.
i'd rather watch gsl than any other tournament; it has the best competition and the best casters. that doesn't mean i won't watch other leagues, i just prefer gsl to any of them.
On March 10 2011 11:51 GhostFall wrote: code A im losing interesting in. code S still high
The first answer mirrors mine. I realized I watched GSL mainly for Tastosis. I even liked Code A when they alternated in and out, but without either of them those matches are much less interesting. I will still keep my ticket renewing though, as code S VODs alone are well worth it.
I find that it varies, depending entirely on who is playing that night; I need to have some sort of interest in the player outside of 'they are really, really good.' Skilled players with a unique style, story/narrative behind them or discernible personality will always keep me more interested, and perhaps it's a cultural thing, perhaps it's just a coincidence, but I sometimes find NA/EU/SEA players easier to engage with on that level. However, I'm relatively new to the starcraft scene, so I've no doubt that's also because my interest isn't as 'purely' motivated by a love of the game/mechanics.
I'll still be watching the GSL and most likely paying for premium tickets, but there will be occasions where I choose to give it a miss in favour of NASL/whatever else.
it s getting intersting at times gsl has never been more entertaining especially now zerg and toss figured out how to beat the multutide of 1 base terraner, cant wait to see good terran in action gogo supernova <3
I think this season hasnt been much to write home about.
We're now facing ZvP or PvP finals, and I think both matchups in their current form are in a sorry state. The only hope is that July manages to innovate in his ZvP, otherwise we're looking for very one-sided and uninteresting games.
I'm trying to watch day after day, but I can't because of shitty GomTV plater what gives me a 0000051 error on every computer I have :/ I'm waiting for better tournaments then.
On March 11 2011 01:37 NieSwiety wrote: I'm trying to watch day after day, but I can't because of shitty GomTV plater what gives me a 0000051 error on every computer I have :/ I'm waiting for better tournaments then.
I often get that too.
Watch some Code S matches, foreigners in Code A.
Didn't buy a ticket, most probably wont buy eithe, or at least, not in a long time.
I lost interest in GSL because i started to found SC2 slightly boring. Hard counters and unidimensional races are not my cup of tea. I'm not disappointed by the game-play or the production. Everything is getting better and better. But i think i was disappointed by the game.
On the other hand, as a member of a community, i'm interested on the NASL. We have learn to know a lot of the future players of the NASL and thanks to their streams, we have become fans of players both because of their ability and their personality. Per example, i hope Catz will do well because i think he's a great guy with an entertaining style, and i will tune in to see him play.
There is a massive difference in skill between Koreans and foreigners (maybe there always will be). The tip-top GSL players consistently try, and pull off, tactics and micro that that I can hardly even conceive of. So much creativity and skill. The horrible GSL game is the anomaly The tip-top foreigners just seem like really refined versions of what I see everyday on the ladder, there are a few exceptions to that here and there, but not consistently. I feel like the epic foreigner game is the anomaly.
i watched bw for many years while hardly knowing the name of any foreigner players. with the launch of sc2 i started following non-koreans and will continue to do so, however my heart is still in the korean scene since it is where i get the highest level of play.
just as i rather watch champions league and spanish/english series than some crummy swedish match in fotboll.
im happy to pay the (for me at least) low cost for the great quality in streaming and vods, and compared to say, the last iem, the level of quality in organization and professionalism is so much higher.
I wouldn't say my interest in GSL in general has gone down but this particular season is rather dull now but that's because all the players I'm rooting for(foreigners, Lyn, Moon etc) are out.
On March 11 2011 02:13 xlat wrote: just as i rather watch champions league and spanish/english series than some crummy swedish match in fotboll.
haha so true. whenever i watch MLS on tv...i cant watch it more than 10 mins. and then decide to watch something else. makes me want to watch Premier League or any other major european league even more.
Same goes for starcraft. Sure I like watching foreigners play, but in the end GSL is where the highest level of play is. Doesnt matter that i dont 'associate' with the korean players.
I just want something similar to proleague once there's enough of a playerbase. I feel a lot of disconnect with the teams that are playing. I feel that it's a lot more fun to be able to root for your favorite team (that may have your fave players, but a couple that you dislike) than to just pick and choose individuals.
I often find myself just skimming through matches that don't involve players that I don't care about, because it doesn't affect the players I do care about very much. A team environment encourages me as a viewer to care about the results of other players, which in turn makes me watch their games and usually increases my interest in the more nameless players.
With the recent showing of Koreans at IEM it's clear that gsl is still the premier league in the sport right now and Tasteless and Artosis also provide the best commentary (Day9 is in the conversation but he too often gets marred with bad co-casters at tournaments). Plus the subscription and vods are incredibly easy and user friendly to navigate and they're up an hour or two after the games were played. MLG and IEM really can't compete in that regard, the NASL will definitely be good but I don't see it surpassing gsl, the best it can do is probably matching it.
I think this season was a bit weird and while it's had some great games, it's also had a lot of really quite lacklustre play as well.
I think the way the group stage works really screws the tournament, since it's essentially double elim best of one, which is a terrible format for SC2. Anything can happen in single game and one bad game the first round can essentially cost a player the whole tournament, I feel Nestea going out was the best example of this. Would he have lost a Bo3 to SanZenith or oGsEnsnare? I can't say for sure obviously but I think it's safe to say he would have a much much higher chance of winning a Bo3 than Bo1.
Just leaves me feeling like the tournament doesn't mean that much when such proven strong players get knocked out by a terrible group format. Are any of the players in the Top 4 capable of beating oGsMC in a Bo5 or Bo7? I highly doubt it, July has got a good shot but MC pretty much has the whole thing won already, he just has to not fuck up and play as well as he has show he can. The finals will be even more anti-climatic than his roflstomp of Rain in S3.
the GSL is very relevant in a sense that there are big names, and a bigger drive to increase skill for the game being that these players are shown live. Even if there are alot of upsets or you dont get to see your favorite player make it to the finals, none the less this is proving my point that players will naturally improve there skill on all levels to perform well at these events and thats all we can ask for. I personally think the GSL is getting better and better. Everything will always have cracks in it when it is new so just give it time and show your support.
The GSL is excellent I think. Code S is still where the best players are showing off. I think tastosis is really hitting their stride as well. I actually bought a ticket for the first time this week because I just had to see the VODs this season.
BS thread... stop creating these snowball theories and ideas. If you find your interest in something lowering keep it to yourself imo... Sorry but Im jus tired off the many "Im tired of this...", "I'm fed up of that...", "Not interesting me anymore...." type threads that pop up so often.
There should be a "I watch it more, it's got better" option. Don't be so dam negative all the time.
Artosis and Tasteless are much better than they were at the start. Todays cast was really polished and hilarious at the same time. And the new casters are great too, bringing a bit of needed variety to the casts.
It has been lowering, but that's actually just because since GSTL I've not been able to buy tickets, despite trying. My card gets rejected (even though I can pay with it just fine on for example Steam), and I don't want to sign up with paypal (because there is absolutely no reason for why I should have to). So basically I've just had to watch whatever I can live (not a lot), and the rest I miss.
The "I only want to watch the absolute best players" phenomenon is certainly very interesting, but in a lot of ways it's a concept that doesn't hold up so well when compared with leagues for other sports.
Take for example (American) Football. I watch the Super Bowl, because it's the Super Bowl. I watch most of the playoff games leading up to it, regardless of who's playing, because it's the playoffs. When it comes to the regular season games, though, I tend to only really follow the hometeam games, and maybe watch some other games if they happen to be on. I just don't have the time or inclination to ensure I see every game that gets played anywhere. I assure you it isn't because everyone from Chicago or Las Angeles is Asian. The hometeam factor is a strong one, and it has nothing to do with racism.
For the average person, that's how following sports works: there's a player (or team, or whatnot) that they really like, and they watch their games. They might watch some other games sometimes, especially if it's a really big game, but largely, they follow a specific group of individuals. The hardcore fans are different, but there are a lot more casual viewers than hardcore fans out there.
This is something the NASL has recognized. People follow players, or teams. Skill is nice, but if the hometeam is the worst team in the league, everyone will still watch their games. By attempting to create more content and insert more of a narrative behind and between the games, this is what the NASL is trying to encourage. They're trying to create situations where you really get behind your favorite players.They want to really play up the drama between players with histories together, and the like. The average person doesn't care if the very best player in the world isn't in the game they're watching, they want to feel a connection with the players and cheer for them when they win.
It's different for hardcore fans. It always is. It's also different for players. If I'm trying to learn how to do something, I'm more likely to try to find the people who do it best than to just follow people I'm a fan of. What you need to keep in mind is that growing any sport requires getting buy-in from people who aren't playing it at a high level, and that requires more narrative than player skill. Getting Americans, or Europeans, to buy into eSports doesn't work so well if the major proponents of them are 16 year old kids with a very different cultural background and on the other side of a very large ocean (or Russia, which is also very large). It's not that everyone hates Asians, it's just much easier to relate to someone who lives a block away from you, to say nothing of national pride.
In short, the GSL is an established league with the most skilled players in the world, and will continue to be followed by people who play this game at a high level. For people who don't play at a high level or perhaps have no inclination to play at all, the approach the NASL is taking is a huge step forward.
I definitely am losing interest. It's great to follow during the summer, when you don't have a job or school. I just can't see anyone with a normal job or school schedule in the United States or Canada staying up till 7am to watch the gsl. I mean I know if you buy a premium ticket you can watch the VODs, but it's just not the same as watching a tournament live. I'm sure if i lived in aussie and could watch it at 8pm it would be a completely different story. Its not that the gsl is getting worse, its just on at a horrible time.
I did the premium ticket for the first time this season and was not going to renew it. With kelly malinakis gone I probably will now renew it to be honest.
I was thinking the NASL thing would peak my interest more when the news first dropped, but the more I hear about it the less I like it. I dunno, maybe iNControl will somehow become a good caster before it starts, but im not holding my breath. I don't think the level of competition will be all that high in comparison to the other events out there just because of the limitations to teams and the fact that some of the best players in the world might not be involved. Seriously... a major foreign tournament without Whitera... something is wrong. Even when he doesn't perform well he provides some of the most entertaining games out there. I especially though Russel's comment on State of the Game a couple weeks ago was stupid about how in the NBA you have to be on a team to play. Competitive Starcraft is in a 1v1 format... .its not a team game. Of course if you're playing a team game, like basketball, you would need a team. They took this great concept with a great goal and turned the entire thing into an afterthought. I just hope I'm wrong cause I want to see some good games.
Not at all. Usually, I have school when its running but when I do have the chance to watch, I will do anything I can to watch it. Sure, a lot of the big names went out early but that didn't lower my excitement. I still got to see good games as well as some lackluster games.
these threads man...you make it sound that just because you're losing interest, means the whole community is losing interest. so glad the poll destroyed your argument.
on a simmilar note, why are so many people trying to poke holes in the GSL or the upcoming NASL? There is litterally no reason to complain about the game we love reaching this level. I could give two sh***s if the production value of the NASL is horrible (which it won't be). I'll still buy the premium ticket AND watch it live b/c I love this game. The GSL has the best players in the world competing, sad to see previous champions out so early No reason to say you're bored with it. Fine. Good. Leave. But don't make a thread trying to put down something that is great for esports and great for this game.
No matter how big the foreigner scene grows, I will always continue to watch the GSL, mainly because the Koreans are better, the GSL games are entertaining, and the cap between foreigners and Koreans are getting bigger and bigger in favor of the Koreans in my opinion, so the GSL will be the place to look out for new insane strategies and such. (Just my opinion)
GSL is still the league where the best of the best play, most new strategies are born, and most exciting games happen, in the best maps around. Plus, it has the best casting duo possible, and insanely high production values.
Most of all however, watching the GSL is plain and simple fun, lots of fun. It's a great TV show, and that makes it awesome to watch, even if you're not that much into sc2.
For me it all depends on the players. Like MC v Hongun was honestly hard to watch. Also I REALLY dislike Huk's ZvP style (moving out with almost zero units in the early game which does zero damage and just loses units/wastes ffs) so those game weren't very fun to watch either. But then you get games with jinro, alicia, july and the like and it really catches my attention. I do like the fact you tend to see a little more variety with builds and strategic play in the foreigner scene and it's easier (for me) to be a fan of foreigners just from watching their streams and such. Idk, just my two cents.
I want to support everything SC2 related. I'll keep the ticket as long as the games are enjoyable to watch. I'll also be supporting the other scenes starting as well
The GSL will never be topped by a westerner counterpart, ever. South korea is the mecca of Esports. The culture of the S.koreans accept it. They work hard, they play all day long, everydays. Kids from white suburbia they never are going to have the focus necessery to attain the level to play at GSL level. Only hard workers like Jinro, Huk and co have been able to cope with the level of play required. Most gamers in the west have some sort of superiority complex, with the exception of a very few, and it really shows in their play. IEM showcassed the lack of focus that is inherant from our generation, and ultimately that`s why Korean are more than often superior at progamming.
I guess i`m being judgemental right there, but those are the cold hard facts. I hope that some foreigners will adopt the korean mentality, work on their mechanics and try their luck at the GSL. Beside TSL, i never watch the non-korean games. They are long, or ultra chessy, nobodies proactive, the games feels slow.....they scream lack of practice. It`s the Grrr. Syndrome. Although, im pretty sure Huk at least, will never be affected, cause he`s a hard worker.
So, all in all, it`s GSL forever, untill Mbc or OGn comes with their own leagues, tournaments.
My interest has waned quite a bit since the ro16, where I realized that MC was the most likely to win the tournament. Now we're down to the ro4 and I'm still pretty sure that MC will win the next two rounds in a one sided fashion. Seeing all my favorite players out of the tourney makes it less interesting to me. And while a lot of people think the games are really good, I just haven't seen a lot of innovative games.
More macro games for sure, but macro doesn't necessarily mean good. The Sanzenith vs scfou games, for example, were all pretty much the same game being played out on different maps. Incredibly boring. Same strategy used by both players in all the games.
its just a slow season with alot of peoples favorite players to watch getting knocked out coupled with what alot of people see as a facepalm with the new code a casters but overall i havent lost interest in the gsl in general as much as iv lost interest in this particular season because of the lack of huge names in the ro8 but overall its niec to see ppl like sanzenith playin well
seeing that they are beginning to put the vods on a youtube channel for all to watch, i think a few less people will subscribe, but the games will none the less be able to be viewed and what not. Still, enjoying the explosion of esports!
I'm finding the games are getting better especially in Code A. I was dissapointed this season to see alot of big names get knocked out, especially Jinro .
On March 11 2011 09:21 Kar98 wrote: I'm finding the games are getting better especially in Code A. I was dissapointed this season to see alot of big names get knocked out, especially Jinro .
I agree with that too. I actually felt that some of the best games of the tournament were played in Code A. Let`s not forget that there`s even some players that havent made it to code A yet and that are tremendously great, which is really encouraging for the scene. Guys like, Bomber, Squirtle Seed, Younghwa, Puzzle, Dongrae, ImHappy, ImHorror, kasyoFou ect. Plus we got the possibility of having Huk, alicia, supernovae leenock and Losira in Code S (and ST_Ace). To me, thats exciting.
You know the moment after a 30 minute long intense game where the camera goes to the player and you see him breathe a sigh of relief as the sweat on his forehead glows from the spotlights? That's why I will always choose gsl over nasl
IdrA leaving aswell as none of the foreigners really doing well or even believing themselves makes me sad.
Seriously JinrO and you all need to start really thinking you CAN win. I was hoping on HuK because he seemed to have that confidence, but he just fell apart his last matches.
Nestea and Fruitdealer performing badly makes me sad.
BUT... the games overall have improved shitloads, seriously the games inbetween zenith and whoever that protoss was (someone really good) was godamn epic, like 30 minute games 3 games in a row where there was constant CONSTANT fighting, dropping and overall macroing. I love that shit.
Having watched alot of foreigners play its fun but they usually dont play as good, only jinro and idra have ever perfomed that good and only when they seem to get in some trance or shit... that trance could win them the GSL/NSAL/whatever but they seem to have alot harder maintaining or reaching it than most koreans which is why I think GSL will have better games than any other tournament for a while. And I dont have a relationship to most foreigners other than Idra so I wont care that much when they play in the nsal... itll be more dynamic maybe and in time ill probably care more but for now gsl.
Also please dont make so many rivaling topics, SC2 is getting bigger, it doesnt have to kill itself when growing: It isnt a bad thing in the long run, everyone knows this so dont make it sound so drastic that GSL wont be so tempting for foreigners for a while.
for some reason I cannot bring myself to watch the games anymore, even though I have the ticket I have probably watched 5 games total this season..there`s just so many I don`t even feel like starting to watch them all.
On March 10 2011 11:51 GhostFall wrote: code A im losing interesting in. code S still high
Completely agree. Code A's players lack charisma so it's difficult to get into it. I don't know much about LosirA or SuperNoVa. Code S's players, particularly NaDa, July and MC etc. have a hell of a lot of charisma which makes it interesting to watch. Events like IEM actually interest me slightly more. I think the coverage may be slightly better.
Of course I would watch the GSL. After watching it and then checking out some foreigners tournaments, foreigners who don't play in Korea are too amateur for me.
stopped watching code a due to kelly casting. havent even checked out the other new caster because of kelly. code s is still good as ever with tastosis. i mean this season had a lot of upsets with most favorites already out (cept mc) so it did get a lil less interesting, but there were rises of the sleeper players(san n july interms of sc2) so its okay.
also I guess gsl did get a lil bit less relevant with ladder players due to their own maps and those maps not being included in ladder pool. I really hope blizz gets gsl maps in them
I prefer any tournament where it is live and you can see the players. It is much more exciting seeing the players face as the are playing the game. This is why GSL will still be much better than NASL.
Having said that the problem that GSL faces is that all the favourites are getting knocked out and Code S is mainly filled with no-namers.
I really don't understand TL's irrational hate for upsets and no-name players knocking out big name players. Why does that make you hate them and say they're bad? Shouldn't it do the opposite, impress you that they beat such big name established players?
I remember when Flash first beat Bisu, there were still tons of people calling him a lucky talentless cheesy noob. Then he beat Stork, but was still shit on. Then he beat Stork again, and people blamed it on Stork choking, not Flash being amazing. How do you think new big names are supposed to arise? By NOT beating the old big names?
Seeing top foreigners like Jinro, Huk, Haypro, Moonglade, etc. play in a tournament where there is a directly link to the still top tier players is what peaks my interest. Of course I enjoy rooting for oGs by proxy and MC in particular seems like a pretty funny guy. But I say without any foreigners to watch, my interest wanes a bit. I am okay with missing a cast if none of the players interest me and it has not impact on a future foreigner match.
My interest in the GSL as a whole has not dented, but it does fluctuate depending on the circumstances of the particular tournament.
I feel that there are too many games to make most of them seem important, and important games are what make me want to watch. I haven't bought the ticket yet and don't intend to in the future. Also, the lack of non-Koreans turns be off because I'm not as familiar with Koreans compared to non-Koreans.
I'm more into GSL now then I ever was. The games are getting better by the day as player skill improves. I can't wait to see the future of SC2 and GSL!
The tastosis archon needs a nerf, they're OP. Best casters of all time, imo.
The only gripe I have about GSL is the lack of foreigners.
It's not about making each game seem important, it's about a legit tournament. The amount of games just adds to odds of finding amazing games, with amazing casters.
On March 11 2011 12:46 AirbladeOrange wrote: I feel that there are too many games to make most of them seem important, and important games are what make me want to watch. I haven't bought the ticket yet and don't intend to in the future. Also, the lack of non-Koreans turns be off because I'm not as familiar with Koreans compared to non-Koreans.
i am losing interest in code a. but still love code s. its great that code a games are becoming equal to code s in skill level but with the new commentators i cant really find it as fun.
i actually started to like kelly and look forward to her casting with artosis. but now we have doa which is about as interesting/ informative as my next door neighbor trying to cast. i respect him for what he does but i just cant find him entertaining on any level. i guess its cool that i can understand him easier than kelly, but his analyses sounds like hes a diamond player. , plus he tries way to hard to make jokes and leaves me feeling awkward for him.
I'm just not interested in GSL this season because all of the big name players that I like to watch (aside from MC) got eliminated in ro32 or ro16, leaving mostly players that I don't really care about.
I'm definitely looking forward to the up and down matches though :p
On March 11 2011 10:59 Mindflow wrote: To many upsets and BS for me to keep along with GSL atm =( need flash and JD noaw
So you prefer the stagnation of a duopoly than the excitement of the movements of change! I`m not down with that, bro! How boring if there was a Flash only after a year or so. Lee young ho basically figured out the game for Terran. SaVioR figured out Zerg. I wouldnt want a player to figure out a game after a year when ScBw took 10 years to be solved.
EPT
