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On March 10 2011 18:56 Markus138 wrote:
she said herself she's in diamond walking the way up to masters. Which basically means she was on masters in SEA. DoA said for example that he was on the US Server in Platinum. I dont say that she has the knowledge of Artosis. But I think that's nothing anyone can ask for.
Provide an example that shows she knows what she is talking about or has ever made an insightful comment. I provided one which shows that she doesn't just before your post.
Also, yes, that is something people can ask for. There are plenty of people out there that have knowledge atleast approaching Artosis. Furthermore, if it's someone's full time job you CAN expect them to have that level of knowlege. The cast what, 15 hours a week? Great they can put in another 25 watching VODs and learning the game. Work isn't always fun. These casters are BEING PAID, it is 100% reasonable to expect they know the game in and out.
Additionally, when it comes to the accent. The fact that people may or may not be able to understand her doesn't matter. She has stated herself that if she gets excited she slips into Singlish and can be very hard to understand. As a result she has to restrain herself and watch how she talks. No matter how you look at it this hampers her ability to cast, and makes it looks like she is nervous, uncomfortable, and/or afraid to speak. As accents are hard to break, she would have a hard time overcoming this.
Also, calling people sexist just makes you look biased and will make alot of people not take you serious.
Edit: And the guy saying people just prefer two guys over a girl is pretty funny. I'm pretty sure if GOM announceed tommorow some girl with a good voice and good game knowledge (female Tasteless I guess?) people would go nuts and a massive fanpage would pop up.
Newsflash, Artosis and Tasteless aren't perfect either. They both miss things, and are hilariously biased. They are just way better than anyone else people have seen. Them being "perfect" doesn't have anything to do with Kelly's weaknesses.
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Yer she was a pretty bad caster. I used to watch her cast with HDPhoenix and I would try and to give feedback that her casting speech needed to be worked on (in which I got banned from).. Lesson is.. dont ban someone when they try to give feedback because now it it bit her in the back... could of tried harder...
btw most of the time she was casting I would see HD trying to cast it properly while kelly would go around the house changing clothes every 4 mins
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On March 10 2011 18:42 Markus138 wrote:
Cant these fuckin sexists shut up finally? They managed to make gom send a great caster away. She did a great job casting. She had knowledge and she spoke perfectly english - anyone disagreeing about the language should try to learn english themselves. I'm not a native speaker and my english isn't the best either but I understood everything she said without ANY problems.
I hope she takes all the sexists not too serious and maybe we'll see here again in Code A some time
lol, are you trolling? who said anything about her being female?
she has a horrible accent
I can understand her easily, it's just extremely annoying to hear "steam" instead of "stim", and nothing pluralized
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For a community that goes apeshit over gamers being "bm" the level of hostility to Kelly has been beyond a joke.
It's the kind of pathetic hypocrisy that sickens me, I'm appalled that this has come out of the SC community.
From death threats to outright racist and sexist attitudes the SC community has shown itself to be just another internet cesspit full of trolls and elitist pricks. You've shown your true colours with this one.
GG
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I don't care that she's a girl, and I don't care that she's asian. The code A caster could be a transsexual blue monkey from Mars I wouldn't care either.
I just don't like her voice, her accent is hard to understand at times, and she doesn't seem to have the knowledge necessary to cast a Starcraft II game in a tournament as prestigious as the GSL.
You can't say that people that don't like her are racist or sexist, everyone is entitled to their opinion. And GOM will hire the people they think is the more suited for the job, no need to flip out.
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On March 10 2011 19:29 Kazang wrote:
From death threats to outright racist and sexist attitudes the SC community has shown itself to be just another internet cesspit full of trolls and elitist pricks. You've shown your true colours with this one.
GG
lol, this just shows some people can't take criticism, even when it's about other people
reminds me of "everyone who doesn't like obama is racist"
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On March 10 2011 18:56 Markus138 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 18:51 TyrantPotato wrote:On March 10 2011 18:42 Markus138 wrote:
Cant these fuckin sexists shut up finally? They managed to make gom send a great caster away. She did a great job casting. She had knowledge and she spoke perfectly english - anyone disagreeing about the language should try to learn english themselves. I'm not a native speaker and my english isn't the best either but I understood everything she said without ANY problems.
I hope she takes all the sexists not too serious and maybe we'll see here again in Code A some time i can manage most accents. i could understand her fine. however the way she delivered her english. her grammer was not to the level an english commentator should have. and i have to disagree with you with her having the knowledge. last i checked she was a platnium player, and by watching her casts she offered little to no analytical insight. only repeating what was said or explaining things completely wrong or irrelevent. therewere many times where you could tell from tasteless and artosis's voices that they just wanted to yell out wrong. she is better commentator then most people on these forums. but she is not to standard for the english streaming of such a high level event. and from the article posted earlier, i do hope she understands that the reason for the uproar against her was her lack of english grammar and knowledge. not because she is female and asian..... i mean koreans are asian arent they? and we are watching the gsl a primarily korean tournement. she has an accent, yes. so does everyone not directly from England. Even Americans. Rotterdam e.g. is a great caster, one of the most famous in Europe, and has an accent - nobody cares. she said herself she's in diamond walking the way up to masters. Which basically means she was on masters in SEA. DoA said for example that he was on the US Server in Platinum. I dont say that she has the knowledge of Artosis. But I think that's nothing anyone can ask for.
http://www.sc2ranks.com/sea/174635/aLtkeLLy
Unless she's dramatically improved lately. And it's pretty common knowledge that not all the wins on her account are from her.
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On March 10 2011 19:29 Kazang wrote:
For a community that goes apeshit over gamers being "bm" the level of hostility to Kelly has been beyond a joke.
It's the kind of pathetic hypocrisy that sickens me, I'm appalled that this has come out of the SC community.
From death threats to outright racist and sexist attitudes the SC community has shown itself to be just another internet cesspit full of trolls and elitist pricks. You've shown your true colours with this one.
GG
Um... and what of the people who have remained composed? Heck, your post itself displays ignorance in generalising a whole community.
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I honestly don't care if the caster is male, female, or anything in between.
I do care about the knowledge the caster possess, and Kelly didn't have enough of that. I can always get over an accent if it's saying something important. Now the vitriol in which the community responded to her was over the top as hell but I mean...she wasn't a great caster.
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I am sure she is a nice person but she is not the right person for the job.
Her accent is extremely bad.. and her voice-tone is very annoying.
But that's not the main reason why I feel she should not be hired, it's because she is NOT a good caster. Her commentating is pretty bad.. generic and lots of times even WRONG
I remember once she saw that the zerg player after he got 100 mins for speed pulled the drones off gas and she said "Oh he is doing a zergling all-in" ....
....
... that's just one of the MANY MANY examples I can say..
the fact that she is female and asian doesn't have ANYTHING to do with this whole thing.
players that don't like her should not feel bad for expressing their opinion.. Again.. I am sure she's a nice person but she is absolutely not the right one for the job.
That's supposed to be an high quality english stream.
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Wow, poor admins. How can they read threads like this without shooting yourselves is beyond me. You are true heroes of the internetz!
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On March 10 2011 20:01 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 18:56 Markus138 wrote:On March 10 2011 18:51 TyrantPotato wrote:On March 10 2011 18:42 Markus138 wrote:
Cant these fuckin sexists shut up finally? They managed to make gom send a great caster away. She did a great job casting. She had knowledge and she spoke perfectly english - anyone disagreeing about the language should try to learn english themselves. I'm not a native speaker and my english isn't the best either but I understood everything she said without ANY problems.
I hope she takes all the sexists not too serious and maybe we'll see here again in Code A some time i can manage most accents. i could understand her fine. however the way she delivered her english. her grammer was not to the level an english commentator should have. and i have to disagree with you with her having the knowledge. last i checked she was a platnium player, and by watching her casts she offered little to no analytical insight. only repeating what was said or explaining things completely wrong or irrelevent. therewere many times where you could tell from tasteless and artosis's voices that they just wanted to yell out wrong. she is better commentator then most people on these forums. but she is not to standard for the english streaming of such a high level event. and from the article posted earlier, i do hope she understands that the reason for the uproar against her was her lack of english grammar and knowledge. not because she is female and asian..... i mean koreans are asian arent they? and we are watching the gsl a primarily korean tournement. she has an accent, yes. so does everyone not directly from England. Even Americans. Rotterdam e.g. is a great caster, one of the most famous in Europe, and has an accent - nobody cares. she said herself she's in diamond walking the way up to masters. Which basically means she was on masters in SEA. DoA said for example that he was on the US Server in Platinum. I dont say that she has the knowledge of Artosis. But I think that's nothing anyone can ask for. http://www.sc2ranks.com/sea/174635/aLtkeLLyUnless she's dramatically improved lately. And it's pretty common knowledge that not all the wins on her account are from her.
I don't know what point you're trying to make by posting a random profile. If it is her's it can be her casting profile and she normally ladders on another account. As I said before: She said herself she's in Korea currently in diamond and "she can't get into masters because it's so difficult in korea" which only leads to the conclusion she has a masters account in SEA (or wherevere she used to play before)
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On March 10 2011 20:08 Markus138 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 20:01 Dfgj wrote:On March 10 2011 18:56 Markus138 wrote:On March 10 2011 18:51 TyrantPotato wrote:On March 10 2011 18:42 Markus138 wrote:
Cant these fuckin sexists shut up finally? They managed to make gom send a great caster away. She did a great job casting. She had knowledge and she spoke perfectly english - anyone disagreeing about the language should try to learn english themselves. I'm not a native speaker and my english isn't the best either but I understood everything she said without ANY problems.
I hope she takes all the sexists not too serious and maybe we'll see here again in Code A some time i can manage most accents. i could understand her fine. however the way she delivered her english. her grammer was not to the level an english commentator should have. and i have to disagree with you with her having the knowledge. last i checked she was a platnium player, and by watching her casts she offered little to no analytical insight. only repeating what was said or explaining things completely wrong or irrelevent. therewere many times where you could tell from tasteless and artosis's voices that they just wanted to yell out wrong. she is better commentator then most people on these forums. but she is not to standard for the english streaming of such a high level event. and from the article posted earlier, i do hope she understands that the reason for the uproar against her was her lack of english grammar and knowledge. not because she is female and asian..... i mean koreans are asian arent they? and we are watching the gsl a primarily korean tournement. she has an accent, yes. so does everyone not directly from England. Even Americans. Rotterdam e.g. is a great caster, one of the most famous in Europe, and has an accent - nobody cares. she said herself she's in diamond walking the way up to masters. Which basically means she was on masters in SEA. DoA said for example that he was on the US Server in Platinum. I dont say that she has the knowledge of Artosis. But I think that's nothing anyone can ask for. http://www.sc2ranks.com/sea/174635/aLtkeLLyUnless she's dramatically improved lately. And it's pretty common knowledge that not all the wins on her account are from her. I don't know what point you're trying to make by posting a random profile. If it is her's it can be her casting profile and she normally ladders on another account. As I said before: She said herself she's in Korea currently in diamond and "she can't get into masters because it's so difficult in korea" which only leads to the conclusion she has a masters account in SEA (or wherevere she used to play before)
Not really.
The only conclusion is that Masters is difficult to get in Korea. Whether or not Kelly has achieved Masters ranking in SEA or wherever else is still up for debate.
Regardless ranking is totally irrelevant to this topic. There are people that have intrinsic knowledge of the game that can cast well but don't have the skill to use that knowledge. Kelly doesn't have the knowledge as she demonstrated when she plain didn't cast well when she did cast.
I mean it's nothing more than that fundamentally.
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On March 10 2011 20:08 Markus138 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 20:01 Dfgj wrote:On March 10 2011 18:56 Markus138 wrote:On March 10 2011 18:51 TyrantPotato wrote:On March 10 2011 18:42 Markus138 wrote:
Cant these fuckin sexists shut up finally? They managed to make gom send a great caster away. She did a great job casting. She had knowledge and she spoke perfectly english - anyone disagreeing about the language should try to learn english themselves. I'm not a native speaker and my english isn't the best either but I understood everything she said without ANY problems.
I hope she takes all the sexists not too serious and maybe we'll see here again in Code A some time i can manage most accents. i could understand her fine. however the way she delivered her english. her grammer was not to the level an english commentator should have. and i have to disagree with you with her having the knowledge. last i checked she was a platnium player, and by watching her casts she offered little to no analytical insight. only repeating what was said or explaining things completely wrong or irrelevent. therewere many times where you could tell from tasteless and artosis's voices that they just wanted to yell out wrong. she is better commentator then most people on these forums. but she is not to standard for the english streaming of such a high level event. and from the article posted earlier, i do hope she understands that the reason for the uproar against her was her lack of english grammar and knowledge. not because she is female and asian..... i mean koreans are asian arent they? and we are watching the gsl a primarily korean tournement. she has an accent, yes. so does everyone not directly from England. Even Americans. Rotterdam e.g. is a great caster, one of the most famous in Europe, and has an accent - nobody cares. she said herself she's in diamond walking the way up to masters. Which basically means she was on masters in SEA. DoA said for example that he was on the US Server in Platinum. I dont say that she has the knowledge of Artosis. But I think that's nothing anyone can ask for. http://www.sc2ranks.com/sea/174635/aLtkeLLyUnless she's dramatically improved lately. And it's pretty common knowledge that not all the wins on her account are from her. I don't know what point you're trying to make by posting a random profile. If it is her's it can be her casting profile and she normally ladders on another account. As I said before: She said herself she's in Korea currently in diamond and "she can't get into masters because it's so difficult in korea" which only leads to the conclusion she has a masters account in SEA (or wherevere she used to play before)
She also said she was diamond in SEA when Glade played on her account. Pardon me for being unbelieving.
Guy above me is right anyways, rank is less important that casting ability/knowledge. Sadly, she's lacking there :<
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When she was just hired, I was a neutral and I believed that she deserved a chance to show what she could do. Now that she has almost finished a season of casts, I think we, as viewers, are qualified to assess her suitability for the GSL.
Succintly, I think she is not of a sufficient standard to be one of the faces of the GSL to the international community. Putting aside her accent, which I think, at its worst moments, can throw a viewer's attention off the game, she has several debilitating deficiencies as a live commentator for an event as large as the GSL.
Firstly, she lacks the game knowledge to produce insightful and accurate analysis of the game on-the-fly. With DoA being a far better play-by-play commentator, this deficiency is made even more obvious. Her better casts were with Artosis and Tasteless, one of the reasons for which was because they could cover for her lack of strategical insight, reducing her role to more of a play-by-play caster, and sometimes even less, as a commentary supplement or "side-kick".
Secondly, she lacks the interpersonal skills or proficiency of the English language to interact with her co-caster synergistically. Oftentimes, she has disregarded a conversion started by her co-caster and proceeded to say something completely irrelevant. It leaves her co-caster hanging and makes for awkward transitions and moments. In that way, she does not provide support for her co-caster in the manner that Artosis and Tasteless often do, saving each other from awkward silences due to overly lame jokes or completely off-topic statements. Her deficiency is not due to a lack of time to gel with DoA, as DoA does his workload of the "gelling" fine enough. Crucially, her mistakes are often very basic. She oftentimes ignores what DoA (or Artosis or Tasteless) has said and just recites a line that she had clearly conjured while her co-caster was trying to dialogue with her. This is commentary symbiosis 101. In fact, it is also plain good manners.
Thirdly, I can unequivocally argue that she is uninteresting. She lacks the charisma to engage directly with the audience, oftentimes falling back and relying on her co-casters energy and wit to create humour. She lacks the eloquency or the proficiency of English required to cogently explain her point, weak or inaccurate that point may be. She often cuts short her sentence and waits in anticipation for her co-caster to "rescue" her with a follow-up dialogue (while she does not do so for her co-caster herself). Her tendency to do this leads to a lack of continuity in the commentary, or even where there is continuity, it is often awkward or forced.
So, I think that she is very very far from the professional standard that a caster of the GSL requires. By professional, I mean a caster that can engage personally with the audience, supports and leads his/her co-caster to synergistic effect, and a caster that can bring insight or some other benefit to the commentary. Her points are generally weak and are oftentimes inaccurate. Her delivery is poor and she does not explain what she is trying to say. Her compatibility with her co-caster depends on her co-caster's ability to bridge the divide by himself/herself. In fact, I would argue that her jokes are generally uninteresting, and are at times, extremely wrenching to hear.
I'm sorry to Kelly for making my viewpoint of her casting ability so clear. I wish her success in her endeavours, but I really believe that GOMTV should consider replacing Kelly with a caster more on the level required by such a prestigious tournament.
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Havn't watched code A this season so I can't really be one to judge.
However can't believe all these people feeling sorry for her. Casting is all about the audience, if they don't like it the casting has failed. People can express their oppinion and the less sugarcoated it is the more you probably can take it for valid.
Sexist and offensive remarks is not ok though, if you want to make a valid point you start by treating people with respect.
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I didnt like her casting , its a personal opnion. Im not "sexist".
If I don't like someones casting ability I dont care if they are black , white , asian, american , french , young or old.
Fact is I had a hard time understanding her accent. Her english is great but when its your living ,it has to be better than great it has to be perfect. Her gender has nothing to do with her casting ability.
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On March 10 2011 20:37 tyCe wrote:
Secondly, she lacks the interpersonal skills or proficiency of the English language to interact with her co-caster synergistically. Oftentimes, she has disregarded a conversion started by her co-caster and proceeded to say something completely irrelevant. It leaves her co-caster hanging and makes for awkward transitions and moments. In that way, she does not provide support for her co-caster in the manner that Artosis and Tasteless often do, saving each other from awkward silences due to overly lame jokes or completely off-topic statements. Her deficiency is not due to a lack of time to gel with DoA, as DoA does his workload of the "gelling" fine enough. Crucially, her mistakes are often very basic. She oftentimes ignores what DoA (or Artosis or Tasteless) has said and just recites a line that she had clearly conjured while her co-caster was trying to dialogue with her. This is commentary symbiosis 101. In fact, it is also plain good manners.
Thirdly, I can unequivocally argue that she is uninteresting. She lacks the charisma to engage directly with the audience, oftentimes falling back and relying on her co-casters energy and wit to create humour. She lacks the eloquency or the proficiency of English required to cogently explain her point, weak or inaccurate that point may be. She often cuts short her sentence and waits in anticipation for her co-caster to "rescue" her with a follow-up dialogue (while she does not do so for her co-caster herself). Her tendency to do this leads to a lack of continuity in the commentary, or even where there is continuity, it is often awkward or forced.
You have managed to vocalise my thoughts much better than I have, and have reminded me of the other thing that tends to regularily take me out of the game during a match. Oftentimes when she ignores her co-commentator to interject something unrelated, she will then immediately shift vocal tone back into play-by-play mode, and repeat what the co-commentator had said to her. Even stranger sometimes she just gives awkward silence in response, and then parrots back what the other person said which distracts me even harder.
Edit: adso, part of the problem is she COULDN'T show her passion. She had to restrain herself because she believes (and it may be true) that when she becomes too excited her accent slips and is too hard to understand. As a result we might not have ever really got to really known her.
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EPT
eu viewers disagree ...who cares? i do! ... but that's besides my point... 
)
