Here is an example of the worker AI I was speaking of. Watch as the SCV made from the CC goes directly to the open mineral patch instead of the rallied mineral patch. It does not do any "bouncing" off of the rallied mineral patch. This is not live. This is a new change in the PTR.
Well, this is only minor, but it was very noticeable to me. Not to mention, I haven't really heard any talk about it (correct me if I'm wrong).
The workers in the PTR now automatically go to the closest open mineral patch (straight from the CC). For example, at the beginning of a game, if you rally all of your workers (from your hatchery/CC/nexus) to the same mineral patch, they will normally go to that mineral patch, and then (if there is another worker already there) they will navigate to an open one. However, now the workers automatically navigate to a near, open mineral patch directly from the base. No more bouncing in the very early game. (I know this is very minor.)
Also, if there are no near, open mineral patches, they will stay on the one they were rallied to, whereas you previously would have had to "force" it to work on that patch by clicking it many times. Previously, they would waste mining time by bouncing from the assigned mineral patch to an open one on the complete other side. It simply feels much smoother now, and it was easily noticed by me because I always perfect my mining workers.
I retested the stuff in the spoiler, and it seems to not be the case. It may happen in some circumstances, but I'm not really sure.
I know this is an extremely tiny change, but I thought some people would find it interesting.
EDIT: I tested the "force" / bouncing around further, and it seems to work the same as it always has (at least some of the time). The SCVs will still go to an occupied mineral patch and then 'bounce' to another. (However, there may have been a slight change here that fixes this in only some cases, which was what may have led me to believe it was completely fixed.)
Also, I just wanted to clarify that worker splits remain unchanged. The only thing that has changed is the pathing of the SCV immediately after is is created from the CC. I am currently uploading a video of how it looks!
I believe this has been the case for a while, now, actually. I'll check now but I'm pretty sure workers already automatically go to a nearby open patch if it's close enough...
Edit: Just tested and confirmed that this is the case on live. If memory serves it's been like this for... a long time.
Edit edit: I would post a video if I could record one, but what the OP describes does happen on live. Unless it's been tweaked somehow, this is not new.
On February 28 2011 08:46 etheovermind wrote: Wow so they even take out worker splits. This game is easier now than it was 4 months ago. O.o
I don't know about you but I don't think anyone ever lost or won a game because he split his workers. The gain was always not much more than five minerals a second or two earlier. This is hardly a case of dumbing the game down.
On February 28 2011 08:46 etheovermind wrote: Wow so they even take out worker splits. This game is easier now than it was 4 months ago. O.o
I don't know about you but I don't think anyone ever lost or won a game because he split his workers. The gain was always not much more than five minerals a second or two earlier. This is hardly a case of dumbing the game down.
If it doesn't have any impact why would they change it?
they did this on previous versions too, it was quite minor because I want them to double up on the short distances before going to a far one. You'll have to post a vid so we can see if there is any difference on the PTR since some of us are from other regions
This isn't new. They don't always go straight to the empty one, but it has happend since release. Don't know the exact conditions for it to happen though, but yer...
On February 28 2011 08:46 etheovermind wrote: Wow so they even take out worker splits. This game is easier now than it was 4 months ago. O.o
I don't know about you but I don't think anyone ever lost or won a game because he split his workers. The gain was always not much more than five minerals a second or two earlier. This is hardly a case of dumbing the game down.
If it doesn't have any impact why would they change it?
Don't ask me, they changed the league icons as well without there being any real reason for it. Guess it looks prettier when you're a lower league player casually observing your base, hell, I don't know
On February 28 2011 08:46 etheovermind wrote: Wow so they even take out worker splits. This game is easier now than it was 4 months ago. O.o
Why don't you take that giant brain of yours and use it to win with superior gameplay when the game has actually started? I mean if you're so good you can split workers then the midgame must be a cakewalk right?
It's a faux skill test, it serves no purpose other than showing off mindless hand speed. What really should win you a game are decisions, not hand speed, and Blizzard seems to agree.
On February 28 2011 08:46 etheovermind wrote: Wow so they even take out worker splits. This game is easier now than it was 4 months ago. O.o
During the beta it was shown that splitting workers actually had absolutly no effect or gain(And sometimes even a loss) in minerals over letting the game autosplit.
That was about a year ago.
OT: I actually noticed this on live...not something that I jumped up and was like "HEY IT CHANGED!", but I observed that all the mineral patches were filled before I could start to double up.
On February 28 2011 08:46 etheovermind wrote: Wow so they even take out worker splits. This game is easier now than it was 4 months ago. O.o
During the beta it was shown that splitting workers actually had absolutly no effect or gain(And sometimes even a loss) in minerals over letting the game autosplit.
Its not about easy or not. The early game is just so damn boring because you have nothing to do, even worker harrass is usually quite easily defendable.
On February 28 2011 08:46 etheovermind wrote: Wow so they even take out worker splits. This game is easier now than it was 4 months ago. O.o
Sorry if I didn't explain it well enough, but they did not take out worker splits. I'm talking about the workers that come directly out of the main hatchery / CC / nexus. I will try to post s video, but like I said, it is extremely minor.
On February 28 2011 08:46 etheovermind wrote: Wow so they even take out worker splits. This game is easier now than it was 4 months ago. O.o
I don't know about you but I don't think anyone ever lost or won a game because he split his workers. The gain was always not much more than five minerals a second or two earlier. This is hardly a case of dumbing the game down.
If it doesn't have any impact why would they change it?
I'm pretty sure they didnt change anything. Why are you looking for a reason to be upset?
On February 28 2011 08:46 etheovermind wrote: Wow so they even take out worker splits. This game is easier now than it was 4 months ago. O.o
Worker splits are probably the most overrated thing in this game anyway - It may look good, but I bet that 90% of the people practicing on their workersplits will gain loads more by practicing other things, like macro.
On February 28 2011 09:23 Dromar wrote: I noticed this happen in the live version a couple days ago, so it's not new with this PTR.
I just tested it in the live version, and my SCV did the same thing it always has, which is float over to the directed mineral patch (which had another worker), touch that patch, and then bounce to the directly adjacent one (which was open). So, this is a new change in worker AI in the PTR for sure.
On February 28 2011 08:46 etheovermind wrote: Wow so they even take out worker splits. This game is easier now than it was 4 months ago. O.o
How is a change that affects both players in the same way will make the game easier?
That's silly, if you could right click the Make SCV button to automate it both players in a TvT would have the same advantage, but the game would still be easier.
Here is an example of the worker AI I was speaking of. Watch as the SCV made from the CC goes directly to the open mineral patch instead of the rallied mineral patch. It does not do any "bouncing" off of the rallied mineral patch. This is not live. This is a new change in the PTR.
Here is an example of the worker AI I was speaking of. Watch as the SCV made from the CC goes directly to the open mineral patch instead of the rallied mineral patch. It does not do any "bouncing" off of the rallied mineral patch. This is not live. This is a new change in the PTR.
Interesting.
Is it only because the next mineral patch over was open, or for example if you continued to rally to the far right, would it automatically go to the far left patch? (ie from one side to the other, or just adjacent)
Here is an example of the worker AI I was speaking of. Watch as the SCV made from the CC goes directly to the open mineral patch instead of the rallied mineral patch. It does not do any "bouncing" off of the rallied mineral patch. This is not live. This is a new change in the PTR.
Interesting.
Is it only because the next mineral patch over was open, or for example if you continued to rally to the far right, would it automatically go to the far left patch? (ie from one side to the other, or just adjacent)
I don't completely understand how it works yet, as I haven't done enough tests. However, I believe that it doesn't do it for farther away mineral patches. For me, it has only done this for patches within 1 or 2 in distance.
On February 28 2011 08:46 etheovermind wrote: Wow so they even take out worker splits. This game is easier now than it was 4 months ago. O.o
I don't know about you but I don't think anyone ever lost or won a game because he split his workers. The gain was always not much more than five minerals a second or two earlier. This is hardly a case of dumbing the game down.
If it doesn't have any impact why would they change it?
so there is less mundane clicking, more friendly chit-chat/banter or time to grab a drink or something?
On February 28 2011 13:05 KevinIX wrote: It is like this on live. I remember seeing it the first time a while back and thinking that it was pretty neat.
On February 28 2011 13:12 SiguR wrote: This isn't new
I tested this on live and it does not do the same thing. This only works in the PTR. You must be mistaken.
Its not like this on live... Currently on live... right now... building probes... trying to force rally them to a patch that is occupied, they go to occupied patch and then find an open one.... in the video they just go to the open one automatically. I hope it doesn't make it too difficult for pairing. good find OP thank you.
This is the same as on live. They do it if the patch they're rallied to is next to an open one. I thought it has always been that way. It doesn't make that much of a difference, unless you're manually microing your workers to the nearest patches and it's a minor annoyance at best.
On February 28 2011 13:34 Jayrod wrote: Its not like this on live... Currently on live... right now... building probes... trying to force rally them to a patch that is occupied, they go to occupied patch and then find an open one.... in the video they just go to the open one automatically. I hope it doesn't make it too difficult for pairing. good find OP thank you.
That's probably what the point of it would be, to make pairing harder and always manual. Although I believe it's always been like this if the adjacent patch is open.
On February 28 2011 13:51 Leeto wrote: This is the same as on live. They do it if the patch they're rallied to is next to an open one. I thought it has always been that way. It doesn't make that much of a difference, unless you're manually microing your workers to the nearest patches and it's a minor annoyance at best.
On live, the worker has always moved over to the adjacent open patch. Yes. However, now the worker automatically goes to that open patch without moving over. On live, it would go to the rallied patch, touch it, and then move to the open one. Now (in the PTR), it just automatically goes straight to the open one.
And yes, it doesn't make much of a difference. It's just interesting. =)
On February 28 2011 13:58 Djzapz wrote: On live it does that. If the patch that's free is close, it'll go there directly without bouncing.
I seriously went and tested it a couple of hours ago, and it did not do what you are saying. Check it out again. I believe you are mistaken.
He's not, as far as i am aware. It might be inconsistent, but I know it definitely does rerout directly out of the CC/nexus/hatch before getting to the minerals sometimes. It has seemed pretty random at times. Maybe they simply made it more consistent.
On February 28 2011 08:46 etheovermind wrote: Wow so they even take out worker splits. This game is easier now than it was 4 months ago. O.o
Why don't you take that giant brain of yours and use it to win with superior gameplay when the game has actually started? I mean if you're so good you can split workers then the midgame must be a cakewalk right?
It's a faux skill test, it serves no purpose other than showing off mindless hand speed. What really should win you a game are decisions, not hand speed, and Blizzard seems to agree.
Isn't hand speed naturally part of "superior gameplay" as it applies to Starcraft? I think one of the greatest things about Starcraft has always been the need to be able to think well, but also be able to translate those thoughts into in-game commands fast enough. I don't understand this war on "mundane" or "mindless" clicking and hand speed as if the necessity for physical dexterity in the game is somehow a bad thing. I've always liked how it wasn't so much major decisions, but rather the sum of little differences over time that really showed the difference between pros and amateurs.
I suppose this is a personal thing, but I don't believe this is a "faux skill test". It's just another one of the small nuances in gameplay that have been removed for no good reason. I agree with being able to rally workers to mineral fields, but I feel that there should always be room for a player to spend a little extra effort to improve on anything that is automated to make it more efficient. Certainly having the APM to spend time making sure your workers are on separate patches doesn't (and shouldn't) define your skill at the game overall, but I view it as a useful positive thing in the game because it rewards the players for putting extra effort into otherwise small details that others might not think about.
Basically, when the rallied mineral patch is full and the worker coming out would run into the patch that would be mined and would have to wait, the AI will move to an empty patch coming straight out. It can be a bit inconsistent, much like how sometimes a worker won't even try to change patches even if it has to wait to start mining.
EDIT: Actually it won't even be an empty patch necessarily, just one that isn't the rallied one.
On February 28 2011 14:09 RageOverdose wrote: Not new.
Basically, when the rallied mineral patch is full and the worker coming out would run into the patch that would be mined and would have to wait, the AI will move to an empty patch coming straight out. It can be a bit inconsistent, much like how sometimes a worker won't even try to change patches even if it has to wait to start mining.
EDIT: Actually it won't even be an empty patch necessarily, just one that isn't the rallied one.
in my experience it has always been like this. depending on certain circumstances the worker will avoid the rallied patch altogether and go to a free one that is close by.
On February 28 2011 14:09 RageOverdose wrote: Not new.
Basically, when the rallied mineral patch is full and the worker coming out would run into the patch that would be mined and would have to wait, the AI will move to an empty patch coming straight out. It can be a bit inconsistent, much like how sometimes a worker won't even try to change patches even if it has to wait to start mining.
EDIT: Actually it won't even be an empty patch necessarily, just one that isn't the rallied one.
see that completely disproves this whole post
I'm not going to be bothered to do OP's research documentation for him.
If you don't believe that I just tested it to make sure my post wasn't full of shit, that's fine but I've noticed this since Beta.
Based on the responses it borderlines common knowledge. So if the OP really wants to prove his discovery is new then he needs to make a video of the current live setting under very similar conditions.
On February 28 2011 15:03 NrG.ZaM wrote: It's been like this since beta, just made a quick video showing what patch I'm running and this "new worker AI"
On February 28 2011 15:03 NrG.ZaM wrote: It's been like this since beta, just made a quick video showing what patch I'm running and this "new worker AI"
I stand corrected. I swear I tested this and did not receive the same result.
Maybe it used to be more inconsistent than it is now? I don't think I will be testing that, however.
I don't know exactly how it is on PTR, but it has always seemed rather random when he goes straight for empty patch and when he bounces of the rallied patch. I did some testing of this either in beta or early release, trying to figure out under which condition it happens, but I didn't get any nearer, partly since making the worker not go for the rallied patch was so random an rarely happened.
If it is consistently avoiding the rallied one now, some change they did, might've effected the algorithm that handles that decision making, but I very much doubt it was a conscious change on blizzards half in the least.
On February 28 2011 14:05 worked13 wrote: There's also a new change that alerts the player when a MULE/Inject/Chrono has completed... this game is becoming increasingly easier.
You know that this will not decrease the skill ceiling right? So in the end, there's no point in whining...
I'm actually surprised how many people never noticed their worker going to the wrong patch. I noticed this back when we had so many arguments over whether sending all 6 to the same patch or splitting them was better. It has always been that way.
Also, rallying probes to certain patches isn't a skill I care too much about. Since observers hardly bounce between the bases at the beginning to show both players skillfully mining and making predictions for the match based on that, I don't think anyone was ever impressed by that. It was super important in BW, but it's a non-issue in SC2.
yeah... the rallied worker will always go to an unoccupied mineral patch, but if at the same time another worker goes to the same patch and gets there first, the rallied worker will bounce.
it has always been like this, i don't see anything new in the video. although maybe it has been optimized a lil bit, i haven't tested it, but the video shows nothing different than usual.
so in my observations it goes like this:
if a worker (rallied or not) is order to mine a patch that's currently occupied it will find another free one directly (without bouncing). but sometimes another worker will get there first so the other one will bounce. so this may explain the confusion as to why sometimes workers bounce and sometimes go straight to a free one.
EPT
