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Delta Quadrant being the obvious one.
But what about the other two?
Backwater Gulch: The giant ramp is good for Zerg. The rocks can be good or bad for Zerg. It allows them to be more aggressive but Protoss/Terran don't have to move as far to defend (compared to Blistering Sands). Third seems really hard to take.
Pic: + Show Spoiler +
Slag Pits: The close position spawns seem about as close as Delta Quadrant. The natural/ramp position is similar to Delta (SCV/Marine all in can skip your natural and go for the main). Then there is a good spot between bases for tank drops. Though, if you don't spawn close, it seems like a really solid map for Zerg.
Pic: + Show Spoiler +
Shattered Temples: Seems solid. Similar to Lost Temple but without the cliff abuse. Only problem I see is close positions, but that's nothing new compared to Lost Temple.
Pic: + Show Spoiler +
Typhoon Peaks: This map seems really weird. The multiple entrances seem like it'd be hard to defend against Hellions. Except for that, the map is full of narrow passages which seem like it'd make engaging a Toss/Terran army mid-late game hard. But it's a big map, which is something Zerg players always like.
Pic: + Show Spoiler +
Metalopolis: Perhaps this map might be veto-worthy now since close position spawns are extremely hard to handle and the map pool isn't as bad?
Removed Maps:
+ Show Spoiler +(4) Lost Temple -> (4)Shattered Temple
(2) Steppes of War
(2) Jungle Basin
(4) Shakuras Plateau
(2) Blistering Sands -> (4) Backwater Gulch
I hope my brief map analysis is accurate enough. What do you guys think?
Thanks to MrRiceWife for map images and info.
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Right now I have DQ vetod and am strongly considering Backwater Gulch...a 4gate defense right now appears to be very very hard. I havn't played 2 Shattered and Typhoon yet. Additionally Slag I have only played ZvZ which doesn't give the best idea of map balance.
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I'm only going to veto DQ, I'm really happy with all of the new maps and the stuff in the PTR, really amazing step in the right direction by Blizzard.
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DQ, Typhoon, and Backwater.
Typhoon looks bad for zerg because of all the narrow paths for mid-late game, and doesn't look like there's a 3rd that's easy to defend. At least early game does not look like a problem though.
Backwater gulch is terrible for zerg because the natural is so far away from the main. It makes queen transfers and spine transfers extremely slow or unviable. The biggest issue with the huge natural-main separation is that spines and queens become completely useless to defend, which means they'll need lots of lings/roaches exclusively.
Slag pits isn't bad in my opinion. It's maybe a bit small but that's not a big issue.
Shattered temple obviously a big improvement over lost temple. No significant issues that I see.
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sick zerg buff this patch, Typhoon is the one im most concerned about playing on (lowish masters), but Im thinking that with the narrow corridors everywhere that infesters and then broodlords is going to be nasty as hell, so Im trying to work out a decent way to build up to that in each matchup for this map alone
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My vetos are now :
- Delta Quadrant for obvious reasons.
- Backwater Gulch : I tested it when it was on PTR. Defending a 4gate push is so hard. Your main ramp can be forcefielded while you lose your natural expansion..
I can't imagine defending an hellion harass followed by banshees on this map, the distance between your main and your natural is HUGE, which means that you need a lot of creep tumors and time. You can't simply run arround from one base to another with your queens.
- Slag Pits : The 3rd base is poorly designed. The map is not that big. I simply don't like it.
I played a ton on Shattered Temple, I like it a lot but the close position is harder to defend (the Xel'Naga on Lost Temple helped).
I don't know much about Typhon Peaks, but it looks "OK".
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DQ and Typhoon for sure. As for the 3rd map, its kind of hard to say at this point. I will probably switch my veto between Slag Pit and Backwater Gulch a few times. As mentioned by other posters, the distance between main and natural is a pretty big issue for defending drops, hellions and moving/positioning queens and spinecrawlers. This is mostly speculation at this point, as I have not faced these circumstances on the new maps yet. Slag Pits looks far too small and I personally don't like the expansion distribution. Seems people have the same ideas, for the most part.
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Typhoon is actually pretty good for zerg in overall balance out of all the new maps.
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SIGH. zerg QQ
User was warned for this post
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Delta Quadrant, Backwater
those two without a doubt
for the third, probably Slag
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Definitely DQ, Backwater Gulch, and maybe Slag Pits.
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Do you think Gulch would be viable if it was 2 player? Nvm..
I keep looking at it in hopes to find something nice for zerg.. It looks like TVP only.
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On February 26 2011 13:14 WLV wrote:
SIGH. zerg QQ
User was warned for this post
It's not Zerg QQ, it's discussion about which maps they are most disadvantaged at.
I've only played Typhon peaks so far. I can see this map being good for mid-game 3-base pushes. Big middle and easy to defend initial 3 bases. Grabbing and defending a fourth can be really awkward though.
Looking at the other maps, slag pits is basically a 2-base fest.
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Before the patch, possibly Metal would be a ban, but now Stim will take 30 seconds longer, so Metal against T shouldn't be so bad (all-ins etc. will still be hard ofc, but there aren't really any variants so it should be easy to practice against, same with 4gate although to a lesser extent).
Like the new LT though, but yeah the distances are a bit too close. I think if they took out close-positions on Metal and LT then they would be really great (air and cross only).
But ofc they have to cater to the more casual crowd too, and anyways many people like to rush so the close-distance thing is for them I guess.
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Overall the new maps are terrible /thread.
I got rid of Backwater, and DQ
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On February 26 2011 14:06 DrBoo wrote:
Overall the new maps are terrible /thread.
I got rid of Backwater, and DQ
What are you talking about the new map pool was 1000x better for Zerg than the previous one.
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On February 26 2011 14:17 Saracen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 14:06 DrBoo wrote:
Overall the new maps are terrible /thread.
I got rid of Backwater, and DQ What are you talking about the new map pool was 1000x better for Zerg than the previous one.
I wouldn't say a 1000x better. But I wouldn't say terrible. We still have to deal with close position attacks just as much as before, but at least now the maps beyond that are more balanced.
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On February 26 2011 14:05 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Before the patch, possibly Metal would be a ban, but now Stim will take 30 seconds longer, so Metal against T shouldn't be so bad (all-ins etc. will still be hard ofc, but there aren't really any variants so it should be easy to practice against, same with 4gate although to a lesser extent).
Like the new LT though, but yeah the distances are a bit too close. I think if they took out close-positions on Metal and LT then they would be really great (air and cross only).
But ofc they have to cater to the more casual crowd too, and anyways many people like to rush so the close-distance thing is for them I guess.
I could be wrong but as a T player, I never really abused stim to get an early advantage.. By the time stim comes around, I never felt like, oh man zerg isn't going to have a chance. I don't ever remember winning a game straight up with stim marines anyhow.
I'm pretty sure the stim nerf was directed towards toss. Again, as a T player... I agree with that nerf because I won high level diamond ladder games ez pz with early stim against protoss.
And no, if you mean 'casual' as in low level, and 'they' as in blizzard... really they don't have to cater to the usual crowd.. and they certainly do not cater to them in anyway. Every patch is always designed around high level play.
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I vetoed DQ, Slag Pits, and Backwater Gulch.
DQ is vetoed for obvious reasons. Slag Pits was a very awkward map on the PTR and just has classic Blizzard map design written all over it. The natural is very wide and hard to defend, there are few bases available for expanding, and the third base is difficult to take and defend. This map does little to improve upon Zerg's situation.
Backwater Gulch has a very unnaturally placed natural that leaves Zerg very vulnerable early on. If you use a build order that calls for building your second queen from your main like I do, getting that second queen to your natural takes FOREVER. Likewise, your queens can't move comfortably between bases for defense until you connect with creep (about 3 or 4 tumors if I recall).
I like the new LT - I didn't veto the old one because it was a good map for ZvP and ZvZ, so this new one is a big improvement overall for me. The other new map I had decent games with on the PTR, but it's not perfect for sure. I'm not a big fan of the destructible rocks and tricky-to-defend expansions, but it's a huge step above Steppes and Jungle Basin.
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Backwater Gulch and slag pits seem to have so close positions when they aren't cross... or maybe it's just me. it seems even closer than metalopolis close position if i look it now. Then again i haven't played the maps so i don't know.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/lBJvG.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/WinUa.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/54P9w.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/CUC2Z.png)
