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On February 27 2011 03:28 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 03:15 Mikelius wrote:On February 27 2011 03:14 Existor wrote:On February 27 2011 03:07 Zuxo wrote:
Ghost:Spawns with emp and 50 energy and can upgrade moebius reactor(+25 energy when spawns). Emp outrange feedback. Can cloak, snipe and nuke.
Templar: Spawns with feedback and 50 energy. Can get storm(200/200) but not amulet(+25 energy) and therefor has to wait 44 sec to storm.
Ghost>Templar (as before but now even more).
Mass colossi begin! Ghost - 150/150 cost Templar - 50/150 cost, so you can drop one zealot with him EMP = up to half the life of a protoss army Snipe (2x) = dead Zealot or HT Ghost = faster than Zealot Ghost = can shoot and does not depend exclusively on energy. Storm = up to 100% of the life of a terran army. Storm outranges EMP. I'm not saying that this (test region) balance change is good. What I do know though is that when a protoss goes colossi I'm like 'ok cool I can deal with this'. But when I see HT's it's a little more 'oh FUCK I'm so fucking dead'.
Do you try to kill Ghosts with Storms or...? I don't understand O_o
Oh and you forgot
2 energyless HT's = Archon
Not saying archons are great, but at least be a little bit objective.
Zealot change is probably good but I already have a fair amount of trouble with mass chargelots and have never held that they were underpowered. Mostly because they DON'T DIE.
Do you kite them at all?
Battlecruiser speed change is weird; I'd be surprised if suddenly BC's are drafted into common use.
I remember that there was a PvT game that used BCs as a surprise tech.
I don't know what about TvZ but TvT has a use for BCs, haven't you seen them used in TvT?
Infestor change is good, we'll see if it's good enough but it's not bad.
Bunker change again el oh el Blizzard.
Stim change whatever.
Archon toilet nerfed HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA that's hilarious. I'd like to have been in that meeting.
'Gentlemen I have called you hear to discuss a game breaking technique known as...the Archon Toilet. Literally several people have lost to this in the past few months, and it's clearly ridiculous.'
Or they thought they need the game to look more natural, notice they removed Viking flower too but I wonder what air units do now when set on a such a narrow Patrol?
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I'm convinced Blizzard is developing this game for 12 year olds.
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On February 27 2011 03:07 Prinate wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 02:59 JDM.s2000 wrote:
Has nobody talked about HT nerf vs zerg muta ling mass spine?
Also how come my PTR keeps updating and wont finish. Have you run SC2 and gotten the latest patch (w/ the new maps)? My blizzard updater kept looping as well, then I went to run SC2, got the live server patch (which also updates the blizzard updater). Now I just get a window saying the PTR is down, but it's not looping/trying to install anymore. Can anyone who didn't have issues with the installer confirm PTR is down at the moment?
I had the same problem yesterday. The fix is to go into your starcraft II folder and delete/move the folder "test" and running the PTR update again. I guess that by trying to download the 1.3 patch before getting the updater patch caused you to download a faulty copy of it.
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There are a lot of uneducated posts here from both Protoss and Terrans.
I hope Casual gamers reading some of these don't take them seriously. The game is close to being balanced.
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On February 27 2011 03:35 axellerate wrote:
Firstly, that requires a pylon OR warp prism. Extremely easy to scout and deny.
How are warp prism drops easy to scout? All you see tech wise is the robo they're getting anyway. and am I meant to put up vikings around my base just in case?
(p.s. sensor towers yes, but no one builds those 
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On February 27 2011 03:15 Mikelius wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 03:14 Existor wrote:On February 27 2011 03:07 Zuxo wrote:
Ghost:Spawns with emp and 50 energy and can upgrade moebius reactor(+25 energy when spawns). Emp outrange feedback. Can cloak, snipe and nuke.
Templar: Spawns with feedback and 50 energy. Can get storm(200/200) but not amulet(+25 energy) and therefor has to wait 44 sec to storm.
Ghost>Templar (as before but now even more).
Mass colossi begin! Ghost - 150/150 cost Templar - 50/150 cost, so you can drop one zealot with him EMP = up to half the life of a protoss army Snipe (2x) = dead Zealot or HT Ghost = faster than Zealot Ghost = can shoot and does not depend exclusively on energy.
Pre-Nerf:
Templar: ~2 secs build time (Warpgate), in 0 seconds has storm and feedback and spawns in power field.
Ghost: 40 second build time for 75 energy + Travel time to location.
Post-Nerf:
Templar: ~2 secs build time (Warpgate), in 0 seconds has feedback and spawns in power field.
Ghost: 40 second build time for 75 energy + Travel time to location.
Taking into account that EMP can't actually kill an army (meaning the ability cannot reduce the enemy's total DPS output, contrary to storm), the nerf was needed. Nothing is more annoying then a few templar spawning after you win a battle and storming your bio ball into nothing. Not to mention they can STILL deny drops using feedback.
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On February 27 2011 03:40 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 03:35 axellerate wrote:
Firstly, that requires a pylon OR warp prism. Extremely easy to scout and deny. How are warp prism drops easy to scout? All you see tech wise is the robo they're getting anyway. and am I meant to put up vikings around my base just in case? (p.s. sensor towers yes, but no one builds those
The traditional way, look. lol.
How do we scout medivac drops? Whens the last time you saw 2 hts destroy a Nexus?
The dps of 8 marines is insanely good... lol
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On February 27 2011 03:32 dump wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 02:49 Terr wrote:On February 27 2011 02:44 dump wrote:On February 27 2011 02:42 Terr wrote:
Most pros seem to be really happy about the balance changes. And if they are happy I'm happy as well. That's all I got to say. [Citation needed] http://www.justin.tv/rootcatz/b/280412952Starts at about 14 min. Somebody posted it earlier in this thread. "Can you move your own mothership into a vortex?" Yeah I have respect for progamers and all, but I don't think they see motherships enough to be complaining about it at all. The thing is that archon toilet is still really rare. In practical terms, the only thing that removing archon toilet does is to reduce the game's entertainment value. On storm: "I think it's a good change." " Really?" "Cuz warp in a templar is really quite too strong if terran's not paying attention and they missed a warp-in." "It's only going to help, definitely, I mean as a terran I love that, of course." "If you just mess up a little bit you'll lose your mutas [to a warped-in templar]." "This makes it so that terran can attack protoss, but I'm not sure protoss can attack terran now." "I don't know." "I think it'll be fine." "Warp prism is kinda underused as it is. I don't know." It's not as clear-cut even amongst them.
So...... what? Overall they were pretty positive about the changes.
And about the Mothership thing, I think it was said by someone who isn't Protoss, so that's understandable.
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From my Terran point of view:
Stim/Bunker nerfs were required, although i'm not really sure the research time was the good thing to nerf on stim.
Templar nerf seems a bit too much, maybe they sould have reduced the energy given by amulet (like only 15 more energy) and reduced research cost, or as said previously, increased storm duration while keeping the same damage (DPS nerf, total damage stays the same)
Fungal change, i dont really know how it will play out. Infestors wont be able to delay pushes as well as before, but fungal will be scarier damage wise.
(and Larva timer reminder is a GOOD thing for low level zerg :D )
Also i'm pretty upset by the Viking Flower nerf, it didnt really harm balance and was a fun thing to do.
Same thing for the archon toilet, even it may have been a dangerous thing balance wise, there was prolly another solution than complete removal.
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I wish they added some explanation to the balance changes they do.
Right now I feel they do changes and community is like WTF.
I'm not arguing that the changes are bad, but it would be good and fun to know the reasoning behind buffs/nerfs.
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On February 27 2011 03:40 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 03:35 axellerate wrote:
Firstly, that requires a pylon OR warp prism. Extremely easy to scout and deny. How are warp prism drops easy to scout? All you see tech wise is the robo they're getting anyway. and am I meant to put up vikings around my base just in case? (p.s. sensor towers yes, but no one builds those
You should name yourself "no one" then and start making them
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"- Fixed an issue to prevent force fields from pushing units during construction."
If this means that sometimes units weren't pushed away by forcefields and they fixed it, cool.
If this means that forcefields aren't going to push units anymore, then this patch will be physically wounding for me. I generally dislike anyone who race-changes based on patch notes, but this would be the single most damning change against Protoss early game since the beta sentry nerf.
Let's hope I'm being silly.
EDIT: "- Workers gathering minerals can no longer continue to harvest minerals if they are pushed away by a force field."
Ok, yeah, I was being silly. Don't scare me like that Blizzard!
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why are the new maps not on the PTR?
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On February 27 2011 03:35 axellerate wrote:
There was no issues with warp in storm. A high templar is so insanely slow and expensive, that it was necessary.
And then the terran guy (gretorp in CatZ channel) says: Well 2 hts can warp in and kill your whole mineral line.
Firstly, that requires a pylon OR warp prism. Extremely easy to scout and deny. Secondly, thats a 100 + 50/150 + 50/150 investment (200-300). If you look at the terran harass unit, the marine, 8 marines can kill a nexus and every probe EXTREMELY quickly. HT's were a way to deal with that kind of harass late game. If I was terran, i would throw away 400 minerals for a chance you end the game. Mules make this harass more accessible. The only problem is player apm in order to sustain the harass.
Also worth mentioning, if terran would take another tech path, such as mech, there is no problem with protoss tier 3 units owning terran tier 1 units.
Are you really sure that marines are the terran harass unit, and that they can kill 30 probes and a Nexus "EXTREMELY quickly"?
A protoss expanding without cannons, and watching a Nexus being destroyed and not warping in some zealots is a really strange idea for me.
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I seriously was considering switching after the last patch. Now I am switching for sure. High templar were my favorite unit. I guess I'll learn to love ghosts.
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On February 27 2011 03:44 Treehead wrote:
"- Fixed an issue to prevent force fields from pushing units during construction."
If this means that sometimes units weren't pushed away by forcefields and they fixed it, cool.
If this means that forcefields aren't going to push units anymore, then this patch will be physically wounding for me. I generally dislike anyone who race-changes based on patch notes, but this would be the single most damning change against Protoss early game since the beta sentry nerf.
Let's hope I'm being silly.
EDIT: "- Workers gathering minerals can no longer continue to harvest minerals if they are pushed away by a force field."
Ok, yeah, I was being silly. Don't scare me like that Blizzard!
I think,not sure, fixes the issue we had with forcefields killing marines inside a Bunker, hope I'm not being silly too...
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I don't understand why Blizzard seems adamant in nerfing Fungal Growth in some way. The last PTR had it not affecting air, and now they want to change it to a missile. Why? EMP is instant, and deals 100 damage to Protoss armies.
I don't understand Blizzard's logic.
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On February 27 2011 03:47 Kamikazess wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 03:35 axellerate wrote:
There was no issues with warp in storm. A high templar is so insanely slow and expensive, that it was necessary.
And then the terran guy (gretorp in CatZ channel) says: Well 2 hts can warp in and kill your whole mineral line.
Firstly, that requires a pylon OR warp prism. Extremely easy to scout and deny. Secondly, thats a 100 + 50/150 + 50/150 investment (200-300). If you look at the terran harass unit, the marine, 8 marines can kill a nexus and every probe EXTREMELY quickly. HT's were a way to deal with that kind of harass late game. If I was terran, i would throw away 400 minerals for a chance you end the game. Mules make this harass more accessible. The only problem is player apm in order to sustain the harass.
Also worth mentioning, if terran would take another tech path, such as mech, there is no problem with protoss tier 3 units owning terran tier 1 units. Are you really sure that marines are the terran harass unit, and that they can kill 30 probes and a Nexus "EXTREMELY quickly"? A protoss expanding without cannons, and watching a Nexus being destroyed and not warping in some zealots is a really strange idea for me.
That harass comes early game man... Its not just a late game tactic...Its cheap also.
Stim marines have the highest DPS in starcraft 2 by the way.
It seems like its a no brainer... I can't understand counter arguments towards it lol.
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I am truly disappointed in the quality of posts from TL elitists. I expected great debates about the changes, but all I see is people spewing their bias garbage that is in the majority far from correct.
I am seeing things like "storm has farther range than EMP".
"WG only takes 2 seconds to warp HTs in" and completely disregarding the CD.
"Stim marines have the highest DPS in starcraft 2 by the way."
And that's just on this page.
People do your research so you don't sound so stupid and can actually contribute to a meaningful discussion on the topic.
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My PTR launcher keeps updating over and over and over and over again.
Any help?
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EPT
