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On February 27 2011 03:43 Terr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 03:32 dump wrote:On February 27 2011 02:49 Terr wrote:On February 27 2011 02:44 dump wrote:On February 27 2011 02:42 Terr wrote:
Most pros seem to be really happy about the balance changes. And if they are happy I'm happy as well. That's all I got to say. [Citation needed] http://www.justin.tv/rootcatz/b/280412952Starts at about 14 min. Somebody posted it earlier in this thread. "Can you move your own mothership into a vortex?" Yeah I have respect for progamers and all, but I don't think they see motherships enough to be complaining about it at all. The thing is that archon toilet is still really rare. In practical terms, the only thing that removing archon toilet does is to reduce the game's entertainment value. On storm: "I think it's a good change." " Really?" "Cuz warp in a templar is really quite too strong if terran's not paying attention and they missed a warp-in." "It's only going to help, definitely, I mean as a terran I love that, of course." "If you just mess up a little bit you'll lose your mutas [to a warped-in templar]." "This makes it so that terran can attack protoss, but I'm not sure protoss can attack terran now." "I don't know." "I think it'll be fine." "Warp prism is kinda underused as it is. I don't know." It's not as clear-cut even amongst them. So...... what? Overall they were pretty positive about the changes. And about the Mothership thing, I think it was said by someone who isn't Protoss, so that's understandable.
It's positive to the terran players.
Not knowing the mothership mechanics should not be understandable to anyone who has a complaint about it.
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I havent read this entire thread, so excuse me if this has already been answered but.
what could be the reason for:
" Loss counts are no longer displayed in Profile and Ladder pages for players below Master League."
i've been trying to wrap my brain around it but seriously cant find a good reason for it.
can anyone educate me?
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On February 27 2011 04:02 EerieNewb wrote:
I think the bad thing about Amulet nerf is the thing that after a big PvT battle when T wins the battle his "MM leftovers" can potentially snipe down a nexus/kill a lot of probes at a nearby expansion.
It's crucial to have HTs warping in a defensive measure (this role could be played by photon cannons, but seriously, how many can you plant). P isn't able to attack a repaired planetary fortess with his "leftovers" and an orbital can float away until the heat is over. In that matter HTs serve a role similar to defensive tanks, not letting small groups of units do incredible damage lategame.
I think defensive HT's are a fucking awful idea against small numbers of units. Small groups of marauders can just stim out of storms and kill ht's, if I had the replay still I'd show you but recently a guy tried to defend his far away expansion from my 5 marauders by warping in HT's; it was SO. EASY. And I got the nexus, and about 6 free HT kills (300/900 resources).
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On February 27 2011 04:31 Artimo wrote:
I havent read this entire thread, so excuse me if this has already been answered but.
what could be the reason for:
" Loss counts are no longer displayed in Profile and Ladder pages for players below Master League."
i've been trying to wrap my brain around it but seriously cant find a good reason for it.
can anyone educate me?
It's so the system is more encouraging and doesn't punish you as much. The idea it to help keep lesser skilled players motivated so they keep playing and grow into high level starcraft 2 fans.
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On February 27 2011 04:32 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 04:31 Artimo wrote:
I havent read this entire thread, so excuse me if this has already been answered but.
what could be the reason for:
" Loss counts are no longer displayed in Profile and Ladder pages for players below Master League."
i've been trying to wrap my brain around it but seriously cant find a good reason for it.
can anyone educate me? It's so the system is more encouraging and doesn't punish you as much. The idea it to help keep lesser skilled players motivated so they keep playing and grow into high level starcraft 2 fans.
If they need to hide from their loss total then they probably dont have what it takes regardless. You have to lose A LOT to get better.
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On February 26 2011 10:26 oxxo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 10:25 raf3776 wrote:On February 26 2011 10:24 ribboo wrote:On February 26 2011 10:23 Frack wrote:
AMULET IS GONE omg if true ;O If thats true... that would be so dumb No it's not. Amulet is way too good when combined with warp in.
I think Amulet was the only thing making HT tech viable midgame. Very worried about this change... going to force colossus only??? Plus Protoss have no harass for the first 13 minutes of the game, and the only good harass they have in the late game is dark templar and high templar. High templar harass just got nerfed in a BIG way. Still Z and P can't touch Terran harass options early to late I guess. Doesn't make sense to me.
But I like the sounds of the fungal growth change though, at a glance. Can't wait to try it out. Less guaranteed kill with support (8 seconds was too long), but better damage against stalkers, marauders, etc.
Battlecruisers getting faster... but nothing for carrier interceptor longevity. Hmm, weird. I've seen enough games with BCs taking the win but almost none with carriers. I don't think BCs were ever bad... we'll see I suppose.
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On February 27 2011 04:24 freetgy wrote:get your facts straight, the Range of HT Spells is Inferior in both Range & Radius to Ghost Spells. if Terran gets feedbacked, blame yourself to not beeing able to micro properly.
Hey what do you know, you're right, my apologies. Ah well, point still stands; if you're not retarded and keep your HT's seperate then storms are going to land.
I didn't say anything about feedback though, who even uses feedback against ghosts? They're going to be in a bio army so you're wasting your time picking them out when storms would do better killing everything.
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- Units inside a bunker no longer disappear if the bunker is destroyed and surrounded by force fields.
So this is how MC does the 6gate attack....No wonder when I do it I fail, not enough forcefields =P.
Also I wish interceptor shots would become 1 attack so they are no longer useless against the terran capital ship =/
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On February 27 2011 04:28 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 03:37 beetlelisk wrote:On February 27 2011 03:28 The KY wrote:On February 27 2011 03:15 Mikelius wrote:On February 27 2011 03:14 Existor wrote:On February 27 2011 03:07 Zuxo wrote:
Ghost:Spawns with emp and 50 energy and can upgrade moebius reactor(+25 energy when spawns). Emp outrange feedback. Can cloak, snipe and nuke.
Templar: Spawns with feedback and 50 energy. Can get storm(200/200) but not amulet(+25 energy) and therefor has to wait 44 sec to storm.
Ghost>Templar (as before but now even more).
Mass colossi begin! Ghost - 150/150 cost Templar - 50/150 cost, so you can drop one zealot with him EMP = up to half the life of a protoss army Snipe (2x) = dead Zealot or HT Ghost = faster than Zealot Ghost = can shoot and does not depend exclusively on energy. Storm = up to 100% of the life of a terran army. Storm outranges EMP. I'm not saying that this (test region) balance change is good. What I do know though is that when a protoss goes colossi I'm like 'ok cool I can deal with this'. But when I see HT's it's a little more 'oh FUCK I'm so fucking dead'. Do you try to kill Ghosts with Storms or...? I don't understand O_o No I mean that unless you have a much better position (and tvp is, after all, a pretty positioning focused match up, 1 good arc can win the game) those storms are going down on your bio and EMP is damage limitation.
But you can send your Ghosts in before your army.
If there are any Colossi left you can send them in with Vikings.
If Stalkers are trying to catch those Ghosts then Ghosts can be sent in a bit before the rest bio so they can retreat (and they have 100HP). I think Protoss is more scared about thinking about engaging Marine Marauder (/w Concussive) then Terran is scarred of losing Ghosts to something like Stalkers.
And Ghosts' EMP outranges Feedback.
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On February 27 2011 03:41 TerraTron wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 03:15 Mikelius wrote:On February 27 2011 03:14 Existor wrote:On February 27 2011 03:07 Zuxo wrote:
Ghost:Spawns with emp and 50 energy and can upgrade moebius reactor(+25 energy when spawns). Emp outrange feedback. Can cloak, snipe and nuke.
Templar: Spawns with feedback and 50 energy. Can get storm(200/200) but not amulet(+25 energy) and therefor has to wait 44 sec to storm.
Ghost>Templar (as before but now even more).
Mass colossi begin! Ghost - 150/150 cost Templar - 50/150 cost, so you can drop one zealot with him EMP = up to half the life of a protoss army Snipe (2x) = dead Zealot or HT Ghost = faster than Zealot Ghost = can shoot and does not depend exclusively on energy. Pre-Nerf: Templar: ~2 secs build time (Warpgate), in 0 seconds has storm and feedback and spawns in power field. Ghost: 40 second build time for 75 energy + Travel time to location. Post-Nerf: Templar: ~2 secs build time (Warpgate), in 0 seconds has feedback and spawns in power field. Ghost: 40 second build time for 75 energy + Travel time to location. Taking into account that EMP can't actually kill an army (meaning the ability cannot reduce the enemy's total DPS output, contrary to storm), the nerf was needed. Nothing is more annoying then a few templar spawning after you win a battle and storming your bio ball into nothing. Not to mention they can STILL deny drops using feedback.
The thing is, you can't warp in/drop 4 zealots or stalkers for harass vs Z or T and actually come out ahead unless you are incredibly lucky. Terran can drop any combination of marines and marauders and do huge huge damage. Protoss has to have more expensive units to defend 1 or 2 medivac drops than vice versa. And if you happen to see the high templars before they storm, you can actually negate virtually ALL damage by moving all your workers away and sending one unit to attack the HT. Can't run away from stimmed bio, plus you'll lose your nexus anyway.
IMO feedback vs medivacs only works against low level players. You can always stim your bio right before loading to get energy down enough. You pretty much have to have phoenix and tons of observers to stop drops.
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Does the fungal growth still do the same damage over 4 seconds rather than 8? Or can they just not move for those 4 seconds but keep taking damage?
If they take the same damage over only 4 seconds it seems like you could wipe out an army faster without as much heal from medivacs (vs. terran)
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On February 26 2011 18:45 Aurious wrote:
Possible fix to HT.
Why not have two starting energy costs and keep the amulet. 67 energy start for a warp in after amulet and 75 with lowered build time with a regular gateway?
Because there would be no point. The warpgate cooldown on templar is 45sec whereas the build time of templar is 55 sec. During those 10sec surely they would have already accumlated enough energy to storm especially if you include that the gateways would be constantly switching back and forth between gateways and warpgates
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On February 27 2011 04:44 Kazuo wrote:
Does the fungal growth still do the same damage over 4 seconds rather than 8? Or can they just not move for those 4 seconds but keep taking damage?
If they take the same damage over only 4 seconds it seems like you could wipe out an army faster without as much heal from medivacs (vs. terran)
Same damage in half duration. Double the DPS essentially. It's really nice. :0)
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Why give infestors another useless spell (along with neural parasite)? yes fungal growth was good, but certainly not unstoppable. it forces an engage just like forcefield can, and force field is a MUCH better spell. really terrible change, imo.
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On February 27 2011 04:32 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 04:31 Artimo wrote:
I havent read this entire thread, so excuse me if this has already been answered but.
what could be the reason for:
" Loss counts are no longer displayed in Profile and Ladder pages for players below Master League."
i've been trying to wrap my brain around it but seriously cant find a good reason for it.
can anyone educate me? It's so the system is more encouraging and doesn't punish you as much. The idea it to help keep lesser skilled players motivated so they keep playing and grow into high level starcraft 2 fans.
I'm not in master's league (Platinum) but i definitely want to see my wins and my losses.
I can also see this backfiring to be honest since you can still see your point progress (or lack thereof) and im mostly thinking about those bronze leaguers who are winning games and not getting anywhere. im talking about those with a win/loss like 50-60 and only have 4 points. theyll feel like theyre winning about 50% of their games and still not get any meaningful points.
maybe im not seeing it right but thats just how i think about it atm.
EDIT: I see theres another topic about this so I will not continue this particular discussion here :D
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On February 27 2011 04:46 Gescom wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 04:44 Kazuo wrote:
Does the fungal growth still do the same damage over 4 seconds rather than 8? Or can they just not move for those 4 seconds but keep taking damage?
If they take the same damage over only 4 seconds it seems like you could wipe out an army faster without as much heal from medivacs (vs. terran) Same damage in half duration. Double the DPS essentially. It's really nice. :0)
Yeah it does more dmg faster but since it now fires a missile instead of being instant cast its a huge nerf imo, tested it ingame and stimmed bio and stalkers can dodge it.
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Any info on Season duration?
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If these go live and they don't buff zerg in some way only nerf it more I guess its time to race change for me. Zerg needs something to deal with colo/VR. Nerfing FG delay just makes MM rushes that much harder to deal with. Now they can stim and dodge the projectile and you miss and you lose because you can't delay their push and make units. Just one more way to insta-lose with a misclick or misscout as Z.
PvZ on the large maps is almost unwinnable if Toss gets up their economy and they can delay the game to that point with FF. Small maps you get bunker rushed from hell to breakfast. I play customs as T and P and roll people I lose 10 games in a row to as Zerg and I have played 20x the games as Zerg. lol
I just like zerg so much makes me sad. QQ Zerg is the lowest population on every server for a reason.
Instead of messing with the infestor that I don't think anyone thinks is OP why not make Ultralisks not so useless? lol
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On February 27 2011 04:54 Wormy wrote:
If these go live and they don't buff zerg in some way only nerf it more I guess its time to race change for me. Zerg needs something to deal with colo/VR. Nerfing FG delay just makes MM rushes that much harder to deal with. Now they can stim and dodge the projectile and you miss and you lose because you can't delay their push and make units.
I'm unsure as to how the projectile thing is going to work; it doesn't say it's dodgeable. Regardless I'd think if you have infestors out then MM is the least of your worries. Plus it now does +30% to armoured, i.e. marauders.
EDIT: ok someone says you can dodge it.
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Is PDD going to affect FG now?
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EPT
