EPTPatch 1.3 on PTR - Page 82
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cocosoft
Sweden1068 Posts
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vvJustice
30 Posts
On February 26 2011 21:33 Thezzy wrote: I pay 100/100 for the dropship, period, it costs resources whether or not I need it then and there. There are no units you don't pay for. I also pay 150/100 for the factory, 50/25 for the tech lab, 150/150 for blue flame, 200 minerals for the 2 hellions and another 150/100 for the starport. It is a significant commitment to get a Blue Flame Hellion drop. It is dedicated purely to killing probes, which for its given cost is obviously a lot better at than a Zealot drop, but if you Zealot drop me, I'll still have to respond to it and pull all my SCVs back. Also, don't box your probes if a Blue Flame Hellion drop occurs, just scatter them. 20 probes? Surely you warped in a few Stalkers the second you saw the drop coming? If I see the drop coming all I can do is order my units to move there and force my SCVs off the mineral line. When the hell did I say I had a problem with Blue Flame I am simply comparing what you said about Zealot drop to Blue Flame drop. LOL stop making these accusations about how I have trouble with certain intricacies. I feel like I have to explain every little thing to you. Of course if you hellion drop me I will warp-in units that's not the point I was trying to get across froham. Plus if you want to talk about how your economy will suffer you can just calldown mules lawlzzzzzz. | ||
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Thezzy
Netherlands2117 Posts
On February 26 2011 21:40 megainferno wrote: are you serious? instant 80 AoE damage wherever you wanted it. You'd have to be stupid enough to stay in the storm for the entire duration. Most storms only do 20-30 damage One single storm does 20-30 damage if I move out fast, even that is half the health of most Bio. But it is never a single storm, it is a whole bunch of storms and then you'll get your 80 (if not 80+) AoE damage. Couple that with all the Gateway or Colossi hitting the army and stuff dies fast. Everytime I have to move my army out of a storm, they aren't attacking, just taking damage from the stim, the storm and the Protoss army. | ||
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Cabinet Sanchez
Australia1097 Posts
On February 26 2011 21:43 Thezzy wrote: One single storm does 20-30 damage if I move out fast, even that is half the health of most Bio. But it is never a single storm, it is a whole bunch of storms and then you'll get your 80 (if not 80+) AoE damage. Couple that with all the Gateway or Colossi hitting the army and stuff dies fast. Everytime I have to move my army out of a storm, they aren't attacking, just taking damage from the stim, the storm and the Protoss army. Maybe the fact your army is mostly bio T1/T1.5 when ours is T3 is part of the problem in the first place? | ||
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dolpiff
France300 Posts
i hope it will mean we'll get to see them mighty cattlebruisers again :D | ||
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Velocity`
United Kingdom343 Posts
On February 26 2011 21:32 kasumimi wrote: Blizzard on Shakuras Platue removal: This is the reason Shakuras was removed for those who missed it. It clearly shows the insight the designers have for the game It is quite depressing, demoralizing and explains why the "new cool" shit maps made it through. Have they not watched the GSL games or something? How the fuck does Shakuras give only 'plain' games as they see it? | ||
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ckukner
Turkey54 Posts
On February 26 2011 21:33 Thezzy wrote: I pay 100/100 for the dropship, period, it costs resources whether or not I need it then and there. There are no units you don't pay for. I also pay 150/100 for the factory, 50/25 for the tech lab, 150/150 for blue flame, 200 minerals for the 2 hellions and another 150/100 for the starport. It is a significant commitment to get a Blue Flame Hellion drop. It is dedicated purely to killing probes, which for its given cost is obviously a lot better at than a Zealot drop, but if you Zealot drop me, I'll still have to respond to it and pull all my SCVs back. Also, don't box your probes if a Blue Flame Hellion drop occurs, just scatter them. 20 probes? Surely you warped in a few Stalkers the second you saw the drop coming? If I see the drop coming all I can do is order my units to move there and force my SCVs off the mineral line. As if though Protoss automaticly gets equipped with robo citadel and charge upgrade lulz again and again. When I get hellion dropped I just leave my drones mining, but a good terran will park its helions paralel to the mineral line so it can roast 5 drones at a time. If you kill only 1 drone each time you fire than you are not using the hellion correctly. And I am a zerg who've lost many games to BF hellion drops but non to a chargelot drop. | ||
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Thezzy
Netherlands2117 Posts
On February 26 2011 21:41 vvJustice wrote: When the hell did I say I had a problem with Blue Flame I am simply comparing what you said about Zealot drop to Blue Flame drop. LOL stop making these accusations about how I have trouble with certain intricacies. I feel like I have to explain every little thing to you. Of course if you hellion drop me I will warp-in units that's not the point I was trying to get across froham. Plus if you want to talk about how your economy will suffer you can just calldown mules lawlzzzzzz. Your inital comment made it sound like Terran can *just get* a Blue Flame Hellion drop as if its nothing when it is quite a resource commitment to make. Ofcourse a Zealot drop doesn't compare to the damage a Blue Flame Hellion drop can do, but a Zealot drop is a lot easier and cheaper to pull off and you can use the Warp Prism to warp in more stuff once the Zealots are dropped. The point I'm trying to make is that insta-warp-storms made it very very easy (too easy) for Protoss to defend the mineral line while vaporizing mine. You can still bring HTs in a Warp Prism and they'll generate enough energy along the way, but atleast I'll have a better chance at stopping it. | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
Opening for HTs and eating one bad EMP is even more game over now, since you can't warp in and fall back as effectively. Why give fungal a projectile but not EMP? | ||
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StarcraftMan
Canada507 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:20 Dommk wrote: The amulet change would be fine if Ghosts were also changed drastically to adjust, right now it is no contest, High Temps just got flipped upside down, going from having instant storms to having to wait 45seconds Ghosts don't do massive instant damage like HTs. Ghosts are used in PvsT as a defensive measure against HTs. No matter how you look at it, warp in instant storm is very imbalanced. Warping in 2 HTs can easily and instantly hold off any Protoss expos against any bio ground army - that's ridiculous. Protoss can already warp in units to defend expos but it's absurd when they can warp in 2 HTs to defend any expo on the map. | ||
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bgx
Poland6595 Posts
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decaf
Austria1797 Posts
On February 26 2011 21:17 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: Looks like a great patch especially in regards of observing. Sadly they still didn't buff Zerg the right way and Fungal Growth got better in some and worse in other cases. Though I like the direction with it. Having a 8 second disable is simply put lame. The time you can lock down units in place is too big... in most occasions. Though it's kinda necessary if you wanna deal with Drop Ships in case you go earlier Infestors. And while the removal of Amulette is huge, let's be honest. HTs are simply too strong PvT and PvZ late game. And I consider the Vortex and Viking Flower tweaks like a removal of glitch abuse. There was definitely no intention to have stuff work out like this, and just because people figured out a way to do this, this isn't immediately great for gameplay. Though I know a lot guys here are like everything player-discovered that can be abused is awesome and has to stay in the game... agreed. This is the best patch so far. Only thing missing is a corrutpor buff, then it'd be perfect. | ||
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
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vvJustice
30 Posts
On February 26 2011 21:48 Thezzy wrote: Your inital comment made it sound like Terran can *just get* a Blue Flame Hellion drop as if its nothing when it is quite a resource commitment to make. Ofcourse a Zealot drop doesn't compare to the damage a Blue Flame Hellion drop can do, but a Zealot drop is a lot easier and cheaper to pull off and you can use the Warp Prism to warp in more stuff once the Zealots are dropped. The point I'm trying to make is that insta-warp-storms made it very very easy (too easy) for Protoss to defend the mineral line while vaporizing mine. You can still bring HTs in a Warp Prism and they'll generate enough energy along the way, but atleast I'll have a better chance at stopping it. Warp Prism's aren't being used because Protoss has to pump out constant Colossus even if they go double robo it is still time taken away from Colossus or Immortal Production. Also I don't know how warp prisms got started here in this thread so don't aim that at me. Also Terran can just get Blue Flame just like how Protoss can just get Dark Templars or something ,you are acting like getting it will deter you from anything else you were planning on. Also the same logic of how you can "force" your SCV's off the mineral line can be applied to when you see me warping in HT and about to storm you lolzzzzzzz | ||
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Nycaloth
147 Posts
On February 26 2011 21:10 Airact wrote: This is purely a preferation matter. I play Zerg and I warmly welcome the new Infestor change. More variation in ZvT due to you actually being able to kill Marines under Medivacs makes Infestor/Ling stronger early-mid game. Also this opens much more variation in ZvZ. Infestor/Ling was viable before but now it will be stronger against Roach pushes due to Fungal actually doing something against them. Due to the missile, Mutalisks would be more viable in ZvZ also and I like that as well. Yay, less dull ZvZ Roach vs. Roach midgame anymore. Now let's hope it doesn't become Mutalisk wars because that can get dull as well. In my opinion the change would not change ZvP by much because Infestors weren't used much to begin with and they probably won't be used because of Protoss units having much more HP. For me the change increases the variation of styles and strategies I can use in ZvT/ZvZ and possibly even ZvP. Variation is good. I guess we have a different understanding of the game and units abilities/roles in general. I dont think that the infestors role is to deal damage, but rather to bind enemy units so that other units can deal damage to them, especially as far as blings vs bio and speedlings vs blink stalkers are concerned, or to stall an incoming attack. with a mere 4s root, this will be much harder. the projectile will probably be dodgeable by most units in the game, making FG a lot less reliable as a source of anything in general. personally, i would prefer an instahit 8s root without any damage over a projectile 4s root with little damage any day of the week as Z. in ZvZ, i dont see infestor/ling as a very potent answer to roaches in the mid game, it still takes 4 consecutive casts of FG to kill a roach. in order to substantially weaken then roach army, one will ne substantial amounts of infestors with enough energy. off the top of my head, i dont see a good way of getting a lot of upgraded infestors with energy saved up without crumbling to roach pressure in the early mid game. The same is true for mutalisks. IMO, the reason they see so little use in ZvZ is not the infestor, but rather that one will die to roach pressure shortly before or right as the mutas pop. | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On February 26 2011 21:52 StarcraftMan wrote: Ghosts don't do massive instant damage like HTs. Ghosts are used in PvsT as a defensive measure against HTs. No matter how you look at it, warp in instant storm is very imbalanced. Warping in 2 HTs can easily and instantly hold off any Protoss expos against any bio ground army - that's ridiculous. Protoss can already warp in units to defend expos but it's absurd when they can warp in 2 HTs to defend any expo on the map. You must be joking. | ||
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Markam
Poland71 Posts
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z0nk0
Belarus6 Posts
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dolpiff
France300 Posts
On February 26 2011 21:53 decaf wrote: agreed. This is the best patch so far. Only thing missing is a corrutpor buff, then it'd be perfect. read the notes again, there is a corruptor buff in there iirc (+ vs massive made into + vs armored) | ||
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TeWy
France714 Posts
On February 26 2011 21:52 StarcraftMan wrote: Ghosts don't do massive instant damage like HTs. Ghosts are used in PvsT as a defensive measure against HTs. No matter how you look at it, warp in instant storm is very imbalanced. Warping in 2 HTs can easily and instantly hold off any Protoss expos against any bio ground army - that's ridiculous. Protoss can already warp in units to defend expos but it's absurd when they can warp in 2 HTs to defend any expo on the map. The imbaness of HT were hiding the ridiculouslness of gateway units against stimmed marauders/marines... Hopefully Zealots would be a bit better now but I doubt it would do much against marines/marauders with medivac support.... Btw nerfing the only usefull spell of the Mothership got to be the biggest joke ever... If their intentions were to give to Protoss an absolutely useless unit, they did it successfully. I can't think of a reason why Protoss would now invest 400 gaz and infinite time+chronoboost in this gigantic ball which is unbelievably slow and does nothing really good. Blizzard short-sightdness is disappointing me on this one, they heard complain about colossi+vortex so they nerfed it, but didn't think forward at all. | ||
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