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On February 26 2011 21:16 vvJustice wrote:
Yea I'll just feedback your medivac while you drop a couple of blue flame hellions in my mineral line. Also yes Protoss lategame is still very powerful with all my colossus and chargelots while you can crank out 13 vikings to one shot my colossus. The HT's being used 99% of the time is also amusing. Are you serious or are you joking? I won't be mad I just have to know.
13 Vikings means the ground army is going to be a lot smaller and if the Terran is really going overboard with his Vikings, just tweak your unit composition accordingly.
Whenever Bio was a significant portion of the army (and with Mech being terrible against P except for Hellions that is almost always the case) the Storms were never far away.
And again, you can still use Storms! You just can't insta-warp them in anymore.
You'll just have to bring HTs with your army and have them generate the needed energy along on the way.
Storm is still fine and so were 75 energy HTs but warp-in 75 energy HTs were not.
I would've been fine with if Blizz found another way to remove warp-in storms but keep HTs at 75 energy but as it stands I'm fine with it for now, we'll have to see how it goes.
As for drops...
So I can drop Blue Flame Hellions in your mineral line?
What exactly is to prevent you from dropping Chargelots into mine?
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[QUOTE]On February 26 2011 21:24 Thezzy wrote:
[QUOTE]On February 26 2011 21:16 vvJustice wrote:
As for drops...
So I can drop Blue Flame Hellions in your mineral line?
What exactly is to prevent you from dropping Chargelots into mine?[/QUOTE]
And how much damage does blue flames do again?
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On February 26 2011 21:21 PraetorianX wrote:
I think we are all equally shocked by this patch. These changes are truly radical, the Amulet one in particular. The Terran nerfs were long overdue and probably not enough. As a Protoss player I do think, however, that the Amulet change could make it easier to go the HT route, especially in PvT.
Why? Well, because many Protoss players would get Amulet before Storm, and not warp in templars until both were done. They basically said warp-in storms or nothing. This made HT tech very slow to get, even if chrono-boosted.
Now you are forced to get storm immediately, and everyone will warp in templars ahead of time. This could make HT tech a bit more viable, maybe you can even get it before stimpack with its increased build time.
Listen to yourself "forcing players to do something, makes it more viable". Seriously... this is the kind of arguments we have aggainst the amulet. Haven't seen any good one so far.
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On February 26 2011 21:24 Thezzy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 21:16 vvJustice wrote:
Yea I'll just feedback your medivac while you drop a couple of blue flame hellions in my mineral line. Also yes Protoss lategame is still very powerful with all my colossus and chargelots while you can crank out 13 vikings to one shot my colossus. The HT's being used 99% of the time is also amusing. Are you serious or are you joking? I won't be mad I just have to know. 13 Vikings means the ground army is going to be a lot smaller and if the Terran is really going overboard with his Vikings, just tweak your unit composition accordingly. Whenever Bio was a significant portion of the army (and with Mech being terrible against P except for Hellions that is almost always the case) the Storms were never far away. And again, you can still use Storms! You just can't insta-warp them in anymore. You'll just have to bring HTs with your army and have them generate the needed energy along on the way. Storm is still fine and so were 75 energy HTs but warp-in 75 energy HTs were not. I would've been fine with if Blizz found another way to remove warp-in storms but keep HTs at 75 energy but as it stands I'm fine with it for now, we'll have to see how it goes. As for drops... So I can drop Blue Flame Hellions in your mineral line? What exactly is to prevent you from dropping Chargelots into mine?
Lulz did you really compare BF Hellions with chargelot drops.
First Medivac is a must have unit so you don't have to pay for the dropship. And 2 BF hellion can splash and kill like 20 probes in 10 seconds. How much damage do you think chargelots will do in 10 seconds
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Another batch of artificial fixes to compensate for the fact that the game is flawed on a fundamental level.
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On February 26 2011 21:21 PraetorianX wrote:
Why? Well, because many Protoss players would get Amulet before Storm, and not warp in templars until both were done. They basically said warp-in storms or nothing. This made HT tech very slow to get, even if chrono-boosted.
thats because HT don't do shit but bind ressources until you can Storm.
Feedback is useless since it doesn't deal effective dps.
As Protoss now you have to invest 150Gas into each HT that has no Battlevalue until it is 44s after the Warp in.
The ressources that you now bind in those HT your Enemy has in Fight Supply.
How are you gonna make the Balance of Warping in HT and Warping in Battleunit in critical situations?
You warp in HTs, but your but your opponent does a surprise attack? gg, not enough DPS to deal with the sheer power of your enemy if you didn't get Colossus before.
This will make Protoss HT Tech a gamble, and Colossus predicable.
Unlike HTs, Ghosts, Infestors don't build a Core Unit in Lategame since their ground army deals decent DPS. Protoss desperately needs AoE to survive.
Remember the Morrow vs. Nightend Game, where Nightend did a Techswitch to HTs?
this won't be effectivly possible at all with 1.3 PTR.
All in all it makes the "effectiv" build time of a HT Cooldown+Time to get Energy for 1 Storm which is way to much with now ~85s...
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- A new Control tab is available from the Options Menu. You'll find Mouse, Keyboard and Scrolling options within this new menu. = Can anybody get me a screenshot of this plz?
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Blizzard on Shakuras Platue removal:
This map we decided to remove for a different reason. There isn't a huge problem with this map, but we felt there aren't enough interesting features of this map. The natural expansion is easy to take and defend; there are only two possible attack paths only one of which is generally used, and main bases aren't easy to harass. For a change, we wanted to replace this relatively plain map with something new.
This is the reason Shakuras was removed for those who missed it. It clearly shows the insight the designers have for the game
It is quite depressing, demoralizing and explains why the "new cool" shit maps made it through.
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On February 26 2011 20:19 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 20:15 Cabinet Sanchez wrote:On February 26 2011 10:47 Mindcrime wrote:On February 26 2011 10:45 Noocta wrote:On February 26 2011 10:43 norlock wrote:
An alert has been added when MULEs expire.
An alert has been added when the Chrono Boost buff expires.
An alert has been added when the Spawn Larva buff expires.
Not fan of this one's? Why would they make the macro even easier, unawarenes should be punished not be reminded. I seriously feel this is needed for Zerg w/o being a stupid " make the game too easy ". no, it's not needed. I would rather Blizzard make chrono boost and MULEs as sensitive to timing as spawn larva. :/ Chronoboost and spawn larva punish both Protoss and Zerg when missed, MULE is the only one with absoloutely no punishment. - it needs a cooldown, even if it's 10 seconds. I suffer, so other needs to suffer as well - is this what you are trying to say? I think you should seek some help..
What a clever argument, thanks for the excellent detail in your response.
Maybe you should ask Artosis what he thinks about the mule?
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On February 26 2011 21:24 Thezzy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 21:16 vvJustice wrote:
Yea I'll just feedback your medivac while you drop a couple of blue flame hellions in my mineral line. Also yes Protoss lategame is still very powerful with all my colossus and chargelots while you can crank out 13 vikings to one shot my colossus. The HT's being used 99% of the time is also amusing. Are you serious or are you joking? I won't be mad I just have to know. 13 Vikings means the ground army is going to be a lot smaller and if the Terran is really going overboard with his Vikings, just tweak your unit composition accordingly. Whenever Bio was a significant portion of the army (and with Mech being terrible against P except for Hellions that is almost always the case) the Storms were never far away. And again, you can still use Storms! You just can't insta-warp them in anymore. You'll just have to bring HTs with your army and have them generate the needed energy along on the way. Storm is still fine and so were 75 energy HTs but warp-in 75 energy HTs were not. I would've been fine with if Blizz found another way to remove warp-in storms but keep HTs at 75 energy but as it stands I'm fine with it for now, we'll have to see how it goes. As for drops... So I can drop Blue Flame Hellions in your mineral line? What exactly is to prevent you from dropping Chargelots into mine?
If you actually thought that I literally meant 13 vikings you are wrong, it takes a little less than that. Also terran bio with high dps can mow down gateway units sooo fast. All of these solutions you are giving me seem so biased and vague. The strong point of the High Templar tech was that you can get storms right when you need them which is when you warp-in your HT. Now you must do it like a minute before hand. I am not complaining about waiting I'm just saying it takes a certain degree of viability from it. We will see once people get on the PTR more. How can you compare a zealot drop to a hellion drop? Hellions do splash while zealots just run around.
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On February 26 2011 21:28 ckukner wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 21:24 Thezzy wrote:On February 26 2011 21:16 vvJustice wrote:
Yea I'll just feedback your medivac while you drop a couple of blue flame hellions in my mineral line. Also yes Protoss lategame is still very powerful with all my colossus and chargelots while you can crank out 13 vikings to one shot my colossus. The HT's being used 99% of the time is also amusing. Are you serious or are you joking? I won't be mad I just have to know. 13 Vikings means the ground army is going to be a lot smaller and if the Terran is really going overboard with his Vikings, just tweak your unit composition accordingly. Whenever Bio was a significant portion of the army (and with Mech being terrible against P except for Hellions that is almost always the case) the Storms were never far away. And again, you can still use Storms! You just can't insta-warp them in anymore. You'll just have to bring HTs with your army and have them generate the needed energy along on the way. Storm is still fine and so were 75 energy HTs but warp-in 75 energy HTs were not. I would've been fine with if Blizz found another way to remove warp-in storms but keep HTs at 75 energy but as it stands I'm fine with it for now, we'll have to see how it goes. As for drops... So I can drop Blue Flame Hellions in your mineral line? What exactly is to prevent you from dropping Chargelots into mine? Lulz did you really compare BF Hellions with chargelot drops. First Medivac is a must have unit so you don't have to pay for the dropship. And 2 BF hellion can splash and kill like 20 probes in 10 seconds. How much damage do you think chargelots will do in 10 seconds
I pay 100/100 for the dropship, period, it costs resources whether or not I need it then and there.
There are no units you don't pay for.
I also pay 150/100 for the factory, 50/25 for the tech lab, 150/150 for blue flame, 200 minerals for the 2 hellions and another 150/100 for the starport. It is a significant commitment to get a Blue Flame Hellion drop. It is dedicated purely to killing probes, which for its given cost is obviously a lot better at than a Zealot drop, but if you Zealot drop me, I'll still have to respond to it and pull all my SCVs back.
Also, don't box your probes if a Blue Flame Hellion drop occurs, just scatter them.
20 probes? Surely you warped in a few Stalkers the second you saw the drop coming?
If I see the drop coming all I can do is order my units to move there and force my SCVs off the mineral line.
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On February 26 2011 21:07 sceroh wrote:
so you could put your own army in the vortex in order to get them invincible for 1.5 sec ? XD
They're still in a vortex though lol. But the fact that 200-food armies won't be *immediately* one-shotted anymore by a few archons or colossi will be in effect. Perhaps with some good forcefield control, you could still corral the exiting army and burn them with similar success, but that would take a lot more skill.
The high templar amulet nerf is going to kill the Protoss users though. How passive do they want us to be against Terran infantry? And we certainly don't need to focus more on colossi, right? High templar tech and upgrades are already so gas heavy, it's not like we can just pump out HTs and steamroll opponents with ease. I honestly don't see the justification. (And then we'll have two templar buildings with exactly one upgrade between the two! Woohoo!)
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Calm down guys it's called ptr. .
It's just a few changes to the public test server not a big deal, save yourself all the whining for when the real thing gets patched untilled then just chill out and relax and have fun.
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Well i think the changes are pretty good.
Late game TvP was really really hard, you couldnt harass due to the insta warp in storm, and even if you emp'ed everything he'd just warp in a few templars and storm your whole army to death.
However completely removing the upgrade might be going too far, only time will tell.
Also, to people complaining that now protoss are "forced" to go colossi, they were already doing that. About 80-90% of all PvTs the protoss went colossi. It was pretty rare that a protoss opened with templars, and if they did it was because of earlier DT harass.
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On February 26 2011 21:28 ckukner wrote:
First Medivac is a must have unit so you don't have to pay for the dropship. And 2 BF hellion can splash and kill like 20 probes in 10 seconds. How much damage do you think chargelots will do in 10 seconds
So instead of a forward pylon, just get a warp prism. Maybe warp prism should be a must have unit.
BF hellions kill 20 probes in 10 seconds because you always move them off the mineral line and bunch them up.
If players actually left their units mining, then the blue flames would actually kill less workers.
It really puzzles me why players would bunch up all their workers in a line.
4 chargelots would do some damage sure, but lets not talk about chargelots, lets talk about 2 HT's being dropped into the back of our base with full energy, you can then carpet storm the whole area, killing ALL svc's. previously you could then warp in more HT's and storm the army coming back to defend instantly, thankfully that has been made impossible now.
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agree with blizzard on Shakuras.
I also find XelNaga Caverns boring to watch.
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On February 26 2011 21:36 Deadlyfish wrote:
Well i think the changes are pretty good.
Late game TvP was really really hard, you couldnt harass due to the insta warp in storm, and even if you emp'ed everything he'd just warp in a few templars and storm your whole army to death.
However completely removing the upgrade might be going too far, only time will tell.
Also, to people complaining that now protoss are "forced" to go colossi, they were already doing that. About 80-90% of all PvTs the protoss went colossi. It was pretty rare that a protoss opened with templars, and if they did it was because of earlier DT harass.
i opened ht because i hate the colossus as a unit. wheres my .00001%?
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I don't understand why people think this new fungal change brings more micro to the game. All it does is give your opponent the option of dodging your spell. As the zerg player all you can do is anticipate where he is going and hope your opponent is retarded and just walks into it instead of changing direction ( or stays in one place ). From anyone versing a infestor user, it gives you a good chance to completely dodge the spell, for the infestor user it lowers the chance of the fungal actually landing at all significantly against a good player. Anticipate all you want, your opponent as ample time to see your "anticipation" and react to it, as if even getting the damn things in range before they spontaneously combusted was already difficult enough now against any decent player your almost never going to land anything.
For a viewer people are just going to be frustrated at how clumsy and stupid the infestor's fungal growth looks as the fungals repeatedly miss their targets. For any higher end player infestors will just stop being used if this patch goes live, as if they were already being used that much in the first place.
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On February 26 2011 21:08 Thezzy wrote:
Removal of warp-in storms is going to be interesting, it is very devastating and easy to pull off, instant 80 AoE damage whereever you wanted it.
are you serious? instant 80 AoE damage wherever you wanted it. You'd have to be stupid enough to stay in the storm for the entire duration. Most storms only do 20-30 damage
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I'm still convinced Terran controls the early game vs Zerg (infact damn well dominates the early game) and somewhat dictates, but not as bad for Protoss.
T has the most dynamic abilities, that's my biggest grudge. Not the numbers and stats, it's the abilities and features themselves, the race can simply 'do more stuff' - a lot more stuff and it makes them free to choose how things go.
Protoss for example now, are even more forced into a robotics bay :/ - really hope the 2 expansions we see some new units for P and Z to catch up to T's exceptional list of abilities.
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EPT
