Okay, so here's my take on the Amulet thing, I'm not versed in the much lauded "Archon Toilet" but did want to try it at some point. I'll do my best not to sound like I'm complaining. I for one love Templar, and I want to use them in my compositions more often. Discouraging players even further from building Templar, in my mind, stymies mid to late game strategy potential. I think most players are tired of using Colossus on a consistent basis and would like more avenues to explore, by removing the amulet upgrade it encourages players to be less diverse. I'd be more happy to see a large nerf to Colossus and a buff to HTs. To me, when it comes down to, a balance change like this isn't worth it. I don't care how well balanced this game could be, if it diminishes the creative nature of strategy and encourages a more sterile, uniform, play style, then the balance change isn't worth it. I want the game to be fun first and foremost, and this change certainly lessens that aspect for me as a player.

DarQraven

Netherlands553 Posts

February 26 2011 02:39 GMT

#503

On February 26 2011 11:21 lizzuma wrote:
A lot of you seem to be forgetting that these changes are not final.

I can't see them keeping Kaydarin Amulet out of the game. It's pretty ridiculous against bio, but then again, I don't really feel like bio should be played all game long against Protoss. Most of the time, against a top tier player you're eventually going to fail.

I don't think the bunker change is necessary. The first nerf was enough. It's already pretty hard to get them up against 4 gate/6 gate timing attacks and now you'll need to be prepared 5 seconds faster.

And let's face it, Archon/storm toilet was COMPLETELY broken. KiwiKaki demonstrated that to us perfectly against some zerg (can't remember who) on Metal. Glad to see the change there.

Re Amulet: Exactly. You read this thread and get the impression that barracks are the only buildings T have. Just to spell it out: most of the time you're going to see templar, Protoss has teched through warpgates->robo->robobay->twilight->archives. That's two full techtrees. If you're still on pure barracks with some vikings peppered in at that point, you have no one to blame but yourself.

If there is some kind of stalemate situation going on at that point, where you have a huge bio army that you can't use because P is too strong defensively - that is something that would warrant fixing. Either by adjusting T strategies to not commit too heavily to a 2base bio attack vs defensive Protoss, or by Blizzard messing with some timings. The Khaydarin removal just seems like a really weak way to fix a problem that is, essentially, with the Terran players.

--

About the other two changes, agree. Bunker's ability to be used offensively should be affected, not defensively. They were fine as defense. Besides, a build time increase won't change much, except for slightly raising the possibility of taking out marines before the bunker is finished. Like we needed more incentive to go 4gate.

axellerate

Canada179 Posts

February 26 2011 02:39 GMT

#504

These need to be reverted right now.

- Khaydarin Amulet upgrade (+25 starting energy) has been removed.
- An alert has been added when MULEs expire.
- An alert has been added when the Chrono Boost buff expires.
- An alert has been added when the Spawn Larva buff expires.

The alerts are removing skill from the game.

Protoss players will never again make HT's...

Ryuu314

United States12679 Posts

February 26 2011 02:39 GMT

#505

On February 26 2011 11:39 KonohaFlash wrote:

Show nested quote +

It's probably a bug as these changes aren't in the patch notes.

Yea that's my guess 'cause those are pretty big and unnecessary and arbitrary changes.

GinDo

3327 Posts

February 26 2011 02:40 GMT

#506

On February 26 2011 11:37 eNtitY~ wrote:
I'm not liking the Khaydarin Amulet removal and Viking flower removal... Not being able to stack units seems lame.

Staking is still their. You just cant do it with patrol.

vrok

Sweden2541 Posts

February 26 2011 02:40 GMT

#507

On February 26 2011 11:37 Temperance wrote:
Overseer cost increased.

[image loading]

Used to be 50 Minerals and 100 Gas to morph.

...........................................................WHAT?

101toss

3232 Posts

February 26 2011 02:40 GMT

#508

On February 26 2011 11:38 Dommk wrote:

Show nested quote +

Eh, it if the game goes on long enough with 4+ bases, you can easily spare 400/400 for the mothership. Most likely you will already have Templar tech (DT or HT), so grabbing a few Archons isn't a stretch.

Besides, I don't have so much an issue with nerfing out the archon toilet. The much bigger issue is letting your opponents get a free hit on you.

.Trex

73 Posts

February 26 2011 02:40 GMT

#509

Brood Lord up to 450/350

Overseer at 150/100

I think there is a bug, the price of the mutation became the price of the unit + the mutation, nothing on the baneling ?

underdawg

United States399 Posts

February 26 2011 02:40 GMT

#510

I don't get the viking flower removal lol. Did anyone complain about it? It was a cool little thing, with its uses at least in TvT, that could be pwned by a thor or something.

I like the BC speed buff, wonder if it makes them viable again.

ihavetofartosis

1277 Posts

February 26 2011 02:40 GMT

#511

On February 26 2011 11:37 Temperance wrote:
Overseer cost increased.

[image loading]

Used to be 50 Minerals and 100 Gas to morph.

Oh this is just great. Make zerg scouting even MORE expensive.

uSnAmplified

United States1029 Posts

February 26 2011 02:41 GMT

#512

On February 26 2011 11:39 Ryuu314 wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yea that's my guess 'cause those are pretty big and unnecessary and arbitrary changes.

It would not surprise me at all if blizzard just slid those under the table, they have stealth nerfed before.

ch33psh33p

7650 Posts

February 26 2011 02:41 GMT

#513

On February 26 2011 11:40 vrok wrote:

Show nested quote +

...........................................................WHAT?

Check the Broodlords. you'll shit yourself.

101toss

3232 Posts

February 26 2011 02:41 GMT

#514

On February 26 2011 11:40 vrok wrote:

Show nested quote +

...........................................................WHAT?

100 mins isn't game breaking.

Besides, zerg gets the loldetectionin17seconds anyways. Why complain?

MK4512

Canada938 Posts

February 26 2011 02:41 GMT

#515

Community
"Hey! Look, people are starting to use mothership! We totally knew the meta game was going to evolve!"

Blizzard
Nerf'd

...

EDIT: wtf! Spawn larva notifications?? That was the difference between a good zerg and a bad zerg... It's like forcefields for toss...

TBO

Germany1350 Posts

February 26 2011 02:41 GMT

#516

On February 26 2011 11:38 ch33psh33p wrote:
Why are we ignoring the two MEGA NERFS to zerg?

Brood Lord up to 450/350

Overseer at 150/100

WTF?

hm given that the broodlord change is "Old broodlord cost + corrupter cost" and Overseer is "Old Overseer + Overlord" and adding in that it isn't mentioned in the change log, I'd bet money on "its a bug"

GinDo

3327 Posts

February 26 2011 02:41 GMT

#517

On February 26 2011 11:39 axellerate wrote:
These need to be reverted right now.

- Khaydarin Amulet upgrade (+25 starting energy) has been removed.
- An alert has been added when MULEs expire.
- An alert has been added when the Chrono Boost buff expires.
- An alert has been added when the Spawn Larva buff expires.

The alerts are removing skill from the game.

Protoss players will never again make HT's...

Not really. Most people don;t constantly make workers and theirs an alert for that.

But the alert is pretty stupid.

101toss

3232 Posts

February 26 2011 02:41 GMT

#518

On February 26 2011 11:40 ihavetofartosis wrote:

Show nested quote +

Oh this is just great. Make zerg scouting even MORE expensive.

or just use a speed ovie and creep

Dommk

Australia4865 Posts

February 26 2011 02:42 GMT

#519

On February 26 2011 11:39 GinDo wrote:

Show nested quote +

Alot of Protoss' are spoiled. In BW they didn't have this Upgrade and storm was still scary. And dont argue damage. Units in BW didn't clump up as much.

It did more damage and had a much, much bigger AOE, if you landed two good storms then it was devastating, not to mention DT's and Templars were made from the same building AND units had shitty AI so running out of the Storm wasn't as easy as it is now

Jibba

United States22883 Posts

February 26 2011 02:42 GMT

#520

On February 26 2011 11:38 Raygun wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peczyb3csD8

My graphics card is buggy on the PTR, so there are some weird artifacts. You can see the projectile speed anyways.

Thank god, I think that's pretty reasonable. It's still a nerf, but at least it's fast enough that it won't effect 99% of people or 99% of situations.

The Overseer and Broodlord nerf is just mindblowing though.