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On March 02 2011 01:44 TimeSpiral wrote:
The removal of the Amulet & the Protoss late-game
(a) I'm not surprised that this thread is flooded with over-dramatic Protoss reactions to this ostensibly hefty nerf. But I am surprised at the lack of Protoss representation stating the obvious - "We already have the strongest late game army by a very long shot. Maybe this will help the other races contend in late game scenarios."
(b) Protoss players have become very "instant gratification" oriented. When they want something they can have it, anywhere they want (Warpgates). If they want something faster, they can have it twice as fast (C-boost). Now they cannot instantly proxy infinity storms anywhere on the map at any time during a match and they think the unit is now useless? Ha.
Ghosts take 40 seconds to train then have to walk into battle. Even with the Mobius Reactor it is impossible to get an EMP in less than 40 seconds.
To be honest, I find it hard to not call you names after point b), because your information is plain WRONG.
Anyway:
a) Some protoss, such as myself, would rather see a nerf to colossus, since we're tired of BEING FORCED to go that unit. (okay, this point is more preferences than anything)
b) High Templars don't have any attack. Once you cast your storm after warping it, it is pretty much useless. Sure, you have infinite storms if you have 150 gas to use to units that are more or less good for one use.
Also chronoboosting something all the way makes it take 2/3 of its regular time to build (that is not making things build twice as fast). As for the ghost thing: according to Liquipedia, HT take 55 seconds to build normally, and Warp Gates shave off 10 seconds to that. So building an HT makes that warpgate have a 45 seconds cooldown. In addition, it takes 5 seconds for ANY unit to warp-in, where it can be attacked.
Hell, the lowest Warp Gate cooldown is the Zealot's 28 seconds. Nowhere near "instant". Stop talking about warp gates if you don't understand how they work.
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On March 02 2011 01:01 diLLa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 00:24 ixi.genocide wrote:
The problem with waiting for your cost effective ultra/queen/bl/infester army is that you will die when the toss's obs sees that you have no dudes.... Even if you ar going for ultra/bling/ling/roach you will need to hinder your supply to make ultras and one of 2 scenarios play out 1) By the time the cavern is ready you won't have a big enough eco to support making 5 ultras because you rushed to ultras before you were able to be operating on 4 bases. 2) Your army is sitting at 160-170 food for too long and the toss can potentially overpower you.
One of the stilly things about zerg is that we need to have an army comp the entire game (obviously) and for the most part that comp is going to be roach based which is extremely supply inefficient (and has less range then the entire non-zealot toss army). Saying that gateway units are bad is rather silly, you use gateway units to bolster your army the entire game. they add a lot of dps and tank a lot of damage while your colossi rape. In contrast roaches are mediocre and become terrible when trapped by forcefields and hydras aren't even viable once your opponent has colossi out. Out of all of this nonsense the colossi is the common denominator.... if you bolster the protoss army in other ways and nerf the colossi so it isn't completely better than everything else toss has (and completely better than everything Z has too) then toss will be more compelled to use other unit combos.
Overall I would have like to see 2 units changed
Corrupter-
+2 range
Void ray-
Massive unit +2 range would be rediciolously imbalanced, it would exactly nerf colossus AND high templars into the ground within 2 patch.
With nerfing the colossi there would have to be testing to see if their is imba in favor of Z, if there is a buff to other units would be a suggestion. The colossi is so powerful that it limits the toss's comps. also, the temp nerf is a lot worse for pvt than pvz (obviously it affects the mu but not nearly as much). Arguing for arguments sake will not help this conversation, this involves ignoring obvious follow through.
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On March 02 2011 02:11 TimeSpiral wrote:
So far you're the only one to not just dismiss the case I made. Your argument is a strawman, for sure, but I get what you're trying to say.
I am not saying all races need to be the same. I'm saying this change makes it similar to how the other races function. Blizzard clearly perceives a problem with the Amulet, and have addressed it. My argument supports that decision.
So far no one is really addressing the points I brought up. Which is basically what I expected :/ but not what I hoped for.
Dude i agree with you that warp in storms are stupid and dumbs down the game, but dont you agree that high templars could use a movement speed buff if amulet is removed completley? the reason why amulet was almost a requirement when getting the templar is because you cant really use them offensivley unless you warp them in where they are needed, because it takes like 2 minutes for them to walk across the map and you need to keep your main army with them to protect them from getting sniped.
Sounds like a fair compromise dont you think? i mean without amulet i cant think of any sensible reason for why HTs should be slower than the other casters.
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On March 02 2011 02:18 ixi.genocide wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 01:01 diLLa wrote:On March 02 2011 00:24 ixi.genocide wrote:
The problem with waiting for your cost effective ultra/queen/bl/infester army is that you will die when the toss's obs sees that you have no dudes.... Even if you ar going for ultra/bling/ling/roach you will need to hinder your supply to make ultras and one of 2 scenarios play out 1) By the time the cavern is ready you won't have a big enough eco to support making 5 ultras because you rushed to ultras before you were able to be operating on 4 bases. 2) Your army is sitting at 160-170 food for too long and the toss can potentially overpower you.
One of the stilly things about zerg is that we need to have an army comp the entire game (obviously) and for the most part that comp is going to be roach based which is extremely supply inefficient (and has less range then the entire non-zealot toss army). Saying that gateway units are bad is rather silly, you use gateway units to bolster your army the entire game. they add a lot of dps and tank a lot of damage while your colossi rape. In contrast roaches are mediocre and become terrible when trapped by forcefields and hydras aren't even viable once your opponent has colossi out. Out of all of this nonsense the colossi is the common denominator.... if you bolster the protoss army in other ways and nerf the colossi so it isn't completely better than everything else toss has (and completely better than everything Z has too) then toss will be more compelled to use other unit combos.
Overall I would have like to see 2 units changed
Corrupter-
+2 range
Void ray-
Massive unit +2 range would be rediciolously imbalanced, it would exactly nerf colossus AND high templars into the ground within 2 patch. With nerfing the colossi there would have to be testing to see if their is imba in favor of Z, if there is a buff to other units would be a suggestion. The colossi is so powerful that it limits the toss's comps. also, the temp nerf is a lot worse for pvt than pvz (obviously it affects the mu but not nearly as much). Arguing for arguments sake will not help this conversation, this involves ignoring obvious follow through.
I think the best nerf for colossi would be to lower the hp. The problem right now is that it takes too long for their counters (corruptors, vikings, void rays etc) to actually counter them. I think a small nerf (50 hp or less reduction) would help out a lot.
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On March 02 2011 02:09 Lythox wrote:
You're a dumbass and a bad player if you don't see how proxy warping in with a cooldown after the unit is made or getting a unit from said producing building with a waiting for a "cooldown" (build time) first is different.
It doesn't matter much.
Unless you are maxed, your warpgates should always be on cooldown.
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On March 02 2011 01:49 freetgy wrote:
yeah but you disregard the fact that Warp in Storms is the longest Techtree in the game
it is not Protoss fault if Terran doesn't get Ghosts earlier, it is not like it is a useless slw unit without energy...unlike HT
Almost 110% positive that B-lords is a longer tech path by a fair margin.... maybe in the pvt MU it is the longest techtree in the game.
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On March 02 2011 02:20 dark fury wrote:
Dude i agree with you that warp in storms are stupid and dumbs down the game, but dont you agree that high templars could use a movement speed buff if amulet is removed completley? the reason why amulet was almost a requirement when getting the templar is because you cant really use them offensivley unless you warp them in where they are needed, because it takes like 2 minutes for them to walk across the map and you need to keep your main army with them to protect them from getting sniped.
Sounds like a fair compromise dont you think? i mean without amulet i cant think of any sensible reason for why HTs should be slower than the other casters.
Would love to hear some thoughts on this from smart terran players. Come on timespiral i wanna know what you think, dont be shy to post just because some butthurt protoss players flamed you 
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On March 02 2011 02:25 ixi.genocide wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 01:49 freetgy wrote:
yeah but you disregard the fact that Warp in Storms is the longest Techtree in the game
it is not Protoss fault if Terran doesn't get Ghosts earlier, it is not like it is a useless slw unit without energy...unlike HT
Almost 110% positive that B-lords is a longer tech path by a fair margin.... maybe in the pvt MU it is the longest techtree in the game.
if you rush for it, you can get Warp-In Storms by the 8 minute mark
ok Zergs T3 Units might take alittle longer with ~9 mins still doesn't change the fact that Warp-In Storms is one of the longest techtree (longer than any Terran Tech at least)
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On March 02 2011 02:15 Aerakin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 01:44 TimeSpiral wrote:
The removal of the Amulet & the Protoss late-game
(a) I'm not surprised that this thread is flooded with over-dramatic Protoss reactions to this ostensibly hefty nerf. But I am surprised at the lack of Protoss representation stating the obvious - "We already have the strongest late game army by a very long shot. Maybe this will help the other races contend in late game scenarios."
(b) Protoss players have become very "instant gratification" oriented. When they want something they can have it, anywhere they want (Warpgates). If they want something faster, they can have it twice as fast (C-boost). Now they cannot instantly proxy infinity storms anywhere on the map at any time during a match and they think the unit is now useless? Ha.
Ghosts take 40 seconds to train then have to walk into battle. Even with the Mobius Reactor it is impossible to get an EMP in less than 40 seconds.
To be honest, I find it hard to not call you names after point b), because your information is plain WRONG. Anyway: a) Some protoss, such as myself, would rather see a nerf to colossus, since we're tired of BEING FORCED to go that unit. (okay, this point is more preferences than anything) b) High Templars don't have any attack. Once you cast your storm after warping it, it is pretty much useless. Sure, you have infinite storms if you have 150 gas to use to units that are more or less good for one use. Also chronoboosting something all the way makes it take 2/3 of its regular time to build (that is not making things build twice as fast). As for the ghost thing: according to Liquipedia, HT take 55 seconds to build normally, and Warp Gates shave off 10 seconds to that. So building an HT makes that warpgate have a 45 seconds cooldown. In addition, it takes 5 seconds for ANY unit to warp-in, where it can be attacked.
Hell, the lowest Warp Gate cooldown is the Zealot's 28 seconds. Nowhere near "instant". Stop talking about warp gates if you don't understand how they work.
but if you're a mortal without psychic abilities, terran and zerg can't go "i need an X" and then have a bunch of them ready in 5 seconds. protoss have a varied 0-30+ seconds to evolve their unit production... zerg and terran need 30+ second notice at least.
you can't be 90% the way through producing a marauder and then change it to a ghost at the last second.
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On March 02 2011 02:31 freetgy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 02:25 ixi.genocide wrote:On March 02 2011 01:49 freetgy wrote:
yeah but you disregard the fact that Warp in Storms is the longest Techtree in the game
it is not Protoss fault if Terran doesn't get Ghosts earlier, it is not like it is a useless slw unit without energy...unlike HT
Almost 110% positive that B-lords is a longer tech path by a fair margin.... maybe in the pvt MU it is the longest techtree in the game. if you rush for it, you can get Warp-In Storms by the 8 minute mark ok Zergs T3 Units might take alittle longer with ~9 mins still doesn't change the fact that Warp-In Storms is one of the longest techtree (longer than any Terran Tech at least)
I agree that it is a long tech path to get storm but I have to mention some thing when you bring in rushing to a tech. Toss can go blink stalker aggression and get storms in the 10-11 minute with a good eco and army whereas Zerg doesn't even start hive tech until the 11 minute mark... idc too much about this argument since it is primarily semantics but trying to prove a point by taking a situation out of context is not helpful for the debate.
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On March 02 2011 01:44 TimeSpiral wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Continuing the Discussion
====================
PROTOSS BALANCE
The removal of the Amulet & the Protoss late-game
(a) I'm not surprised that this thread is flooded with over-dramatic Protoss reactions to this ostensibly hefty nerf. But I am surprised at the lack of Protoss representation stating the obvious - "We already have the strongest late game army by a very long shot. Maybe this will help the other races contend in late game scenarios."
(b) Protoss players have become very "instant gratification" oriented. When they want something they can have it, anywhere they want (Warpgates). If they want something faster, they can have it twice as fast (C-boost). Now they cannot instantly proxy infinity storms anywhere on the map at any time during a match and they think the unit is now useless? Ha.
Ghosts take 40 seconds to train then have to walk into battle. Even with the Mobius Reactor it is impossible to get an EMP in less than 40 seconds.
I cannot stress that point enough. Even with the mobius reactor, if you're not fighting in your main you have to wait 40 seconds for the unit to build then another 30 seconds for the unit to walk across the map. Zerg is in the same boat with the Infestor. The Raven is even worse in this regard.
The Amulet was removed because of Warpgate and Chronoboost. The Warpgate is front-loaded. Want an HT? Just warp it in. Now you want a Storm? Wait 40 seconds like everyone else. You already get the benefit of c-boost, front-loaded warpgates AND proxy ... You do not need the Amulet.
Conclusion
==========
Even with the respective upgrades both Terran and Zerg have to wait a bare minimum of 40 seconds to cast EMP or Fungal after ordering the respective caster unit. Protoss could literally order an HT (or several) anywhere on the map and Storm almost instantly (~3 seconds). It was wildly imba and that's why they removed it.
Even with the respective upgrades, both Zerg and Terran have to wait significantly longer than Protoss to cast Nueral Parasite or Hunter Seeker Missile. So, can we please end this farce that removing the Amulet is unfair or somehow gimps Protoss in any way?
I honestly think warped in units should start off with no shields. I mean, when a Terran builds a Marine, he has to wait 25 (in-game) seconds for the Marine to appear. Similarly, when a Zerg builds 2 Zerglings, they have to wait 24 seconds for those to pop. How fair is it, that Protoss can get their Zealot in 5 seconds, and basically anywhere on the map to boot? If they had no shields to begin with, the Protoss would at least have to wait a bit before engaging anything, which is only fair, right? This would also be a nerf to 4gate, which is good for the game also.
+ Show Spoiler +This is such a joke. :/ Just remove warpgate altogether, nerf Colossi, buff gateway units - and then Protoss might play like a normal, balanced race; without the bipolar "I'm really weak right now, but in 5 minutes I'm going to roll over your army 3 times with my maxed deathball".
For the record, I play Protoss, and the Colossus is the worst unit in the game.
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On March 02 2011 02:15 Aerakin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 01:44 TimeSpiral wrote:
The removal of the Amulet & the Protoss late-game
(a) I'm not surprised that this thread is flooded with over-dramatic Protoss reactions to this ostensibly hefty nerf. But I am surprised at the lack of Protoss representation stating the obvious - "We already have the strongest late game army by a very long shot. Maybe this will help the other races contend in late game scenarios."
(b) Protoss players have become very "instant gratification" oriented. When they want something they can have it, anywhere they want (Warpgates). If they want something faster, they can have it twice as fast (C-boost). Now they cannot instantly proxy infinity storms anywhere on the map at any time during a match and they think the unit is now useless? Ha.
Ghosts take 40 seconds to train then have to walk into battle. Even with the Mobius Reactor it is impossible to get an EMP in less than 40 seconds.
To be honest, I find it hard to not call you names after point b), because your information is plain WRONG. Anyway: a) Some protoss, such as myself, would rather see a nerf to colossus, since we're tired of BEING FORCED to go that unit. (okay, this point is more preferences than anything) b) High Templars don't have any attack. Once you cast your storm after warping it, it is pretty much useless. Sure, you have infinite storms if you have 150 gas to use to units that are more or less good for one use. Also chronoboosting something all the way makes it take 2/3 of its regular time to build (that is not making things build twice as fast). As for the ghost thing: according to Liquipedia, HT take 55 seconds to build normally, and Warp Gates shave off 10 seconds to that. So building an HT makes that warpgate have a 45 seconds cooldown. In addition, it takes 5 seconds for ANY unit to warp-in, where it can be attacked. Hell, the lowest Warp Gate cooldown is the Zealot's 28 seconds. Nowhere near "instant". Stop talking about warp gates if you don't understand how they work.
I'm actually a little surprised that so far no one has understood the difference between a Warpgate CD and ordering a unit from the Barracks. Ha. As it appears to be, I understand Warpgates better than you.
Warpgates are essentially a "Credit Card w/ free same day shipping", while the Barracks is a "Pay now w/ 3-day shipping standard" plan. I'm not even going to patronize you by explaining the difference. But please don't suggest that I don't understand when you are clearly missing the point being made.
As for your other point about Templars no having an attack and after they cast their spells being useless. Lol, really? As long as you have two templars (which come on, you do - for sure) after they cast their spells, or perform their function, you can create a freaking Archon. Well over 3x the hit points of a Ghost with a much more potent regular attack at a shorter range. So, if you're going to cite the Ghost's lol regular attack you MUST include the Archon option for your Templars.
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On March 02 2011 02:31 freetgy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 02:25 ixi.genocide wrote:On March 02 2011 01:49 freetgy wrote:
yeah but you disregard the fact that Warp in Storms is the longest Techtree in the game
it is not Protoss fault if Terran doesn't get Ghosts earlier, it is not like it is a useless slw unit without energy...unlike HT
Almost 110% positive that B-lords is a longer tech path by a fair margin.... maybe in the pvt MU it is the longest techtree in the game. if you rush for it, you can get Warp-In Storms by the 8 minute mark ok Zergs T3 Units might take alittle longer with ~9 mins still doesn't change the fact that Warp-In Storms is one of the longest techtree (longer than any Terran Tech at least)
65 + 80 + 50 + 100 + 100 + 34 for a broodlord assuming infinite money.
total cost:1275/1000 for 1 broodlod
which is 429. 7 minutes 9 seconds of solid building time, excluding anything you can do simultaeneously
Storm warp in: 25+65+50+50+50+80+5 assuming no money issues.
total cost: 1075/700 for 1 templar.
which is 320, or 5 minutes 25 seconds of solid building/research time, excluding anything you can do simultaenously.
time to get 1 templar with only starting workers: 320 seconds or 5 minutes, 20 seconds.
In other words you can actually get storm warped in 5 minutes 25 seconds every game, which i find hillarious actually now that i think about it.
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On March 02 2011 02:59 TimeSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 02:15 Aerakin wrote:On March 02 2011 01:44 TimeSpiral wrote:
The removal of the Amulet & the Protoss late-game
(a) I'm not surprised that this thread is flooded with over-dramatic Protoss reactions to this ostensibly hefty nerf. But I am surprised at the lack of Protoss representation stating the obvious - "We already have the strongest late game army by a very long shot. Maybe this will help the other races contend in late game scenarios."
(b) Protoss players have become very "instant gratification" oriented. When they want something they can have it, anywhere they want (Warpgates). If they want something faster, they can have it twice as fast (C-boost). Now they cannot instantly proxy infinity storms anywhere on the map at any time during a match and they think the unit is now useless? Ha.
Ghosts take 40 seconds to train then have to walk into battle. Even with the Mobius Reactor it is impossible to get an EMP in less than 40 seconds.
To be honest, I find it hard to not call you names after point b), because your information is plain WRONG. Anyway: a) Some protoss, such as myself, would rather see a nerf to colossus, since we're tired of BEING FORCED to go that unit. (okay, this point is more preferences than anything) b) High Templars don't have any attack. Once you cast your storm after warping it, it is pretty much useless. Sure, you have infinite storms if you have 150 gas to use to units that are more or less good for one use. Also chronoboosting something all the way makes it take 2/3 of its regular time to build (that is not making things build twice as fast). As for the ghost thing: according to Liquipedia, HT take 55 seconds to build normally, and Warp Gates shave off 10 seconds to that. So building an HT makes that warpgate have a 45 seconds cooldown. In addition, it takes 5 seconds for ANY unit to warp-in, where it can be attacked. Hell, the lowest Warp Gate cooldown is the Zealot's 28 seconds. Nowhere near "instant". Stop talking about warp gates if you don't understand how they work. I'm actually a little surprised that so far no one has understood the difference between a Warpgate CD and ordering a unit from the Barracks. Ha. As it appears to be, I understand Warpgates better than you. Warpgates are essentially a "Credit Card w/ free same day shipping", while the Barracks is a "Pay now w/ 3-day shipping standard" plan. I'm not even going to patronize you by explaining the difference. But please don't suggest that I don't understand when you are clearly missing the point being made. As for your other point about Templars no having an attack and after they cast their spells being useless. Lol, really? As long as you have two templars (which come on, you do - for sure) after they cast their spells, or perform their function, you can create a freaking Archon. Well over 3x the hit points of a Ghost with a much more potent regular attack at a shorter range. So, if you're going to cite the Ghost's lol regular attack you MUST include the Archon option for your Templars.
you should try using archons against a MMM ball and see how cost effective they are. (psst they are useless as anything but a meatshield)
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On March 02 2011 02:31 freetgy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 02:25 ixi.genocide wrote:On March 02 2011 01:49 freetgy wrote:
yeah but you disregard the fact that Warp in Storms is the longest Techtree in the game
it is not Protoss fault if Terran doesn't get Ghosts earlier, it is not like it is a useless slw unit without energy...unlike HT
Almost 110% positive that B-lords is a longer tech path by a fair margin.... maybe in the pvt MU it is the longest techtree in the game. if you rush for it, you can get Warp-In Storms by the 8 minute mark ok Zergs T3 Units might take alittle longer with ~9 mins still doesn't change the fact that Warp-In Storms is one of the longest techtree (longer than any Terran Tech at least)
Try 10 minutes. Zerg tier 3 takes literally 10 minutes to get to and have your first ultra or brood out. That is if you make nothing else. Plus it's something that you'd probably get to anyway, zerg tier 3 feels like you go out of your way to get to it then it doesn't even have that much of an impact on the game.
Regardless, storm is pretty ridiculous when you can warp them in on command and then get a sweet unit the tears up whatever is left.
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On March 02 2011 02:59 TimeSpiral wrote:
I'm actually a little surprised that so far no one has understood the difference between a Warpgate CD and ordering a unit from the Barracks. Ha. As it appears to be, I understand Warpgates better than you.
And I'm saying that you can't constantly instantly warp-in units. You guys some to be talking about a situation where your warp gates aren't on cool down, which only happen at 200/200.
You have anywhere from 45 to 0s (not counting the 5s warp-in) to wait until you get an unit from a warp gate.
I only wish that people stopped disregarding cooldowns like you do. You don't always end up in a situation where you have a warp gate that isn't in cooldown. Hell, maybe you just warped-in a whole bunch of units and you have to wait the whole cooldown to get your precious HT.
If you have the luxury of having a warp gate not producing units just so you can get an HT "instantly", you're doing something wrong.
And I'm sorry, but archons are bad. Kitted around by terran tier 1, and EMP happens to be super effective against them (not to mention the additional morphing time)
EDIT: I suppose archons aren't too bad against zerg, though
Warpgates are essentially a "Credit Card w/ free same day shipping", while the Barracks is a "Pay now w/ 3-day shipping standard" plan. I'm not even going to patronize you by explaining the difference. But please don't suggest that I don't understand when you are clearly missing the point being made.
Except that the store is only open 30 minutes a day and that you can't order at any other time.
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On March 02 2011 03:11 Aerakin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 02:59 TimeSpiral wrote:
I'm actually a little surprised that so far no one has understood the difference between a Warpgate CD and ordering a unit from the Barracks. Ha. As it appears to be, I understand Warpgates better than you. And I'm saying that you can't constantly instantly warp-in units. You guys some to be talking about a situation where your warp gates aren't on cool down, which only happen at 200/200. You have anywhere from 45 to 0s (not counting the 5s warp-in) to wait until you get an unit from a warp gate. I only wish that people stopped disregarding cooldowns like you do. You don't always end up in a situation where you have a warp gate that isn't in cooldown. Hell, maybe you just warped-in a whole bunch of units and you have to wait the whole cooldown to get your precious HT. If you have the luxury of having a warp gate not producing units just so you can get an HT "instantly", you're doing something wrong. And I'm sorry, but archons are bad. Kitted around by terran tier 1, and EMP happens to be super effective against them (not to mention the additional morphing time) EDIT: I suppose archons aren't too bad against zerg, though
saying protoss should always have warp gats on cooldown is like saying that zerg should never have any larva pooled. the best know when and where to pool warp cooldown and larva.
and EMP is less effective vs archons than vs stalkers. in fact EMP is LESS effective vs archons than zealots. zealots emp does 33% damage, stalkers it does 50% and archons it does a bit less than 28%
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On March 02 2011 03:14 PrinceXizor wrote:
saying protoss should always have warp gats on cooldown is like saying that zerg should never have any larva pooled. the best know when and where to pool warp cooldown and larva.
I can't think of a scenario where zerg doesn't want to spend his larva unless it's in a max army scenario or if they're waiting to build ultralisks.
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On March 02 2011 02:25 dark fury wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 02:20 dark fury wrote:
Dude i agree with you that warp in storms are stupid and dumbs down the game, but dont you agree that high templars could use a movement speed buff if amulet is removed completley? the reason why amulet was almost a requirement when getting the templar is because you cant really use them offensivley unless you warp them in where they are needed, because it takes like 2 minutes for them to walk across the map and you need to keep your main army with them to protect them from getting sniped.
Sounds like a fair compromise dont you think? i mean without amulet i cant think of any sensible reason for why HTs should be slower than the other casters. Would love to hear some thoughts on this from smart terran players. Come on timespiral i wanna know what you think, dont be shy to post just because some butthurt protoss players flamed you
Well, the Carrier and the Battlecruiser (if the buff goes through) have the same movement speed as the HT and they are still used for offensive attacks. The BC and Broodlord currently share the same movement speed (both slower than the carrier for some reason, lol)
If they remove the Amulet, and Protoss players do not start using their transport unit, I can definitely see Blizzard implementing a speed buff. But, since they essentially start the game with a spellcaster I'm not sure Blizzard will mind end-game tech units slowing down the overall speed of an Army.
CONCLUSION
=============
If the Amulet is removed I can agree to a speed buff for the HT. One of the ideas I had, which is admittedly worse than removing the Amulet, is to make HTs warp in around a power-field created by the Templar Archives only. But, that breaks the lore too much and would NEVER pass the inundation of Protoss QQ.
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On March 02 2011 03:19 TimeSpiral wrote:
CONCLUSION
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If the Amulet is removed I can agree to a speed buff for the HT. One of the ideas I had, which is admittedly worse than removing the Amulet, is to make HTs warp in around a power-field created by the Templar Archives only. But, that breaks the lore too much and would NEVER pass the inundation of Protoss QQ.
That's actually something that I can agree with.
Or as someone said in State of the Game, some kind of cooldown on storm, that is active upon warping in.
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EPT
