EPTmaybe ppl should watch idra how he manhandled the deathball
and how exactly was storm imbalanced in the tvp games? someone tell me
Patch 1.3 on PTR - Page 146
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Lucius22
172 Posts
maybe ppl should watch idra how he manhandled the deathball and how exactly was storm imbalanced in the tvp games? someone tell me | ||
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TimeSpiral
United States1010 Posts
==================== PROTOSS BALANCE The removal of the Amulet & the Protoss late-game (a) I'm not surprised that this thread is flooded with over-dramatic Protoss reactions to this ostensibly hefty nerf. But I am surprised at the lack of Protoss representation stating the obvious - "We already have the strongest late game army by a very long shot. Maybe this will help the other races contend in late game scenarios." (b) Protoss players have become very "instant gratification" oriented. When they want something they can have it, anywhere they want (Warpgates). If they want something faster, they can have it twice as fast (C-boost). Now they cannot instantly proxy infinity storms anywhere on the map at any time during a match and they think the unit is now useless? Ha. Ghosts take 40 seconds to train then have to walk into battle. Even with the Mobius Reactor it is impossible to get an EMP in less than 40 seconds. I cannot stress that point enough. Even with the mobius reactor, if you're not fighting in your main you have to wait 40 seconds for the unit to build then another 30 seconds for the unit to walk across the map. Zerg is in the same boat with the Infestor. The Raven is even worse in this regard. The Amulet was removed because of Warpgate and Chronoboost. The Warpgate is front-loaded. Want an HT? Just warp it in. Now you want a Storm? Wait 40 seconds like everyone else. You already get the benefit of c-boost, front-loaded warpgates AND proxy ... You do not need the Amulet. Conclusion ========== Even with the respective upgrades both Terran and Zerg have to wait a bare minimum of 40 seconds to cast EMP or Fungal after ordering the respective caster unit. Protoss could literally order an HT (or several) anywhere on the map and Storm almost instantly (~3 seconds). It was wildly imba and that's why they removed it. Even with the respective upgrades, both Zerg and Terran have to wait significantly longer than Protoss to cast Nueral Parasite or Hunter Seeker Missile. So, can we please end this farce that removing the Amulet is unfair or somehow gimps Protoss in any way? | ||
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freetgy
1720 Posts
it is not Protoss fault if Terran doesn't get Ghosts earlier, it is not like it is a useless slw unit without energy...unlike HT | ||
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dafnay
Angola375 Posts
On March 02 2011 01:44 TimeSpiral wrote: Continuing the Discussion ==================== PROTOSS BALANCE The removal of the Amulet & the Protoss late-game (a) I'm not surprised that this thread is flooded with over-dramatic Protoss reactions to this ostensibly hefty nerf. But I am surprised at the lack of Protoss representation stating the obvious - "We already have the strongest late game army by a very long shot. Maybe this will help the other races contend in late game scenarios." (b) Protoss players have become very "instant gratification" oriented. When they want something they can have it, anywhere they want (Warpgates). If they want something faster, they can have it twice as fast (C-boost). Now they cannot instantly proxy infinity storms anywhere on the map at any time during a match and they think the unit is now useless? Ha. Ghosts take 40 seconds to train then have to walk into battle. Even with the Mobius Reactor it is impossible to get an EMP in less than 40 seconds. I cannot stress that point enough. Even with the mobius reactor, if you're not fighting in your main you have to wait 40 seconds for the unit to build then another 30 seconds for the unit to walk across the map. Zerg is in the same boat with the Infestor. The Raven is even worse in this regard. The Amulet was removed because of Warpgate and Chronoboost. The Warpgate is front-loaded. Want an HT? Just warp it in. Now you want a Storm? Wait 40 seconds like everyone else. You already get the benefit of c-boost, front-loaded warpgates AND proxy ... You do not need the Amulet. Conclusion ========== Even with the respective upgrades both Terran and Zerg have to wait a bare minimum of 40 seconds to cast EMP or Fungal after ordering the respective caster unit. Protoss could literally order an HT (or several) anywhere on the map and Storm almost instantly (~3 seconds). It was wildly imba and that's why they removed it. Even with the respective upgrades, both Zerg and Terran have to wait significantly longer than Protoss to cast Nueral Parasite or Hunter Seeker Missile. So, can we please end this farce that removing the Amulet is unfair or somehow gimps Protoss in any way? That text of crap only deserves a "cool story bro" Btw youknow there is a cd on warpgate too , but you were too busy to qq that you didnt realise that User was warned for this post | ||
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TedJustice
Canada1324 Posts
(Not that feedback is useless mind you. If this change goes through, I have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot more feedback usage as well.) | ||
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TimeSpiral
United States1010 Posts
On March 02 2011 01:50 dafnay wrote: That text of crap only deserves a "cool story bro" Btw youknow there is a cd on warpgate too , but you were too busy to qq that you didnt realise that I thought I only deserved a "cool story bro?" Which you offered because you cannot contest the logic. Which is fine. And yes, I realize there is a front-loaded cool down on Warpgates. You understand what that means, right? I suppose the term "front-loaded" is slightly ambiguous. | ||
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dark fury
Sweden426 Posts
On March 02 2011 01:44 TimeSpiral wrote: Continuing the Discussion ==================== PROTOSS BALANCE The removal of the Amulet & the Protoss late-game (a) I'm not surprised that this thread is flooded with over-dramatic Protoss reactions to this ostensibly hefty nerf. But I am surprised at the lack of Protoss representation stating the obvious - "We already have the strongest late game army by a very long shot. Maybe this will help the other races contend in late game scenarios." (b) Protoss players have become very "instant gratification" oriented. When they want something they can have it, anywhere they want (Warpgates). If they want something faster, they can have it twice as fast (C-boost). Now they cannot instantly proxy infinity storms anywhere on the map at any time during a match and they think the unit is now useless? Ha. Ghosts take 40 seconds to train then have to walk into battle. Even with the Mobius Reactor it is impossible to get an EMP in less than 40 seconds. Ghosts can shoot, snipe, move at a decent speed and use cloak to stay alive until it has energy to EMP. The high templar is no more dangerous than a neutral critter until it has energy to cast a storm (feedback can be useful on some occasions but it hardly justifies the high cost of a HT if it dies before it can get a devent storm off. The biggest problem is that it is going to be almost impossible to use Templars offensivley now because if you warp them in before you move out, they will slow down your entire army massivley because they are soooo slow and you need to keep your army bulk with them to prevent them from getting picked off. Try to argue with these logics. | ||
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pzea469
United States1520 Posts
On March 02 2011 01:44 TimeSpiral wrote: Continuing the Discussion ==================== PROTOSS BALANCE The removal of the Amulet & the Protoss late-game (a) I'm not surprised that this thread is flooded with over-dramatic Protoss reactions to this ostensibly hefty nerf. But I am surprised at the lack of Protoss representation stating the obvious - "We already have the strongest late game army by a very long shot. Maybe this will help the other races contend in late game scenarios." (b) Protoss players have become very "instant gratification" oriented. When they want something they can have it, anywhere they want (Warpgates). If they want something faster, they can have it twice as fast (C-boost). Now they cannot instantly proxy infinity storms anywhere on the map at any time during a match and they think the unit is now useless? Ha. Ghosts take 40 seconds to train then have to walk into battle. Even with the Mobius Reactor it is impossible to get an EMP in less than 40 seconds. I cannot stress that point enough. Even with the mobius reactor, if you're not fighting in your main you have to wait 40 seconds for the unit to build then another 30 seconds for the unit to walk across the map. Zerg is in the same boat with the Infestor. The Raven is even worse in this regard. The Amulet was removed because of Warpgate and Chronoboost. The Warpgate is front-loaded. Want an HT? Just warp it in. Now you want a Storm? Wait 40 seconds like everyone else. You already get the benefit of c-boost, front-loaded warpgates AND proxy ... You do not need the Amulet. Conclusion ========== Even with the respective upgrades both Terran and Zerg have to wait a bare minimum of 40 seconds to cast EMP or Fungal after ordering the respective caster unit. Protoss could literally order an HT (or several) anywhere on the map and Storm almost instantly (~3 seconds). It was wildly imba and that's why they removed it. Even with the respective upgrades, both Zerg and Terran have to wait significantly longer than Protoss to cast Nueral Parasite or Hunter Seeker Missile. So, can we please end this farce that removing the Amulet is unfair or somehow gimps Protoss in any way? Im not really one way or another, but the way you argue this isn't too convincing. Basically, "terran and zerg don't get this, why should protoss?" How about, terrans get to just build cheap and efficient bunkers if they feel threatened and then get the money back, or they can just build their expo by their main first, or they can just get a PF and then attacking isn't an option until late game. See how that works? One simply can't argue this way, especially since the races are supposed to be diverse. | ||
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dark fury
Sweden426 Posts
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Lythox
Netherlands161 Posts
On March 02 2011 01:50 dafnay wrote: That text of crap only deserves a "cool story bro" Btw youknow there is a cd on warpgate too , but you were too busy to qq that you didnt realise that You're a dumbass and a bad player if you don't see how proxy warping in with a cooldown after the unit is made or getting a unit from said producing building with a waiting for a "cooldown" (build time) first is different. | ||
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QTIP.
United States2113 Posts
On March 02 2011 01:44 TimeSpiral wrote: Continuing the Discussion ==================== PROTOSS BALANCE The removal of the Amulet & the Protoss late-game (a) I'm not surprised that this thread is flooded with over-dramatic Protoss reactions to this ostensibly hefty nerf. But I am surprised at the lack of Protoss representation stating the obvious - "We already have the strongest late game army by a very long shot. Maybe this will help the other races contend in late game scenarios." (b) Protoss players have become very "instant gratification" oriented. When they want something they can have it, anywhere they want (Warpgates). If they want something faster, they can have it twice as fast (C-boost). Now they cannot instantly proxy infinity storms anywhere on the map at any time during a match and they think the unit is now useless? Ha. Ghosts take 40 seconds to train then have to walk into battle. Even with the Mobius Reactor it is impossible to get an EMP in less than 40 seconds. I cannot stress that point enough. Even with the mobius reactor, if you're not fighting in your main you have to wait 40 seconds for the unit to build then another 30 seconds for the unit to walk across the map. Zerg is in the same boat with the Infestor. The Raven is even worse in this regard. The Amulet was removed because of Warpgate and Chronoboost. The Warpgate is front-loaded. Want an HT? Just warp it in. Now you want a Storm? Wait 40 seconds like everyone else. You already get the benefit of c-boost, front-loaded warpgates AND proxy ... You do not need the Amulet. Conclusion ========== Even with the respective upgrades both Terran and Zerg have to wait a bare minimum of 40 seconds to cast EMP or Fungal after ordering the respective caster unit. Protoss could literally order an HT (or several) anywhere on the map and Storm almost instantly (~3 seconds). It was wildly imba and that's why they removed it. Even with the respective upgrades, both Zerg and Terran have to wait significantly longer than Protoss to cast Nueral Parasite or Hunter Seeker Missile. So, can we please end this farce that removing the Amulet is unfair or somehow gimps Protoss in any way? Epic qq here User was warned for this post | ||
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dark fury
Sweden426 Posts
That way, it would actually be possible to warp them in before moving out to attack. | ||
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maniac1122
United States111 Posts
Ever since beta, the game is getting easier and easier for zerg! (I mean, we needed it tho. Zerg was trash in beta) | ||
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TimeSpiral
United States1010 Posts
On March 02 2011 02:03 pzea469 wrote: Im not really one way or another, but the way you argue this isn't too convincing. Basically, "terran and zerg don't get this, why should protoss?" How about, terrans get to just build cheap and efficient bunkers if they feel threatened and then get the money back, or they can just build their expo by their main first, or they can just get a PF and then attacking isn't an option until late game. See how that works? One simply can't argue this way, especially since the races are supposed to be diverse. So far you're the only one to not just dismiss the case I made. Your argument is a strawman, for sure, but I get what you're trying to say. I am not saying all races need to be the same. I'm saying this change makes it similar to how the other races function. Blizzard clearly perceives a problem with the Amulet, and have addressed it. My argument supports that decision. So far no one is really addressing the points I brought up. Which is basically what I expected :/ but not what I hoped for. | ||
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Shiladie
Canada1631 Posts
On March 02 2011 01:16 holynorth wrote: Just wanted to point out that both Zerg and Terran work off the tier system. Barracks - Tier 1 Factory - Tier 2 Starport - Tier 3 Every additional building needed is +.5. So a ghost would be 1.5, thors would be 2.5, etc. Of course, The tier system in SC2 does not actual strength of the unit. This is a very flawed way of looking at it. Buildings required, not including supply depot/pylon/cc/hatch/nexus: 1: ling/marine/zealot/queen 1.5: marauder/reaper 2: helion/roach/baneling/overseer/stalker/sentry 2.5: tank 3: Hydra/infester/muta/corruptor/medivac/viking/phoenix/voidray/immortal 3.5: Thor/raven/banshee 4: Colossus/carrier/high templar/dark templar/mothership 4.5: Battlecruiser 5: Broodlord/ultralisk Keeping in mind all of the .5s after the 1.5 take 0 time to get if you're fast-teching due to addon-swapping. This is also an extremely flawed way of looking at it, non-zerg units really can't be divided into tiers the same way zerg units can be, also the races are different enough that the tiers are all fairly irrelevant anyways. Now, aside from that, I think the warning when spawn larva finishes will be an extremely helpful tool for zergs of all levels, but that's the only real 'buff' that zerg can claim to have from this. Fungal growth change will be interesting to see how it turns out, I can see both positives and negatives from this. it will make mutas slightly more viable in zvz over mass roach, though I don't know if it will be enough to see a change in the metagame. Mass marine balls I'll need to reserve judgement on, as they will take the damage faster, but be held in place for the zerg army to swarm in around them for less time. vs protoss, again I'll have to reserve judgement on whether it will be worth it to throw a few FGs in amongst the stalker ball, both to prevent blinking away, and to do the increased armour damage. | ||
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ixi.genocide
United States981 Posts
On March 01 2011 05:26 LegendaryZ wrote: It might actually make them useful for protecting your Brood Lords from being killed off by those insufferable Vikings. LOL (Seriously, I hate Vikings...) Just out of curiosity, what kind of Corruptor buff were you thinking and why do you feel that it's still needed when Protoss have one of their major tech trees nerfed? Would the reduced effectiveness of HT's in additional to the removal of the Archon toilet threat not affect ZvP balance a good deal already? While the issue of the Colossus ball of death would still exist, I would think it would leave Protoss bases much more vulnerable to harassment due to the lack of mobility of the Colossus and the inability to warp in instant storms like they currently can. Being forced to defend with pre-built HT's alone would change the game quite a bit... How does a HT nerf affect colossi/stalker/vr.... How does the archon toilet (a very rare exploit) affect the MU enought to not warrant a buff to corrupter. While I agree with blizz by doing smaller ammounts of buff/nerfs instead of huge changes but still. what is your logic behind this. | ||
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Torrent.bnet
Germany5 Posts
Yes warp ins Storms are strong, but Terran have a lot of instant kill-all-workers-strategies (Helion, Reapers, Banshees, drops) ... | ||
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Shiladie
Canada1631 Posts
On March 02 2011 01:49 freetgy wrote: yeah but you disregard the fact that Warp in Storms is the longest Techtree in the game it is not Protoss fault if Terran doesn't get Ghosts earlier, it is not like it is a useless slw unit without energy...unlike HT Wrong, ultralisks is the longest tech tree in the game. | ||
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canavarr
United States53 Posts
Leagues will now be locked during the final weeks of the season. As a result players will not accumulate additional bonus points and will not be promoted or demoted out of their current division during this period. Can someone please explain what was meant by "season"? When will "this season" (whatever that is) end? | ||
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Nashun
United States56 Posts
It's going to be a LOT harder to deal with bio now and it's going to stay that way until protoss gateway units are actually useful for something other than meatshields or until they at least give templar a bit of extra starting energy. | ||
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