Patch 1.3 on PTR - Page 143

On March 01 2011 05:17 eloist wrote:
It might just be me sucking but ghosts never completely negate templars in my games. I think people are very much overly simplifying this dynamic here.

Most always, the Protoss player will get at least 1-2 good storms off. A well placed EMP can remove further storms from those templars but by not EMPing the rest of the army, you haven't really dealt any damage yet while the storms did. And then of course more templars can be warped in close by to storm again while you might already be out of EMPs.

On March 01 2011 09:44 Apolo wrote:


Think with me. When the protoss is going to templar / has templar, most of the times he won't have many colossus, which are the main damage dealers to bio. And why:

if its early - mid game, he can't support those 2 heavy gas units, without having to sacrifice either by a lot, if it's late game and his planning on going templar tech, won't go 2 robo, so he won't have that many either, if any, if they survive to the vikings on earlier confrontations.

Now, with few or no colossus, gateway units won't be good damage dealers. As you know, stalkers and sentries are 2 of the units with worst dps in the game. Zealot is better, but since it's melee, and all T units are ranged and can easily kite, even with charge, a big part of them will die before they do anything. So the main damage dealer will be storms. Now i ask you how do you think it's fair when you say "Most always, the Protoss player will get at least 1-2 good storms off" as if it was a bad thing. I ask you then, how would the toss kill your army? Some people should think outside the box, and see things for the other race's perspective, not only their own. Even if you root for your race, you should root for a balanced game above all, that everyone can enjoy. If the game is balanced, more people will play and watch, and that can only be better for you as well.

On March 01 2011 09:51 Jimmeh wrote:


Then, please, take your own advice.

Your examples of gateway units being bad damage unit dealers are assuming a complete vacuum. Yes, stalkers and sentries don't do much DPS. Yes, zealots can be kited (even with charge!). Yes, ht may only get one or two storms off.

But, if you put it all together in an actual game. The protoss will use forcefields to block the bio so zealots CAN hit and storms WILL do damage since the bio can't retreat. Stalkers can pick off any other units as well.

You're acting like gateway units are TERRIBLE vs bio, which as players like MC have shown, is clearly not the case.

On March 01 2011 09:42 dryice135 wrote:
To all the people whinging about ghosts not getting a nerf need to think about the battle strengh of storm vs the battle strengh of emp. A few well placed storms can literally KILL an entire bio army completely. EMP can NOT kill a protos army, the maximum it can do is remove the entire army's shield which is vastly different to actually killing off the whole army

On March 01 2011 09:51 Jimmeh wrote:


Then, please, take your own advice.

Your examples of gateway units being bad damage unit dealers are assuming a complete vacuum. Yes, stalkers and sentries don't do much DPS. Yes, zealots can be kited (even with charge!). Yes, ht may only get one or two storms off.

But, if you put it all together in an actual game. The protoss will use forcefields to block the bio so zealots CAN hit and storms WILL do damage since the bio can't retreat. Stalkers can pick off any other units as well.

You're acting like gateway units are TERRIBLE vs bio, which as players like MC have shown, is clearly not the case.

On March 01 2011 10:04 Necro)Phagist( wrote:


So to sum up your post... Protoss requires, pro gamer micro or tier three units to beat tier 1 a move bio ball.... Yea that seems fair.... I understand Terran bio has to be strong due to lack of actual late game units. but still I mean when tier 3 units can be beaten by a moved tier 1-2 units something isn't right...
As for the ghosts not completely negating templar.. well with a well placed emp they can, but even if they couldn't look at the difference of the two and what they cost(Both mineral/gas and time required) Tier three extremely gas heavy, require two long upgrades to be effective unit really shouldn't be that easily countered... I know I'm biased as a protoss player, but come on is it that hard to see why Toss players are upset?

On March 01 2011 10:02 Zealot Lord wrote:


Eh, not really a good argument - if you land good EMP's on a toss army that is a gateway heavy mix w/templars, with no energy for forcefields/storms, the Toss is as good as dead if they have no amulet for reinforcements. This goes back to the main point most Toss players are unhappy with, its that this amulet removal pretty much restricts them to the collosus techpath, using the same units doing the same thing over and over again can just get very stale very quickly.

On March 01 2011 10:04 Necro)Phagist( wrote:


So to sum up your post... Protoss requires, pro gamer micro or tier three units to beat tier 1 a move bio ball.... Yea that seems fair.... I understand Terran bio has to be strong due to lack of actual late game units. but still I mean when tier 3 units can be beaten by a moved tier 1-2 units something isn't right...
As for the ghosts not completely negating templar.. well with a well placed emp they can, but even if they couldn't look at the difference of the two and what they cost(Both mineral/gas and time required) Tier three extremely gas heavy, require two long upgrades to be effective unit really shouldn't be that easily countered... I know I'm biased as a protoss player, but come on is it that hard to see why Toss players are upset?

On March 01 2011 10:31 dryice135 wrote:


An army without shields is far more useful than a dead army. Why? because a shieldless army can retreat whilst a dead army cannot retreat. If you are a strong player then you will realise that with a HT based army you need to be careful in how you poke around the map and how you engage in battles. If you overcommit to a battle and the terran pulls off some huge EMP's then yes you are dead. Which is why with a HT based army you should not overcommit to battles and always think about your retreat options if you do take an early EMP to the heart of your forces. Watch some high level games, there will be COUNTLESS times where you will see a HT poke forward and storm and then the toss retreats his forces, similarly, the terran pokes forward and EMPs and pulls back if it wasn't a good shot.

Your argument that protos is as good as dead if they take an EMP is not very well supported. Its all about how you engage in the battle and how you control your army. If you want to overcommit and 1 A, 2 A after you get hit by EMPs then yes you are dead but that was your own fault...

On March 01 2011 10:42 Aequos wrote:


I'm not sure if you realize this, but HT are some of the units you pretty much have to leave for dead when you retreat. Both Terran and Zerg units tend to be faster than gateway units, and HT are so slow that pretty much anything could catch them. If they were used in PvP, I could use sentries to chase them down. As such, being EMPed and losing my energy on HTs means that I will lose those HT if I run, whether I just attempt to flee or morph them to Archons in an attempt to buy time for the rest of my army. If you only hit 2 templar, you've already payed back the gas cost of the ghosts used to EMP.

Assuming I throw forward a single HT to storm the Terran army, like was suggested, the damage is still not permanent. Like an EMP on the Protoss army, none of the damage will last beyond repair time or auto-heal time. Does it drain energy/funds? Yes, but hitting one of my HTs with the same move with a ghost renders it useless.

I'm not saying that its impossible to retreat, its just much, much more difficult than it seems.

On March 01 2011 10:46 diLLa wrote:
medivac tier 3? thats a good one.

I'm a protoss myself, and although i forsee major problems dealing with endgame stuff i guess ill just have to wait and experience it myself before actually whining about it.

On March 01 2011 09:20 Ratel wrote:

i agree that you need much better multitasking as a zerg however it pays off with
the advantages that the race offers -you have way better macro potential than any other race
your units are the most cost efficient and cheapest in the game - also the most mobile
p.s. assembly

On March 01 2011 10:44 Doodsmack wrote:
I can't wait until the nerf goes through and people are still using HTs, so all the exaggerations on here can be proven wrong.